(08-06-2018 10:32 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The answers lie within.

Mach, the answers lie with my unadulterated excitement that Trump is everything I want an American president to be: anti-establishment, brash, un-failingly pro-American, and an rolling back regulatory overreach, tax hikes, and a hostile business environment.

So whatever RUSSIA! is there is not important to me, a middle-aged Normal American tax-payer trying to raise a family in fly-over country.

And, a hell of a lot of Normal Americans feel exactly the same way I do. And they vote.

(08-06-2018 10:39 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The ends justify the means is a horrible way to govern and to generally live life. You have sold out your belief structure and basic dignity to get judges????? Is that worth it?


If Trump was a Democrat I guarantee you that there would be Democratic votes to impeach. What he has done is traitorous. Stop the witch hunt is obstruction. When will you stand up for what is right. When will you stand up for the truth. A basic universal truth. Evil wins when good men stand by silently. Let your conscience be your guide. You will see this for what it is.

For what exactly? Legally speaking of course. Please don't spout MSM talking points. They have been coming since the election with no proof and nothing proven.

I’ve posted the conspiracy statute at least twice already. He is working and under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary. He has pushed and advocated for reduced sanctions on Russia. The very famous act of influencing a plank out of the RNC meeting in Cleveland is well documented. That is the actions of a traitor.

Specifically an instance. Now process that.

My question is. When do good men stand and make right. He has denied the collusion for years. The obstruction on closing down the “witch hunt”. When will good men stand?

(08-06-2018 10:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I’ve posted the conspiracy statute at least twice already. He is working and under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary. He has pushed and advocated for reduced sanctions on Russia. The very famous act of influencing a plank out of the RNC meeting in Cleveland is well documented. That is the actions of a traitor.

Specifically an instance. Now process that.

My question is. When do good men stand and make right. He has denied the collusion for years. The obstruction on closing down the “witch hunt”. When will good men stand?

Conspiracy statue? Does that hold up in a court of law? lol, it's very name has the word "conspiracy" in it.

Anyone else getting tired of watching Tom and Mach diddle each other while munching on nothingburgers?

(08-06-2018 10:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I’ve posted the conspiracy statute at least twice already. He is working and under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary. He has pushed and advocated for reduced sanctions on Russia. The very famous act of influencing a plank out of the RNC meeting in Cleveland is well documented. That is the actions of a traitor.

Specifically an instance. Now process that.

My question is. When do good men stand and make right. He has denied the collusion for years. The obstruction on closing down the “witch hunt”. When will good men stand?

So was Obama working under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary when he reduced sanctions on Iran and dumped them pallets of money in the middle of the night? How about when he eased sanctions on Sudan that had been in place for a decade because of their "positive actions" over a 6 month period despite their continued status as a state sponsor of terrorism? How about when he lifted the Myanmar sanctions? It's easy to play this game.

Now tell me what Obama received in return for easing sanctions? Absolutely nothing. There is no law against a president easing or eliminating sanctions as a 'reward' or as part of a larger agreement. If you understood that simple fact you would know that Trump talking about easing sanctions isn't traitorous.

Good men are standing, you just don't like that they aren't on the liberal's side.

(08-06-2018 10:19 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-06-2018 09:57 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I dont get the left's logic on this one.

Here's what we know:
Don Trump jr. attended a meeting at Trump tower initated by a third party at the request of a russian lawyer that would supposedly provide official documents from the russian crown prosecutor regarding illegal campaign activities by Hillary donors in Russia. At the meeting, the Russian lawyer, who is connected to Fusion GPS, allegedly talked about adoptions and Don Trump, jr. walked away with nothing.

How is any of that a crime? Receiving evidence of the crimes of another is not itself a crime. If it was then Woodward and Bernstein would be locked up for exposing watergate. There is no evidence the meeting dealt with hacked DNC emails. And most importantly there was no agreement to do anything which would be necessary to prove any type of conspiracy case.

A problem is that is your characterization of the meeting was provided by a side that has lied about the existence, location, and content of the meeting REPEATEDLY and has been proved wrong time and time again. Furthermore, the people lying about the meeting did so deliberately.

Dishonesty, while a crime in the big book of morals isnt against federal statues. Is there anyone who can testify (and is willing to do so) as to a specific agrrement being reached to engage in criminal conduct. To my knowledge there is not.

Another problem is that this wasn't the only meeting between Russia and Trump officials.

Bad optics, I agree, but nothing illegal about it and if you are developing foreign policy not completely out of the norm either.

Another problem is that Trump, AFTER that meeting, publicly asked for Russia to intervene by leaking the stolen property on his behalf

The speech was obviously a rhetorical device used to bash his opponent.

Another problem is that the data leaked wasn't Crown Prosecution documents, but stolen data.

That weighs against a claim of conspiracy actually. Trump jr. was going to be offered crown prosecutor documents of illegal DNC donor activities. The fact that different information, which was not offered to Trump jr., was leaked doesnt help prove conspiracy.

Another problem was the intervention on the Republican platform on Russia's behalf on Crimea. Watch out for this one.

It was a very sensible foreign policy decision, but theortically could be used as part of a conspiracy case. You'd just need 99% of the rest of the conspiracy for it to matter. By itself it is nothing.

And we haven't even gotten to the money yet.
What money?

My comments in bold.

(08-06-2018 08:27 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ohhhhhhh gawd. One Steele is not from a hostile foreign power. Two the research was started and funded by Republicans......... come to grips with those two things. You have t yet.


And Owl. Quit parsing words. No collusion is not a legal statute but you know what is? Conspiracy and if they met to get dirt on Clinton and if that dirt was used. Donald Trump Jr. is in legal jeopardy. Cut and dried conspiracy case.

What “dirt”?

That podestas an idiot and they rigged the primaries against the Bern and tried to fix the election, too?

Like an insurance policy you take out In case you die before 4?

(08-06-2018 10:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I’ve posted the conspiracy statute at least twice already. He is working and under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary. He has pushed and advocated for reduced sanctions on Russia. The very famous act of influencing a plank out of the RNC meeting in Cleveland is well documented. That is the actions of a traitor.

Specifically an instance. Now process that.

My question is. When do good men stand and make right. He has denied the collusion for years. The obstruction on closing down the “witch hunt”. When will good men stand?

Thanks Matlock. I'm buckled up.

(08-06-2018 11:04 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-06-2018 10:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I’ve posted the conspiracy statute at least twice already. He is working and under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary. He has pushed and advocated for reduced sanctions on Russia. The very famous act of influencing a plank out of the RNC meeting in Cleveland is well documented. That is the actions of a traitor.

Specifically an instance. Now process that.

My question is. When do good men stand and make right. He has denied the collusion for years. The obstruction on closing down the “witch hunt”. When will good men stand?

So was Obama working under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary when he reduced sanctions on Iran and dumped them pallets of money in the middle of the night? How about when he eased sanctions on Sudan that had been in place for a decade because of their "positive actions" over a 6 month period despite their continued status as a state sponsor of terrorism? How about when he lifted the Myanmar sanctions? It's easy to play this game.

Now tell me what Obama received in return for easing sanctions? Absolutely nothing. There is no law against a president easing or eliminating sanctions as a 'reward' or as part of a larger agreement. If you understood that simple fact you would know that Trump talking about easing sanctions isn't traitorous.

Good men are standing, you just don't like that they aren't on the liberal's side.

If Iran gave him hacked stolen “ opposition research “ you might have a case.

(08-06-2018 10:16 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(08-06-2018 09:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-06-2018 08:28 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  No Donald they would not. Those who are morally unfit for office would attend that type of meeting. After Helsinki only your most ardent supporters believe your lies.

You can bet your ass that any Clinton would or Obama would. Maybe not Jimmy Carter, but he's about the only one I can think of, and he was a pretty horrible president.

Expecting any politician to be a moral paragon is unrealistic. Keep the country safe and keep the economy going is about all we can expect. Bill Clinton was no saint, but he did those things.

Moral relativism at its finest. The Clinton’s would have done it so should we. Take a step back and realize what you are saying and supporting. You have become unmoored. You DO NOT take a hostile foreign nations hacked dirt for opposition research. It’s an absolute insane ledge to stand on, but it’s your only defensive position because you have laid in bed with a dog. Now you have to deal with the fleas.

If you’re this head over heels about the Drumpf, you’re REALLY gonna hate President Pence...

You guys have already demonstrated that the ends justify the means. How do you argue with that? Trump could literally kill someone on 5th street in Manhattan and you guys would say. That murder was for Gorsuch. We got Gorsuch. It’s just one guy. Trump knows this. He has stated as such. It’s your mindset that has to change. The rule of law is the rule of law. It matters.

For the third time:

18 U.S. Code § 371 - Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States
US Code
Notes
prev | next
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

(08-06-2018 11:20 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(08-06-2018 11:04 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(08-06-2018 10:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I’ve posted the conspiracy statute at least twice already. He is working and under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary. He has pushed and advocated for reduced sanctions on Russia. The very famous act of influencing a plank out of the RNC meeting in Cleveland is well documented. That is the actions of a traitor.

Specifically an instance. Now process that.

My question is. When do good men stand and make right. He has denied the collusion for years. The obstruction on closing down the “witch hunt”. When will good men stand?

So was Obama working under the influence of a hostile foreign adversary when he reduced sanctions on Iran and dumped them pallets of money in the middle of the night? How about when he eased sanctions on Sudan that had been in place for a decade because of their "positive actions" over a 6 month period despite their continued status as a state sponsor of terrorism? How about when he lifted the Myanmar sanctions? It's easy to play this game.

Now tell me what Obama received in return for easing sanctions? Absolutely nothing. There is no law against a president easing or eliminating sanctions as a 'reward' or as part of a larger agreement. If you understood that simple fact you would know that Trump talking about easing sanctions isn't traitorous.

Good men are standing, you just don't like that they aren't on the liberal's side.

If Iran gave him hacked stolen “ opposition research “ you might have a case.

That's Rich. Oh, and you really think that if Mueller didn't already have proof that Trump received "hacked stolen opposition research" he wouldn't be going after Trump rather than Manafort?

(08-06-2018 11:24 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You guys have already demonstrated that the ends justify the means. How do you argue with that. Trump could literally kill someone on 5th street in Manhattan and you guys would say. For such. We got Gorsuch. It’s just one guy. Trump knows this. He has stayed as such. It’s your mindset that has to change. The rule of law is the rule of law. It matters.

Mach, you need to get a grip. You're shouting at clouds. We're two years into Trump being investigated from a-hole to appetite and there's still NOTHING there. NOTHING.

Trump's not going to be impeached, the dims won't regain control of either House in the midterms, and the country will continue to function long after Trump's completed his second term. Accept it, embrace it. You'll be a better man for it.

(08-06-2018 11:27 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  For the third time:

18 U.S. Code § 371 - Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States
US Code
Notes
prev | next
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

You could also post the statute against murder. Neither have been demonstrated to come close to applying to the election or Trump.

(08-06-2018 11:27 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  For the third time:

18 U.S. Code § 371 - Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States
US Code
Notes
prev | next
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

Great. When is the trial?

Can we get back to the topic of Trump banging playboy bunnies.

Russia is boring again

(08-06-2018 10:30 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Trump is the president and he is doing great things for this country. Let me line out just a sampling:

Trump reverses Obama's executive orders and burdensome regulations on businesses.
He approved the Keystone XL pipeline.
He cut taxes and the economy picked up steam.
The Obamacare individual mandate was repealed in the tax-cut bill.
Trump has proven to be pro-religious liberty, pro-life and pro-Israel.
He pulled out of the Paris climate agreement and the Trans-Pacific Partnership
He began negotiations to denuclearize North Korea. I support all of these policies.
Judges. Judges judges judges.

So harp on a meeting with a Russian all ya'll want.

Yup.

I really don’t give a schit about “Trump”, I give a schit about what he’s done and what he’s doing.

It could be Donald Duck or Ronald McDonald and if they worked as hard and tirelessly as he does, doing significant things to help improve the lot in life for many people and businesses in many ways, I would support them too.

Admittedly it’s not as groundbreaking as getting dudes in dresses into foxholes, but I’ll take it.

/shrugs

(08-06-2018 11:27 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  For the third time:
18 U.S. Code § 371 - Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States
US Code
Notes
prev | next
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

Quoting a statute doesn't mean that it occurred. You need facts for that. Where are they?

Who conspired with whom to do what? And what act or acts were done to effect the object of that conspiracy?