As much as it pains me to admit it, Arkansas

They have the best history, facilities and fan base of those 3 and those of us who remember know what a monster piggy can be with the right man at the helm.

So naturally IMO they just need the right kind of coach to bring them back. Someone like Mike Leach who is both funny as hell and the all time master of getting the most out of 3 star recruits could do amazing there (and knows how to recruit Texas) could turn them back into a contender

(12-20-2019 08:41 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  As much as it pains me to admit it, Arkansas

They have the best history, facilities and fan base of those 3 and those of us who remember know what a monster piggy can be with the right man at the helm.

So naturally IMO they just need the right kind of coach to bring them back. Someone like Mike Leach who is both funny as hell and the all time master of getting the most out of 3 star recruits could do amazing there (and knows how to recruit Texas) could turn them back into a contender

I would agree with that.

The only issue with Mike Leach is that he's currently at a school where you can go 6-6, finish at the bottom of a mediocre division, and still get a contract extension.

I think the time for a program with expectations to grab Leach might have passed.

(12-20-2019 01:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 08:41 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  As much as it pains me to admit it, Arkansas

They have the best history, facilities and fan base of those 3 and those of us who remember know what a monster piggy can be with the right man at the helm.

So naturally IMO they just need the right kind of coach to bring them back. Someone like Mike Leach who is both funny as hell and the all time master of getting the most out of 3 star recruits could do amazing there (and knows how to recruit Texas) could turn them back into a contender

I would agree with that.

The only issue with Mike Leach is that he's currently at a school where you can go 6-6, finish at the bottom of a mediocre division, and still get a contract extension.

I think the time for a program with expectations to grab Leach might have passed.

The difference between Washington State and Arkansas that is relevant to Leach is this: Washington State is honest with itself about their football team. They don't expect to be Pete Carroll's USC. Leach won 11 games last season, but they're not going to fire him for not winning 11 every season. With Arkansas, on the other hand, I get the impression that the people who matter are completely unrealistic about their football program.

(12-20-2019 03:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 01:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 08:41 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  As much as it pains me to admit it, Arkansas

They have the best history, facilities and fan base of those 3 and those of us who remember know what a monster piggy can be with the right man at the helm.

So naturally IMO they just need the right kind of coach to bring them back. Someone like Mike Leach who is both funny as hell and the all time master of getting the most out of 3 star recruits could do amazing there (and knows how to recruit Texas) could turn them back into a contender

I would agree with that.

The only issue with Mike Leach is that he's currently at a school where you can go 6-6, finish at the bottom of a mediocre division, and still get a contract extension.

I think the time for a program with expectations to grab Leach might have passed.

The difference between Washington State and Arkansas that is relevant to Leach is this: Washington State is honest with itself about their football team. They don't expect to be Pete Carroll's USC. Leach won 11 games last season, but they're not going to fire him for not winning 11 every season. With Arkansas, on the other hand, I get the impression that the people who matter are completely unrealistic about their football program.

I would agree that Wazzu is completely realistic. Makes plenty of sense why they would try to keep him.

From Leach's perspective, if you've got that going for you then do you really need to go anywhere else?

When it comes to Arkansas, there may be a faction that's not realistic, but they are capable of more. It wasn't that long ago that Bobby Petrino had them in a BCS bowl. People forget they snagged Petrino from the Falcons. Obviously, the NFL wasn't going to work for him, but it's not every day an NFL head coach leaves for a college job.

Both Houston Nutt and Danny Ford took them to Atlanta. They haven't won an SEC title, but they have been much more competitive than people give them credit for.

(12-20-2019 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 03:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 01:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 08:41 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  As much as it pains me to admit it, Arkansas

They have the best history, facilities and fan base of those 3 and those of us who remember know what a monster piggy can be with the right man at the helm.

So naturally IMO they just need the right kind of coach to bring them back. Someone like Mike Leach who is both funny as hell and the all time master of getting the most out of 3 star recruits could do amazing there (and knows how to recruit Texas) could turn them back into a contender

I would agree with that.

The only issue with Mike Leach is that he's currently at a school where you can go 6-6, finish at the bottom of a mediocre division, and still get a contract extension.

I think the time for a program with expectations to grab Leach might have passed.

The difference between Washington State and Arkansas that is relevant to Leach is this: Washington State is honest with itself about their football team. They don't expect to be Pete Carroll's USC. Leach won 11 games last season, but they're not going to fire him for not winning 11 every season. With Arkansas, on the other hand, I get the impression that the people who matter are completely unrealistic about their football program.

I would agree that Wazzu is completely realistic. Makes plenty of sense why they would try to keep him.

From Leach's perspective, if you've got that going for you then do you really need to go anywhere else?

When it comes to Arkansas, there may be a faction that's not realistic, but they are capable of more. It wasn't that long ago that Bobby Petrino had them in a BCS bowl. People forget they snagged Petrino from the Falcons. Obviously, the NFL wasn't going to work for him, but it's not every day an NFL head coach leaves for a college job.

Both Houston Nutt and Danny Ford took them to Atlanta. They haven't won an SEC title, but they have been much more competitive than people give them credit for.

Leach makes $4 million/year at Wazzu. I could see him leaving if he's butting heads with the school president or AD. I could see him leaving if he had a chance to coach a team that has the potential to be a national title contender and/or a perennial top 10 team. The first one isn't true right now, and the second one isn't true about Arkansas.

If a new staff massively improves their program, then the Hogs have *occasional* potential if in a single season they have the right coaching, the right players, and the right luck, but that's also true of Washington State, where Leach won 11 games last year and finished ranked #10.

In the last 25 years, Washington State has been ranked in the final AP top 10 five times, compared to only once for Arkansas.

(12-20-2019 04:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 03:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 01:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 08:41 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  As much as it pains me to admit it, Arkansas

They have the best history, facilities and fan base of those 3 and those of us who remember know what a monster piggy can be with the right man at the helm.

So naturally IMO they just need the right kind of coach to bring them back. Someone like Mike Leach who is both funny as hell and the all time master of getting the most out of 3 star recruits could do amazing there (and knows how to recruit Texas) could turn them back into a contender

I would agree with that.

The only issue with Mike Leach is that he's currently at a school where you can go 6-6, finish at the bottom of a mediocre division, and still get a contract extension.

I think the time for a program with expectations to grab Leach might have passed.

The difference between Washington State and Arkansas that is relevant to Leach is this: Washington State is honest with itself about their football team. They don't expect to be Pete Carroll's USC. Leach won 11 games last season, but they're not going to fire him for not winning 11 every season. With Arkansas, on the other hand, I get the impression that the people who matter are completely unrealistic about their football program.

I would agree that Wazzu is completely realistic. Makes plenty of sense why they would try to keep him.

From Leach's perspective, if you've got that going for you then do you really need to go anywhere else?

When it comes to Arkansas, there may be a faction that's not realistic, but they are capable of more. It wasn't that long ago that Bobby Petrino had them in a BCS bowl. People forget they snagged Petrino from the Falcons. Obviously, the NFL wasn't going to work for him, but it's not every day an NFL head coach leaves for a college job.

Both Houston Nutt and Danny Ford took them to Atlanta. They haven't won an SEC title, but they have been much more competitive than people give them credit for.

Leach makes $4 million/year at Wazzu. I could see him leaving if he's butting heads with the school president or AD. I could see him leaving if he had a chance to coach a team that has the potential to be a national title contender and/or a perennial top 10 team. The first one isn't true right now, and the second one isn't true about Arkansas.

If a new staff massively improves their program, then the Hogs have *occasional* potential if in a single season they have the right coaching, the right players, and the right luck, but that's also true of Washington State, where Leach won 11 games last year and finished ranked #10.

In the last 25 years, Washington State has been ranked in the final AP top 10 five times, compared to only once for Arkansas.

Wazzu has landed a couple of pretty nice coaches in the last few decades. Mike Price had a good run and should have never left. Mike Leach is one of the better coaches in the game today. Given that reality, it's not a surprise that Wazzu would have some pretty good finishes although it's obviously not every year.

Compare that to Arkansas...Danny Ford, Houston Nutt, Bobby Petrino...none of those guys are recognized as being the caliber of coach Mike Leach is. Nonetheless, Arkansas did pretty well during their tenures.

My intent isn't to suggest Arkansas is a sleeping giant and the right hire will turn them into a juggernaut. What I'm really saying is that it's a program that has underachieved quite a bit in recent years. They have challenges, but they have a lot of advantages as well. Give them the right leadership and they are a perennial top 25.

(12-21-2019 04:22 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 04:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 03:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 01:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I would agree with that.

The only issue with Mike Leach is that he's currently at a school where you can go 6-6, finish at the bottom of a mediocre division, and still get a contract extension.

I think the time for a program with expectations to grab Leach might have passed.

The difference between Washington State and Arkansas that is relevant to Leach is this: Washington State is honest with itself about their football team. They don't expect to be Pete Carroll's USC. Leach won 11 games last season, but they're not going to fire him for not winning 11 every season. With Arkansas, on the other hand, I get the impression that the people who matter are completely unrealistic about their football program.

I would agree that Wazzu is completely realistic. Makes plenty of sense why they would try to keep him.

From Leach's perspective, if you've got that going for you then do you really need to go anywhere else?

When it comes to Arkansas, there may be a faction that's not realistic, but they are capable of more. It wasn't that long ago that Bobby Petrino had them in a BCS bowl. People forget they snagged Petrino from the Falcons. Obviously, the NFL wasn't going to work for him, but it's not every day an NFL head coach leaves for a college job.

Both Houston Nutt and Danny Ford took them to Atlanta. They haven't won an SEC title, but they have been much more competitive than people give them credit for.

Leach makes $4 million/year at Wazzu. I could see him leaving if he's butting heads with the school president or AD. I could see him leaving if he had a chance to coach a team that has the potential to be a national title contender and/or a perennial top 10 team. The first one isn't true right now, and the second one isn't true about Arkansas.

If a new staff massively improves their program, then the Hogs have *occasional* potential if in a single season they have the right coaching, the right players, and the right luck, but that's also true of Washington State, where Leach won 11 games last year and finished ranked #10.

In the last 25 years, Washington State has been ranked in the final AP top 10 five times, compared to only once for Arkansas.

Wazzu has landed a couple of pretty nice coaches in the last few decades. Mike Price had a good run and should have never left. Mike Leach is one of the better coaches in the game today. Given that reality, it's not a surprise that Wazzu would have some pretty good finishes although it's obviously not every year.

Compare that to Arkansas...Danny Ford, Houston Nutt, Bobby Petrino...none of those guys are recognized as being the caliber of coach Mike Leach is. Nonetheless, Arkansas did pretty well during their tenures.

My intent isn't to suggest Arkansas is a sleeping giant and the right hire will turn them into a juggernaut. What I'm really saying is that it's a program that has underachieved quite a bit in recent years. They have challenges, but they have a lot of advantages as well. Give them the right leadership and they are a perennial top 25.

I think that's going a bit too far. In order to be a perennial top 25 team, the Hogs would have to be consistently better than at least one of LSU, Alabama, and Auburn. That won't happen unless one of those programs craters. Even then, Texas A&M has more advantages than Arkansas.

(12-21-2019 07:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 04:22 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  My intent isn't to suggest Arkansas is a sleeping giant and the right hire will turn them into a juggernaut. What I'm really saying is that it's a program that has underachieved quite a bit in recent years. They have challenges, but they have a lot of advantages as well. Give them the right leadership and they are a perennial top 25.

I think that's going a bit too far. In order to be a perennial top 25 team, the Hogs would have to be consistently better than at least one of LSU, Alabama, and Auburn. That won't happen unless one of those programs craters. Even then, Texas A&M has more advantages than Arkansas.

Here are the circumstances of the 3 times Arkansas went to the SEC CG:

1995 - The SEC West was horrible that year. The Hogs lost to SMU and still won the division with 2 SEC losses (every other team had 3 or more - it looked like this year's ACC Coastal!)

2002 - Arkansas went to the SEC CG with 3 losses thanks to Alabama being on probation (it was a 3-way tie for 2nd place between Arkansas, Auburn and LSU, but the Hogs won the tie-breaker by beating both Tiger teams).

2006 - Alabama lost 6 (!) SEC games this year, and the Hogs split with Auburn and LSU while beating all other SEC opponents (their cross-overs that year were South Carolina and Tennessee).

Don't hold your breath for these things to happen again any time soon.

(12-21-2019 07:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 04:22 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 04:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 03:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The difference between Washington State and Arkansas that is relevant to Leach is this: Washington State is honest with itself about their football team. They don't expect to be Pete Carroll's USC. Leach won 11 games last season, but they're not going to fire him for not winning 11 every season. With Arkansas, on the other hand, I get the impression that the people who matter are completely unrealistic about their football program.

I would agree that Wazzu is completely realistic. Makes plenty of sense why they would try to keep him.

From Leach's perspective, if you've got that going for you then do you really need to go anywhere else?

When it comes to Arkansas, there may be a faction that's not realistic, but they are capable of more. It wasn't that long ago that Bobby Petrino had them in a BCS bowl. People forget they snagged Petrino from the Falcons. Obviously, the NFL wasn't going to work for him, but it's not every day an NFL head coach leaves for a college job.

Both Houston Nutt and Danny Ford took them to Atlanta. They haven't won an SEC title, but they have been much more competitive than people give them credit for.

Leach makes $4 million/year at Wazzu. I could see him leaving if he's butting heads with the school president or AD. I could see him leaving if he had a chance to coach a team that has the potential to be a national title contender and/or a perennial top 10 team. The first one isn't true right now, and the second one isn't true about Arkansas.

If a new staff massively improves their program, then the Hogs have *occasional* potential if in a single season they have the right coaching, the right players, and the right luck, but that's also true of Washington State, where Leach won 11 games last year and finished ranked #10.

In the last 25 years, Washington State has been ranked in the final AP top 10 five times, compared to only once for Arkansas.

Wazzu has landed a couple of pretty nice coaches in the last few decades. Mike Price had a good run and should have never left. Mike Leach is one of the better coaches in the game today. Given that reality, it's not a surprise that Wazzu would have some pretty good finishes although it's obviously not every year.

Compare that to Arkansas...Danny Ford, Houston Nutt, Bobby Petrino...none of those guys are recognized as being the caliber of coach Mike Leach is. Nonetheless, Arkansas did pretty well during their tenures.

My intent isn't to suggest Arkansas is a sleeping giant and the right hire will turn them into a juggernaut. What I'm really saying is that it's a program that has underachieved quite a bit in recent years. They have challenges, but they have a lot of advantages as well. Give them the right leadership and they are a perennial top 25.

I think that's going a bit too far. In order to be a perennial top 25 team, the Hogs would have to be consistently better than at least one of LSU, Alabama, and Auburn. That won't happen unless one of those programs craters. Even then, Texas A&M has more advantages than Arkansas.

A&M does have more advantages. You could easily argue the other 3 as well, but it's not unreasonable for all 5 of those programs to be in the top 25. It wouldn't happen every season obviously, but they are capable.