(02-15-2018 09:36 AM)gdunn Wrote: If anything we need to start the talk of banning ARs and parts to make these guns. If I had to pick a path, that's the path I take.
17 — The number of people who died at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland.
1,858 — Days since New York enacted the SAFE Act, which banned AR-15 style rifles like the one used in Florida and required mental health professionals to report patients “likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious harm to self or others” in a database that restricts their ability to buy guns.
43-18 — The final vote in the GOP-controlled New York state Senate when it passed the bill.
3 — The number of senators who lost their seats in part because of the SAFE Act vote: Ted O’Brien (D-Rochester), Terry Gipson (D-Dutchess County) and Mark Grisanti (R-Buffalo)
0 — The number of people that have died in school shootings in New York since the SAFE Act was passed, according to a compilation of nearly 300 incidents by Everytown, a gun control advocacy group.
Not to be a prick, but where did you find that information and would you be willing to share the link with info?
And another serious question - how many people died in school shootings in New York in recent years prior to the SAFE Act? I don't know so I am asking.
(02-15-2018 09:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote: You can float it all you want. What you can't do is get the necessary votes in the House, Senate, and State legislatures. The scenario where you could get those votes is hard to imagine.
Just so everyone is clear, I am an ardent Second Amendment supporter. I want the conversation on gun confiscation to happen so I can see where people really stand.
There are no longer and laws that will prevent shootings. So let's start the conversations, politically, on repealing the Second Amendment and see where that leads us electorally.
I said in a [post on another thread I don't think repealing the 2nd amendment is necessary. That's a bridge to far at this point in our country's life.
What we need is to send a message. One that tells people using guns to kill humans is unacceptable in our country. No need to ban MOST gun ownership, sport and hunting rifles are not usually used to kill in mass shootings, mostly assault rifles.
We need to present a united front, libs and cons, to say we won't tolerate this anymore. A collective change in our society's attitudes will take many, many decades if not longer, but we've got to start somewhere. Banning g assault rifles seems like a good start and sends a clear message.
Slow speed of ammunition? Is the AR15 the “Jordan’s” of assasination? Social media and drugs just as culpable? The right to own guns should be protected by strict measures to purchase one. Perhaps a class you sign up for and pass before being able to purchase one?
(02-15-2018 10:05 AM)Dasville Wrote: Slow speed of ammunition? Is the AR15 the “Jordan’s” of assasination? Social media and drugs just as culpable? The right to own guns should be protected by strict measures to purchase one. Perhaps a class you sign up for and pass before being able to purchase one?
There are states that have that. I believe in North Carolina, you have to take a class, pass, and then buy permits for certain guns via the sheriff's department. I could be wrong, can one of our Carolina folks confirm or correct me?
(02-15-2018 09:36 AM)gdunn Wrote: If anything we need to start the talk of banning ARs and parts to make these guns. If I had to pick a path, that's the path I take.
17 — The number of people who died at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland.
1,858 — Days since New York enacted the SAFE Act, which banned AR-15 style rifles like the one used in Florida and required mental health professionals to report patients “likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious harm to self or others” in a database that restricts their ability to buy guns.
43-18 — The final vote in the GOP-controlled New York state Senate when it passed the bill.
3 — The number of senators who lost their seats in part because of the SAFE Act vote: Ted O’Brien (D-Rochester), Terry Gipson (D-Dutchess County) and Mark Grisanti (R-Buffalo)
0 — The number of people that have died in school shootings in New York since the SAFE Act was passed, according to a compilation of nearly 300 incidents by Everytown, a gun control advocacy group.
Not to be a prick, but where did you find that information and would you be willing to share the link with info?
And another serious question - how many people died in school shootings in New York in recent years prior to the SAFE Act? I don't know so I am asking.
(02-15-2018 09:46 AM)Kaplony Wrote: Second bold part:
Ban ARs and yesterday Cruz instead uses the shotgun he's holding in an Instagram picture. So instead of thirty .223 caliber projectiles he's now sending one hundred and sixty eight .30 caliber projectiles down a crowded hallway. What exactly have you accomplished here?
Just my opinion here -
He probably doesn't kill 17 people with a few shots from a shotgun. He probably injures as many , but does not kill them.
And if that were his only weapon there would be a greater chance of somebody (or multiple people) being able to take him down after his first shots.
It's sad that we have come to this. Our church is now implementing plans to attempt to thwart shootings such as these. Among other things, we now post several people at unlocked entrances during services. Who would have ever thought something like that would be necessary?
As someone with extensive experience hunting with buckshot I'd say you are dead wrong. I believe he kills and wounds far more with buckshot in the confined space of a hallway, and depending on the choke used in the shotgun I'd say it very well could be considerably more.
(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)Old Dominion Wrote: I said in a [post on another thread I don't think repealing the 2nd amendment is necessary. That's a bridge to far at this point in our country's life.
What we need is to send a message. One that tells people using guns to kill humans is unacceptable in our country. No need to ban MOST gun ownership, sport and hunting rifles are not usually used to kill in mass shootings, mostly assault rifles. We need to present a united front, libs and cons, to say we won't tolerate this anymore. A collective change in our society's attitudes will take many, many decades if not longer, but we've got to start somewhere. Banning g assault rifles seems like a good start and sends a clear message.
First off, do you even know what an assault rifle is?
Second, can you name the mass shootings where an assault rifle was used?
Someone was going down the right path with this and kind of stopped.....
There is a much bigger problem than guns being available. Respect and courtesy are dying character traits in today's society. Another thing that is dying is RESPONSIBILITY.
I see it in schools every single day. Teachers get verbally abused with no repercussions from their parents whatsoever - in many cases it is encouraged - parents treat teachers and schools like they are babysitters - when their kid acts up, parents say - that's your problem not mine, you are watching them....
As this new generation of children become adults they have no respect for peers, police, government, neighbors, laws, rules .... no body. To coin a phrase - "It's all about them". When it comes to guns and violence as a whole - you have these people who have never been disciplined for anything, thinking they can get away with anything. Then they become an adult, mouth off to a police officer and get cuffed for something they did wrong - but in their mind they have every right to do it because they were never told no before. Then its a vicious circle, the police have to increase their responses to off set the the growing resistance.... and around we go.
The bigger and growing problem now is that many of these people who think they can do whatever they want are now becoming parents themselves and they are creating anew generation of disrespectful people who will double down on their parents attitudes.
When I was a kid - if I ever talked back to a teacher, I would not have been able to sit comfortably for a week. Today I would be told - don't worry, they are just teachers, you don't have to do anything they say if you don't want to.
This is not about guns at all, it is about peoples lack of respect for anything - and just taking what they think is rightfully theirs whether it is or not.
(02-15-2018 10:05 AM)Dasville Wrote: Slow speed of ammunition? Is the AR15 the “Jordan’s” of assasination? Social media and drugs just as culpable? The right to own guns should be protected by strict measures to purchase one. Perhaps a class you sign up for and pass before being able to purchase one?
I'm all for that. Just as soon as there are strict measures and classes you have to take prior to engaging in free speech and voting.
If I'm going to have to jump through hoops to exercise the Constitutional right that I enjoy to make you feel safer then everybody else is going to be right there with me to exercise the others.
In our area we used to have neighborhood schools. My kids went to an elementary school with 125 kids in grades 1-6 for their first few years.
But hey, thats not efficient, it costs too much. So you build a new school that has 5,000 kids in it.
My kids went from an intimate school where everyone knows everyone to a school where there was no talking at lunch and you had to march single file to the cafeteria.
Now small schools are not immune from school shootings. But I have to think that sardine can corporate-type schools can't be that helpful.
There is also this idea that everyone must go to school, no matter how disruptive, no matter how much they do not want to be there. That seems stupid. If they don't want to be there....bye.
Somehow the individual right to bear arms ensconced in the Constitution is up for gutting. But the way we do education.....sacred cow....not part of the problem.
(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)Old Dominion Wrote: I said in a [post on another thread I don't think repealing the 2nd amendment is necessary. That's a bridge to far at this point in our country's life.
What we need is to send a message. One that tells people using guns to kill humans is unacceptable in our country. No need to ban MOST gun ownership, sport and hunting rifles are not usually used to kill in mass shootings, mostly assault rifles. We need to present a united front, libs and cons, to say we won't tolerate this anymore. A collective change in our society's attitudes will take many, many decades if not longer, but we've got to start somewhere. Banning g assault rifles seems like a good start and sends a clear message.
First off, do you even know what an assault rifle is?
Second, can you name the mass shootings where an assault rifle was used?
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
You strike me as one of those negative, "can't do it" people who always look for ways to NOT do anything."
"People who say it can't be done need to get out of the way of those doing it."
(02-15-2018 10:05 AM)Dasville Wrote: Slow speed of ammunition? Is the AR15 the “Jordan’s” of assasination? Social media and drugs just as culpable? The right to own guns should be protected by strict measures to purchase one. Perhaps a class you sign up for and pass before being able to purchase one?
I'm all for that. Just as soon as there are strict measures and classes you have to take prior to engaging in free speech and voting.
If I'm going to have to jump through hoops to exercise the Constitutional right that I enjoy to make you feel safer then everybody else is going to be right there with me to exercise the others.
At what age do we earn the right to vote, buy booze, smoke, drive etc...... buy a gun?
Give me a gun bill that will stop these shootings and I'll get behind it.
Background checks are useless because the perpetrators of these shootings almost never have prior criminal backgrounds.
Waiting periods or limits on how many guns you can buy in a specified amount of time are pointless because these shootings are planned out years in advance.
As someone who has never owned a gun and only shot a pistol, 22 rifle, and a 12 gauge what are the uses for an AR-15? Is it used for any type of hunting?
The moment people start being outraged about iPhones and Facebook and game content and tv content and print porn and drug use and start litigation about that restriction.......then we can get to guns.
(02-15-2018 10:04 AM)Old Dominion Wrote: I said in a [post on another thread I don't think repealing the 2nd amendment is necessary. That's a bridge to far at this point in our country's life.
What we need is to send a message. One that tells people using guns to kill humans is unacceptable in our country. No need to ban MOST gun ownership, sport and hunting rifles are not usually used to kill in mass shootings, mostly assault rifles. We need to present a united front, libs and cons, to say we won't tolerate this anymore. A collective change in our society's attitudes will take many, many decades if not longer, but we've got to start somewhere. Banning g assault rifles seems like a good start and sends a clear message.
First off, do you even know what an assault rifle is?
Second, can you name the mass shootings where an assault rifle was used?
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
You strike me as one of those negative, "can't do it" people who always look for ways to NOT do anything."
"People who say it can't be done need to get out of the way of those doing it."
First there has to be a solution for one to be a part of it.
The oldest example of a code of law is the Code of Ur-Nammu from Mesopotamia somewhere around 2100BC. Guess what one of the laws was? "If a man commits murder that man must be killed". So a law that has existed since the earliest known example of a code of law hasn't been able to stop this but you naively think some new law will?
(02-15-2018 10:28 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote: As someone who has never owned a gun and only shot a pistol, 22 rifle, and a 12 gauge what are the uses for an AR-15? Is it used for any type of hunting?
Personally I wouldn't deer or hog hunt with an AR15 chambered in the most common 5.56mm/.223 caliber round because despite the hype it is not an especially high powered round and the light bullet weight makes your margin for error in shot placement for a clean kill very small. I know plenty of people who do deer hunt with it and they have success, but I personally prefer my larger and much more powerful .30-06.
