If media deals and GoRs are no longer valid, I would think we'd end up with 4 "power" conferences. A big money conference along with a western-ish-based conference, northern-ish-based conference, and a southern-ish-based conference.

I think we end up with a 24-school CAC (Central Athletic Conference) along with 3 16-school conferences: ACC, PAC, and METRO.

CAC
North: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Virginia Tech
West: Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St
South: Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Florida St, South Carolina, Clemson

ACC
West: Kansas, Missouri, Iowa St, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Kentucky
East: Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke

PAC
West: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, California, Stanford, USC, UCLA
East: Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, TCU

METRO
West: SMU, Baylor, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Vanderbilt, Louisville, Cincinnati
East: Temple, West Virginia, North Carolina St, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Central Florida, South Florida, Miami

IND: Notre Dame, BYU

(05-01-2020 02:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-01-2020 12:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-30-2020 11:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  If all contracts and GoRs were truly null and void, including the CFP contract, the more I study this the more it seems to me that the SEC holds all the cards. The B1G can offer money (for now), but not much else. And if they were to expand, it would be at the cost of diluting per school share with little to no benefit on the field.

With that in mind, and with the ACC now fully in play, I would suggest that the SEC go big. I'm talking mega big. Throw your weight around big.

This would be my new SEC (in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating):

East: Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, NC State, Kentucky and Vanderbilt.

West: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Florida State, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Ole Miss and Arkansas.

I wouldn't just stage a CCG, or even a four team championship tournament. I'd have an eight team playoff (there are surely enough great teams here to pull that off). First round pairings in Week 15 are (with the higher seeded team hosting):

West #4 @ East #1
West #3 @ East #2
East #3 @ West #2
East #4 @ West #1

Semis are the following week, and the Conference final is played at the Sugar Bowl on New Year's Day.

The B1G and the PAC determine their champs however they choose, and the two champions meet in the Rose Bowl on New Year's Day.

The ACC, which has now lost four members, adds West Virginia and Cincinnati, and divides as follows:

North: West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, Boston College and Syracuse
South: Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Wake Forest

The ACC champion Hosts the Orange Bowl against an at-large team.

The Big XII has lost 3 members. They backfill with four teams from the AAC and BYU (football only). They divide as follows:

Northwest: Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Texas Tech, BYU, Iowa St and Kansas
Southeast: TCU, Baylor, UCF, Houston, Memphis, and USF

Their champion hosts the Fiesta Bowl.

The six remaining teams in the NY6 are the highest ranked teams not already in the field. The higher ranking of the ACC and Big XII champs hosts the highest ranked at large team, while the lower ranked champ hosts the second highest ranked at large. The rankings are determined by a composite of the AP and Coaches' polls plus the Massey, Sagarin and BPI rankings.

At the completion of the NY6, the two highest ranked bowl winners play the following week for the National Championship.

To complete the realignment, the AAC takes Marshall and Rice from CUSA (leaving them with 12) and Appalachian State from the Belt, leaving them with 9 FB members (11 overall). This gives Navy an annual game against schools from both Dallas and Houston, takes Marshall off an island within CUSA and gives ECU an in-state rival.

The MWC, MAC, PAC and B1G remain just as they are, and Notre Dame remains independent with a path to a national championship.

Finis!

Given the parameters this is a fairly logical outcome. As I see it the reasoning behind what you suggest would be as follows:

1. Football culturally is the strongest in the South. Being a major football school clustered with other major football schools would create the massive economic synergy you describe. That alone would be extremely difficult to pass up.

2. The new ACC that is formed would be a lot more cohesive in their sense of athletic mission than the one that currently exists, although I think it is quite possible that Vanderbilt would prefer it to what the SEC would become. I also think it quite possible that Kentucky might well prefer to compete more at the level of the remaining ACC as well. Both Vanderbilt and Kentucky could accomplish more athletically by making such a move.

3. I disagree about the 30 million dollar gap in media revenue. It's going to be near 30 million by 2024 as things currently stand contractually. So using that as a measuring stick with the additions of Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Florida State from a content multiplier standpoint and N.C. State and Virginia Tech from a market standpoint, the revenue gap might be as much as 40 million versus the other PAC and ACC schools and the Big 12 remnant. I think the gap with the Big 10 could be in the 12-15 million dollar range.

4. I also think that with that kind of money at stake what you might see is all conferences agree to hold football associations separate from all other athletic associations.

If so you could take the SEC as you have it comported sans Vanderbilt and Kentucky and add the following:

Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska from the Big 10.

Southern California, Stanford, U.C.L.A, Washington, Oregon, Utah, Arizona, and Arizona State from the PAC.

And Brigham Young and Notre Dame as independents

Now with the remaining 18 schools you have listed with the SEC sans Vanderbilt and perhaps Kentucky you have 36 schools that form an upper tier of football separate from all other college sports affiliations.

5. So my thinking here Ken D is that it might be easier to keep all conferences aligned as they currently are for all other sports and to separate football from any conference arrangement as it presently exists and to let the top 36 football worshiping media darlings to give the corporate networks what they want most, a super conference of 36 schools which for football only would act as a single unit contractually.

This way those 36 could max out their media revenues without directly impacting all other sports, including basketball. Let their boosters pour money into the talent pool (which nationally is shrinking in football) and keep their favorite sports alive without serious competition from the rest of the FBS and FCS. Then all other sports would find their contracts for media revenue remained within a competitively positioned distance of one another.

Basketball and Baseball would become the sports in which all schools competed with what by comparison to football would be a reasonable equality.

It simply seems to me that football would be healthier if it had a super division sans conference affiliation and that all other sports were handled roughly as they are currently and that for those schools participating in the super division in football those funds were held distinct (and quite possibly taxable) and the governance separate from all other sports which would remain under the current athletic department structure.

That way no university would have to suffer major disruptions across all currently offered athletics nor have to worry about what was taxable with regard to those sports and those sports only would be subject to title IX and supported by athletic scholarships fundamentally.

The 36 schools competing in the super division of football would have separate administration to handle the licensing, image, ,pay of, and contractual obligations (not scholarships) of their players.

Separate those 36 football programs from the rest of the NCAA and it creates the fewest waves for everyone involved.

It is football revenue that is driving wedges in-between long standing relationships of the schools. Before football revenue is done bringing these changes if we do not fundamentally hold football separate from all other sports it will eventually cause disruptions even within the current Big 10 and SEC as haves see opportunities to have more without their have nots. Separate it from the rest of college athletics (among those operating at the highest tier of compensation) and you save the rest of college athletics and along with it older academic associations as the need for realignment (a tumor within the university world) is removed from the academic body.

If that's is indeed what you are looking for, then the task is indeed simple.

One take the 14 schools of the SEC and the 14 schools of the ACC and add the four Texas schools to get a total of 32 (we will assume as you have noted that Notre Dame will remain a partial with this group).
Take the remaining 32 schools of the Big 12, B1G and PAC to divide into a total of 32 and add BYU as a partial.
Then it's just a matter of dividing the 32s into groups of 16.

ESPN
Football group:
Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, LSU, Arkansas, Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Florida State, Florida, Miami, Georgia, Clemson, Tennessee, NC State, Virginia Tech

Other group:
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Kentucky, Louisville, UVa, Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, South Carolina, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Ole Miss, Baylor, TCU

Partial: Notre Dame

FOX
football group:
Washington, Oregon, UCLA, USC, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado, West Virginia

other group:
Washington State, Oregon State, California, Stanford, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa State, Kansas State, Kansas

Partial: BYU

If Notre Dame is not joining a conference but rather a rights collective bargaining group there is no need to treat them as a partial.

What there is a need of with what you suggest is a balancing by division of relative football strength as much as is geographically reasonable to do.

And in a collective bargaining position Vanderbilt, B.C., Wake, Oregon State, and Washington State bring down the aggregate way too much to be included.

The whole purpose of treating football differently is to allow it to function as a business where the maximization of profit is to be expected. The reason for including 56 or 60 schools is to have some bell curve on wins and losses.

(05-01-2020 03:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-01-2020 02:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-01-2020 12:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-30-2020 11:52 AM)ken d Wrote:  If all contracts and GoRs were truly null and void, including the CFP contract, the more I study this the more it seems to me that the SEC holds all the cards. The B1G can offer money (for now), but not much else. And if they were to expand, it would be at the cost of diluting per school share with little to no benefit on the field.

With that in mind, and with the ACC now fully in play, I would suggest that the SEC go big. I'm talking mega big. Throw your weight around big.

This would be my new SEC (in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating):

East: Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Tennessee, NC State, Kentucky and Vanderbilt.

West: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Florida State, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Ole Miss and Arkansas.

I wouldn't just stage a CCG, or even a four team championship tournament. I'd have an eight team playoff (there are surely enough great teams here to pull that off). First round pairings in Week 15 are (with the higher seeded team hosting):

West #4 @ East #1
West #3 @ East #2
East #3 @ West #2
East #4 @ West #1

Semis are the following week, and the Conference final is played at the Sugar Bowl on New Year's Day.

The B1G and the PAC determine their champs however they choose, and the two champions meet in the Rose Bowl on New Year's Day.

The ACC, which has now lost four members, adds West Virginia and Cincinnati, and divides as follows:

North: West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, Boston College and Syracuse
South: Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Wake Forest

The ACC champion Hosts the Orange Bowl against an at-large team.

The Big XII has lost 3 members. They backfill with four teams from the AAC and BYU (football only). They divide as follows:

Northwest: Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Texas Tech, BYU, Iowa St and Kansas
Southeast: TCU, Baylor, UCF, Houston, Memphis, and USF

Their champion hosts the Fiesta Bowl.

The six remaining teams in the NY6 are the highest ranked teams not already in the field. The higher ranking of the ACC and Big XII champs hosts the highest ranked at large team, while the lower ranked champ hosts the second highest ranked at large. The rankings are determined by a composite of the AP and Coaches' polls plus the Massey, Sagarin and BPI rankings.

At the completion of the NY6, the two highest ranked bowl winners play the following week for the National Championship.

To complete the realignment, the AAC takes Marshall and Rice from CUSA (leaving them with 12) and Appalachian State from the Belt, leaving them with 9 FB members (11 overall). This gives Navy an annual game against schools from both Dallas and Houston, takes Marshall off an island within CUSA and gives ECU an in-state rival.

The MWC, MAC, PAC and B1G remain just as they are, and Notre Dame remains independent with a path to a national championship.

Finis!

Given the parameters this is a fairly logical outcome. As I see it the reasoning behind what you suggest would be as follows:

1. Football culturally is the strongest in the South. Being a major football school clustered with other major football schools would create the massive economic synergy you describe. That alone would be extremely difficult to pass up.

2. The new ACC that is formed would be a lot more cohesive in their sense of athletic mission than the one that currently exists, although I think it is quite possible that Vanderbilt would prefer it to what the SEC would become. I also think it quite possible that Kentucky might well prefer to compete more at the level of the remaining ACC as well. Both Vanderbilt and Kentucky could accomplish more athletically by making such a move.

3. I disagree about the 30 million dollar gap in media revenue. It's going to be near 30 million by 2024 as things currently stand contractually. So using that as a measuring stick with the additions of Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Florida State from a content multiplier standpoint and N.C. State and Virginia Tech from a market standpoint, the revenue gap might be as much as 40 million versus the other PAC and ACC schools and the Big 12 remnant. I think the gap with the Big 10 could be in the 12-15 million dollar range.

4. I also think that with that kind of money at stake what you might see is all conferences agree to hold football associations separate from all other athletic associations.

If so you could take the SEC as you have it comported sans Vanderbilt and Kentucky and add the following:

Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska from the Big 10.

Southern California, Stanford, U.C.L.A, Washington, Oregon, Utah, Arizona, and Arizona State from the PAC.

And Brigham Young and Notre Dame as independents

Now with the remaining 18 schools you have listed with the SEC sans Vanderbilt and perhaps Kentucky you have 36 schools that form an upper tier of football separate from all other college sports affiliations.

5. So my thinking here Ken D is that it might be easier to keep all conferences aligned as they currently are for all other sports and to separate football from any conference arrangement as it presently exists and to let the top 36 football worshiping media darlings to give the corporate networks what they want most, a super conference of 36 schools which for football only would act as a single unit contractually.

This way those 36 could max out their media revenues without directly impacting all other sports, including basketball. Let their boosters pour money into the talent pool (which nationally is shrinking in football) and keep their favorite sports alive without serious competition from the rest of the FBS and FCS. Then all other sports would find their contracts for media revenue remained within a competitively positioned distance of one another.

Basketball and Baseball would become the sports in which all schools competed with what by comparison to football would be a reasonable equality.

It simply seems to me that football would be healthier if it had a super division sans conference affiliation and that all other sports were handled roughly as they are currently and that for those schools participating in the super division in football those funds were held distinct (and quite possibly taxable) and the governance separate from all other sports which would remain under the current athletic department structure.

That way no university would have to suffer major disruptions across all currently offered athletics nor have to worry about what was taxable with regard to those sports and those sports only would be subject to title IX and supported by athletic scholarships fundamentally.

The 36 schools competing in the super division of football would have separate administration to handle the licensing, image, ,pay of, and contractual obligations (not scholarships) of their players.

Separate those 36 football programs from the rest of the NCAA and it creates the fewest waves for everyone involved.

It is football revenue that is driving wedges in-between long standing relationships of the schools. Before football revenue is done bringing these changes if we do not fundamentally hold football separate from all other sports it will eventually cause disruptions even within the current Big 10 and SEC as haves see opportunities to have more without their have nots. Separate it from the rest of college athletics (among those operating at the highest tier of compensation) and you save the rest of college athletics and along with it older academic associations as the need for realignment (a tumor within the university world) is removed from the academic body.

If that's is indeed what you are looking for, then the task is indeed simple.

One take the 14 schools of the SEC and the 14 schools of the ACC and add the four Texas schools to get a total of 32 (we will assume as you have noted that Notre Dame will remain a partial with this group).
Take the remaining 32 schools of the Big 12, B1G and PAC to divide into a total of 32 and add BYU as a partial.
Then it's just a matter of dividing the 32s into groups of 16.

ESPN
Football group:
Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, LSU, Arkansas, Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Florida State, Florida, Miami, Georgia, Clemson, Tennessee, NC State, Virginia Tech

Other group:
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Kentucky, Louisville, UVa, Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, South Carolina, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Ole Miss, Baylor, TCU

Partial: Notre Dame

FOX
football group:
Washington, Oregon, UCLA, USC, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado, West Virginia

other group:
Washington State, Oregon State, California, Stanford, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State, Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa State, Kansas State, Kansas

Partial: BYU

If Notre Dame is not joining a conference but rather a rights collective bargaining group there is no need to treat them as a partial.

What there is a need of with what you suggest is a balancing by division of relative football strength as much as is geographically reasonable to do.

And in a collective bargaining position Vanderbilt, B.C., Wake, Oregon State, and Washington State bring down the aggregate way too much to be included.

The whole purpose of treating football differently is to allow it to function as a business where the maximization of profit is to be expected. The reason for including 56 or 60 schools is to have some bell curve on wins and losses.

If this is the purpose, to function solely as a business, then I would follow a professional team.
Without the rah-rah factor collegiate athletics will cease to exist as sport.

If, somehow, it were not necessary to include all B1G and SEC teams in the highest tier for football, it opens up all sorts of arrangements that take geography into greater account than is now the case.

I would now have a North/West Conference that consists of nine current PAC teams and nine B1G teams:

B1G: Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and Illinois

PAC: Oregon, Stanford, Washington, Southern Cal, Utah, UCLA, Arizona, California and Colorado

The South/East Conference looks like this:

East: Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Tennessee and NC State

West: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Ole Miss and Arkansas

Every region of the country is included to maintain national interest. And with the top four teams in each conference matched against each other in an eight team playoff, all four division races will maintain their relevance and interest throughout the regular season.

Wherever I have lists of teams, they are in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating.

***************************************************************

I have 44 teams in my next tier of D-I, including independents Notre Dame and BYU. These I spread over five smaller conferences.

One of these combines midwestern schools from the B1G, SEC and Big XII as follows (I don't have a name for this hybrid yet):

Kansas State, Northwestern, Iowa State, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Purdue and Kansas.

***************************************************************

Another combines current Big XII and AAC schools:

Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa and SMU.

***************************************************************

My Great Northeast Conference is made up of:

West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Maryland and Rutgers.

***************************************************************

My new ACC combines teams from the old ACC and the AAC:

Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, UCF, Duke, Virginia, Wake Forest, USF and East Carolina.

**************************************************************

And finally, bringing the West Coast into play we have:

Washington State, Arizona State, Oregon State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii and San Jose State.

***************************************************************

The third tier also has five conferences, plus five Independents - a total of 50 schools.

The MWC includes: Boise State, Utah State, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV and New Mexico State.

***********************************************************

C-USA West includes: Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, Tulane, UAB, North Texas, Rice, UT San Antonio and UTEP.

C-USA East becomes: Appalachian State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, FAU, FIU, Old Dominion and Charlotte.

**************************************************************

The MAC stays unchanged at 12 members.

The Sunbelt is unchanged except for losing App State.

The five Independents are: Navy, Army, UConn, Liberty and UMass.

With the exception of the MAC, this allows every conference (or Tier One division) to play a full round robin schedule, and leaves room for every school to play its tradition OOC rivals every year within a 12 game regular season. No team is left on an island in its conference. While these conferences need not be the same for all sports, they also work reasonably well for hoops in most cases. And with smaller conference sizes, there is greater room for scheduling OOC opponents in all sports.

(05-02-2020 09:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  If, somehow, it were not necessary to include all B1G and SEC teams in the highest tier for football, it opens up all sorts of arrangements that take geography into greater account than is now the case.

I would now have a North/West Conference that consists of nine current PAC teams and nine B1G teams:

B1G: Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and Illinois

PAC: Oregon, Stanford, Washington, Southern Cal, Utah, UCLA, Arizona, California and Colorado

The South/East Conference looks like this:

East: Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Tennessee and NC State

West: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Ole Miss and Arkansas

Every region of the country is included to maintain national interest. And with the top four teams in each conference matched against each other in an eight team playoff, all four division races will maintain their relevance and interest throughout the regular season.

Wherever I have lists of teams, they are in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating.

***************************************************************

I have 44 teams in my next tier of D-I, including independents Notre Dame and BYU. These I spread over five smaller conferences.

One of these combines midwestern schools from the B1G, SEC and Big XII as follows (I don't have a name for this hybrid yet):

Kansas State, Northwestern, Iowa State, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Purdue and Kansas.

***************************************************************

Another combines current Big XII and AAC schools:

Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa and SMU.

***************************************************************

My Great Northeast Conference is made up of:

West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Maryland and Rutgers.

***************************************************************

My new ACC combines teams from the old ACC and the AAC:

Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, UCF, Duke, Virginia, Wake Forest, USF and East Carolina.

**************************************************************

And finally, bringing the West Coast into play we have:

Washington State, Arizona State, Oregon State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii and San Jose State.

***************************************************************

The third tier also has five conferences, plus five Independents - a total of 50 schools.

The MWC includes: Boise State, Utah State, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV and New Mexico State.

***********************************************************

C-USA West includes: Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, Tulane, UAB, North Texas, Rice, UT San Antonio and UTEP.

C-USA East becomes: Appalachian State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, FAU, FIU, Old Dominion and Charlotte.

**************************************************************

The MAC stays unchanged at 12 members.

The Sunbelt is unchanged except for losing App State.

The five Independents are: Navy, Army, UConn, Liberty and UMass.

With the exception of the MAC, this allows every conference (or Tier One division) to play a full round robin schedule, and leaves room for every school to play its tradition OOC rivals every year within a 12 game regular season. No team is left on an island in its conference. While these conferences need not be the same for all sports, they also work reasonably well for hoops in most cases. And with smaller conference sizes, there is greater room for scheduling OOC opponents in all sports.

Holy crap your new ACC is an abomination.

(05-02-2020 12:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 09:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  If, somehow, it were not necessary to include all B1G and SEC teams in the highest tier for football, it opens up all sorts of arrangements that take geography into greater account than is now the case.

I would now have a North/West Conference that consists of nine current PAC teams and nine B1G teams:

B1G: Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and Illinois

PAC: Oregon, Stanford, Washington, Southern Cal, Utah, UCLA, Arizona, California and Colorado

The South/East Conference looks like this:

East: Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Tennessee and NC State

West: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Ole Miss and Arkansas

Every region of the country is included to maintain national interest. And with the top four teams in each conference matched against each other in an eight team playoff, all four division races will maintain their relevance and interest throughout the regular season.

Wherever I have lists of teams, they are in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating.

***************************************************************

I have 44 teams in my next tier of D-I, including independents Notre Dame and BYU. These I spread over five smaller conferences.

One of these combines midwestern schools from the B1G, SEC and Big XII as follows (I don't have a name for this hybrid yet):

Kansas State, Northwestern, Iowa State, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Purdue and Kansas.

***************************************************************

Another combines current Big XII and AAC schools:

Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa and SMU.

***************************************************************

My Great Northeast Conference is made up of:

West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Maryland and Rutgers.

***************************************************************

My new ACC combines teams from the old ACC and the AAC:

Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, UCF, Duke, Virginia, Wake Forest, USF and East Carolina.

**************************************************************

And finally, bringing the West Coast into play we have:

Washington State, Arizona State, Oregon State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii and San Jose State.

***************************************************************

The third tier also has five conferences, plus five Independents - a total of 50 schools.

The MWC includes: Boise State, Utah State, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV and New Mexico State.

***********************************************************

C-USA West includes: Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, Tulane, UAB, North Texas, Rice, UT San Antonio and UTEP.

C-USA East becomes: Appalachian State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, FAU, FIU, Old Dominion and Charlotte.

**************************************************************

The MAC stays unchanged at 12 members.

The Sunbelt is unchanged except for losing App State.

The five Independents are: Navy, Army, UConn, Liberty and UMass.

With the exception of the MAC, this allows every conference (or Tier One division) to play a full round robin schedule, and leaves room for every school to play its tradition OOC rivals every year within a 12 game regular season. No team is left on an island in its conference. While these conferences need not be the same for all sports, they also work reasonably well for hoops in most cases. And with smaller conference sizes, there is greater room for scheduling OOC opponents in all sports.

Holy crap your new ACC is an abomination.

Think of it as the Southern Division of an 18 team league (along with the Great Northeast), in which the two division champions meet to determine which will host the Orange Bowl every year. Your team would have a balanced four home, four away league schedule, with annual OOC games against NC State and South Carolina.

(05-02-2020 05:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 12:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 09:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  If, somehow, it were not necessary to include all B1G and SEC teams in the highest tier for football, it opens up all sorts of arrangements that take geography into greater account than is now the case.

I would now have a North/West Conference that consists of nine current PAC teams and nine B1G teams:

B1G: Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and Illinois

PAC: Oregon, Stanford, Washington, Southern Cal, Utah, UCLA, Arizona, California and Colorado

The South/East Conference looks like this:

East: Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Tennessee and NC State

West: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Ole Miss and Arkansas

Every region of the country is included to maintain national interest. And with the top four teams in each conference matched against each other in an eight team playoff, all four division races will maintain their relevance and interest throughout the regular season.

Wherever I have lists of teams, they are in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating.

***************************************************************

I have 44 teams in my next tier of D-I, including independents Notre Dame and BYU. These I spread over five smaller conferences.

One of these combines midwestern schools from the B1G, SEC and Big XII as follows (I don't have a name for this hybrid yet):

Kansas State, Northwestern, Iowa State, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Purdue and Kansas.

***************************************************************

Another combines current Big XII and AAC schools:

Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa and SMU.

***************************************************************

My Great Northeast Conference is made up of:

West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Maryland and Rutgers.

***************************************************************

My new ACC combines teams from the old ACC and the AAC:

Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, UCF, Duke, Virginia, Wake Forest, USF and East Carolina.

**************************************************************

And finally, bringing the West Coast into play we have:

Washington State, Arizona State, Oregon State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii and San Jose State.

***************************************************************

The third tier also has five conferences, plus five Independents - a total of 50 schools.

The MWC includes: Boise State, Utah State, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV and New Mexico State.

***********************************************************

C-USA West includes: Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, Tulane, UAB, North Texas, Rice, UT San Antonio and UTEP.

C-USA East becomes: Appalachian State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, FAU, FIU, Old Dominion and Charlotte.

**************************************************************

The MAC stays unchanged at 12 members.

The Sunbelt is unchanged except for losing App State.

The five Independents are: Navy, Army, UConn, Liberty and UMass.

With the exception of the MAC, this allows every conference (or Tier One division) to play a full round robin schedule, and leaves room for every school to play its tradition OOC rivals every year within a 12 game regular season. No team is left on an island in its conference. While these conferences need not be the same for all sports, they also work reasonably well for hoops in most cases. And with smaller conference sizes, there is greater room for scheduling OOC opponents in all sports.

Holy crap your new ACC is an abomination.

Think of it as the Southern Division of an 18 team league (along with the Great Northeast), in which the two division champions meet to determine which will host the Orange Bowl every year. Your team would have a balanced four home, four away league schedule, with annual OOC games against NC State and South Carolina.

It's ridiculous to even think about having South Florida, Central Florida and East Carolina in the same conference/division (or what ever you want to call it) with Carolina.

(05-03-2020 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 05:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 12:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 09:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  If, somehow, it were not necessary to include all B1G and SEC teams in the highest tier for football, it opens up all sorts of arrangements that take geography into greater account than is now the case.

I would now have a North/West Conference that consists of nine current PAC teams and nine B1G teams:

B1G: Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and Illinois

PAC: Oregon, Stanford, Washington, Southern Cal, Utah, UCLA, Arizona, California and Colorado

The South/East Conference looks like this:

East: Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Tennessee and NC State

West: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Ole Miss and Arkansas

Every region of the country is included to maintain national interest. And with the top four teams in each conference matched against each other in an eight team playoff, all four division races will maintain their relevance and interest throughout the regular season.

Wherever I have lists of teams, they are in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating.

***************************************************************

I have 44 teams in my next tier of D-I, including independents Notre Dame and BYU. These I spread over five smaller conferences.

One of these combines midwestern schools from the B1G, SEC and Big XII as follows (I don't have a name for this hybrid yet):

Kansas State, Northwestern, Iowa State, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Purdue and Kansas.

***************************************************************

Another combines current Big XII and AAC schools:

Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa and SMU.

***************************************************************

My Great Northeast Conference is made up of:

West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Maryland and Rutgers.

***************************************************************

My new ACC combines teams from the old ACC and the AAC:

Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, UCF, Duke, Virginia, Wake Forest, USF and East Carolina.

**************************************************************

And finally, bringing the West Coast into play we have:

Washington State, Arizona State, Oregon State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii and San Jose State.

***************************************************************

The third tier also has five conferences, plus five Independents - a total of 50 schools.

The MWC includes: Boise State, Utah State, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV and New Mexico State.

***********************************************************

C-USA West includes: Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, Tulane, UAB, North Texas, Rice, UT San Antonio and UTEP.

C-USA East becomes: Appalachian State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, FAU, FIU, Old Dominion and Charlotte.

**************************************************************

The MAC stays unchanged at 12 members.

The Sunbelt is unchanged except for losing App State.

The five Independents are: Navy, Army, UConn, Liberty and UMass.

With the exception of the MAC, this allows every conference (or Tier One division) to play a full round robin schedule, and leaves room for every school to play its tradition OOC rivals every year within a 12 game regular season. No team is left on an island in its conference. While these conferences need not be the same for all sports, they also work reasonably well for hoops in most cases. And with smaller conference sizes, there is greater room for scheduling OOC opponents in all sports.

Holy crap your new ACC is an abomination.

Think of it as the Southern Division of an 18 team league (along with the Great Northeast), in which the two division champions meet to determine which will host the Orange Bowl every year. Your team would have a balanced four home, four away league schedule, with annual OOC games against NC State and South Carolina.

It's ridiculous to even think about having South Florida, Central Florida and East Carolina in the same conference/division (or what ever you want to call it) with Carolina.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I think Carolina has shown that they are capable of competing with those schools.

(05-03-2020 07:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-03-2020 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 05:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 12:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 09:42 AM)ken d Wrote:  If, somehow, it were not necessary to include all B1G and SEC teams in the highest tier for football, it opens up all sorts of arrangements that take geography into greater account than is now the case.

I would now have a North/West Conference that consists of nine current PAC teams and nine B1G teams:

B1G: Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and Illinois

PAC: Oregon, Stanford, Washington, Southern Cal, Utah, UCLA, Arizona, California and Colorado

The South/East Conference looks like this:

East: Clemson, Georgia, Auburn, Florida State, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Tennessee and NC State

West: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Missouri, Texas, Ole Miss and Arkansas

Every region of the country is included to maintain national interest. And with the top four teams in each conference matched against each other in an eight team playoff, all four division races will maintain their relevance and interest throughout the regular season.

Wherever I have lists of teams, they are in order of their 10 year average Sagarin rating.

***************************************************************

I have 44 teams in my next tier of D-I, including independents Notre Dame and BYU. These I spread over five smaller conferences.

One of these combines midwestern schools from the B1G, SEC and Big XII as follows (I don't have a name for this hybrid yet):

Kansas State, Northwestern, Iowa State, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Purdue and Kansas.

***************************************************************

Another combines current Big XII and AAC schools:

Oklahoma State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa and SMU.

***************************************************************

My Great Northeast Conference is made up of:

West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, Maryland and Rutgers.

***************************************************************

My new ACC combines teams from the old ACC and the AAC:

Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, UCF, Duke, Virginia, Wake Forest, USF and East Carolina.

**************************************************************

And finally, bringing the West Coast into play we have:

Washington State, Arizona State, Oregon State, San Diego State, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii and San Jose State.

***************************************************************

The third tier also has five conferences, plus five Independents - a total of 50 schools.

The MWC includes: Boise State, Utah State, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV and New Mexico State.

***********************************************************

C-USA West includes: Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, Tulane, UAB, North Texas, Rice, UT San Antonio and UTEP.

C-USA East becomes: Appalachian State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, FAU, FIU, Old Dominion and Charlotte.

**************************************************************

The MAC stays unchanged at 12 members.

The Sunbelt is unchanged except for losing App State.

The five Independents are: Navy, Army, UConn, Liberty and UMass.

With the exception of the MAC, this allows every conference (or Tier One division) to play a full round robin schedule, and leaves room for every school to play its tradition OOC rivals every year within a 12 game regular season. No team is left on an island in its conference. While these conferences need not be the same for all sports, they also work reasonably well for hoops in most cases. And with smaller conference sizes, there is greater room for scheduling OOC opponents in all sports.

Holy crap your new ACC is an abomination.

Think of it as the Southern Division of an 18 team league (along with the Great Northeast), in which the two division champions meet to determine which will host the Orange Bowl every year. Your team would have a balanced four home, four away league schedule, with annual OOC games against NC State and South Carolina.

It's ridiculous to even think about having South Florida, Central Florida and East Carolina in the same conference/division (or what ever you want to call it) with Carolina.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I think Carolina has shown that they are capable of competing with those schools.

Yeah. It isn’t far-fetched to think UCF/USF could be replacements if the ACC were to lose members. Both schools are R1, ranked ahead of the ACC’s latest addition in USNWR, & play in two of the most desirable markets for student recruiting and college sports.

Those are two schools who will only rise long-term. For two newbies, it’s actually incredible they’re as high as they are academically. And given the mass enrollments, they could snap their fingers, cut their acceptance rates in half, and become top-100 schools overnight if they wanted.

(05-03-2020 10:55 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-03-2020 07:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-03-2020 07:42 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 05:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 12:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  Holy crap your new ACC is an abomination.

Think of it as the Southern Division of an 18 team league (along with the Great Northeast), in which the two division champions meet to determine which will host the Orange Bowl every year. Your team would have a balanced four home, four away league schedule, with annual OOC games against NC State and South Carolina.

It's ridiculous to even think about having South Florida, Central Florida and East Carolina in the same conference/division (or what ever you want to call it) with Carolina.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I think Carolina has shown that they are capable of competing with those schools.

Yeah. It isn’t far-fetched to think UCF/USF could be replacements if the ACC were to lose members. Both schools are R1, ranked ahead of the ACC’s latest addition in USNWR, & play in two of the most desirable markets for student recruiting and college sports.

Those are two schools who will only rise long-term. For two newbies, it’s actually incredible they’re as high as they are academically. And given the mass enrollments, they could snap their fingers, cut their acceptance rates in half, and become top-100 schools overnight if they wanted.

USNWR means nothing to college presidents. It's an estimation for the best value for your money for an undergraduate degree. To be consistent in raking schools based on academics ARWU would be the better metric. And for those who use USNWR it would be an eye opener as well.

A quick search of ARWU shows:
19 Wisconsin
21 Northwestern

That’s...not credible. No one in the real world would put Wisconsin over Northwestern. We’re not talking about splitting hairs here — Northwestern is miles ahead of Wisconsin.

But FWIW;
67 - USF
95 - UCF

If University presidents use ARWU, that improves the U_F’s stature.

(05-03-2020 04:35 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  A quick search of ARWU shows:
19 Wisconsin
21 Northwestern

That’s...not credible. No one in the real world would put Wisconsin over Northwestern. We’re not talking about splitting hairs here — Northwestern is miles ahead of Wisconsin.

But FWIW;
67 - USF
95 - UCF

If University presidents use ARWU, that improves the U_F’s stature.

Talk to the Academics. That's their tool. USNWR isn't credible other than as a guide to parents as to what USNWR views as the best bang for the buck. Wisconsin Madison does a great deal of research. ARWU is a research ranking service. And that is what AAU membership is based upon. So like it or not that's the tool.

I must apologize for an earlier post. It seems that my geographically motivated ACC put some Carolina fans in serious danger. They could suffer a major neck injury as a result of having to put their noses too far in the air. I'll fix that here.

At the same time, I'm coming to realize that pulling major pieces from the Big XII and the ACC would diminish the stature of those leagues with regard to football (not to mention the size of their media contracts). I would hope that the SEC and the PGL (my new name for the combined stars of the PAC and the B1G - the Pacific Great Lakes Conference) would throw the rest of the P5 a bone when it comes to the NY6.

Just as the Sugar Bowl becomes the championship game for the SEC and the Rose Bowl for the PGL, I propose making the Orange Bowl the CCG for the ACC and the Cotton Bowl the CCG for the Big XII. The ACC now looks like this:

North: Louisville, Pitt, UCF, Cincinnati, Boston College, Syracuse, Temple, USF and East Carolina.
South: Miami, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Virginia and Wake Forest.

The new Big XII consists of:

North: Kansas State, West Virginia, Northwestern, Iowa State, Indiana, Maryland, Purdue, Rutgers and Kansas.
South: Oklahoma St, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa and SMU.

The new PAC would host the Fiesta Bowl and consists of:

Boise St, Arizona St, BYU, Washington St, San Diego St, Oregon St, Fresno St, Hawaii (FB only) and San Jose St.

That leaves only three more spots for the highest ranked teams not already in the NY6 field (thus, the bone being thrown). At the completion of the NY6, the highest ranked conference champions or independents would play for the national championship at Jerry World.

The new B12 has an aggregate 10 year average Sagarin rating of 71.6 while the ACC's is 70.7 and the MWC 69.4. These are all about 10 points per game below the combined SEC and PGL, and roughly 10 points better than the 50 remaining FBS schools not named Notre Dame, forming three distinct Tiers or Classes within the FBS.

I sincerely hope this revision meets with the approval of Carolina fans.

(05-03-2020 04:35 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  A quick search of ARWU shows:
19 Wisconsin
21 Northwestern

That’s...not credible. No one in the real world would put Wisconsin over Northwestern. We’re not talking about splitting hairs here — Northwestern is miles ahead of Wisconsin.

But FWIW;
67 - USF
95 - UCF

If University presidents use ARWU, that improves the U_F’s stature.

JR is correct. ARWU is how major research universities measure each other. US News is something that is easy to game and is a function mainly of the number of applicants versus spots. To move in US News just go around your state and gin up free applicants or take the one or two US news representatives in the state on a three day outing at a nice resort. ARWU is about outputs,