To hear the hype, even from our own coach, it is terribly hard to get to the final four unless you are in a P5 conference.

Nothing could be further from the truth

Since 2000, 31 schools have been represented in the final four.
10 of those from non P5 schools, ourselves included. Or, 32%

There have been 9 schools to appear at least 3 times in the last 18 years, 2 of those (at the time) were not P5 schools (Louisville now is)

If you subtract the perennial favorites (those 9) that leaves 22 schools, 8 of which are nonP5, Or, 36%.
All inclusive, if you are P5 and not a perennial favorite, your chances are 29%.

Therefore, a nonP5 school has a better chance than a P5 school that is not one of the Duke's, Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. Michigan State was the winner with 5 appearances if you were wondering.

Which means to me that in a P5 league like the ACC, Wake Forest having to fight through Louisville, North Carolina and Duke, and Virginia, etc makes it extremely difficult for you to get a high seed, play at home (like Duke and UNC always do), and get to the final four. A Gonzaga type school or even a Memphis, if they have assembled the team, has a much easier road to a high seed and a final four.

In conclusion, shut up about the P5 thing in college basketball, it makes no sense.

(03-11-2018 02:28 PM)cmt Wrote:  To hear the hype, even from our own coach, it is terribly hard to get to the final four unless you are in a P5 conference.

Nothing could be further from the truth

Since 2000, 31 schools have been represented in the final four.
10 of those from non P5 schools, ourselves included. Or, 32%

There have been 9 schools to appear at least 3 times in the last 18 years, 2 of those (at the time) were not P5 schools (Louisville now is)

If you subtract the perennial favorites (those 9) that leaves 22 schools, 8 of which are nonP5, Or, 36%.
All inclusive, if you are P5 and not a perennial favorite, your chances are 29%.

Therefore, a nonP5 school has a better chance than a P5 school that is not one of the Duke's, Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. Michigan State was the winner with 5 appearances if you were wondering.

Which means to me that in a P5 league like the ACC, Wake Forest having to fight through Louisville, North Carolina and Duke, and Virginia, etc makes it extremely difficult for you to get a high seed, play at home (like Duke and UNC always do), and get to the final four. A Gonzaga type school or even a Memphis, if they have assembled the team, has a much easier road to a high seed and a final four.

In conclusion, shut up about the P5 thing in college basketball, it makes no sense.

have you ever coached a Div1 team?

If you did you would know that winning is hard
Memphis fans have too high expectations
Tubby is AHEAD of schedule
Memphis cannot recruit good players

this is the bull**** that has been fed this fanbase for 7 or 8 years...

What I know is what Henry Ford said:

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't – you're right,”

Villanova and Xavier both 1 seeds...get out of here with that mess.

2017- Gonzaga runner up
2016- Villanova champ
2015- none

2014- UConn National champ
2013-Louisville National champ
2012 UConn and Louisville Final Four
2011- UConn (champ)VCU, Butler (runner up)
2010-Butler runner up
2009- UConn Villanova
2008- Memphis
2007- Georgetown
2006- George Mason

Please, Tubby, tell us again how it’s impossible for a non Power5 school to make the Final Four or win a championship. You’d think a “HOF” coach would be more knowledgeable about the sport that is is supposedly elite level.

(03-11-2018 02:28 PM)cmt Wrote:  To hear the hype, even from our own coach, it is terribly hard to get to the final four unless you are in a P5 conference.

Nothing could be further from the truth

Since 2000, 31 schools have been represented in the final four.
10 of those from non P5 schools, ourselves included. Or, 32%

There have been 9 schools to appear at least 3 times in the last 18 years, 2 of those (at the time) were not P5 schools (Louisville now is)

If you subtract the perennial favorites (those 9) that leaves 22 schools, 8 of which are nonP5, Or, 36%.
All inclusive, if you are P5 and not a perennial favorite, your chances are 29%.

Therefore, a nonP5 school has a better chance than a P5 school that is not one of the Duke's, Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. Michigan State was the winner with 5 appearances if you were wondering.

Which means to me that in a P5 league like the ACC, Wake Forest having to fight through Louisville, North Carolina and Duke, and Virginia, etc makes it extremely difficult for you to get a high seed, play at home (like Duke and UNC always do), and get to the final four. A Gonzaga type school or even a Memphis, if they have assembled the team, has a much easier road to a high seed and a final four.

In conclusion, shut up about the P5 thing in college basketball, it makes no sense.

Numbers are right.

But...you do not factor in that there are a lot more non P5 schools. Just using your numbers, 30% of the schools in the Final Four are non P5 of late.

But, not 30% of all the spots, as other than Butker no school has been more than once in your time frame, so spots are less than 30... and, more importantly, there are 64 P5 schools which there are something close to 300 non. So about 20% of the schools get about 80% of the spots.

The Big East should count in basketball, and really now, so should the AAC. While we are down a short is UConn, the conference has Cincinnati, UConn, Wichita State, Memphis and Temple. Pretty good stuff.

(03-11-2018 06:49 PM)Mimi Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:28 PM)cmt Wrote:  To hear the hype, even from our own coach, it is terribly hard to get to the final four unless you are in a P5 conference.

Nothing could be further from the truth

Since 2000, 31 schools have been represented in the final four.
10 of those from non P5 schools, ourselves included. Or, 32%

There have been 9 schools to appear at least 3 times in the last 18 years, 2 of those (at the time) were not P5 schools (Louisville now is)

If you subtract the perennial favorites (those 9) that leaves 22 schools, 8 of which are nonP5, Or, 36%.
All inclusive, if you are P5 and not a perennial favorite, your chances are 29%.

Therefore, a nonP5 school has a better chance than a P5 school that is not one of the Duke's, Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. Michigan State was the winner with 5 appearances if you were wondering.

Which means to me that in a P5 league like the ACC, Wake Forest having to fight through Louisville, North Carolina and Duke, and Virginia, etc makes it extremely difficult for you to get a high seed, play at home (like Duke and UNC always do), and get to the final four. A Gonzaga type school or even a Memphis, if they have assembled the team, has a much easier road to a high seed and a final four.

In conclusion, shut up about the P5 thing in college basketball, it makes no sense.

Numbers are right.

But...you do not factor in that there are a lot more non P5 schools. Just using your numbers, 30% of the schools in the Final Four are non P5 of late.

But, not 30% of all the spots, as other than Butker no school has been more than once in your time frame, so spots are less than 30... and, more importantly, there are 64 P5 schools which there are something close to 300 non. So about 20% of the schools get about 80% of the spots.

Well, you can play with the numbers any way you want. Fully one third of the teams in the final four are from nonP5 schools. Plus, the blue bloods take up a lot of room whichever side o the railroad tracks you're on.

My point being it is easier for Gonzaga or Memphis or Xavier to get a good seed and advance to the final four than 80% of the P5 schools given equal talent.

The final four is a tough nut to crack and top nonP5 schools can there easier than say, Mississippi or Wake Forest simply because of conference schedule and therefore better records and higher seeding. I am not trying to say it is easier for Alabama A&M than Mississippi State, but it is easier for Wichita State than Kansas State.

(03-11-2018 06:26 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  2017- Gonzaga runner up
2016- Villanova champ
2015- none

2014- UConn National champ
2013-Louisville National champ
2012 UConn and Louisville Final Four
2011- UConn (champ)VCU, Butler (runner up)
2010-Butler runner up
2009- UConn Villanova
2008- Memphis
2007- Georgetown
2006- George Mason

Please, Tubby, tell us again how it’s impossible for a non Power5 school to make the Final Four or win a championship. You’d think a “HOF” coach would be more knowledgeable about the sport that is is supposedly elite level.

Enough said.

(03-11-2018 07:03 PM)cmt Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:49 PM)Mimi Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:28 PM)cmt Wrote:  To hear the hype, even from our own coach, it is terribly hard to get to the final four unless you are in a P5 conference.

Nothing could be further from the truth

Since 2000, 31 schools have been represented in the final four.
10 of those from non P5 schools, ourselves included. Or, 32%

There have been 9 schools to appear at least 3 times in the last 18 years, 2 of those (at the time) were not P5 schools (Louisville now is)

If you subtract the perennial favorites (those 9) that leaves 22 schools, 8 of which are nonP5, Or, 36%.
All inclusive, if you are P5 and not a perennial favorite, your chances are 29%.

Therefore, a nonP5 school has a better chance than a P5 school that is not one of the Duke's, Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. Michigan State was the winner with 5 appearances if you were wondering.

Which means to me that in a P5 league like the ACC, Wake Forest having to fight through Louisville, North Carolina and Duke, and Virginia, etc makes it extremely difficult for you to get a high seed, play at home (like Duke and UNC always do), and get to the final four. A Gonzaga type school or even a Memphis, if they have assembled the team, has a much easier road to a high seed and a final four.

In conclusion, shut up about the P5 thing in college basketball, it makes no sense.

Numbers are right.

But...you do not factor in that there are a lot more non P5 schools. Just using your numbers, 30% of the schools in the Final Four are non P5 of late.

But, not 30% of all the spots, as other than Butker no school has been more than once in your time frame, so spots are less than 30... and, more importantly, there are 64 P5 schools which there are something close to 300 non. So about 20% of the schools get about 80% of the spots.

Well, you can play with the numbers any way you want. Fully one third of the teams in the final four are from nonP5 schools. Plus, the blue bloods take up a lot of room whichever side o the railroad tracks you're on.

My point being it is easier for Gonzaga or Memphis or Xavier to get a good seed and advance to the final four than 80% of the P5 schools given equal talent.

The final four is a tough nut to crack and top nonP5 schools can there easier than say, Mississippi or Wake Forest simply because of conference schedule and therefore better records and higher seeding. I am not trying to say it is easier for Alabama A&M than Mississippi State, but it is easier for Wichita State than Kansas State.

So what you're saying is that numbers are good when they agree with your point, but numbers are bad when they don't agree with your point. Wow. Brilliant. Talking out the side of your neck.

Right.

In reality, you are either a major basketball school or you are not.

There are more major basketball schools in the P5 conferences but there are certainly some not.

Current stretch notwithstanding, Memphis is clearly a major basketball program. As is Gonzaga and a handful of others.

So the conclusion is that better basketball schools have a greater chance.

Now THAT is deep.

(03-11-2018 04:02 PM)TigerSeth Wrote:  Villanova and Xavier both 1 seeds...get out of here with that mess.

That is a joke. Corrupt to the core. MTSU watching. Corrupt to the core.

(03-11-2018 06:26 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  2017- Gonzaga runner up
2016- Villanova champ
2015- none

2014- UConn National champ
2013-Louisville National champ
2012 UConn and Louisville Final Four
2011- UConn (champ)VCU, Butler (runner up)
2010-Butler runner up
2009- UConn Villanova
2008- Memphis
2007- Georgetown
2006- George Mason

Please, Tubby, tell us again how it’s impossible for a non Power5 school to make the Final Four or win a championship. You’d think a “HOF” coach would be more knowledgeable about the sport that is is supposedly elite level.

Do not forget that in basketball there is a P6. As the Big East is still considered a part of the big 6

(03-11-2018 07:57 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 04:02 PM)TigerSeth Wrote:  Villanova and Xavier both 1 seeds...get out of here with that mess.

That is a joke. Corrupt to the core. MTSU watching. Corrupt to the core.

Have always said that all teams should be assigned a random ID number and the committee only gets to look at the stats without knowing the name of the school.

Take conference tournament winners out of the mix and select all the at large based on anonymous stats.

(03-11-2018 07:36 PM)DoomHaynesJr Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:03 PM)cmt Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:49 PM)Mimi Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:28 PM)cmt Wrote:  To hear the hype, even from our own coach, it is terribly hard to get to the final four unless you are in a P5 conference.

Nothing could be further from the truth

Since 2000, 31 schools have been represented in the final four.
10 of those from non P5 schools, ourselves included. Or, 32%

There have been 9 schools to appear at least 3 times in the last 18 years, 2 of those (at the time) were not P5 schools (Louisville now is)

If you subtract the perennial favorites (those 9) that leaves 22 schools, 8 of which are nonP5, Or, 36%.
All inclusive, if you are P5 and not a perennial favorite, your chances are 29%.

Therefore, a nonP5 school has a better chance than a P5 school that is not one of the Duke's, Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. Michigan State was the winner with 5 appearances if you were wondering.

Which means to me that in a P5 league like the ACC, Wake Forest having to fight through Louisville, North Carolina and Duke, and Virginia, etc makes it extremely difficult for you to get a high seed, play at home (like Duke and UNC always do), and get to the final four. A Gonzaga type school or even a Memphis, if they have assembled the team, has a much easier road to a high seed and a final four.

In conclusion, shut up about the P5 thing in college basketball, it makes no sense.

Numbers are right.

But...you do not factor in that there are a lot more non P5 schools. Just using your numbers, 30% of the schools in the Final Four are non P5 of late.

But, not 30% of all the spots, as other than Butker no school has been more than once in your time frame, so spots are less than 30... and, more importantly, there are 64 P5 schools which there are something close to 300 non. So about 20% of the schools get about 80% of the spots.

Well, you can play with the numbers any way you want. Fully one third of the teams in the final four are from nonP5 schools. Plus, the blue bloods take up a lot of room whichever side o the railroad tracks you're on.

My point being it is easier for Gonzaga or Memphis or Xavier to get a good seed and advance to the final four than 80% of the P5 schools given equal talent.

The final four is a tough nut to crack and top nonP5 schools can there easier than say, Mississippi or Wake Forest simply because of conference schedule and therefore better records and higher seeding. I am not trying to say it is easier for Alabama A&M than Mississippi State, but it is easier for Wichita State than Kansas State.

So what you're saying is that numbers are good when they agree with your point, but numbers are bad when they don't agree with your point. Wow. Brilliant. Talking out the side of your neck.

No, what I'm saying is I was using the numbers for one point and mimi was using them for another, which I agree with. There are over 300 schools eligible for the NCAA tournament. I was only considering the teams which made it to the final four and it shows that what Tubby has said over and over about how hard it is, is just not true according to the facts.

I also counted Louisville, pre ACC and Connecticut as nonP5.

Sounds like all your saying, and I quote,"Wow. Brilliant. Talking out the side of your neck." pretty petty and lame and uncalled for, but show your a$$ if thats what you like to do. What do comments like yours accomplish?

(03-11-2018 06:26 PM)bariggins98 Wrote:  2017- Gonzaga runner up
2016- Villanova champ
2015- none

2014- UConn National champ
2013-Louisville National champ, Wichita State (Final Four)
2012 UConn and Louisville Final Four
2011- UConn (champ)VCU, Butler (runner up)
2010-Butler runner up
2009- UConn Villanova
2008- Memphis
2007- Georgetown
2006- George Mason

Please, Tubby, tell us again how it’s impossible for a non Power5 school to make the Final Four or win a championship. You’d think a “HOF” coach would be more knowledgeable about the sport that is is supposedly elite level.

Added one

Any D1 school has a legitimate shot at a national championship in every NCAA sport except football. Coastal Carolina won a NC in baseball. A previous poster pointed out the recent Final Four appearances of "non P5" schools. It can be done.

(03-12-2018 09:42 AM)HornLakeTiger Wrote:  Any D1 school has a legitimate shot at a national championship in every NCAA sport except football. Coastal Carolina won a NC in baseball. A previous poster pointed out the recent Final Four appearances of "non P5" schools. It can be done.

Just more excuses from the Tubbster. In two years he has basically refused to accept any responsibility except for wins, those are all him and his game plans...

(03-11-2018 07:03 PM)cmt Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:49 PM)Mimi Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:28 PM)cmt Wrote:  To hear the hype, even from our own coach, it is terribly hard to get to the final four unless you are in a P5 conference.

Nothing could be further from the truth

Since 2000, 31 schools have been represented in the final four.
10 of those from non P5 schools, ourselves included. Or, 32%

There have been 9 schools to appear at least 3 times in the last 18 years, 2 of those (at the time) were not P5 schools (Louisville now is)

If you subtract the perennial favorites (those 9) that leaves 22 schools, 8 of which are nonP5, Or, 36%.
All inclusive, if you are P5 and not a perennial favorite, your chances are 29%.

Therefore, a nonP5 school has a better chance than a P5 school that is not one of the Duke's, Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. Michigan State was the winner with 5 appearances if you were wondering.

Which means to me that in a P5 league like the ACC, Wake Forest having to fight through Louisville, North Carolina and Duke, and Virginia, etc makes it extremely difficult for you to get a high seed, play at home (like Duke and UNC always do), and get to the final four. A Gonzaga type school or even a Memphis, if they have assembled the team, has a much easier road to a high seed and a final four.

In conclusion, shut up about the P5 thing in college basketball, it makes no sense.

Numbers are right.

But...you do not factor in that there are a lot more non P5 schools. Just using your numbers, 30% of the schools in the Final Four are non P5 of late.

But, not 30% of all the spots, as other than Butker no school has been more than once in your time frame, so spots are less than 30... and, more importantly, there are 64 P5 schools which there are something close to 300 non. So about 20% of the schools get about 80% of the spots.

Well, you can play with the numbers any way you want. Fully one third of the teams in the final four are from nonP5 schools. Plus, the blue bloods take up a lot of room whichever side o the railroad tracks you're on.

My point being it is easier for Gonzaga or Memphis or Xavier to get a good seed and advance to the final four than 80% of the P5 schools given equal talent.

The final four is a tough nut to crack and top nonP5 schools can there easier than say, Mississippi or Wake Forest simply because of conference schedule and therefore better records and higher seeding. I am not trying to say it is easier for Alabama A&M than Mississippi State, but it is easier for Wichita State than Kansas State.

You use the facts to show the number of non-P5 schools making the F4. Good work. But then, you make a jump and assume it proves that non-P5's can get good seeds easier. Your numbers don't show anything about seeds. In fact, analysis I've read has always shown the non-P5's have a statistical disadvantage in number of teams invited and the seeding. You would need to layer in seeding and the number of total teams invited and left out to get to the results you claim.

(03-12-2018 08:08 AM)cmt Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:36 PM)DoomHaynesJr Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:03 PM)cmt Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:49 PM)Mimi Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:28 PM)cmt Wrote:  To hear the hype, even from our own coach, it is terribly hard to get to the final four unless you are in a P5 conference.

Nothing could be further from the truth

Since 2000, 31 schools have been represented in the final four.
10 of those from non P5 schools, ourselves included. Or, 32%

There have been 9 schools to appear at least 3 times in the last 18 years, 2 of those (at the time) were not P5 schools (Louisville now is)

If you subtract the perennial favorites (those 9) that leaves 22 schools, 8 of which are nonP5, Or, 36%.
All inclusive, if you are P5 and not a perennial favorite, your chances are 29%.

Therefore, a nonP5 school has a better chance than a P5 school that is not one of the Duke's, Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. Michigan State was the winner with 5 appearances if you were wondering.

Which means to me that in a P5 league like the ACC, Wake Forest having to fight through Louisville, North Carolina and Duke, and Virginia, etc makes it extremely difficult for you to get a high seed, play at home (like Duke and UNC always do), and get to the final four. A Gonzaga type school or even a Memphis, if they have assembled the team, has a much easier road to a high seed and a final four.

In conclusion, shut up about the P5 thing in college basketball, it makes no sense.

Numbers are right.

But...you do not factor in that there are a lot more non P5 schools. Just using your numbers, 30% of the schools in the Final Four are non P5 of late.

But, not 30% of all the spots, as other than Butker no school has been more than once in your time frame, so spots are less than 30... and, more importantly, there are 64 P5 schools which there are something close to 300 non. So about 20% of the schools get about 80% of the spots.

Well, you can play with the numbers any way you want. Fully one third of the teams in the final four are from nonP5 schools. Plus, the blue bloods take up a lot of room whichever side o the railroad tracks you're on.

My point being it is easier for Gonzaga or Memphis or Xavier to get a good seed and advance to the final four than 80% of the P5 schools given equal talent.

The final four is a tough nut to crack and top nonP5 schools can there easier than say, Mississippi or Wake Forest simply because of conference schedule and therefore better records and higher seeding. I am not trying to say it is easier for Alabama A&M than Mississippi State, but it is easier for Wichita State than Kansas State.

So what you're saying is that numbers are good when they agree with your point, but numbers are bad when they don't agree with your point. Wow. Brilliant. Talking out the side of your neck.

No, what I'm saying is I was using the numbers for one point and mimi was using them for another, which I agree with. There are over 300 schools eligible for the NCAA tournament. I was only considering the teams which made it to the final four and it shows that what Tubby has said over and over about how hard it is, is just not true according to the facts.

I also counted Louisville, pre ACC and Connecticut as nonP5.

Sounds like all your saying, and I quote,"Wow. Brilliant. Talking out the side of your neck." pretty petty and lame and uncalled for, but show your a$$ if thats what you like to do. What do comments like yours accomplish?

They accomplish nothing, really. But it was fun pointing out the fault in your logic. Please excuse my childish name calling - it wasn't necessary. Your insistence that non P6 teams have an easier path to the final four is sufficiently ludicrous. A statement like that stands on its own wrongheadedness, needing no assistance from a simpleton heckler like myself. Just keep talking. That'll be plenty.