The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(11-14-2018 10:51 AM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 10:00 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Im not entirely sure you can put this completely on the players. This is a problem with effort, preparation and execution. If the coaches don't have these kids on the same page and understanding their roles.... understanding the fundamentals... understanding whats expected of them... they may just either be un-coachable or the coaching staff just can't seem to get through to them. There is plenty of talent on that defensive side of the ball to keep a team like BSU from putting up over 30pts on the board... Its the same issues every game... missed tackles, poor angles, atrocious coverage...

For example... BSU connected on a TD throw to a lone guy in the end zone who was surrounded by SIX freaking WMU players... all of whom looked like they weren't sure where they were supposed to be... They even pointed it out on the broadcast! Thats damning evidence for a team that isn't coached well... I saw multiple incidents of a WMU player crashing down on a guy only to take a bad angle and get run right around... thats fundamental breakdown right there. Thats COACHING. If you as a coach know you have guys out there struggling with simple fundamentals pull them out and coach them up! Problem we are seeing.... our staff can't coach these guys up... and thats a problem.

Steven's pointed that out a MILLION times to these f-tards. They're damn near uncoachable. Can't "coach someone up" if that player is a moron lazy POS.

Something else, after the Toledo game? Virtually NO ONE was in on the weekend to study film. Even for a little while; they were getting over the parties.

But, you don't know that. You just naturally assume the coaches suck. To be sure, some do. Matter of fact, I'll wager the DBs coach is gonna be looking for a job. But a lot of this D staff know what they're doing. Problem is these "players" have NO desire. And they don't give a damn about losing.

That is not a good sign. Sounds like DB's have waivered to their own world. Their play indicates that. 4 guys covering one ? Happened several times last several weeks. Not sure what poisoned the locker room but this D bears little resemblance to the team that started the season. We got burned by two P5 offenses but Ball State and Miami aren't P5 offenses by any means.

I liked the decision to go for the 2pt conversion.

The play call was a head scratcher. As I saw it there were three options - 1. give the ball to the back (which Eleby chose and was clearly the wrong decision). 2 Pull the ball and run on your own. 3. Pull the ball and throw it.

On the play, it looked like Eleby had the read with the end crashing down on the back but he was hesitant and left the ball in his belly with a late decision. It showed lack of experience and a lack of confidence in his read.

In the end, Lester made a play call that relied heavily on a true freshman QB making in his second start. But, that is where this team is. Swiss cheese defense and horrible special teams. Our best chance to win was Eleby (true fresh/2nd start) and that is the sad part.

(11-14-2018 01:18 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  I liked the decision to go for the 2pt conversion.

The play call was a head scratcher. As I saw it there were three options - 1. give the ball to the back (which Eleby chose and was clearly the wrong decision). 2 Pull the ball and run on your own. 3. Pull the ball and throw it.

On the play, it looked like Eleby had the read with the end crashing down on the back but he was hesitant and left the ball in his belly with a late decision. It showed lack of experience and a lack of confidence in his read.

In the end, Lester made a play call that relied heavily on a true freshman QB making in his second start. But, that is where this team is. Swiss cheese defense and horrible special teams. Our best chance to win was Eleby (true fresh/2nd start) and that is the sad part.

Agree 100%.

Here we go again. Blame it on the Freshman QB! Come on guys, enough is enough.
How about Ball State read the play and made the stop? The kid kept WMU in the game the entire 2nd half with big play after another. I'm starting to wonder if some of you are rooting for this kid to fail???

(11-14-2018 01:27 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 01:18 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  I liked the decision to go for the 2pt conversion.

The play call was a head scratcher. As I saw it there were three options - 1. give the ball to the back (which Eleby chose and was clearly the wrong decision). 2 Pull the ball and run on your own. 3. Pull the ball and throw it.

On the play, it looked like Eleby had the read with the end crashing down on the back but he was hesitant and left the ball in his belly with a late decision. It showed lack of experience and a lack of confidence in his read.

In the end, Lester made a play call that relied heavily on a true freshman QB making in his second start. But, that is where this team is. Swiss cheese defense and horrible special teams. Our best chance to win was Eleby (true fresh/2nd start) and that is the sad part.

Agree 100%.

(11-14-2018 01:18 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  I liked the decision to go for the 2pt conversion.

The play call was a head scratcher. As I saw it there were three options - 1. give the ball to the back (which Eleby chose and was clearly the wrong decision). 2 Pull the ball and run on your own. 3. Pull the ball and throw it.

On the play, it looked like Eleby had the read with the end crashing down on the back but he was hesitant and left the ball in his belly with a late decision. It showed lack of experience and a lack of confidence in his read.

In the end, Lester made a play call that relied heavily on a true freshman QB making in his second start. But, that is where this team is. Swiss cheese defense and horrible special teams. Our best chance to win was Eleby (true fresh/2nd start) and that is the sad part.

For sure it was the right call to go for two. That was our best chance to win the game at that point. I also hated the call. surprised we didn't have some special two point conversion play in our bag. Disappointing, but unfortunately, no longer surprising.

(11-14-2018 02:06 PM)scott357 Wrote:  Here we go again. Blame it on the Freshman QB! Come on guys, enough is enough.
How about Ball State read the play and made the stop? The kid kept WMU in the game the entire 2nd half with big play after another. I'm starting to wonder if some of you are rooting for this kid to fail???

(11-14-2018 01:27 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 01:18 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  I liked the decision to go for the 2pt conversion.

The play call was a head scratcher. As I saw it there were three options - 1. give the ball to the back (which Eleby chose and was clearly the wrong decision). 2 Pull the ball and run on your own. 3. Pull the ball and throw it.

On the play, it looked like Eleby had the read with the end crashing down on the back but he was hesitant and left the ball in his belly with a late decision. It showed lack of experience and a lack of confidence in his read.

In the end, Lester made a play call that relied heavily on a true freshman QB making in his second start. But, that is where this team is. Swiss cheese defense and horrible special teams. Our best chance to win was Eleby (true fresh/2nd start) and that is the sad part.

Agree 100%.

Look, Mrs. Eleby, or Mr. Eleby, or Kaleb's girlfriend or personal friend, he's gonna be fine, but it's extremely rare for true freshman to go out there and look like Joe Montana. QBs have the top spot and have to lead to victory and shoulder defeats. They will uniquely be receiving praise and blame even if they don't deserve it.

This isn't exactly a forum filled with guys who have rose-colored glasses. I've not seen one comment in here suggest Eleby isn't going to be a darn good starting QB at this school. If anything, they've been a little more positive than reality suggests.

Quote:scott357 Wrote:
Here we go again. Blame it on the Freshman QB! Come on guys, enough is enough.
How about Ball State read the play and made the stop? The kid kept WMU in the game the entire 2nd half with big play after another. I'm starting to wonder if some of you are rooting for this kid to fail???

Dear Mrs Eleby - I thought Kaleb played a good game. In fact he was one of the bright spots for our beloved Broncos. We are fortunate to count him as one of our own.

On the two point play specifically, the Ball State defense did make a good read. In fact it was almost like they expected the WMU offense to run this exact play call. Kaleb was certainly put in a difficult position. One in which a freshman making his second start probably should not have been in. But, he was our best option to win the game. We came up just a little short. I don't blame Kaleb for losing the game.

Please tell Kaleb that we are all rooting for him and his future success on and off the field.

Quote:surprised we didn't have some special two point conversion play in our bag.

Exactly. A 2 point conversion play is special, you don't have the space to move and it's a one shot deal. So it has to be a deception play. Send all 3 WRers into the end zone along with the TE and the RB. The OL has to hold their blocks only 2-3 seconds 90% of the time, so you're not asking too much from them. If the other side blitzes LBers or Safety's it opens up at least one receiver who will be IN the end zone by the time the pass arrives. It's a timing/position play.

You don't use the same play you've been using on first and 10 at the 40 yard line, even if it's been working much of the time-and the hand off to our RB was working well much of the time-UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES. But a 2 point conversion has to work the first time, you get no second chance. Power running up the gut just doesn't cut it at this level, the players react too fast.

I don't blame Eleby, he should never have been put in the spot to make the call on an option play. Wassink maybe, not a freshman QB. The play was inappropriate for those circumstances, it had a poor chance at success.

Very interesting reply! You obviously don't get it. It's NOT about Eleby personally, but rather placing the blame on the Freshman QB. Coach Lester made the first step in firing his defensive coach. If you go back and read several of my posts I've always said the DEFENSE is the main culprit. I've also stated that Mussat and Rector should be playing to gain experience like Eleby. To go a step further I've stated that I think Eleby will probably jump ship and we need to be prepared because of the Goddard situation that took place last year. With Wassink being injury prone and going down two years straight, Eleby will most likely not want to sit next year. This is why I say the Wassink era should be over. Talented kids have options and other schools would be quick to jump on a player of Eleby's caliber. Why even take that chance again? Let Mussat and Rector play this last game and recruit two more dual threat QB's. If Lester is willing to sacrifice Wassink with the possibly of Eleby jumping ship he better be out there RECRUITING QB's Make sense?

(11-14-2018 03:01 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 02:06 PM)scott357 Wrote:  Here we go again. Blame it on the Freshman QB! Come on guys, enough is enough.
How about Ball State read the play and made the stop? The kid kept WMU in the game the entire 2nd half with big play after another. I'm starting to wonder if some of you are rooting for this kid to fail???

(11-14-2018 01:27 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 01:18 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  I liked the decision to go for the 2pt conversion.

The play call was a head scratcher. As I saw it there were three options - 1. give the ball to the back (which Eleby chose and was clearly the wrong decision). 2 Pull the ball and run on your own. 3. Pull the ball and throw it.

On the play, it looked like Eleby had the read with the end crashing down on the back but he was hesitant and left the ball in his belly with a late decision. It showed lack of experience and a lack of confidence in his read.

In the end, Lester made a play call that relied heavily on a true freshman QB making in his second start. But, that is where this team is. Swiss cheese defense and horrible special teams. Our best chance to win was Eleby (true fresh/2nd start) and that is the sad part.

Agree 100%.

Look, Mrs. Eleby, or Mr. Eleby, or Kaleb's girlfriend or personal friend, he's gonna be fine, but it's extremely rare for true freshman to go out there and look like Joe Montana. QBs have the top spot and have to lead to victory and shoulder defeats. They will uniquely be receiving praise and blame even if they don't deserve it.

This isn't exactly a forum filled with guys who have rose-colored glasses. I've not seen one comment in here suggest Eleby isn't going to be a darn good starting QB at this school. If anything, they've been a little more positive than reality suggests.

(11-15-2018 08:59 AM)scott357 Wrote:  Very interesting reply! You obviously don't get it. It's NOT about Eleby personally, but rather placing the blame on the Freshman QB. Coach Lester made the first step in firing his defensive coach. If you go back and read several of my posts I've always said the DEFENSE is the main culprit. I've also stated that Mussat and Rector should be playing to gain experience like Eleby. To go a step further I've stated that I think Eleby will probably jump ship and we need to be prepared because of the Goddard situation that took place last year. With Wassink being injury prone and going down two years straight, Eleby will most likely not want to sit next year. This is why I say the Wassink era should be over. Talented kids have options and other schools would be quick to jump on a player of Eleby's caliber. Why even take that chance again? Let Mussat and Rector play this last game and recruit two more dual threat QB's. If Lester is willing to sacrifice Wassink with the possibly of Eleby jumping ship he better be out there RECRUITING QB's Make sense?

(11-14-2018 03:01 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 02:06 PM)scott357 Wrote:  Here we go again. Blame it on the Freshman QB! Come on guys, enough is enough.
How about Ball State read the play and made the stop? The kid kept WMU in the game the entire 2nd half with big play after another. I'm starting to wonder if some of you are rooting for this kid to fail???

(11-14-2018 01:27 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 01:18 PM)DrDavis Wrote:  I liked the decision to go for the 2pt conversion.

The play call was a head scratcher. As I saw it there were three options - 1. give the ball to the back (which Eleby chose and was clearly the wrong decision). 2 Pull the ball and run on your own. 3. Pull the ball and throw it.

On the play, it looked like Eleby had the read with the end crashing down on the back but he was hesitant and left the ball in his belly with a late decision. It showed lack of experience and a lack of confidence in his read.

In the end, Lester made a play call that relied heavily on a true freshman QB making in his second start. But, that is where this team is. Swiss cheese defense and horrible special teams. Our best chance to win was Eleby (true fresh/2nd start) and that is the sad part.

Agree 100%.

Look, Mrs. Eleby, or Mr. Eleby, or Kaleb's girlfriend or personal friend, he's gonna be fine, but it's extremely rare for true freshman to go out there and look like Joe Montana. QBs have the top spot and have to lead to victory and shoulder defeats. They will uniquely be receiving praise and blame even if they don't deserve it.

This isn't exactly a forum filled with guys who have rose-colored glasses. I've not seen one comment in here suggest Eleby isn't going to be a darn good starting QB at this school. If anything, they've been a little more positive than reality suggests.

Benching your best QB to placate a young backup is a fast ticket to the unemployment line.

(11-15-2018 09:32 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  Benching your best QB to placate a young backup is a fast ticket to the unemployment line.

That's the rub, isn't it? I'm not sure who the "best" QB is. I know who the most effective is, at this point. Well, save for the fact he's in a boot. I feel like having Wassink in for the 2pt conversion would have given us a better chance based on his ability to read and pull. The designed roll-outs and ability to make a move would have opened up a lot of options. Eleby just isn't there, yet.

I did start to get the impression that he (Eleby) feels far more comfortable and looks more fluid when his feet are moving. I was encouraged that he started to use the pocket more and feel free to scramble instead of just rooting to the ground taking sacks or throwing picks. There were definitely some bad reads and decisions. He has the physical tools to be everything that this offense/team could need going forward. He does appear a little shell-shocked at times, but he has been a college athlete for all of 3 or 4 months. Wassink has already graduated. The experience level is so different, you just don't know his mental ceiling.

(11-15-2018 09:59 AM)AFLAGWA Wrote:  

(11-15-2018 09:32 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  Benching your best QB to placate a young backup is a fast ticket to the unemployment line.

That's the rub, isn't it? I'm not sure who the "best" QB is. I know who the most effective is, at this point. Well, save for the fact he's in a boot. I feel like having Wassink in for the 2pt conversion would have given us a better chance based on his ability to read and pull. The designed roll-outs and ability to make a move would have opened up a lot of options. Eleby just isn't there, yet.

I did start to get the impression that he (Eleby) feels far more comfortable and looks more fluid when his feet are moving. I was encouraged that he started to use the pocket more and feel free to scramble instead of just rooting to the ground taking sacks or throwing picks. There were definitely some bad reads and decisions. He has the physical tools to be everything that this offense/team could need going forward. He does appear a little shell-shocked at times, but he has been a college athlete for all of 3 or 4 months. Wassink has already graduated. The experience level is so different, you just don't know his mental ceiling.

The most effective QB you have at the moment is your best QB.

I sure hope you guys are correct on this one!

(11-15-2018 10:02 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(11-15-2018 09:59 AM)AFLAGWA Wrote:  

(11-15-2018 09:32 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  Benching your best QB to placate a young backup is a fast ticket to the unemployment line.

That's the rub, isn't it? I'm not sure who the "best" QB is. I know who the most effective is, at this point. Well, save for the fact he's in a boot. I feel like having Wassink in for the 2pt conversion would have given us a better chance based on his ability to read and pull. The designed roll-outs and ability to make a move would have opened up a lot of options. Eleby just isn't there, yet.

I did start to get the impression that he (Eleby) feels far more comfortable and looks more fluid when his feet are moving. I was encouraged that he started to use the pocket more and feel free to scramble instead of just rooting to the ground taking sacks or throwing picks. There were definitely some bad reads and decisions. He has the physical tools to be everything that this offense/team could need going forward. He does appear a little shell-shocked at times, but he has been a college athlete for all of 3 or 4 months. Wassink has already graduated. The experience level is so different, you just don't know his mental ceiling.

The most effective QB you have at the moment is your best QB.

The one constant with the WMU program over the last 30 years is effective QB's. I can only think of a couple that did not fit this bill.

- B.T from 89-92 comes to mind- 5th on WMU's all time yardage list but threw way too many interceptions. 67 interceptions for a career, 25 in a season and 6 in one game. The 2001 to 2003 era with J.D. also comes to mind.

I am not counting the backups - the Reece Goddard's and Blayne Baggett of the past.

With that said, I am not too concerned should Eleby leave. He can have real and significant success here.

Next Jeff Welsh or Alex Carder up.

The QB had a check option before the snap he didn't use it. Mark it down as 18 year old on ESPN, Freshmen jitters, etc. Doesn't matter now it was learning experience for him and Lester. Move on. I might be minority but actually think we have good chance to knock off NIU. NIU is locked into Ford Field and bowl game. We aren't locked into anything and the defense just got a wake up call. The DC lost his players plain and simple. All this insider info is cute but knee jerk reactions happen light speed fast on message boards.

I think NIU's lock on the MACC may soften the blow and minimize their victory gap, but that's about the extent of it. So, something like 34-10 instead of 51-6.

We're not going to have that sort of turnaround in 7 days, both in talent and mindset, to go from losing to 3-win Balls to beating the MAC West champ.