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Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
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rtaylor Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-14-2018 09:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 06:34 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...ssion=true

In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.

He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.

There is absolutely cause to be concerned. This statistic is pretty damning...

Quote:In 1998, 67 percent of the top 100 prospects – as measured by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI) -- committed to teams in the nation’s top six conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12.

By 2007, that percentage had increased to 89 percent.

In 2017, it was 95 percent.

That is why it is so critical for Memphis and UConn to revive their programs because right now the AAC is viewed as a 2nd tier league even though statistically they are a stronger league than the PAC-12 this year. It is absolutely hurting Cincinnati on the recruiting trail. Many top 150 prospects won't even consider Cincinnati because they don't play in the ACC or B1G. The UA, instead of Nike, affiliation probably hurts us a lot too but nothing we can do about that (hopefully the FBI comes down hard on the major Nike schools but they probably won't).

UConn will only revive their program if they move to the ACC or the new Big East. The AAC has killed their ability to recruit in the Northeast. Memphis is just like Wichita - good teams that previously dominated weak leagues and now stumble against better competition. Memphis had to cheat to be dominant and got caught.

Nope. UCONN needs Ollie to recruit or go away. No one goes to Boston College to play basketball. Syracuse has always been there. What happens after Boheim? St. Johns has been garbage forever. With the right coach Memphis will haul in kids from that recruiting hot bed.
 
02-14-2018 11:26 PM
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geef Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-14-2018 09:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 06:34 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...ssion=true

In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.

He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.

There is absolutely cause to be concerned. This statistic is pretty damning...

Quote:In 1998, 67 percent of the top 100 prospects – as measured by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI) -- committed to teams in the nation’s top six conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12.

By 2007, that percentage had increased to 89 percent.

In 2017, it was 95 percent.

That is why it is so critical for Memphis and UConn to revive their programs because right now the AAC is viewed as a 2nd tier league even though statistically they are a stronger league than the PAC-12 this year. It is absolutely hurting Cincinnati on the recruiting trail. Many top 150 prospects won't even consider Cincinnati because they don't play in the ACC or B1G. The UA, instead of Nike, affiliation probably hurts us a lot too but nothing we can do about that (hopefully the FBI comes down hard on the major Nike schools but they probably won't).

UConn will only revive their program if they move to the ACC or the new Big East. The AAC has killed their ability to recruit in the Northeast. Memphis is just like Wichita - good teams that previously dominated weak leagues and now stumble against better competition. Memphis had to cheat to be dominant and got caught.

Wow. What a remarkably broad brush you paint, with zero context. So, did Memphis have to cheat to be dominant, or did they have to be in a weak league? Because they had Final Four seasons under Gene Bartow and Dana Kirk before Calipari came along. And you've already figured Wichita State out after three losses and a likely second place finish in their new conference?
 
02-14-2018 11:30 PM
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Ragpicker Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-14-2018 11:30 PM)geef Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 09:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 06:34 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...ssion=true

In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.

He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.

There is absolutely cause to be concerned. This statistic is pretty damning...

Quote:In 1998, 67 percent of the top 100 prospects – as measured by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI) -- committed to teams in the nation’s top six conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12.

By 2007, that percentage had increased to 89 percent.

In 2017, it was 95 percent.

That is why it is so critical for Memphis and UConn to revive their programs because right now the AAC is viewed as a 2nd tier league even though statistically they are a stronger league than the PAC-12 this year. It is absolutely hurting Cincinnati on the recruiting trail. Many top 150 prospects won't even consider Cincinnati because they don't play in the ACC or B1G. The UA, instead of Nike, affiliation probably hurts us a lot too but nothing we can do about that (hopefully the FBI comes down hard on the major Nike schools but they probably won't).

UConn will only revive their program if they move to the ACC or the new Big East. The AAC has killed their ability to recruit in the Northeast. Memphis is just like Wichita - good teams that previously dominated weak leagues and now stumble against better competition. Memphis had to cheat to be dominant and got caught.

Wow. What a remarkably broad brush you paint, with zero context. So, did Memphis have to cheat to be dominant, or did they have to be in a weak league? Because they had Final Four seasons under Gene Bartow and Dana Kirk before Calipari came along. And you've already figured Wichita State out after three losses and a likely second place finish in their new conference?
Gene Bartow and Dana Kirk - lmao
Such a relevant reference to the economic chasm of today. Why stop at the 1970's, head back to those great teams in the 50's. And by the way, Dana Kirk was also brought up on criminal charges with all of Memphis' tournament appearances vacated.

And with regard to Wichita, you think the Cats will lose twice to them? And then the Shockers win the Conference tournament? I'm a little more of a UC fan and see WSU with 3 more losses. They're not that impressive.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2018 12:59 AM by Ragpicker.)
02-15-2018 12:40 AM
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zdiddy513 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-14-2018 11:26 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 09:27 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 06:34 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...ssion=true

In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.

He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.

There is absolutely cause to be concerned. This statistic is pretty damning...

Quote:In 1998, 67 percent of the top 100 prospects – as measured by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI) -- committed to teams in the nation’s top six conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12.

By 2007, that percentage had increased to 89 percent.

In 2017, it was 95 percent.

That is why it is so critical for Memphis and UConn to revive their programs because right now the AAC is viewed as a 2nd tier league even though statistically they are a stronger league than the PAC-12 this year. It is absolutely hurting Cincinnati on the recruiting trail. Many top 150 prospects won't even consider Cincinnati because they don't play in the ACC or B1G. The UA, instead of Nike, affiliation probably hurts us a lot too but nothing we can do about that (hopefully the FBI comes down hard on the major Nike schools but they probably won't).

UConn will only revive their program if they move to the ACC or the new Big East. The AAC has killed their ability to recruit in the Northeast. Memphis is just like Wichita - good teams that previously dominated weak leagues and now stumble against better competition. Memphis had to cheat to be dominant and got caught.

Nope. UCONN needs Ollie to recruit or go away. No one goes to Boston College to play basketball. Syracuse has always been there. What happens after Boheim? St. Johns has been garbage forever. With the right coach Memphis will haul in kids from that recruiting hot bed.

We would kill for the recruits Ollie has gotten. He just can't coach them up and/or deals with major injuries too often. We have been lucky, I don't remember the last time we had someone out for the year. Kudos to Michael Rehfeldt.
 
02-15-2018 02:58 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
So UC rolls on and wins the national championship--the second team from the American to do that in four years. Does that change the perception of the conference? Villanova has been terrific in recent years but much of the new Big East is basking in the reflected glory of the old Big East and that narrative is given energy by the fawning east coast media.

Conference performance is cyclical in most cases. UCONN and Memphis have too much tradition and investment to stay irrelevant. The collapse of both programs has damaged the reputation of the AAC in the short run. And in both cases, that's mostly about coaching.

I share the obvious concern about the P5 v. G5 resource disparity. But I have no doubt that if the P5 decide to take their ball and find a new playground, the basketball only new Big East won't be invited to that party either. It's (still) all about football.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2018 07:32 AM by OKIcat.)
02-15-2018 07:30 AM
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jarr Offline
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
By the way, and I know this was probably discussed million times in the past 5 years, but why did the BE defectors or Catholic 7 get to keep the BE name? Weren't they the ones to leave? I know I'm probably missing something, but doesn't make any sense to me.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2018 07:48 AM by jarr.)
02-15-2018 07:48 AM
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
They didn't get to keep it, they bought it by negotiating to leave all of the credit $$, withdrawal $$ and entry fees in the account...UC, UCONN and USF have been getting 10 million dollars extra over these past 5 years since then after selling the name.
 
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2018 07:51 AM by rath v2.0.)
02-15-2018 07:50 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 07:48 AM)jarr Wrote:  By the way, and I know this was probably discussed million times in the past 5 years, but why did the BE defectors or Catholic 7 get to keep the BE name? Weren't they the ones to leave? I know I'm probably missing something, but doesn't make any sense to me.

We sold it to them. And UC has been banking big checks for the last few years as a result.
 
02-15-2018 07:50 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 07:48 AM)jarr Wrote:  By the way, and I know this was probably discussed million times in the past 5 years, but why did the BE defectors or Catholic 7 get to keep the BE name? Weren't they the ones to leave? I know I'm probably missing something, but doesn't make any sense to me.

Quite literally they bought the naming rights.
 
02-15-2018 07:51 AM
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Billy_Bearcat Offline
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
I’m thinking we’d have been better off keeping the name
 
02-15-2018 08:10 AM
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icecat21 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 07:30 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  So UC rolls on and wins the national championship--the second team from the American to do that in four years. Does that change the perception of the conference? Villanova has been terrific in recent years but much of the new Big East is basking in the reflected glory of the old Big East and that narrative is given energy by the fawning east coast media.

Conference performance is cyclical in most cases. UCONN and Memphis have too much tradition and investment to stay irrelevant. The collapse of both programs has damaged the reputation of the AAC in the short run. And in both cases, that's mostly about coaching.

I share the obvious concern about the P5 v. G5 resource disparity. But I have no doubt that if the P5 decide to take their ball and find a new playground, the basketball only new Big East won't be invited to that party either. It's (still) all about football.

Don't forget UCF won the national championship in football this season too!! Anyone who thinks otherwise can't accept the truth!
 
02-15-2018 08:13 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
The BE money is now gone. Time to your donations
 
02-15-2018 08:17 AM
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bearcat18 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
I get the point Decourcy is making, but I've seen PLENTY (not just a few exception) of bad P6 teams this year. All you have to do is make your rounds of ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, CBSSN, FS1, BTN, PAC12N, SECN on a given night and you'll see. Just because you have three ranked wins to go along with your 15 losses doesn't mean you don't stink.
 
02-15-2018 08:26 AM
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UCbball21 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 08:10 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  I’m thinking we’d have been better off keeping the name

Perhaps, but I don't think Cincinnati or UConn expected to still be in the AAC in 2018 when that decision was made.
 
02-15-2018 08:26 AM
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 08:17 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The BE money is now gone. Time to your donations

Here is an uplifting POV:

We gave the entire $10 million we got out of the BE deal to Tommy Tubberville for his 4 years.

Stop the Earth....I want off. 03-lmfao
 
02-15-2018 08:28 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 08:10 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  I’m thinking we’d have been better off keeping the name

I've thought about that option as well. I'm not sure the brand equity would have been there with only three former BE members (UC, UCONN, USF) had the name been retained. As I understand it, the American is the old Big East corporation and as others have said, only the name was sold for a boatload of cash. I have to believe that cash flow emboldened (along with substantial private support) UC to build P5 quality football and basketball facilities. When conference realignment resumes, UC is well prepared.

As CliftonAve suggested though, giving and getting fans in the stands should remain strategic priorities for UC's Athletic Department. Cincy has made great strides in recent years in fan interest. But looking around the AAC, no one tuning in on national TV is impressed by beautiful, state of the art stadia or arenas when they are half empty. Even the new Big East tapped three expansion candidates in X, Butler and Creighton that fill their respective arenas most every game. Fan interest will matter when expansion is revisited.
 
02-15-2018 08:33 AM
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UCbball21 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 08:28 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(02-15-2018 08:17 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The BE money is now gone. Time to your donations

Here is an uplifting POV:

We gave the entire $10 million we got out of the BE deal to Tommy Tubberville for his 4 years.

Stop the Earth....I want off. 03-lmfao

This makes me physically ill 03-puke
 
02-15-2018 08:40 AM
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RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-15-2018 08:26 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(02-15-2018 08:10 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  I’m thinking we’d have been better off keeping the name

Perhaps, but I don't think Cincinnati or UConn expected to still be in the AAC in 2018 when that decision was made.

It was right to give the BE name to the Catholic schools.

I am guessing we will be in the B12 leftovers in about 4 years with TCU, KSU, ISU and Baylor so it probably wont matter.
 
02-15-2018 09:32 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
(02-14-2018 06:34 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  
(02-14-2018 04:31 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...ssion=true

In a nutshell, Mike argues "the worst teams in major conferences no longer stink". The schools in the P5 have such a disparity in resources that the strong recruits are choosing even the worst P5 schools over non P5 programs. There are several quotes from recruiting analysts who indicate the recruits are well aware of the "levels" and want to play at the "highest level"/P5.

He does state with the exception of UC, UConn, Wichita State and Gonzaga the rest are pretty much screwed.

There is absolutely cause to be concerned. This statistic is pretty damning...

Quote:In 1998, 67 percent of the top 100 prospects – as measured by the Recruiting Services Consensus Index (RSCI) -- committed to teams in the nation’s top six conferences: ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12.

By 2007, that percentage had increased to 89 percent.

In 2017, it was 95 percent.

That is why it is so critical for Memphis and UConn to revive their programs because right now the AAC is viewed as a 2nd tier league even though statistically they are a stronger league than the PAC-12 this year. It is absolutely hurting Cincinnati on the recruiting trail. Many top 150 prospects won't even consider Cincinnati because they don't play in the ACC or B1G. The UA, instead of Nike, affiliation probably hurts us a lot too but nothing we can do about that (hopefully the FBI comes down hard on the major Nike schools but they probably won't).

Football drives the bus, the more revenue P5 and football brings in to programs the better the facilities for revenue and non revenue sports. This is going exactly the way the P5 schools want it to go. It was mentioned in another thread but the money UC was getting each year from the BE buyout is gone, our revenues have decreased another ~ $7M I believe.
 
02-15-2018 10:16 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #40
RE: Decourcey: Power 5 Gap Now Noticeable In Hoops
I know people have brought it up frequently in different threads, but I am not so sure if UConn will ever be able to get back to their 1990-2014 baseline: at least not in the AAC. Even if they fire Ollie, they'll hire in a Dan Hurley kind of guy who will stick it out for three years max before leaving to go to a P5 school. Repeat and rinse for the next guy.

Memphis might be a different story given all the talent in their backyard, but I have to wonder how difficult it will be for them to pay for... err.. recruit all those Memphis kids in the future.
 
02-15-2018 10:23 AM
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