Starting this here to not derail other threads....................

Thanks Hoops. Agree with you regarding State's loss. It was a really tough loss for Keatts and there are a lot of people that are getting frustrated. It's not fair to Keatts, but this is a familiar story for them, plus this makes two years in a row that he's going to finish with a winning record without a marquee win (assuming he doesn't beat L'ville, Duke or FSU). He has time to change the narrative, but another .500 ACC finish and NIT berth is going to make things uncomfortable. Makes no sense that they would come out flat, at home, against their biggest rival, and then to ear him mention lack of effort and mental lapses; that won't play.

I don't think he is close to getting fired, but something feels off with his current roster. They seemed to lack leadership last night, but I don't watch them regularly. Bryce and Markell were both played poorly last night. I get that Markell had length on him most of the night, but how does Andrew Platek d-up Bryce and shut him down?

(01-28-2020 10:55 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  Right now they are in trouble with Louisville next I think it could be tough sledding. Might not make the NCAA at all.

You're right. 10 ACC games to go. 2 games they should be favored (Miami and Wake), five where they will be dogs (L'ville, @Syracuse, DukeX2, and FSU). That puts a lot of pressure to win at home against Pitt, and in Chapel Hill and Chesnut Hill. I don't think 10-10 gets in the tournament this year.

(01-28-2020 01:30 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Thanks Hoops. Agree with you regarding State's loss. It was a really tough loss for Keatts and there are a lot of people that are getting frustrated. It's not fair to Keatts, but this is a familiar story for them, plus this makes two years in a row that he's going to finish with a winning record without a marquee win (assuming he doesn't beat L'ville, Duke or FSU). He has time to change the narrative, but another .500 ACC finish and NIT berth is going to make things uncomfortable. Makes no sense that they would come out flat, at home, against their biggest rival, and then to ear him mention lack of effort and mental lapses; that won't play.

I don't think he is close to getting fired, but something feels off with his current roster. They seemed to lack leadership last night, but I don't watch them regularly. Bryce and Markell were both played poorly last night. I get that Markell had length on him most of the night, but how does Andrew Platek d-up Bryce and shut him down?

Especially after Bryce Last week said on record " We can beat anyone in the country at home" oops

Selection committee will be interesting this year. Big10 and ACC teams are all devouring each other, so all of their resumes will look eerily similar. Do you take them all and screw everyone else? Picking between some will be a very difficult task. No matter how it shakes down, I don't see them choosing more mids in spite of the power conferences, they will find a way to split hairs between them all in the power conferences favor. It truly is a season where I am not sure there really are any favorites.

(01-28-2020 01:49 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:30 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Thanks Hoops. Agree with you regarding State's loss. It was a really tough loss for Keatts and there are a lot of people that are getting frustrated. It's not fair to Keatts, but this is a familiar story for them, plus this makes two years in a row that he's going to finish with a winning record without a marquee win (assuming he doesn't beat L'ville, Duke or FSU). He has time to change the narrative, but another .500 ACC finish and NIT berth is going to make things uncomfortable. Makes no sense that they would come out flat, at home, against their biggest rival, and then to ear him mention lack of effort and mental lapses; that won't play.

I don't think he is close to getting fired, but something feels off with his current roster. They seemed to lack leadership last night, but I don't watch them regularly. Bryce and Markell were both played poorly last night. I get that Markell had length on him most of the night, but how does Andrew Platek d-up Bryce and shut him down?

Especially after Bryce Last week said on record " We can beat anyone in the country at home" oops

I watched the last 10 minutes last night and what I saw was State is not good defensively inside and they were just flat as a team. At home against Carolina and no energy-unreal.

(01-28-2020 03:16 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:49 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 01:30 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Thanks Hoops. Agree with you regarding State's loss. It was a really tough loss for Keatts and there are a lot of people that are getting frustrated. It's not fair to Keatts, but this is a familiar story for them, plus this makes two years in a row that he's going to finish with a winning record without a marquee win (assuming he doesn't beat L'ville, Duke or FSU). He has time to change the narrative, but another .500 ACC finish and NIT berth is going to make things uncomfortable. Makes no sense that they would come out flat, at home, against their biggest rival, and then to ear him mention lack of effort and mental lapses; that won't play.

I don't think he is close to getting fired, but something feels off with his current roster. They seemed to lack leadership last night, but I don't watch them regularly. Bryce and Markell were both played poorly last night. I get that Markell had length on him most of the night, but how does Andrew Platek d-up Bryce and shut him down?

Especially after Bryce Last week said on record " We can beat anyone in the country at home" oops

I watched the last 10 minutes last night and what I saw was State is not good defensively inside

This is a problem he had here, he was just able to create enough turnovers to offset the layups we gave up

Keatts will be fine for the time being but here is another reminder of why patience will run thin at nc state (beyond their completely irrational expectations). Enjoy (for those who have not seen)

Link

(01-28-2020 03:39 PM)dan10 Wrote:  Keatts will be fine for the time being but here is another reminder of why patience will run thin at nc state (beyond their completely irrational expectations). Enjoy (for those who have not seen)

Link

His contract is good through 2026 is what someone said and if that is the case he is not in trouble at all for now. State is a good not great job but the base is pretty crazy about the expectations for the program I think. He can and is winning there but to get back to the top would be a fluke and not sustainable-IMO. They have a good class coming in next year but guess what-Carolina,Duke,Louisville and others will be right there or better than State. It is really hard to see them competing in the top 3 spots of the ACC which usually means you are at the top of the polls nationally.

(01-28-2020 03:39 PM)dan10 Wrote:  Keatts will be fine for the time being but here is another reminder of why patience will run thin at nc state (beyond their completely irrational expectations). Enjoy (for those who have not seen)

Link

That was fantastic!!!

The expectations at State are what a lot of us scoffed at when he left UNCW for that job.

Someone posted in the other thread (I think it was SN08), Herb Sendek's results. State fans would be clamoring for that now, but their delusion that they belong in the same tier as UNC/Duke/Kentucky type blue blood has brought them nothing more than the usual discontent. They really jacked that up, and haven't even matched THAT success since they canned Sendek.

(01-28-2020 04:03 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 03:39 PM)dan10 Wrote:  Keatts will be fine for the time being but here is another reminder of why patience will run thin at nc state (beyond their completely irrational expectations). Enjoy (for those who have not seen)

Link

His contract is good through 2026 is what someone said and if that is the case he is not in trouble at all for now. State is a good not great job but the base is pretty crazy about the expectations for the program I think. He can and is winning there but to get back to the top would be a fluke and not sustainable-IMO. They have a good class coming in next year but guess what-Carolina,Duke,Louisville and others will be right there or better than State. It is really hard to see them competing in the top 3 spots of the ACC which usually means you are at the top of the polls nationally.

Duke and Carolina are both in top 5, State has fallen to #9. L'Vill is no where in top 25. You are correct about his contract, they extended him 2 more years through 25-26 season last September.

(01-28-2020 05:31 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  The expectations at State are what a lot of us scoffed at when he left UNCW for that job.

Yup, that's exactly what i think most of were thinking about when we said it wasn't a "good job". It's a mid tier college job at best. Had he continued to win and waited another year or two, he could have landed a top tier job IMO easily.

He is from Virigina correct?

Coaching in the ACC would have to be the ultimate for him, I would think

With UNC, Duke, Louisville, UVA, FSU, Clemson and Cuse occupied for the foreseeable future what would be. a better job in the ACC

Now if he was good with going to a different conference he may have found a more prestigious job it if he waited

Herb Sendek didn’t make th NCAA tournament until his 6th year at State. If they give Keatts the same amount of time, I think he’ll be fine. Especially with the class he has coming in next season.

(01-28-2020 09:04 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  Herb Sendek didn’t make th NCAA tournament until his 6th year at State. If they give Keatts the same amount of time, I think he’ll be fine. Especially with the class he has coming in next season.

When Sendek took over at State, they hadn’t had a winning season in 6 years. They had won no more than 6 ACC games in a season in that span. The year before he arrived, under Les Robinson, State went 3-13 in ACC play. Sendek got the program turned around and then turned State into a regular NCAA Tourney participant.

That’s a very different situation than the one Keatts walked into. Gottfried wasn’t a good coach but he led them to 4 straight 20+ win seasons from 2011-15, with 9+ ACC wins each season in that span.

(01-29-2020 12:45 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 09:04 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  Herb Sendek didn’t make th NCAA tournament until his 6th year at State. If they give Keatts the same amount of time, I think he’ll be fine. Especially with the class he has coming in next season.

When Sendek took over at State, they hadn’t had a winning season in 6 years. They had won no more than 6 ACC games in a season in that span. The year before he arrived, under Les Robinson, State went 3-13 in ACC play. Sendek got the program turned around and then turned State into a regular NCAA Tourney participant.

That’s a very different situation than the one Keatts walked into. Gottfried wasn’t a good coach but he led them to 4 straight 20+ win seasons from 2011-15, with 9+ ACC wins each season in that span.

Gottfried also left the program with an NCAA investigation that I guess is still going on... idk I really don’t keep up with it. Seems relevant though. Gottfried's last two seasons were awful too. While I don’t think Keatts has done a very good job there yet, he’s been ok. These things take time when you’re a middle of that road job in a big conference like the ACC. No way he’s on the hot seat until at least year 5 would be my guess. Whether their fans like that or not, it will be interesting to see.

The benefit of a job like NC State is that you get ample opportunities per year to get those "big" wins. That helps keep your seat warm versus hot. As far as the fans, that is a different story on expectations. Some big wins keep you around and buy you time, after a full cycle it has to be more than that for about any ACC job. He has won enough early on to get him through a full recruiting cycle. But results will need to be shown in the next season or 2 or he won't be there much longer (if their past predicts their future)

(01-29-2020 08:17 AM)Gary Miller Wrote:  Gottfried also left the program with an NCAA investigation that I guess is still going on... idk I really don’t keep up with it. Seems relevant though.

Eh. It's only relevant when a team gets punished. I don't see that having any impact on recruiting or Keatts' ability to win games.

(01-29-2020 08:29 AM)dan10 Wrote:  The benefit of a job like NC State is that you get ample opportunities per year to get those "big" wins.

Keatts' seat is warm because he hasn't won any of these games in the past 1.5 years. Last year they played the worst D1 schedule in all of basketball, and despite their record they were penalized for such a weak schedule by being left out of tournament. It's not hot yet because it's year three, but that is the point: no big wins to point to since January '18, losing to your rival and in the post-game PC explaining that effort and attention to detail were lacking...plus also having two players admit that they didn't study the scouting report.

(01-29-2020 08:29 AM)dan10 Wrote:  He has won enough early on to get him through a full recruiting cycle.

To get through a full cycle, I'd agree, but if he misses the tournament again this year and his marquee win the past two seasons is a buzzer beater at UNCG, he'll enter year four on the hot seat. The year is not over, but they're restless here in Raleigh.

(01-29-2020 08:29 AM)dan10 Wrote:  But results will need to be shown in the next season or 2 or he won't be there much longer (if their past predicts their future)

I think he'll be fine if they give him time, but he's had a really bad week. I really can't get over their effort and explanation for what went wrong on Monday.