(02-21-2018 02:08 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  First Team
Elmore (him and Caver neck and neck, but points per game pushes Elmore to list)

Neck and Neck my ass. Caver not even in the same stratosphere. Jon Elmore is the only player in the last 26 years that is avg over 20 points, 6.5 rebounds and 7.5 asst per game. The last time that was done by anyone in the NCAA was in 1992.

Not even Trae Young is doing that.

Elmore averages 29.8 points, 8 rebounds, 5 turnoversand 9 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 43%, with an Orating of 115 and Drating of 103.

Caver averages 23 points, 6 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 10 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 40%, with an Orating of 117 and D rating of 94.

Elmore has more counting stats because of minutes played and additional possessions. That is why counting stats should not be as importnant. And also that Elmore can't guard a lick while Caver is one of the best, if not the best, defensive guard in the conference.

(02-21-2018 02:08 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Stopped reading article after the first sentence. Ridiculous.

Player Efficiency Rating:

Cokley 31
Penava 29.6
King 26.4
Porter 25.9
Coleby 23.8 (Burks isn't even on this list; Elmore is 6th)

Total Rebound Percentage:
Cokely 19
Coleby 17
Delp 16
Johnson 16
Penava 15.7

Offensive Rating
Cokley 127
Boykins 124
Thompson 123.5
Troutman 122.9
Coleby 121.8 (Penava 6th, Porter 7, Caver 9, Elmore 10)

Defensive Rating:
Stith 87.9
Lee 91.1
Penava 91.8
Porter 92.2
Carver 92.4
Caver 93.8

Win Shares per 40:
Cokley .258
Penava .227
Porter .226
King .206
Walters .201

In my opinion:

First Team
Elmore (him and Caver neck and neck, but points per game pushes Elmore to list)
Boykins
King
Porter (him and Penava neck and neck)
Cokley

My Player of the year at this point would be Cokely; hes the best player in the converence

2nd Team
Caver
Penava
Thompson
Coleby
Smart

Ok. I will play along. Here's the problem with Cokely and just looking at numbers alone. And you could really make the same arguments about anyone who just puts up big numbers and doesn't do the things that actually helps the team win games.

Cokely scores all his points within 10 feet of the basket. King can do the same things from the block. But King can step out and hit the three. He can also put the ball on the floor from outside and drive to the basket.

Numbers don't illustrate the number of times MT has been in a dog fight at the under four and literally watched King take over the game and lead MT from down three in the final minutes to a 10-point win. Numbers don't account for the fade away three he buried at ODU that sealed the win - or the similar basket he had in Bowling Green from 25-feet away deep into the game as the shot clock was expiring. 28 points and nine boards against the rival in front of a hostile sold out crowd. Who else in the league has put in a performance like that in that situation much less multiple performances like that?

Sorry, but assuming the voters actually watched the league games, King will be unanimous.

Cokely may be able to do that if he actually had good players around him.

And King has been good as well and it's not like it would be a travesty if King won. I just think Cokely is the best player in the conference and he is a killer down on the block. I thought we guarded King pretty well.

(02-21-2018 02:08 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  First Team
Elmore (him and Caver neck and neck, but points per game pushes Elmore to list)

Neck and Neck my ass. Caver not even in the same stratosphere. Jon Elmore is the only player in the last 26 years that is avg over 20 points, 6.5 rebounds and 7.5 asst per game. The last time that was done by anyone in the NCAA was in 1992.

Not even Trae Young is doing that.

(02-21-2018 02:24 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:08 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  First Team
Elmore (him and Caver neck and neck, but points per game pushes Elmore to list)

Neck and Neck my ass. Caver not even in the same stratosphere. Jon Elmore is the only player in the last 26 years that is avg over 20 points, 6.5 rebounds and 7.5 asst per game. The last time that was done by anyone in the NCAA was in 1992.

Not even Trae Young is doing that.

Elmore averages 29.8 points, 8 rebounds, 5 turnoversand 9 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 43%, with an Orating of 115 and Drating of 103.

Caver averages 23 points, 6 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 10 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 40%, with an Orating of 117 and D rating of 94.

Elmore has more counting stats because of minutes played and additional possessions. That is why counting stats should not be as importnant. And also that Elmore can't guard a lick while Caver is one of the best, if not the best, defensive guard in the conference.

He is the best defensive guard in the conference.

(02-21-2018 02:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:24 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:08 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  First Team
Elmore (him and Caver neck and neck, but points per game pushes Elmore to list)

Neck and Neck my ass. Caver not even in the same stratosphere. Jon Elmore is the only player in the last 26 years that is avg over 20 points, 6.5 rebounds and 7.5 asst per game. The last time that was done by anyone in the NCAA was in 1992.

Not even Trae Young is doing that.

Elmore averages 29.8 points, 8 rebounds, 5 turnoversand 9 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 43%, with an Orating of 115 and Drating of 103.

Caver averages 23 points, 6 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 10 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 40%, with an Orating of 117 and D rating of 94.

Elmore has more counting stats because of minutes played and additional possessions. That is why counting stats should not be as importnant. And also that Elmore can't guard a lick while Caver is one of the best, if not the best, defensive guard in the conference.

He is the best defensive guard in the conference.

Who was he guarding in the Western and Middle game? I assume the best defending guard would be on the best scoring guard on the other team...was that not the case for those 2 games?

If so then maybe he was just having a off night..or guarding someone else

Darius Thompson 24 points 7-12 & 4-5 on 3s
Antwain Johnson 18 points 7-12 & 2-3

------------------------------------------------

King wins CPOY and its not close

Jon Elmore is a flopper, and he's not on my team!

Wah!

This thread.

(02-21-2018 02:00 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:26 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:13 PM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:12 PM)Surbadger Wrote:  Elmore should have it. He has been inc discussion as the #1-2 player in conference since the beginning of the year and when he actually matched up against said other player, he had the better game. He has been the most consistent. Even with an off game, he will rack up at least 20 points. Elmore is top 10 in the country in both PPG and Assists/game. He also leads the nation in triple/doubles. You also can't forget about his high FT percentage.

I think Burks should be in the race as well, but Elmore has played at this level all season long. No one commands games better than Elmore. He is a floor general. Elmore will be POY.

Elmore definitely deserves the Academy Award for best flopper hands down....Elmore will not be POY, sorry...POY 9 times out of 10 goes to the best player on the best team, Marshall is 4th, maybe next season....Where does all of this bravado come from for Marshall fans? YOu guys have done nothing in basketball in forever but act like you are Villanova of this conference...

Marshall fans: 10-4 in conf., 19-8 overall with an RPI of 102, those are not Villanova esq numbers, sorry...FOr Christ sake you lost to Morehead St. this season! Morehead is 6-21!

psst....you haven't done anything since you've been in CUSA, either. At least we've got a tournament finals under our belt and a couple top 4 finishes. Doesn't stop you from filling the threads with your basketball opinions. We're just happy to be relevant again. We're no longer the easy win on everyone's schedule. Is it so hard to let us enjoy that a while? You keep saying what you want and so will we. But enough of the glass houses BS. Do something, finish a season with something to show for it. Then you can be all superior.

We actually have 2 CUSA tourney finals. Last year and 2012 vs Memphis.

Players who come in for a hired gun for one year should be excluded from player of the year. Nick King is decent but no way would I take him over this years version of Ajdin Penava. Or what potential Penava will have next year.

Good for you. Keep Penava. We’ll take the championship.

(02-21-2018 02:40 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

Jon Elmore is a flopper, and he's not on my team!

Wah!

This thread.

Every team has one of those players you hate....if they are not on your team. I enjoy watching the kid play would love to have him on Western's team....

even if he's on his back more often than a $10 hooker

And if he was on 'our team' each of us would be booing or shouting bad or awful call if it went against him

(02-21-2018 02:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Cokely may be able to do that if he actually had good players around him.

And King has been good as well and it's not like it would be a travesty if King won. I just think Cokely is the best player in the conference and he is a killer down on the block. I thought we guarded King pretty well.

I actually think Cokely has some very talented players around him. UAB "may" have the most talent of all starting fives in C-USA.

Norton is/was a heckuva point guard, HaHa Lee was at one time destined for the NBA, Bryant is a freshman phenom, and Jalen Perry was thought to have been one of Kermit's best signees ever a coupla years ago before Perry got into some trouble here.

King should be and will be POY. Caver is better than Elmore.

(02-21-2018 02:47 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:40 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

Jon Elmore is a flopper, and he's not on my team!

Wah!

This thread.

Every team has one of those players you hate....if they are not on your team. I enjoy watching the kid play would love to have him on Western's team....

even if he's on his back more often than a $10 hooker

And if he was on 'our team' each of us would be booing or shouting bad or awful call if it went against him

I think Marshall would be much better off if the players played through the whistles and let their coach handle the referees.

(02-21-2018 02:40 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

Jon Elmore.

FIFY

(02-21-2018 02:56 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:47 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:40 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

Jon Elmore is a flopper, and he's not on my team!

Wah!

This thread.

Every team has one of those players you hate....if they are not on your team. I enjoy watching the kid play would love to have him on Western's team....

even if he's on his back more often than a $10 hooker

And if he was on 'our team' each of us would be booing or shouting bad or awful call if it went against him

I think Marshall would be much better off if the players played through the whistles and let their coach handle the referees.

I think that's mainly coaching and so is the lack of defense....

I think if Jon Elmore started his college career on a team that demanded defense, He would play it. Same with the looking at the refs...

Marshall's coach tends to value offense over all else. I enjoy watching them play but as someone who values defense over all else...

I would hate it if I was a fan

(02-21-2018 02:40 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:24 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:08 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  First Team
Elmore (him and Caver neck and neck, but points per game pushes Elmore to list)

Neck and Neck my ass. Caver not even in the same stratosphere. Jon Elmore is the only player in the last 26 years that is avg over 20 points, 6.5 rebounds and 7.5 asst per game. The last time that was done by anyone in the NCAA was in 1992.

Not even Trae Young is doing that.

Elmore averages 29.8 points, 8 rebounds, 5 turnoversand 9 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 43%, with an Orating of 115 and Drating of 103.

Caver averages 23 points, 6 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 10 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 40%, with an Orating of 117 and D rating of 94.

Elmore has more counting stats because of minutes played and additional possessions. That is why counting stats should not be as importnant. And also that Elmore can't guard a lick while Caver is one of the best, if not the best, defensive guard in the conference.

He is the best defensive guard in the conference.

Who was he guarding in the Western and Middle game? I assume the best defending guard would be on the best scoring guard on the other team...was that not the case for those 2 games?

If so then maybe he was just having a off night..or guarding someone else

Darius Thompson 24 points 7-12 & 4-5 on 3s
Antwain Johnson 18 points 7-12 & 2-3

------------------------------------------------

King wins CPOY and its not close

He typically guards point guards because Haynes is a pretty good defender and has good size to match up with the larger guards. I can't remember who was primarily on Johnson, he kinda of came out of nowhere is a bunch of fadeaway buckets that it wouldn't have mattered who guarded him.

(02-21-2018 03:03 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:56 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:47 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:40 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

Jon Elmore is a flopper, and he's not on my team!

Wah!

This thread.

Every team has one of those players you hate....if they are not on your team. I enjoy watching the kid play would love to have him on Western's team....

even if he's on his back more often than a $10 hooker

And if he was on 'our team' each of us would be booing or shouting bad or awful call if it went against him

I think Marshall would be much better off if the players played through the whistles and let their coach handle the referees.

I think that's mainly coaching and so is the lack of defense....

I think if Jon Elmore started his college career on a team that demanded defense, He would play it. Same with the looking at the refs...

Marshall's coach tends to value offense over all else. I enjoy watching them play but as someone who values defense over all else...

I would hate it if I was a fan

That was one of our problems here. Kermit has always seemingly had good defensive teams. We have finally found some flow on offense the past few seasons.

If you don't play Dee for Kermit, you ride the pine.

(02-21-2018 03:14 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:40 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:24 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:08 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Neck and Neck my ass. Caver not even in the same stratosphere. Jon Elmore is the only player in the last 26 years that is avg over 20 points, 6.5 rebounds and 7.5 asst per game. The last time that was done by anyone in the NCAA was in 1992.

Not even Trae Young is doing that.

Elmore averages 29.8 points, 8 rebounds, 5 turnoversand 9 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 43%, with an Orating of 115 and Drating of 103.

Caver averages 23 points, 6 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 10 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 40%, with an Orating of 117 and D rating of 94.

Elmore has more counting stats because of minutes played and additional possessions. That is why counting stats should not be as importnant. And also that Elmore can't guard a lick while Caver is one of the best, if not the best, defensive guard in the conference.

He is the best defensive guard in the conference.

Who was he guarding in the Western and Middle game? I assume the best defending guard would be on the best scoring guard on the other team...was that not the case for those 2 games?

If so then maybe he was just having a off night..or guarding someone else

Darius Thompson 24 points 7-12 & 4-5 on 3s
Antwain Johnson 18 points 7-12 & 2-3

------------------------------------------------

King wins CPOY and its not close

He typically guards point guards because Haynes is a pretty good defender and has good size to match up with the larger guards. I can't remember who was primarily on Johnson, he kinda of came out of nowhere is a bunch of fadeaway buckets that it wouldn't have mattered who guarded him.

I haven't watched enough of ODU to form any opinion on players. I will get a close up view on Saturday night.

(02-21-2018 02:49 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Cokely may be able to do that if he actually had good players around him.

And King has been good as well and it's not like it would be a travesty if King won. I just think Cokely is the best player in the conference and he is a killer down on the block. I thought we guarded King pretty well.

I actually think Cokely has some very talented players around him. UAB "may" have the most talent of all starting fives in C-USA.

Norton is/was a heckuva point guard, HaHa Lee was at one time destined for the NBA, Bryant is a freshman phenom, and Jalen Perry was thought to have been one of Kermit's best signees ever a coupla years ago before Perry got into some trouble here.

I don't see it. Lee is a good defensive big man. Bryant appears to be a stud, I hate that we will have to deal with him. Norton, maybe it's the injury, but he really sucks this year.

(02-21-2018 02:40 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:24 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 02:08 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 01:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  First Team
Elmore (him and Caver neck and neck, but points per game pushes Elmore to list)

Neck and Neck my ass. Caver not even in the same stratosphere. Jon Elmore is the only player in the last 26 years that is avg over 20 points, 6.5 rebounds and 7.5 asst per game. The last time that was done by anyone in the NCAA was in 1992.

Not even Trae Young is doing that.

Elmore averages 29.8 points, 8 rebounds, 5 turnoversand 9 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 43%, with an Orating of 115 and Drating of 103.

Caver averages 23 points, 6 rebounds, 3 turnovers, and 10 assists per 100 possessions with a FG% of 40%, with an Orating of 117 and D rating of 94.

Elmore has more counting stats because of minutes played and additional possessions. That is why counting stats should not be as importnant. And also that Elmore can't guard a lick while Caver is one of the best, if not the best, defensive guard in the conference.

He is the best defensive guard in the conference.

Who was he guarding in the Western and Middle game? I assume the best defending guard would be on the best scoring guard on the other team...was that not the case for those 2 games?

If so then maybe he was just having a off night..or guarding someone else

Darius Thompson 24 points 7-12 & 4-5 on 3s
Antwain Johnson 18 points 7-12 & 2-3

------------------------------------------------

King wins CPOY and its not close

Caver guarded Hollingsworth, but I am not sure who he guarded against Middle.

Edit: Haynes is just barely behind him defensively. Haynes is longer, so he gets the bulk of the better scorers because Caver is so important on the offensive end.

I don't think Elmore is a bad defender because of D'Antoni. He's not the most athletic guy.

(02-21-2018 03:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I don't think Elmore is a bad defender because of D'Antoni. He's not the most athletic guy.

He looks pretty athletic to me. Dude can jump out of the gym, can't he ?

I've heard a few say that JJ at Western isn't "athletic". I just laugh.