Is this a 3 page thread about the Saudis killing a Saudi on Saudi soil in Turkey? Why does this concern the us? It's not like they through him off a roof or something for his sexual preference.

Now that is a reasonable position to have. I can understand the condemnation than the wink wink with the letter. It absolutely sickened me to see Putin and MBS yucking it up at the G 20. That had to bother some of you.

(12-02-2018 07:51 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Is this a 3 page thread about the Saudis killing a Saudi on Saudi soil in Turkey? Why does this concern the us? It's not like they through him off a roof or something for his sexual preference.

Eagle someone in the CIA is leaking to prove our President a LIAR.... that is extraordinary. It’s not the crime per se it’s the blatant lying about it.

Ugggghhhhhhhh

(12-02-2018 06:43 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  WASHINGTON—Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman sent at least 11 messages to his closest adviser, who oversaw the team that killed journalist Jamal Khashoggi, in the hours before and after the journalist’s death in October, according to a highly classified CIA assessment.

The Saudi leader also in August 2017 had told associates that if his efforts to persuade Mr. Khashoggi to return to Saudi Arabia weren’t successful, “we could possibly lure him outside Saudi Arabia and make arrangements,” according to the assessment, a communication that it states “seems to foreshadow the Saudi operation launched against Khashoggi.”

You obviously don't understand the difference between "definitive" and circumstantial. There's nothing definitive there. Certainly things that raise suspicions, but absolutely nothing you could convict anyone on (at least not in the US).

(12-02-2018 07:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It absolutely sickened me to see Putin and MBS yucking it up at the G 20. That had to bother some of you.

Why?

I'd say that might be indicative of one reason why we shouldn't overreact to Khashoggi, but beyond that I don't quite see where you are going with this.

And while we are at it, how does, "Tell Vladimir I will have more flexibility after the election," strike you?

(12-02-2018 07:48 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 07:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You can have that opinion but the President of the United States can’t lie about it. He can’t say maybe it was MBS maybe it wasn’t. You have to hold yourself as a leader of the free world to a higher standard.

I would have issued a statement that said this appears to be a terrible incident and we don't approve, but it's basically not our circus, not our monkeys. Then I would have expressed our displeasure and exerted some pressure behind the scenes.

If it's any comfort to you, I certainly would never have said anything about saving $X billion in defense contracts.

And that is exactly what President Trump did. Machiavelli keeps lying and saying he didn't.

(12-02-2018 07:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Now that is a reasonable position to have. I can understand the condemnation than the wink wink with the letter. It absolutely sickened me to see Putin and MBS yucking it up at the G 20. That had to bother some of you.

And how did you feel about Nixon talking to Mao? Or JFK/LBJ/Nixon/Ford/Carter/Reagan/HW talking to various Soviet leaders?
Or Carter and Clinton hanging out with Yasser Arafat, a known terrorist.

Or for that matter, FDR talking with Stalin, one of the biggest mass murderers of the century.

(12-02-2018 08:54 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 07:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It absolutely sickened me to see Putin and MBS yucking it up at the G 20. That had to bother some of you.

Why?

I'd say that might be indicative of one reason why we shouldn't overreact to Khashoggi, but beyond that I don't quite see where you are going with this.

Don't sweat it, neither does he.

(12-02-2018 07:56 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 07:51 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Is this a 3 page thread about the Saudis killing a Saudi on Saudi soil in Turkey? Why does this concern the us? It's not like they through him off a roof or something for his sexual preference.

Eagle someone in the CIA is leaking to prove our President a LIAR.... that is extraordinary. It’s not the crime per se it’s the blatant lying about it.

Ugggghhhhhhhh

Then he needs to be arrest3d for his heroic act.

(12-02-2018 07:30 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Logic dictates that the U.S. would WANT to keep a good relationship with Saudi Arabia because they help further American interests as it pertains to ME policy in opposition to Iran, Syria and ISIS. If anyone is compromised it's the retards in the CIA who want to muddy the waters in an attempt to score cheap points against Trump.

Nauseatingly stupid that people fail to utilize their brains and apply critical thinking skills to the situation at hand. This is SIMPLE stuff. Also...as said already foreign dude killed by foreign gov't on foreign soil...

Why why why why why and WHY (!!!) do you fvcking people fail to remember all the alliances the U.S. had in the past with morally bankrupt regimes? Shah of Iran? Bautista in Cuba? Saddam Hussein before Gulf War 1? The Taliban in the 80s when Russia was in Afghanistan???

The USSR during the Second World War. Now, that was a dictator to end dictators and yet they were our friend in getting rid of another dictator, Hitler. Demons aren't too keen on history.

At least six journalist have been murdered in Mexico so far this year. Mexican journalist, killed by Mexicans, on Mexican soil.

Given this fact, I believe we should reprimand Mexico and as penalty halt all immigration from that country until those responsible are brought to justice.

I'm with you Mach, we have to punish these bad actors.

It’s not the action it’s the lying about it from Trump. You guys are incredibly bad at this. You want to make an issue about the action to deflect from the serial liar. That’s not my issue. My issue is how easily the President lies to the American people. Now in any reply do not bring up Obama or the Clinton’s. That is a whattabout defense and it’s the recourse of a second grader. Be better than our President and take responsibility for once. It’s ok to admit that he’s handled this poorly. Try it on for size. You might like the fit.

(12-03-2018 04:58 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It’s not the action it’s the lying about it from Trump. You guys are incredibly bad at this. You want to make an issue about the action to deflect from the serial liar. That’s not my issue. My issue is how easily the President lies to the American people. Now in any reply do not bring up Obama or the Clinton’s. That is a whattabout defense and it’s the recourse of a second grader. Be better than our President and take responsibility for once. It’s ok to admit that he’s handled this poorly. Try it on for size. You might like the fit.

The argument everyone is making is all politicians lie and the fact you’re holding the current president to ridiculous standards that you didn’t hold the last one to seems a bit hypocritical.

Mack, I think you are missing the alternative facts.

(12-02-2018 06:33 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 03:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-02-2018 09:45 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here’s the other thing I have noticed. You guys don’t like being called out for being hypocrites. Too bad. When you are being a hypocrite I am going to yell you that you are. When you have fallen under the spell of the anti christ I am going to be the shining light to guide you back onto the path of the righteous.

Sorry, it’s who I am.

Funny... you whine like a 2 year old when people take your personal attacks. This response makes it obvious that you admit that you attack people on this forum.

Yeah... people get tired of you (for at least 2 years now) claiming they have said or believe something that they demonstrably don't... yet you feel entitled to keep doing it.... and to whine like a child when you get called to the carpet for it.

(12-02-2018 10:50 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Trump and Company have lied repeatedly about it. No definitive link. This is why the CIA leaked this brilliant bullet.

Part of an embarrassingly long list of stupid things you've said.

Only a moron would betray his country in an effort to 'save it'... and a person stupid enough to do that is not to be believed in anything.... and the idea that we have Trump's supposed lies... AND we have 'the truth'... and yet the CIA can't find a link to demonstrate that he has lied??

That's perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever read.

You have said this bolded part before. Where did I say I attack people. Show this. You can’t. You are a person of low character that puts words in people’s mouths. Tell me something. When someone is in charge of policing an area. Should they themselves violate the rules. Just wondering. You have to make a decision Hambone. Either moderate or stop personally attacking people. Hold yourself to a higher standard. I abhor dealing with you. You are a person of such low character it disgusts me to even address you. I would never ask for your opinion. You mention whiskey in your coffee above. That’s the behavior of an alcoholic. I wouldn’t know about putting whiskey in coffee. That is a personal attack. People can’t hit you back because you will try to get them banned as you have tried with me repeatedly. You are a hypocritical disgusting human being who abuses power. I want nothing to do with you and I would appreciate it if you kept my name out of your mouth. Don’t converse with me. Don’t ask me of my opinions and don’t attack me. I will return the same gesture in kind. Hopefully this is the last time I ever respond to you. Complaining about someone whining. That is you in a nutshell. That is rich and a pure projection.

Even if you aren't embarrassed for how you act, I'm embarrassed for you. Get a grip man.

Why do Republicans hate the truth? Why do they hate America?

My impression cb is they care a lot more about ticking off liberals than other things. You see that on here a lot of times. They project a lot too.

Now imagine if we took that same approach. I hold the environment sacred. As the farmer holds clay and silt as he balls it up into his hand. That field is sacred. Life blood. I hold our environment the same way. What Trump is doing to the EPA and the right sits idly by or worse encourages and cheers the recklessness because it makes liberals upset??? I'm not going to forget that. When it's our turn at the wheel of govt. let's see how they react when we act the same way to things they hold sacred.

(12-03-2018 04:58 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It’s not the action it’s the lying about it from Trump. You guys are incredibly bad at this. You want to make an issue about the action to deflect from the serial liar. That’s not my issue. My issue is how easily the President lies to the American people. Now in any reply do not bring up Obama or the Clinton’s. That is a whattabout defense and it’s the recourse of a second grader. Be better than our President and take responsibility for once. It’s ok to admit that he’s handled this poorly. Try it on for size. You might like the fit.

Mach, claim "whatabout" all you want, but the point is very clear.

You are outraged that the right is not making a mountain out of every Trump molehill. But you personally engaged in exactly the same kind of whitewashing of repeated violations, illegalities, and lies by Clinton and Obama. Right here on this board. And we saw you.

The issue is not Trump, or Clinton, or Obama. It's you. You've let your partisanship run your good sense away.

Here's what troubles me. I simply don't get the visceral, irrational, emotional hatred of all things Trump, just as I never got the visceral, irrational, emotional hated by the right of all things Clinton.

Disagree on policies? Fine. But the bottom line there is that Trump, like Clinton, is really fairly moderate on policies, and is the kind of pragmatic deal-doer that you can work with to get things done, even when you don't agree on everything.

We have paid a heavy price because Newt and Bill didn't reprise the old Ike/LBJ/Mister Sam bourbon-and-branch sessions where they led the country despite partisanship. Hell, they could even have swapped girls' phone numbers and I'd have been okay with that. It would have been a lot more productive than Monicagate. We could have had Heritage/Bismarck universal health care 20 years ago and we could probably have gotten bin Laden long before 9/11 if they had worked together instead of at cross purposes.

And that's what bothers me most. We are in a world with some big issues and instead of working together we are sniping at Melania's Christmas trees. Enough if f-ing enough. Let's get together and start taking care of things. Before those things take care of us.