(01-30-2018 09:32 AM)MU ATO Wrote:  I went to a Football offensive coordinator thread and a future of Marshall hoops argument broke out.

Considering we don't know what a real OC does, we can be forgiven for being confused. LOL!

(01-30-2018 08:50 AM)Dorrej Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:21 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-29-2018 02:24 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 02:42 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  Not many are in love with Doc or Dan. Many herd fans can't seem to get past the '99 team. Many seem to think we should be Alabama. I have been only visiting herdnation etc just to see what latest "news" is, then I leave. One of the most toxic places to try to have a conversation. Many I respect on there, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone else.

We better be thankful we have Doc, he still has a few years left in him and made up a team to fear again during his time here, we didn't have that the entire Snyder era, many seem to forget that. Doc has also knocked off as many P5 programs as Pruett did, Purdue, Louisville, Maryland, lost a game the refs stole from us at VT. Pruett beat Clemson (6-6), SC (they were terrible), Temple (BE member, and a doormat). Beating BYU in the Motor City Bowl was about the same competition as beating NIU in the Boca Bowl. Dan took a little time but he has come along nicely, with home state recruits on top of that. Doc made these changes to satisfy the herd fanbase, so they better damn well come out and support this team next fall. With a home game against NC State, FAU, UTSA, its not half bad and not a reason to not come.

You really trying to compare Doc and Pruett? Doc couldn't hold
Pruetts jockstrap. You left off Pruetts wins against #6 big 12 vhamp kstate, losing to OSU on a last second field goal. Also beat Louisville a couple times. Doc blew the game at Virginia tech, by trying to sit on a lead like he always does, including not trying to score in OT, after VT didn't score in their opportunity, then we miss a field goal. 4 GW field goal misses, the last 2, doc pulled our kicker, who would have probably made at least 1 of them.

Doc is a mediocre head coach, and unfortunately, we are stuck with him until his contract expires.

And I don't know where you have been, but 95% of Herdfans love Dan.

Why not compare them, everyone else in herd fandom has. You guys act like we were undefeated every year under him and played in the toughest conference in D1, the MAC by far was not that, crap it was on par with the sunbelt during that time, we went 8-5 on year, 3 losses our first year in the MAC, one undefeated, and 2 losses two other times, Pruett also had the luxury of having high caliber talent waiting on him when he got here............Many many things are comparable, the only thing anyone can say is different is playing styles.

We can agree to disagree on Doc, like I said on my belief, we should be glad to have him, especially after the Snyder fubar.

Go to herdnation, you will see many that do not like him. Where have you been, one website? ok...

No one thinks Pruett was perfect, but he brought championships to Marshall. Doc has brought one championship, boring conservative games, and some of the most embarrassing losses in program history(6-60 vs WKU, 24-27 vs UNCC, 38-65 vs Akron, 24-41 Championship vs Rice(wasn't as competitive as final score), 17-54 vs UCF, 34-69 vs WVU(wasn't as competitive as final score), 7-44 vs Ohio).

Snyder was not a good coach, but his resume would be similar to Doc's if he played the same schedules.

We got beat at Toledo 42-0, lost more than once to hapless Akron teams, lost at home to WMU by 20, lost more home games as the conference began to improve. By the time we left the MAC, we were not the top dog anymore, all under Pruett's watch set up by Donnan. He took too many risks on players that never even played a down much less made it to campus, all the while butting heads against the scholarship reduction, You can not sit there and use those comparisons without doing it fairly. Pruett played VT, with a Leftwich led team and got smoked, Doc lost in triple overtime, Doc beat a 7-5 Maryland team, Pruetts best win was against a 6-6 Clemson squad... Do we need to go over all the losses in the 6-6 farewell season? the beating we took from Miami the year before? I loved the man as much as anyone, but my memory is very good and he was on the downslide.

You and any other herd fan that wants to compare things to Doc all the time, you think Pruett would done better than Doc, considering Holiday had to rebuild this team while playing with a few left over players, against the schedule he has had to play, and done better? There is no way to prove that, you know it, I know it. It is debatable at best.


As far as Snyder, his record wouldn't have changed, he reached his limit during his last season. Doc pretty much played everyone Snyder played and improved every season, 2013, the only teams worth mentioned that were gone from snyders schedule was UCF, Memphis was not good yet. Doc played ECU, Tulsa etc etc. What was his record that year with HIS players? 2016 sucked, crap happens, you wanna be stuck on that season, by all means do that, I will look at this past season, from 3-9 to 8-5. with a Litton led team......some of you make no sense and feel we are Alabama, it blows my mind.

(01-30-2018 10:25 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 08:50 AM)Dorrej Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:21 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-29-2018 02:24 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 02:42 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  Not many are in love with Doc or Dan. Many herd fans can't seem to get past the '99 team. Many seem to think we should be Alabama. I have been only visiting herdnation etc just to see what latest "news" is, then I leave. One of the most toxic places to try to have a conversation. Many I respect on there, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone else.

We better be thankful we have Doc, he still has a few years left in him and made up a team to fear again during his time here, we didn't have that the entire Snyder era, many seem to forget that. Doc has also knocked off as many P5 programs as Pruett did, Purdue, Louisville, Maryland, lost a game the refs stole from us at VT. Pruett beat Clemson (6-6), SC (they were terrible), Temple (BE member, and a doormat). Beating BYU in the Motor City Bowl was about the same competition as beating NIU in the Boca Bowl. Dan took a little time but he has come along nicely, with home state recruits on top of that. Doc made these changes to satisfy the herd fanbase, so they better damn well come out and support this team next fall. With a home game against NC State, FAU, UTSA, its not half bad and not a reason to not come.

You really trying to compare Doc and Pruett? Doc couldn't hold
Pruetts jockstrap. You left off Pruetts wins against #6 big 12 vhamp kstate, losing to OSU on a last second field goal. Also beat Louisville a couple times. Doc blew the game at Virginia tech, by trying to sit on a lead like he always does, including not trying to score in OT, after VT didn't score in their opportunity, then we miss a field goal. 4 GW field goal misses, the last 2, doc pulled our kicker, who would have probably made at least 1 of them.

Doc is a mediocre head coach, and unfortunately, we are stuck with him until his contract expires.

And I don't know where you have been, but 95% of Herdfans love Dan.

Why not compare them, everyone else in herd fandom has. You guys act like we were undefeated every year under him and played in the toughest conference in D1, the MAC by far was not that, crap it was on par with the sunbelt during that time, we went 8-5 on year, 3 losses our first year in the MAC, one undefeated, and 2 losses two other times, Pruett also had the luxury of having high caliber talent waiting on him when he got here............Many many things are comparable, the only thing anyone can say is different is playing styles.

We can agree to disagree on Doc, like I said on my belief, we should be glad to have him, especially after the Snyder fubar.

Go to herdnation, you will see many that do not like him. Where have you been, one website? ok...

No one thinks Pruett was perfect, but he brought championships to Marshall. Doc has brought one championship, boring conservative games, and some of the most embarrassing losses in program history(6-60 vs WKU, 24-27 vs UNCC, 38-65 vs Akron, 24-41 Championship vs Rice(wasn't as competitive as final score), 17-54 vs UCF, 34-69 vs WVU(wasn't as competitive as final score), 7-44 vs Ohio).

Snyder was not a good coach, but his resume would be similar to Doc's if he played the same schedules.

We got beat at Toledo 42-0, lost more than once to hapless Akron teams, lost at home to WMU by 20, lost more home games as the conference began to improve. By the time we left the MAC, we were not the top dog anymore, all under Pruett's watch set up by Donnan. He took too many risks on players that never even played a down much less made it to campus, all the while butting heads against the scholarship reduction, You can not sit there and use those comparisons without doing it fairly. Pruett played VT, with a Leftwich led team and got smoked, Doc lost in triple overtime, Doc beat a 7-5 Maryland team, Pruetts best win was against a 6-6 Clemson squad... Do we need to go over all the losses in the 6-6 farewell season? the beating we took from Miami the year before? I loved the man as much as anyone, but my memory is very good and he was on the downslide.

You and any other herd fan that wants to compare things to Doc all the time, you think Pruett would done better than Doc, considering Holiday had to rebuild this team while playing with a few left over players, against the schedule he has had to play, and done better? There is no way to prove that, you know it, I know it. It is debatable at best.


As far as Snyder, his record wouldn't have changed, he reached his limit during his last season. Doc pretty much played everyone Snyder played and improved every season, 2013, the only teams worth mentioned that were gone from snyders schedule was UCF, Memphis was not good yet. Doc played ECU, Tulsa etc etc. What was his record that year with HIS players? 2016 sucked, crap happens, you wanna be stuck on that season, by all means do that, I will look at this past season, from 3-9 to 8-5. with a Litton led team......some of you make no sense and feel we are Alabama, it blows my mind.

The fact that you bring up the OT loss to VT as a positive shows how bad Docs resume is. The only reason we lost that game is because conservative Doc got a 7 point lead and shut down the offense. He had a chance to win it in OT after we stopped them but he settled for a FG and ran it up the gut three times instead of trying to get a 1st.

Pruett definitely fell off at the end, but your memory isnt very good if you think 6-6 Clemson was Pruetts best win. Not #6 Kansas State? Not #25 BYU? Not 1 of his 5 Championship Wins?


I don't see us finding common ground if you think 1 championship in 9 seasons and winning <1/3 of games against teams with a pulse is acceptable.

And it doesn't take Alabama to be a top team in CUSA every year...

(01-30-2018 11:51 AM)Dorrej Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 10:25 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 08:50 AM)Dorrej Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:21 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-29-2018 02:24 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  You really trying to compare Doc and Pruett? Doc couldn't hold
Pruetts jockstrap. You left off Pruetts wins against #6 big 12 vhamp kstate, losing to OSU on a last second field goal. Also beat Louisville a couple times. Doc blew the game at Virginia tech, by trying to sit on a lead like he always does, including not trying to score in OT, after VT didn't score in their opportunity, then we miss a field goal. 4 GW field goal misses, the last 2, doc pulled our kicker, who would have probably made at least 1 of them.

Doc is a mediocre head coach, and unfortunately, we are stuck with him until his contract expires.

And I don't know where you have been, but 95% of Herdfans love Dan.

Why not compare them, everyone else in herd fandom has. You guys act like we were undefeated every year under him and played in the toughest conference in D1, the MAC by far was not that, crap it was on par with the sunbelt during that time, we went 8-5 on year, 3 losses our first year in the MAC, one undefeated, and 2 losses two other times, Pruett also had the luxury of having high caliber talent waiting on him when he got here............Many many things are comparable, the only thing anyone can say is different is playing styles.

We can agree to disagree on Doc, like I said on my belief, we should be glad to have him, especially after the Snyder fubar.

Go to herdnation, you will see many that do not like him. Where have you been, one website? ok...

No one thinks Pruett was perfect, but he brought championships to Marshall. Doc has brought one championship, boring conservative games, and some of the most embarrassing losses in program history(6-60 vs WKU, 24-27 vs UNCC, 38-65 vs Akron, 24-41 Championship vs Rice(wasn't as competitive as final score), 17-54 vs UCF, 34-69 vs WVU(wasn't as competitive as final score), 7-44 vs Ohio).

Snyder was not a good coach, but his resume would be similar to Doc's if he played the same schedules.

We got beat at Toledo 42-0, lost more than once to hapless Akron teams, lost at home to WMU by 20, lost more home games as the conference began to improve. By the time we left the MAC, we were not the top dog anymore, all under Pruett's watch set up by Donnan. He took too many risks on players that never even played a down much less made it to campus, all the while butting heads against the scholarship reduction, You can not sit there and use those comparisons without doing it fairly. Pruett played VT, with a Leftwich led team and got smoked, Doc lost in triple overtime, Doc beat a 7-5 Maryland team, Pruetts best win was against a 6-6 Clemson squad... Do we need to go over all the losses in the 6-6 farewell season? the beating we took from Miami the year before? I loved the man as much as anyone, but my memory is very good and he was on the downslide.

You and any other herd fan that wants to compare things to Doc all the time, you think Pruett would done better than Doc, considering Holiday had to rebuild this team while playing with a few left over players, against the schedule he has had to play, and done better? There is no way to prove that, you know it, I know it. It is debatable at best.


As far as Snyder, his record wouldn't have changed, he reached his limit during his last season. Doc pretty much played everyone Snyder played and improved every season, 2013, the only teams worth mentioned that were gone from snyders schedule was UCF, Memphis was not good yet. Doc played ECU, Tulsa etc etc. What was his record that year with HIS players? 2016 sucked, crap happens, you wanna be stuck on that season, by all means do that, I will look at this past season, from 3-9 to 8-5. with a Litton led team......some of you make no sense and feel we are Alabama, it blows my mind.

The fact that you bring up the OT loss to VT as a positive shows how bad Docs resume is. The only reason we lost that game is because conservative Doc got a 7 point lead and shut down the offense. He had a chance to win it in OT after we stopped them but he settled for a FG and ran it up the gut three times instead of trying to get a 1st.

Pruett definitely fell off at the end, but your memory isnt very good if you think 6-6 Clemson was Pruetts best win. Not #6 Kansas State? Not #25 BYU? Not 1 of his 5 Championship Wins?


I don't see us finding common ground if you think 1 championship in 9 seasons and winning <1/3 of games against teams with a pulse is acceptable.

And it doesn't take Alabama to be a top team in CUSA every year...

Listen, I am not trying to belittle or argue with a fellow herd fan, honestly I forgot about the K-State win, getting beat down that same year by Miami kinda squashed the glory of that game, and no bowl game that year as a result. BYU was no better than NIU, but then again that is referencing the 99 season vs. the '14 season as herd fans seem to be stuck on.

Not saying we should be satisfied, we should always push for more, BUT and its a big BUT, we are limited on resources like most in a G5 conference. Doc has done a good job, not excellent, not bad. I have never been a fan that becomes dissatisfied with a winning season and occasional run at a championship, we saw too much losing with Snyder and seen too much what happens like at Nebraska, what happened to southern miss, im sure there are some that don't immediately come to mind.

Times have changed my friend, we are no longer in a hapless MAC, if we rejoined it today, we would find out quick it isn't the MAC we joined in 1997. That league only had one or two teams that could compete at that time, we had layup after layup for a few years. CUSA isn't the MAC of 1997, I will leave it at that. Other schools here have the same or better resources than we do, so why should we be "winning" this conference every year, that's a slap in the face of every other school that has the same goal, its not a feasible or sustainable idea. The idea is to try, be successful, some years we will have the upper hand, some years other schools will catch lightning in a bottle like WKU did, like FAU is doing, hell look at them, in one year, with the right leadership, they found success and became a team no one in this conference could beat, we were the only ones who came close. Like the rest of the MAC did before we left, schools put in the resources and improved. There are no more days of us dominating year in, year out and it wouldn't matter who the coach was. Ohio has become what Bowling Green used to be for us, a place we go in favored and lose. If we replaced Doc with another coach, the chances of it going south is much higher than anything going north.

(01-30-2018 10:25 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 08:50 AM)Dorrej Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:21 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-29-2018 02:24 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  

(01-24-2018 02:42 PM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  Not many are in love with Doc or Dan. Many herd fans can't seem to get past the '99 team. Many seem to think we should be Alabama. I have been only visiting herdnation etc just to see what latest "news" is, then I leave. One of the most toxic places to try to have a conversation. Many I respect on there, but it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone else.

We better be thankful we have Doc, he still has a few years left in him and made up a team to fear again during his time here, we didn't have that the entire Snyder era, many seem to forget that. Doc has also knocked off as many P5 programs as Pruett did, Purdue, Louisville, Maryland, lost a game the refs stole from us at VT. Pruett beat Clemson (6-6), SC (they were terrible), Temple (BE member, and a doormat). Beating BYU in the Motor City Bowl was about the same competition as beating NIU in the Boca Bowl. Dan took a little time but he has come along nicely, with home state recruits on top of that. Doc made these changes to satisfy the herd fanbase, so they better damn well come out and support this team next fall. With a home game against NC State, FAU, UTSA, its not half bad and not a reason to not come.

You really trying to compare Doc and Pruett? Doc couldn't hold
Pruetts jockstrap. You left off Pruetts wins against #6 big 12 vhamp kstate, losing to OSU on a last second field goal. Also beat Louisville a couple times. Doc blew the game at Virginia tech, by trying to sit on a lead like he always does, including not trying to score in OT, after VT didn't score in their opportunity, then we miss a field goal. 4 GW field goal misses, the last 2, doc pulled our kicker, who would have probably made at least 1 of them.

Doc is a mediocre head coach, and unfortunately, we are stuck with him until his contract expires.

And I don't know where you have been, but 95% of Herdfans love Dan.

Why not compare them, everyone else in herd fandom has. You guys act like we were undefeated every year under him and played in the toughest conference in D1, the MAC by far was not that, crap it was on par with the sunbelt during that time, we went 8-5 on year, 3 losses our first year in the MAC, one undefeated, and 2 losses two other times, Pruett also had the luxury of having high caliber talent waiting on him when he got here............Many many things are comparable, the only thing anyone can say is different is playing styles.

We can agree to disagree on Doc, like I said on my belief, we should be glad to have him, especially after the Snyder fubar.

Go to herdnation, you will see many that do not like him. Where have you been, one website? ok...

No one thinks Pruett was perfect, but he brought championships to Marshall. Doc has brought one championship, boring conservative games, and some of the most embarrassing losses in program history(6-60 vs WKU, 24-27 vs UNCC, 38-65 vs Akron, 24-41 Championship vs Rice(wasn't as competitive as final score), 17-54 vs UCF, 34-69 vs WVU(wasn't as competitive as final score), 7-44 vs Ohio).

Snyder was not a good coach, but his resume would be similar to Doc's if he played the same schedules.

We got beat at Toledo 42-0, lost more than once to hapless Akron teams, lost at home to WMU by 20, lost more home games as the conference began to improve. By the time we left the MAC, we were not the top dog anymore, all under Pruett's watch set up by Donnan. He took too many risks on players that never even played a down much less made it to campus, all the while butting heads against the scholarship reduction, You can not sit there and use those comparisons without doing it fairly. Pruett played VT, with a Leftwich led team and got smoked, Doc lost in triple overtime, Doc beat a 7-5 Maryland team, Pruetts best win was against a 6-6 Clemson squad... Do we need to go over all the losses in the 6-6 farewell season? the beating we took from Miami the year before? I loved the man as much as anyone, but my memory is very good and he was on the downslide.

You and any other herd fan that wants to compare things to Doc all the time, you think Pruett would done better than Doc, considering Holiday had to rebuild this team while playing with a few left over players, against the schedule he has had to play, and done better? There is no way to prove that, you know it, I know it. It is debatable at best.


As far as Snyder, his record wouldn't have changed, he reached his limit during his last season. Doc pretty much played everyone Snyder played and improved every season, 2013, the only teams worth mentioned that were gone from snyders schedule was UCF, Memphis was not good yet. Doc played ECU, Tulsa etc etc. What was his record that year with HIS players? 2016 sucked, crap happens, you wanna be stuck on that season, by all means do that, I will look at this past season, from 3-9 to 8-5. with a Litton led team......some of you make no sense and feel we are Alabama, it blows my mind.

(01-30-2018 01:58 PM)herdfifteen Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 10:25 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 08:50 AM)Dorrej Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:21 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-29-2018 02:24 AM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  You really trying to compare Doc and Pruett? Doc couldn't hold
Pruetts jockstrap. You left off Pruetts wins against #6 big 12 vhamp kstate, losing to OSU on a last second field goal. Also beat Louisville a couple times. Doc blew the game at Virginia tech, by trying to sit on a lead like he always does, including not trying to score in OT, after VT didn't score in their opportunity, then we miss a field goal. 4 GW field goal misses, the last 2, doc pulled our kicker, who would have probably made at least 1 of them.

Doc is a mediocre head coach, and unfortunately, we are stuck with him until his contract expires.

And I don't know where you have been, but 95% of Herdfans love Dan.

Why not compare them, everyone else in herd fandom has. You guys act like we were undefeated every year under him and played in the toughest conference in D1, the MAC by far was not that, crap it was on par with the sunbelt during that time, we went 8-5 on year, 3 losses our first year in the MAC, one undefeated, and 2 losses two other times, Pruett also had the luxury of having high caliber talent waiting on him when he got here............Many many things are comparable, the only thing anyone can say is different is playing styles.

We can agree to disagree on Doc, like I said on my belief, we should be glad to have him, especially after the Snyder fubar.

Go to herdnation, you will see many that do not like him. Where have you been, one website? ok...

No one thinks Pruett was perfect, but he brought championships to Marshall. Doc has brought one championship, boring conservative games, and some of the most embarrassing losses in program history(6-60 vs WKU, 24-27 vs UNCC, 38-65 vs Akron, 24-41 Championship vs Rice(wasn't as competitive as final score), 17-54 vs UCF, 34-69 vs WVU(wasn't as competitive as final score), 7-44 vs Ohio).

Snyder was not a good coach, but his resume would be similar to Doc's if he played the same schedules.

We got beat at Toledo 42-0, lost more than once to hapless Akron teams, lost at home to WMU by 20, lost more home games as the conference began to improve. By the time we left the MAC, we were not the top dog anymore, all under Pruett's watch set up by Donnan. He took too many risks on players that never even played a down much less made it to campus, all the while butting heads against the scholarship reduction, You can not sit there and use those comparisons without doing it fairly. Pruett played VT, with a Leftwich led team and got smoked, Doc lost in triple overtime, Doc beat a 7-5 Maryland team, Pruetts best win was against a 6-6 Clemson squad... Do we need to go over all the losses in the 6-6 farewell season? the beating we took from Miami the year before? I loved the man as much as anyone, but my memory is very good and he was on the downslide.

You and any other herd fan that wants to compare things to Doc all the time, you think Pruett would done better than Doc, considering Holiday had to rebuild this team while playing with a few left over players, against the schedule he has had to play, and done better? There is no way to prove that, you know it, I know it. It is debatable at best.


As far as Snyder, his record wouldn't have changed, he reached his limit during his last season. Doc pretty much played everyone Snyder played and improved every season, 2013, the only teams worth mentioned that were gone from snyders schedule was UCF, Memphis was not good yet. Doc played ECU, Tulsa etc etc. What was his record that year with HIS players? 2016 sucked, crap happens, you wanna be stuck on that season, by all means do that, I will look at this past season, from 3-9 to 8-5. with a Litton led team......some of you make no sense and feel we are Alabama, it blows my mind.

Doc did not improve every year. 2012 took a major step back after a bowl year.

Fail to mention that Pruett was here 7 years. Donnan did not set up Pruett for 7 years. Donnan did not recruit Leftwich or Kresser, or Watts or Davis, or Goddard, or Randy Moss for that matter, and a whole lot more. Pruett's NFL count ran circles around what we have now. Donnan had zero to do with winning the MAC in 2000, 2001, 2002.

We lost some bad games in the Mac, sure. But it didn't take us four years to beat any one conference mate after 3 years of beatings. And the Toledo team you refer to also handled Penn State that year. And you want to call them worse than the Sunbelt? I don't recall the Sunbelt teeing off on the BCS and taking down 3 BCS and almost 4 in the same day. Pitt, KSU, and Maryland by Toledo, Marshall, and NIU, while Bowling Green gave Ohio State all they wanted the same day losing by a touchdown in the end.

Also fail to mention that the style we used had people excited. Win or lose people came to watch us air it out and score. It's boring, now. Even in 2014, when we could have put 70 on most teams at will, we got pinched off at 40 in games we were winning.

I understand that we can't go back there. But I'm hoping to get back to that kind of Marshall football. In order for that to happen Doc needs to stay the hell out of it and let the people he hired do what he hired them to do. His legacy should be that he got the right guys to do the job. Not that he interfered with the guys to our detriment every chance that he could.

(01-30-2018 06:40 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 01:58 PM)herdfifteen Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 10:25 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 08:50 AM)Dorrej Wrote:  

(01-30-2018 07:21 AM)beefcake0520 Wrote:  Why not compare them, everyone else in herd fandom has. You guys act like we were undefeated every year under him and played in the toughest conference in D1, the MAC by far was not that, crap it was on par with the sunbelt during that time, we went 8-5 on year, 3 losses our first year in the MAC, one undefeated, and 2 losses two other times, Pruett also had the luxury of having high caliber talent waiting on him when he got here............Many many things are comparable, the only thing anyone can say is different is playing styles.

We can agree to disagree on Doc, like I said on my belief, we should be glad to have him, especially after the Snyder fubar.

Go to herdnation, you will see many that do not like him. Where have you been, one website? ok...

No one thinks Pruett was perfect, but he brought championships to Marshall. Doc has brought one championship, boring conservative games, and some of the most embarrassing losses in program history(6-60 vs WKU, 24-27 vs UNCC, 38-65 vs Akron, 24-41 Championship vs Rice(wasn't as competitive as final score), 17-54 vs UCF, 34-69 vs WVU(wasn't as competitive as final score), 7-44 vs Ohio).

Snyder was not a good coach, but his resume would be similar to Doc's if he played the same schedules.

We got beat at Toledo 42-0, lost more than once to hapless Akron teams, lost at home to WMU by 20, lost more home games as the conference began to improve. By the time we left the MAC, we were not the top dog anymore, all under Pruett's watch set up by Donnan. He took too many risks on players that never even played a down much less made it to campus, all the while butting heads against the scholarship reduction, You can not sit there and use those comparisons without doing it fairly. Pruett played VT, with a Leftwich led team and got smoked, Doc lost in triple overtime, Doc beat a 7-5 Maryland team, Pruetts best win was against a 6-6 Clemson squad... Do we need to go over all the losses in the 6-6 farewell season? the beating we took from Miami the year before? I loved the man as much as anyone, but my memory is very good and he was on the downslide.

You and any other herd fan that wants to compare things to Doc all the time, you think Pruett would done better than Doc, considering Holiday had to rebuild this team while playing with a few left over players, against the schedule he has had to play, and done better? There is no way to prove that, you know it, I know it. It is debatable at best.


As far as Snyder, his record wouldn't have changed, he reached his limit during his last season. Doc pretty much played everyone Snyder played and improved every season, 2013, the only teams worth mentioned that were gone from snyders schedule was UCF, Memphis was not good yet. Doc played ECU, Tulsa etc etc. What was his record that year with HIS players? 2016 sucked, crap happens, you wanna be stuck on that season, by all means do that, I will look at this past season, from 3-9 to 8-5. with a Litton led team......some of you make no sense and feel we are Alabama, it blows my mind.

Doc did not improve every year. 2012 took a major step back after a bowl year.

Fail to mention that Pruett was here 7 years. Donnan did not set up Pruett for 7 years. Donnan did not recruit Leftwich or Kresser, or Watts or Davis, or Goddard, or Randy Moss for that matter, and a whole lot more. Pruett's NFL count ran circles around what we have now. Donnan had zero to do with winning the MAC in 2000, 2001, 2002.

We lost some bad games in the Mac, sure. But it didn't take us four years to beat any one conference mate after 3 years of beatings. And the Toledo team you refer to also handled Penn State that year. And you want to call them worse than the Sunbelt? I don't recall the Sunbelt teeing off on the BCS and taking down 3 BCS and almost 4 in the same day. Pitt, KSU, and Maryland by Toledo, Marshall, and NIU, while Bowling Green gave Ohio State all they wanted the same day losing by a touchdown in the end.

Also fail to mention that the style we used had people excited. Win or lose people came to watch us air it out and score. It's boring, now. Even in 2014, when we could have put 70 on most teams at will, we got pinched off at 40 in games we were winning.

I understand that we can't go back there. But I'm hoping to get back to that kind of Marshall football. In order for that to happen Doc needs to stay the hell out of it and let the people he hired do what he hired them to do. His legacy should be that he got the right guys to do the job. Not that he interfered with the guys to our detriment every chance that he could.

I respect your view of it. I will add that the strength of the MAC that you speak of didn't surface until 2003, we lost our first MAC title in 2001 due to no defense all year.....The strength of the MAC in 97 was abysmal, now tell me how much better than the belt they were at that time. I realize the belt wasn't even formed yet, so essentially the MAC in 97 was the belt. We came in an took that league over and it took them 3-4 years to catch up to us. In that 3-4 year span, we did have layup after layup, you can not argue that. This was the same time frame that I began my herd fandom. We aren't in a league like that anymore, and quite frankly I am not sure a league like that exists anymore in D1A. Even the belt made enough advances to not be everyone's homecoming.


Don't disagree with you about not letting the offense play all game when up, Doc is old school though, I don't expect that to change. I do expect it to not be so conservative all game though. 2012, we actually did make advances, it wasn't a step back overall. Our offense figured out how to play that year, it took a new defensive coordinator to make the overall team twice as good in 2013.

It's official!

http://www.herdzone.com/sports/m-footbl/...18aaa.html