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New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #1
New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
Background: two years ago, an SDSU master's student filed a thesis called "Fail Montezuma" that started a renewed discussion about whether or not the Monty Montezuma and the Aztec nickname should be dropped. That student became a lecturer and convinced the University Senate to pass a resolution condemning the mascot.

Now, that lecturer is in hot water. Turns out he's a pretty vile racist:

Lecturer who led mascot retirement fight discriminated against white student because of her race, investigation finds


Some of the more juicy bits:

"He said he did not have the Native American Student Alliance on his side in the mascot debate, attributing this to “a couple of white students who are members, who apparently have great grandmothers tgat (sic) are Cherokee Princesses (sic).”"
.....
“All in all, Monge uses ‘white’ whenever he wishes to explain someone who has done something wrong, or bad,” the investigation report concluded. In an essay to the investigator (my emphasis - because, wow, he truly believes this stuff), Monge wrote: “It is quite easy to argue that ‘whiteness’ is synonymous with evil.”"

He is also quoted as calling the president of the student body (who is black) an Uncle Tom.


The lecturer has been released from his contract. Hopefully this puts the whole mascot matter to rest.
01-19-2018 02:32 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
I like happy endings.
01-19-2018 04:35 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #3
RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
That was always strange to me. The Aztecs are no longer an identifiable group sort of like offending with Spartan or Trojan.

I did get a giggle over the Cherokee thing. World is full of people who think their great great grandmother or grandfather were Cherokees. Apparently the Cherokees were running all over North America hooking up. Most of those stories are utter BS and your great great grandmother or grandfather was Mexican or had genes from Africa (or less commonly Arab) and the Indian story was cooked up during Jim Crow.
01-19-2018 09:09 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #4
RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
(01-19-2018 09:09 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  That was always strange to me. The Aztecs are no longer an identifiable group sort of like offending with Spartan or Trojan.

I did get a giggle over the Cherokee thing. World is full of people who think their great great grandmother or grandfather were Cherokees. Apparently the Cherokees were running all over North America hooking up. Most of those stories are utter BS and your great great grandmother or grandfather was Mexican or had genes from Africa (or less commonly Arab) and the Indian story was cooked up during Jim Crow.

Right. This is like some people in Turkey being like you can not use the Trojan nickname as our ancestors were those people. I think if the Aztecs is a cool nickname. Having a nickname like the Aztecs is not offensive or a bad thing it is a cool thing to have a sports team named after you. That means your ancestors were bad@$$es.

Like in NC.
App State is the Mountaineers. People who lived in the mountains for centuries and had endured the harsh area to live. They were the original pioneers

ECU and the Pirates. Pirates (specifically Blackbeard and this crew) were once part of the British navy as privateers were cast to the side and went out on there on. The NC governor (located in Bath, NC) gave them safe haven while the VA and SC govern went after them. Good history

UNC Tar Heels - Name comes from either Revolutionary War or Civil War or maybe both. History of the state/colony of NC being big tar provider early in its history and their soldiers holding their lines well.

Wake Forest and the Demon Deacons - talk about a great mix of Baptist, Rich Tobacco men, and creating a tough looking mascot.

Charlotte & NC State - nothing really cool about their mascots. I guess UNCC with the gold rush maybe?

Anyway my point is having history behind your name is a cool thing and should not be changed, because some kids born twenty years ago wants to change it. They have no idea how their ancestors would have felt about a team using their name. I can tell you one thing and that if the teams were not using names like the Seminoles and Utes they would be forgotten in history by most.
01-19-2018 09:33 AM
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AntiG Offline
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Post: #5
RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
^ agree, plus its one thing where you have a native group's actual name (Aztecs, Seminoles, Cherokees, etc) vs a somewhat offensive one (Redskins) that at least there's a legit argument to change.
01-19-2018 09:41 AM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #6
RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
Fun fact: Georgia Southern's mascot was almost the Confederate Colonels to pay tribute to the Civil War history of the area. Thankfully, it was put to a student vote and Eagles beat out Confederate Colonels. I couldn't imagine trying to deal with a name like that in today's political climate.
01-19-2018 09:46 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
Fail.
01-19-2018 09:54 AM
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Post: #8
RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
Holy cow....

Quote:On Feb. 15, after she was enrolled in Monge’s class, Sudano attended a Native American Student Alliance presentation entitled “Why do you have to make it about race? Because our mascot is an Aztec” as extra credit for the course.

She told investigators that she rode her motorcycle to the event, and wore her hair in braids to keep it from getting tangled in the wind, as well as a neck sleeve up to her ears to keep her warm.

To Monge, it appeared Sudano was wearing a bandana and “rez tails” to the event — and thereby committing cultural appropriation. He told her in a message after the event that he was “glad you chose to remove your bandana and braids.”

Sudano didn’t understand why he was pointing this out, the report said, and when she explained why she was dressed like this, Monge told her that motorcycle culture appropriated from Native Americans.

“You have to stop and think for a moment the context into which you were about to enter and you had a bandana and your hair in rez tails,” he told her. “It may have been an innocent coincidence, but it can be subjected to an entirely different interpretation, within a specific context.”

If you have to put that much thought into not offending someone, then THEY are the ones who need help.
01-19-2018 10:14 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #9
RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
(01-19-2018 09:33 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(01-19-2018 09:09 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  That was always strange to me. The Aztecs are no longer an identifiable group sort of like offending with Spartan or Trojan.

I did get a giggle over the Cherokee thing. World is full of people who think their great great grandmother or grandfather were Cherokees. Apparently the Cherokees were running all over North America hooking up. Most of those stories are utter BS and your great great grandmother or grandfather was Mexican or had genes from Africa (or less commonly Arab) and the Indian story was cooked up during Jim Crow.

Right. This is like some people in Turkey being like you can not use the Trojan nickname as our ancestors were those people. I think if the Aztecs is a cool nickname. Having a nickname like the Aztecs is not offensive or a bad thing it is a cool thing to have a sports team named after you. That means your ancestors were bad@$$es.

Like in NC.
App State is the Mountaineers. People who lived in the mountains for centuries and had endured the harsh area to live. They were the original pioneers

ECU and the Pirates. Pirates (specifically Blackbeard and this crew) were once part of the British navy as privateers were cast to the side and went out on there on. The NC governor (located in Bath, NC) gave them safe haven while the VA and SC govern went after them. Good history

UNC Tar Heels - Name comes from either Revolutionary War or Civil War or maybe both. History of the state/colony of NC being big tar provider early in its history and their soldiers holding their lines well.

Wake Forest and the Demon Deacons - talk about a great mix of Baptist, Rich Tobacco men, and creating a tough looking mascot.

Charlotte & NC State - nothing really cool about their mascots. I guess UNCC with the gold rush maybe?

Anyway my point is having history behind your name is a cool thing and should not be changed, because some kids born twenty years ago wants to change it. They have no idea how their ancestors would have felt about a team using their name. I can tell you one thing and that if the teams were not using names like the Seminoles and Utes they would be forgotten in history by most.

Apologize for the veer here but there is a fantastic doctoral dissertation to be written by someone exploring the history of the Native American mascots being adopted.

The majority happened right around the start of the 20th century.

That means people were choosing that name while there were a decent number of veterans from the conflicts living and people who had survived raids.

To choose those names in that situation is fascinating (note we have no Viet Cong mascots or nicknames).

My gut feeling is the rapid rise of technology and urbanization led to people looking backward at the mythology of the noble Indian living a simple life.
01-19-2018 10:50 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #10
RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
My two cents on the Aztec issue is that's it's no more offensive than any other ancient warrior mascot. No one is upset about Trojans, Spartans, Vandals, Highlanders (NJIT, UC Riverside), or the Argonauts of CFL.
01-19-2018 10:55 AM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
As far as I know, people in Mexico don’t give two craps about the Aztecs being a mascot for an American college. They might find it flattering but that’s about it.
01-19-2018 10:58 AM
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
(01-19-2018 09:46 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  Fun fact: Georgia Southern's mascot was almost the Confederate Colonels to pay tribute to the Civil War history of the area. Thankfully, it was put to a student vote and Eagles beat out Confederate Colonels. I couldn't imagine trying to deal with a name like that in today's political climate.

Too bad the University was not named George-Anne University instead of a directional choice.

It would sound academic. George-Anne was/is the student newspaper.
01-19-2018 12:55 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
I don’t think that the Redskins controversy is a particularly close call. It is very clearly a racist name that Washington’s professional football team should have changed decades ago. How are they honoring a group of people by using a derogatory nickname? A name, by the way, which was always meant as a slur.

However, I don’t think names like Aztecs or Seminoles are remotely racist and they should remain. That said, I also think that’s up to the local team and it’s fans (or its students) to sort out amongst themselves.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2018 01:54 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
01-20-2018 01:54 PM
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
(01-20-2018 01:54 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  A name, by the way, which was always meant as a slur.

That is very, very debatable. Some of the oldest recorded uses of the word comes from the native Americans themselves (and not in the same way in which modern blacks use the n-word). That said, I agree that the football team should have changed the name long ago (like when they left Boston).
01-20-2018 03:53 PM
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
Apropos of nothing but the Aztecs were also the name of the Los Angeles NASL team in the 1970s. George Best and Johan Cruyff were their most noteworthy players, though both were toward the end of their careers. They aren't remembered much, outside of a throwaway joke in a recent Archer episode.

If a school named Arizona Tech ever comes into being, they could be the AzTechs.
01-20-2018 04:39 PM
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
(01-20-2018 04:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Apropos of nothing but the Aztecs were also the name of the Los Angeles NASL team in the 1970s. George Best and Johan Cruyff were their most noteworthy players, though both were toward the end of their careers. They aren't remembered much, outside of a throwaway joke in a recent Archer episode.

If a school named Arizona Tech ever comes into being, they could be the AzTechs.

Pima Community College in Tucson is the Aztecs.
01-20-2018 07:14 PM
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ODU1986 Offline
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New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
The Washington Redskins don’t need to change their name. I’m so sick of this crybaby politically correct BS.


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01-20-2018 10:05 PM
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CardinalJim Offline
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
(01-19-2018 09:09 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  That was always strange to me. The Aztecs are no longer an identifiable group sort of like offending with Spartan or Trojan.

I did get a giggle over the Cherokee thing. World is full of people who think their great great grandmother or grandfather were Cherokees. Apparently the Cherokees were running all over North America hooking up. Most of those stories are utter BS and your great great grandmother or grandfather was Mexican or had genes from Africa (or less commonly Arab) and the Indian story was cooked up during Jim Crow.

Reminds me of one of the Ancestry DNA commercials...

"I'm 25% French, 25% English, 24% Irish, 26% Native American"
"Finding out I'm Native American has opened whole new world to me. "

What about the other 74%....
Everybody wants to be someone else
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01-21-2018 06:34 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
(01-20-2018 10:05 PM)ODU1986 Wrote:  The Washington Redskins don’t need to change their name. I’m so sick of this crybaby politically correct BS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m tired of people crying about basic decency.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2018 03:22 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
01-21-2018 03:18 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: New Twist in SDSU Mascot Controversy
Again, if its the students that are complaining, even if they're being led by an outsider....its their right.

Because they're PAYING for the athletic department. SDSU's Athletic Department lost 26,282,000 in 2015-16, or about 750 dollars per year per student (including graduate ones).

So, if SDSU wants to exclude its students from input, then they should make the athletic department live within the confines of its revenue and make any athletic subsides/fees voluntary.

No clue about whether SDSU should remain the Aztecs. Just pointing out that if you make your program dependent upon the funding of people that you might call immature or snowflakes...that it carries a cost.

Quite frankly, if I'm SDSU's AD, the smart move is to figure out a way to make the protesters happy ( or less unhappy - there are ways to do it that don't necessarily involve getting rid of the Aztec mascot immediately). My guess is that Aztec as a mascot is going to be hard to maintain going forward. Eventually, they'll have to drop it. Might as well start thinking about ways to do so. I'd introduce a secondary mascot (like the elephant for Alabama for example) and gradually market that along with the Aztec mascot. In that way, the fans will be used to the new mascot when Aztec becomes unviable in about 5 years or so.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2018 04:02 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
01-21-2018 03:58 PM
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