Traditionally ODU doesn't get much love on these all CUSA teams. We got freeman on 1st team 2 years ago, but he was also leading the conference in scoring. I wouldn't be surprised if we have 1 2nd teamer (porter or caver) and 1 3rd teamer (porter or caver). We are too balanced and a lot of these voters just look at scoring and no other stat.

(02-23-2018 08:38 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 08:32 AM)Herd2believe Wrote:  Ok here we go again with “system and pace of play”. Do you realize that King averages more shots a game than Elmore(slightly) and much greater usage %? I forgot to mention that Elmore has the opinion of NBA scouts and experts on his side, but King has opinion of “fans” . But I’m “delusional”. Haters gonna hate.
I want to make clear that I have great respect for King and MTSU team and program,just that Elmore is POY.

Everyone is partially delusional in some way, I mean we are all here on a sports message board discussing something 100% out of our control. But I will just point out, I don't think I've seen anyone from any other fanhood besides Marshall suggesting Elmore should be POY unless I missed it. We all have our biases but sometimes you just need to zoom out and try to see it from another perspective.

I don't think Elmore, Burks or Penava is the best player in the league. They are a great threesome though. As many have pointed out, Marshall has serious defects (no real frontcourt at all as Penava is a 3 playing out of place and no real depth to speak of), but these guys play at a very high level and for the most part make up for those serious defects. I think that ought to merit them some admiration.

Instead, the allegation is that you could plug and play essentially any decent guard in this league into Marshall and do better. That is just silly.

I'd also like to say that there is some West Virginia pride particularly with two of those guys. D'antoni has taken a very different tact with this team than other coaches in the league. He isn't just implementing an NBA style offense, he is doing it with kids from our home state, one that is very poor and has had very little athletic success. There is a lot more personal pride to the value of these guys than your typical college basketball player. A ton of hometown pride being seen from Marshall fans.

Burks
Elmore
Caver/Thompson...I am not really sure.
Johnson
King

Caver/Thompson
Smart
Porter
Cokley
Boykins

Jackson
BJ Stith
Peneva
Cashaw?
Potts

POY- King
COY-Stansbury/Jones (Kermit is the best coach but biggest jump goes to these two)
FOY- Jackson
DPOY- I guess Peneva/Caver...Someone correct me if I am missing something.

I have to be missing badly on something.

Yeah, Porter and Caver should both be recognized. Caver 2nd, and Porter 3rd team.

(02-23-2018 09:14 AM)757ODU Wrote:  Burks
Elmore
Caver/Thompson...I am not really sure.
Johnson
King

Caver/Thompson
Smart
Porter
Cokley
Boykins

Jackson
BJ Stith
Peneva
Cashaw?
Potts

POY- King
COY-Stansbury/Jones (Kermit is the best coach but biggest jump goes to these two)
FOY- Jackson
DPOY- I guess Peneva/Caver...Someone correct me if I am missing something.

I have to be missing badly on something.

The beast Coleby (sp?) from Western will make one of the teams, for sure.

(02-23-2018 09:55 AM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 09:14 AM)757ODU Wrote:  Burks
Elmore
Caver/Thompson...I am not really sure.
Johnson
King

Caver/Thompson
Smart
Porter
Cokley
Boykins

Jackson
BJ Stith
Peneva
Cashaw?
Potts

POY- King
COY-Stansbury/Jones (Kermit is the best coach but biggest jump goes to these two)
FOY- Jackson
DPOY- I guess Peneva/Caver...Someone correct me if I am missing something.

I have to be missing badly on something.

The beast Coleby (sp?) from Western will make one of the teams, for sure.

Insert for cashew. Beard from FIU might make a team.

(02-23-2018 09:09 AM)Herd2believe Wrote:  Again big MU fan, but iMO COY Henson UTSA and FOY Jackson UTSA

I would vote for Stansbury for COY...He has 1 returning player from last season and here we are 2nd place with a shot for conference regular season title... Henson record not good enough for this season....Justin 1st team Darius 1st team all conference. Hollingsworth and Coleby 3td Team all conf.....

What a disappointing season for Tech. Usually always have some say in this conversation.

As for as COY, I've been impressed with the job of several coaches across the league, and won't have any problem with some of the coaches if they're selected over Kermit, but just want to point out, after Williams and Upshaw finished up last season, there were a lot of folks that thought MT would take a huge step back from the past couple of seasons, but yet here we are again, MT leading the conference and Kermit has found ways to get it done.

COY is definitely a tougher call than POY. Several worthy candidates.

(02-23-2018 02:45 PM)SpaceRaider Wrote:  As for as COY, I've been impressed with the job of several coaches across the league, and won't have any problem with some of the coaches if they're selected over Kermit, but just want to point out, after Williams and Upshaw finished up last season, there were a lot of folks that thought MT would take a huge step back from the past couple of seasons, but yet here we are again, MT leading the conference and Kermit has found ways to get it done.

We didn't know he was going to find ANOTHER all star grad transfer. Without King MT would be good but would have lost a couple more games.

(02-23-2018 02:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 02:45 PM)SpaceRaider Wrote:  As for as COY, I've been impressed with the job of several coaches across the league, and won't have any problem with some of the coaches if they're selected over Kermit, but just want to point out, after Williams and Upshaw finished up last season, there were a lot of folks that thought MT would take a huge step back from the past couple of seasons, but yet here we are again, MT leading the conference and Kermit has found ways to get it done.

We didn't know he was going to find ANOTHER all star grad transfer. Without King MT would be good but would have lost a couple more games.

He didn't "find" King. Kermit worked him three different times over a five year period.

FWIW, you can pretty much expect something like this every year from now on from MT. With 40% of all incoming freshmen basketball players now transferring at least once and the increasing number of grad transfers, Kermit is going to continue identifying and recruiting players that are looking for a fresh start and will fit his system.

(02-23-2018 03:00 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 02:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 02:45 PM)SpaceRaider Wrote:  As for as COY, I've been impressed with the job of several coaches across the league, and won't have any problem with some of the coaches if they're selected over Kermit, but just want to point out, after Williams and Upshaw finished up last season, there were a lot of folks that thought MT would take a huge step back from the past couple of seasons, but yet here we are again, MT leading the conference and Kermit has found ways to get it done.

We didn't know he was going to find ANOTHER all star grad transfer. Without King MT would be good but would have lost a couple more games.

He didn't "find" King. Kermit worked him three different times over a five year period.

FWIW, you can pretty much expect something like this every year from now on from MT. With 40% of all incoming freshmen basketball players now transferring at least once and the increasing number of grad transfers, Kermit is going to continue identifying and recruiting players that are looking for a fresh start and will fit his system.

I do not expect Kermit to find or otherwise procure the POY out of his ass every year. I sleep better that way.

(02-21-2018 04:43 PM)theboro Wrote:  

(02-21-2018 03:40 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Defense has a lot to do with effort and knowing how to play position and what the offensive player wants to do...

I wasn't the quickest going left to right but I could jump (6'1 hit the 11 ft mark on a two step and jump) and I enjoyed stopping the best offensive player on the floor. I did not play college ball but we had a team in the top industrial league in BG......

a lot of ex Western players and players from other colleges played in it... those scores HATED playing our team. I played 94 ft defense from the tip to the end of the game. While a lot were quicker... I had the ability to read them and the ability to change jump shots shots with my leaping. One other thing...if a play got hot and in the zone....

I did not care to waste a couple fouls on a drive to the basket. I put many ex-college players into the wall. To stop a player in the zone you have to get in their head.

Defense is a lot of effort and want

You’re the Michael Jordan of Marrowbone. The Lebron James of Leitchfield, the Horace Grant of Hazzard. The Penny Hardaway of Paducah, the Gary Payton of Glasgow.
That’s about all I got...

Good thing you didn’t say the Bo Jackson of Bugtussle because that’s TIBL. He has a plaque that says so in his man cave.

I wish I had a man cave dahbeed. I had a quasi cave that was actually just a bedroom years back. But the addition of two little munchkins changed all that. I have to share the TV with the wife now (and children). It's an unfortunate arrangement.

(02-23-2018 03:27 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  I wish I had a man cave dahbeed. I had a quasi cave that was actually just a bedroom years back. But the addition of two little munchkins changed all that. I have to share the TV with the wife now (and children). It's an unfortunate arrangement.

It may be unfortunate but the price of having curtain climbers. It’s a choice many of us have made. I didn’t regret it with my two sons. Or like the guy that went to Ice Skating thing last night instead of Marshall game for his kids. Pay that price and raise tax paying citizens like I did.

Back on topic. King wins it. Nobody else in the conversation. All the number arguing from other fan bases are silly.

This one is a little homerism. I know Jivvahn Jackson will win freshman of the year but I looked at his numbers vs. Tayveon. If Tayveon was jacking the ball like Jackson he’d probably get it.

Tayveon is nationally ranked in Pomeroy in 7 categories. Jackson is nationally ranked in 4 of them. 2 of those being %of possessions and %of shots.

Tayveon shoots better percentage from the line, from the floor and from the 3.

But count on Jivvahn to win it due to winning freshman of the week so many times and jacking the ball up like it’s on fire when it hits his hand. Don’t get me wrong. I think he’s a fabulous young player. But I don’t think he’s better than Tayveon and I seriously doubt he gets to guard everyone’s best guard on defense.

(02-23-2018 03:40 PM)dahbeed Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 03:27 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  I wish I had a man cave dahbeed. I had a quasi cave that was actually just a bedroom years back. But the addition of two little munchkins changed all that. I have to share the TV with the wife now (and children). It's an unfortunate arrangement.

It may be unfortunate but the price of having curtain climbers. It’s a choice many of us have made. I didn’t regret it with my two sons. Or like the guy that went to Ice Skating thing last night instead of Marshall game for his kids. Pay that price and raise tax paying citizens like I did.

Back on topic. King wins it. Nobody else in the conversation. All the number arguing from other fan bases are silly.

This one is a little homerism. I know Jivvahn Jackson will win freshman of the year but I looked at his numbers vs. Tayveon. If Tayveon was jacking the ball like Jackson he’d probably get it.

Tayveon is nationally ranked in Pomeroy in 7 categories. Jackson is nationally ranked in 4 of them. 2 of those being %of possessions and %of shots.

Tayveon shoots better percentage from the line, from the floor and from the 3.

But count on Jivvahn to win it due to winning freshman of the week so many times and jacking the ball up like it’s on fire when it hits his hand. Don’t get me wrong. I think he’s a fabulous young player. But I don’t think he’s better than Tayveon and I seriously doubt he gets to guard everyone’s best guard on defense.

I agree with you. I've only watched UTSA once and that was when we beat them pretty badly at home but Jackson was sinking some crazy shots. He's a good player. But if I could choose one to be on my team it'd be Hollingsworth. He's a baller and more well rounded player IMO. Maybe I haven't seen enough of both to say but that's my current impression.

I agree with Hollingsworth at FOY, as well. I like Jackson, but he takes a lot of bad shots, and that team, at least when we saw them, didn't bother to play much defense. I think Hollingsworth is a better overall player (although, Jackson is very good, too).

(02-23-2018 08:32 AM)Herd2believe Wrote:  Ok here we go again with “system and pace of play”. Do you realize that King averages more shots a game than Elmore(slightly) and much greater usage %? I forgot to mention that Elmore has the opinion of NBA scouts and experts on his side, but King has opinion of “fans” . But I’m “delusional”. Haters gonna hate.
I want to make clear that I have great respect for King and MTSU team and program,just that Elmore is POY.

King averages 8 more points per 100 possessions than Elmore.

(02-23-2018 04:00 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 08:32 AM)Herd2believe Wrote:  Ok here we go again with “system and pace of play”. Do you realize that King averages more shots a game than Elmore(slightly) and much greater usage %? I forgot to mention that Elmore has the opinion of NBA scouts and experts on his side, but King has opinion of “fans” . But I’m “delusional”. Haters gonna hate.
I want to make clear that I have great respect for King and MTSU team and program,just that Elmore is POY.

King averages 8 more points per 100 possessions than Elmore.

And King's 35.8 points per 100 is less than Cokley's 36.1

UAB might not have won 8 games without Chris.