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Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
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ken d Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 11:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 10:55 AM)megadrone Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  New York doesn't have an FBS team. Neither does San Francisco (although Cal, Stanford, and San Jose State aren't very far.)

New York has 2 pro teams.

In addition to Rutgers (10 miles from Staten Island, 35 miles from midtown), West Point (Army) is also in the NYC Metro area, so there are 2 teams in nearby range.

NYC has a few FCS schools within the five. Columbia, Fordham, and Wagner come to mind. You have Stony Brook, with a Manhattan campus, around those parts. And, if Rutgers is considered within the metro area, then let's not forget Monmouth. And, dare I say Princeton...another of those bridge and tunnel contributors with deep pockets?

Princeton falls within Philadelphia's orbit - not New York's.
12-30-2017 12:13 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
Looking at it that way, I would say Baltimore-DC’s teams would be Maryland, Navy, UVa, VT, PSU, and maybe WVU, although I would think that WVU would have less of a presence there and more of one in the Pittsburgh metro area
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2017 12:14 PM by DawgNBama.)
12-30-2017 12:13 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
RE: Princeton

They seem equidistant to me.
12-30-2017 12:17 PM
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WesternSkillet Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 12:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 08:58 PM)RandomFan Wrote:  Rochester does not have a D1 college.

Like Baltimore, Indianapolis doesn't have an FBS team, though they have FCS Butler.

I'd say they do have a team in Syracuse. Buffalo is also not terribly far, though Syracuse is a bigger brand and arguably the school for all of Upstate. Soon, Grand Rapids will overtake them as the largest although Western Michigan is an hour away.

WMU offers classes in two Grand Rapids locations, Beltline (actually had one class there) and downtown. The law school has one campus somewhere in GR too. WMU has over 1,500 students in GR and offers 20+ graduate degree programs ( more info ). Strategically, WMU needs to continue to develop its programs and presents in GR. So much opportunity in the area.
One last quick note, the 2016/2017 Nielsen Television Market combines Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Battle Creek as one market. WMU has campuses in all three locations. It comes in as the 44th ranked market. (Nielsen Info )
12-30-2017 12:57 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 12:29 AM)ArQ Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 08:58 PM)RandomFan Wrote:  Rochester does not have a D1 college.

Isn't Rochester 30 minutes from Syracuse? It is just a special town almost for Kodak employees only, or used to be.

In a metro area of about 1.1 million, Rochester is not and has not been a company for Kodak employees only, which is an absurd statement. (Kodak once had a workforce of 60,000 plus in Rochester but now less than 10,000). Xerox still employs about 15,000, Bausch & Lomb employs about 8000, Paychex employs about 5000, The University of Rochester employs about 18,000 and Wegmans employs about 15,000 etc..... In other words, its not a "special town for Kodak employees only." Rochester is also 90 miles from Syracuse.
12-30-2017 01:15 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
I think you're reading too much into what he said.
12-30-2017 01:21 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 12:13 PM)ken d Wrote:  Princeton falls within Philadelphia's orbit - not New York's.

Yeah, technically, Mercer County does fall within Philly's DMA. Princeton is right on the northeastern border. Oddly, Princeton stuff pretty much isn't in existence here. The Philly/NYC DMA borders are about as funky as anything I've ever seen. You have the actual Philly county far closer to parts of the NYC DMA than Philly DMA extremities (consider lower and central Bucks County to western Hunterdon County, to then Philly to those points versus Philly to Cape May County). And, really, it's NJ where it all gets weird. "Philly beaches" are Atlantic City and everything south...except it takes a bit of time to get to AC on down. However, you could probably get to Belmar from the Northeast in much faster time...Belmar, Spring Lake, and the Ocean County beach towns are all NYC.

If you live and work in these parts, it's very blurred. We talk about Rutgers being NYC and Princeton being Philly...take a drive on US 1, and it's not so obvious. A couple of strip malls, and we're supposed to believe we're in one versus the other?

There's a Rutgers campus staring Center City down from the other side of the Delaware River. Rutgers has no coverage in Philly.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2017 02:36 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
12-30-2017 02:10 PM
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megadrone Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 11:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 10:55 AM)megadrone Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  New York doesn't have an FBS team. Neither does San Francisco (although Cal, Stanford, and San Jose State aren't very far.)

New York has 2 pro teams.

In addition to Rutgers (10 miles from Staten Island, 35 miles from midtown), West Point (Army) is also in the NYC Metro area, so there are 2 teams in nearby range.

NYC has a few FCS schools within the five. Columbia, Fordham, and Wagner come to mind. You have Stony Brook, with a Manhattan campus, around those parts. And, if Rutgers is considered within the metro area, then let's not forget Monmouth. And, dare I say Princeton...another of those bridge and tunnel contributors with deep pockets?

Monmouth, yes, but Princeton is right on the border separating the NY part of NJ and the Philly part of NJ. It's a little wierd but goes with the territory here where the state identifies with the nearest large city in the neighboring state (outside of the Atlantic City area).

But for saying which team would be New York's team? New Yorkers are more passionate about pro football than college. No team will really be New York's team, and you have to consider Syracuse, Penn State, Michigan and Notre Dame as well.
12-30-2017 02:11 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
Rutgers could have been but that time has come to a close.
12-30-2017 02:40 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 11:28 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 12:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 08:58 PM)RandomFan Wrote:  Rochester does not have a D1 college.

Like Baltimore, Indianapolis doesn't have an FBS team, though they have FCS Butler.

I'd say they do have a team in Syracuse. Buffalo is also not terribly far, though Syracuse is a bigger brand and arguably the school for all of Upstate. Soon, Grand Rapids will overtake them as the largest although Western Michigan is an hour away.

Rutgers is closer to NYC than Syracuse is to Rochester but with that said, it's fair to argue that NYC doesn't have an FBS team, though it has a rich assortment of college teams in general, probably 20+ are a short subway ride from Manhattan. You could argue Oklahoma City doesn't have one though Norman isn't terribly far away.

Minnesota has only one D-I sports program, let alone one full scholarship football program.

I don’t think Bloomington is too far away from Indianapolis, so they do have that as an FBS option, although it could be argued it is not necessarily a very good one. Purdue is actually looks like it’s closer to Chicago, than Indianapolis, and South Bend looks like it may as well be a suburb of Chicago anyway, although it is a mystery that Chicago only has one true FBS team (Northwestern). U of Chicago used to have a team (and it played in the Big Ten too!!), but they dropped what was considered to be FBS at the time.

Purdue is about 1 hour from downtown Indianapolis and 2 hours from downtown Chicago (if there's no traffic). Neither W. Lafayete nor South Bend would ever be considered "suburbs" of Chicago. Chicago isn't even the closest airport to either town.

Last time I drove it, Bloomington was about 1 hr and 15 min from downtown Indy. But that is getting less and less every year as I-69 is being constructed along that route.

Purdue and IU are both technically outside the Indianapolis metro. But they're close enough that they are both the "hometown teams" of Indy residents. It's split by profession - doctors and lawyers are IU fans; engineers and farmers are Purdue fans.
12-30-2017 03:51 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
We have to break down the very large tv markets to very large cities. NYC could be broken down to five parts.

Rutgers west
Fordham central
Stony Brook east
Monmouth south

I am not sure what football school on the north side would be.

Los Angeles is another story. It is so spread out from northward, to eastward and southward.

Bakersfield do not have a football school. They do have a CC that plays football in a 20,000 seat city stadium that hosts the Bakersfield CC, the high schools and pro-soccer team. UC-Bakersfield could used that stadium if they adds football.

UC-Santa Barbara also is large enough and outside of the LA area to have FBS football as well.
Long Beach State would not effect the two P5 schools since they are not close to them.
Azusa is pretty large population/ They are in the central valley. They could be able to bridge to the eastern schools.
San Bernardino is further away from the two p5 schools along with UC-Riverside. They both could add and start football as well.
UC-Irvine is southern part the LA area.

San Francisco could be broken up as well.
East bay area have UC-Berkeley and Saint Mary's. On the southside could be separated from the northern part. Cal. State-Eastbay could cover that part. San Jose State covers the south central bay area.
Chico, Sonoma, Barstow, Escondido, Encinitas, Palm Springs, Poway, Redlands, San Marcos,Santa Clara, Santa Ana, Stockton, Modesto and some others are not covered really.

Huntsville in alabama only have Alabama A&M in the suburbs. Decatur, Gadsden, also do not have D1 schools.

The three major cities in Alaska do not have a D1 program.

Some western Arizona cities do not have a D1 program. Yuma, Lake Havasu City/Parker and Kingman/Bullhead City/Mohave/Laughlin NV are fast growing cities area. When I used to live in a campsite in Bullhead City, the town was barely 2000 people. Now, it is over 40,000.

Arkansas do have some large populated areas that do not have a D1 program. Texarkana, Russellville, Hot Springs, Batesville, Jacksonville, Fort Smith, Searcy, Benton, West Memphis, are large growing cities.

Large Colorado cities are Aurora, castle Rock, Centennial, Durango, Grand Junction, Lakewood, Longmont, Loveland, Parker, Pueblo and Thornton. Only three of them have D2 schools. Grand Junction, Pueblo and Durango.

Conn. have Bridgeport, Danbury, Fairfield, Greenwich, Hartford, Manchester, New Britain, New haven, Norwalk, Stamford, and some others.
12-30-2017 04:11 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 02:11 PM)megadrone Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 11:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 10:55 AM)megadrone Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  New York doesn't have an FBS team. Neither does San Francisco (although Cal, Stanford, and San Jose State aren't very far.)

New York has 2 pro teams.

In addition to Rutgers (10 miles from Staten Island, 35 miles from midtown), West Point (Army) is also in the NYC Metro area, so there are 2 teams in nearby range.

NYC has a few FCS schools within the five. Columbia, Fordham, and Wagner come to mind. You have Stony Brook, with a Manhattan campus, around those parts. And, if Rutgers is considered within the metro area, then let's not forget Monmouth. And, dare I say Princeton...another of those bridge and tunnel contributors with deep pockets?

Monmouth, yes, but Princeton is right on the border separating the NY part of NJ and the Philly part of NJ. It's a little wierd but goes with the territory here where the state identifies with the nearest large city in the neighboring state (outside of the Atlantic City area).

But for saying which team would be New York's team? New Yorkers are more passionate about pro football than college. No team will really be New York's team, and you have to consider Syracuse, Penn State, Michigan and Notre Dame as well.

Pretty much this....NY market is very fragmented. Cuse is Upstate NY's team once you clear north of the NY Metro. Upstate NY is about 7 million so not totally insignificant.
12-30-2017 05:41 PM
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UpStreamRedTeam Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-29-2017 11:09 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  New York doesn't have an FBS team. Neither does San Francisco (although Cal, Stanford, and San Jose State aren't very far.)

Rutgers is in the NYC metro, same with Cal and Stanford with the San Francisco Bay Area (San Jose is technically separate according to the census bureau).

Given how St. Louis no longer has an NFL team, it's a missed opportunity that Saint Louis U doesn't have a team and UMSL has a piss-poor athletic department. SLU in theory could've wound up in the AAC or UMSL in the MAC with decent followings for each, but neither decided to pursue football (or serious sports in general for UMSL). Missouri has always bled black and gold for Mizzou, interesting how Kansas City doesn't have a significant urban university sports program either.

West Point is also in the New York Metro.
12-30-2017 07:54 PM
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UpStreamRedTeam Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 12:17 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  RE: Princeton

They seem equidistant to me.

Well observed. Princeton gets both the NYC and Philly ABC, CBS, NBC affiliates.
12-30-2017 08:07 PM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
Do they root for New York or Philly sports teams?
12-30-2017 11:16 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-29-2017 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  New York doesn't have an FBS team. Neither does San Francisco (although Cal, Stanford, and San Jose State aren't very far.)

Rutgers and Army are both in Metro New York
12-30-2017 11:39 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 11:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 10:55 AM)megadrone Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  New York doesn't have an FBS team. Neither does San Francisco (although Cal, Stanford, and San Jose State aren't very far.)

New York has 2 pro teams.

In addition to Rutgers (10 miles from Staten Island, 35 miles from midtown), West Point (Army) is also in the NYC Metro area, so there are 2 teams in nearby range.

NYC has a few FCS schools within the five. Columbia, Fordham, and Wagner come to mind. You have Stony Brook, with a Manhattan campus, around those parts. And, if Rutgers is considered within the metro area, then let's not forget Monmouth. And, dare I say Princeton...another of those bridge and tunnel contributors with deep pockets?

some broader definitions of NY metro go even further and would include part of PA and more of the Hudson valley/ Bringing in Marist, Lehigh & Lafayette
12-30-2017 11:52 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
As far as I'm concerned, Metro New York ends along the Hudson River, at least to the west. Everything else is Northern New Jersey or even Pennsylvania. You'll notice that even Fairfield County is no longer considered Metro NY, with places like Stamford and Bridgeport being considered it's own metro area.

I say this because New Yorkers pretty much detest anything New Jersey and act like world doesn't exist outside the Bronx and their set of islands.
12-31-2017 12:20 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 11:52 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 11:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 10:55 AM)megadrone Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  New York doesn't have an FBS team. Neither does San Francisco (although Cal, Stanford, and San Jose State aren't very far.)

New York has 2 pro teams.

In addition to Rutgers (10 miles from Staten Island, 35 miles from midtown), West Point (Army) is also in the NYC Metro area, so there are 2 teams in nearby range.

NYC has a few FCS schools within the five. Columbia, Fordham, and Wagner come to mind. You have Stony Brook, with a Manhattan campus, around those parts. And, if Rutgers is considered within the metro area, then let's not forget Monmouth. And, dare I say Princeton...another of those bridge and tunnel contributors with deep pockets?

some broader definitions of NY metro go even further and would include part of PA and more of the Hudson valley/ Bringing in Marist, Lehigh & Lafayette

This is a good point. The US Census Bureau defines the New York-Newark, NY-NJ-CT-PA Combined Statistical Area, which comprises the following 8 Metropolitan Statistical Areas (counties in parentheses):

1. Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ (Warren NJ, Carbon PA, Lehigh PA, Northampton PA): Lafayette, Lehigh
2. Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT (Fairfield CT): Fairfield, Sacred Heart
3. East Stroudsburg, PA (Monroe PA): no DI schools
4. Kingston, NY (Ulster NY): no DI schools
5. New Haven-Milford, CT (New Haven CT): Quinnipiac, Yale
6. Torrington, CT (Litchfield CT): no DI schools
7. Trenton, NJ (Mercer NJ): Princeton, Rider
8. New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA (consists of 4 Metropolitan Divisions)
-- 8a. Dutchess County-Putnam County, NY: Marist
-- 8b. Nassau County-Suffolk County, NY: Hofstra, Stony Brook
-- 8c. Newark, NJ-PA (Essex NJ, Hunterdon NJ, Morris NJ, Somerset NJ, Sussex NJ, Union NJ, Pike PA): NJIT, Seton Hall
-- 8d. New York-Jersey City-White Plains, NY-NJ (Bergen NJ, Hudson NJ, Middlesex NJ, Monmouth NJ, Ocean NJ, Passaic NJ, Bronx NY, Kings NY, New York NY, Orange NY, Queens NY, Richmond NY, Rockland NY, Westchester NY): Army, Columbia, FDU, Fordham, Iona, LIU Brooklyn, Manhattan, Monmouth, Rutgers, St. Francis, St. John's, St. Peter's, Wagner

(schools in bold italics are in NYC proper)

So at its greatest extent, the NYC area includes 26 DI schools.
12-31-2017 01:00 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Largest metro areas without FBS, FCS, and DI colleges
(12-30-2017 11:52 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 11:38 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-30-2017 10:55 AM)megadrone Wrote:  
(12-29-2017 10:33 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  New York doesn't have an FBS team. Neither does San Francisco (although Cal, Stanford, and San Jose State aren't very far.)

New York has 2 pro teams.

In addition to Rutgers (10 miles from Staten Island, 35 miles from midtown), West Point (Army) is also in the NYC Metro area, so there are 2 teams in nearby range.

NYC has a few FCS schools within the five. Columbia, Fordham, and Wagner come to mind. You have Stony Brook, with a Manhattan campus, around those parts. And, if Rutgers is considered within the metro area, then let's not forget Monmouth. And, dare I say Princeton...another of those bridge and tunnel contributors with deep pockets?

some broader definitions of NY metro go even further and would include part of PA and more of the Hudson valley/ Bringing in Marist, Lehigh & Lafayette

Definitely. I grew up a bit south of the Lehigh Valley, but we got the paper from there (since its coverage area had more for us than the Philly-area rags). They loved their Eagles and Phillies...they also gave strong press to the Jets, Giants, and Yankees, too, though. It even got weird up in the A-B-E area stations for high school football, where they bleed for it...a station like WFMZ's base would include Easton as a core coverage team, playing all of the Allentown and Bethlehem-area schools. Easton sits right across the river from Phillipsburg; it's a known, historic school rivalry...P-Burg doesn't exist in news coverage, and hardly gets mention for its high school sports. It's like this once-a-year phenomenon where P-Burg is embraced and recognized. It's something like...10 miles away from Bethlehem? WFMZ covers the bordering counties to Lehigh and Northampton, but also extends out into the coal regions like Luzerne, Columbia, and Lebanon, too...the Delaware river and state line makes school districts mere feet apart from each other from two totally different worlds. It's ***-backwards.

And what's crazier about the Lehigh Valley...definitely closer to Rutgers than Penn State, but it's probably the cradle of PSU's most ardent supporters. They are totally nuts about the Nits up there.

Just as close to me growing up is New Hope, PA and Lambertville, NJ. Divided by the Delaware, and connected by a dinky bridge. New Hope is totally Philly. Lambertville is in Hunterdon County, 20 miles from Northeast Philly, and about 5-10 miles closer to Philly than where I grew up...NYC metro.

It is what it is. I wouldn't be surprised if DMA's aren't a relic in a few decades for the larger CSA's or reverts back to smaller MSA's. DMA's, at least around these parts, are just wonky, and determined more by county and state lines than specific towns or cities and their surroundings. Cord-cutting and the changing cable landscape will impact these local markets dramatically; it's already changed/evolved considerably during my short-ish lifetime, though.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2017 07:07 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
12-31-2017 06:49 AM
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