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Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #1
Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
OK, this is really weak evidence, a report from an Idaho fan at the ADA County Booster meeting, but Rob Spears comments Wednesday sound eerily similar on many points to EWU's Bill Chaves about the Big Sky.

Here is a paraphrase of Spears relevant comment by "joeyvee":
Quote:Too many teams in the BSC football and other sports. Needs two divisions. Talks going on regarding this (divisions) and the talks have started up again about a merger of WAC and BSC...this has a lot of possibilities, esp with two divisions.

There seems to be growing sentiment that a 2nd FB conference is needed in the West. But that comment about too many "other sports" is interesting, above and beyond the "merger" and "two divisions."

It is worth noting that Hurd is looking very old at almost 67 and his contract is up after next year. A "merger" of sorts could be a good way to retire. Just stick one additional year and 2020 makes the most sense with UND exiting in FB and CSUB exiting from the WAC.
12-22-2017 10:53 PM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
(12-22-2017 10:53 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  OK, this is really weak evidence, a report from an Idaho fan at the ADA County Booster meeting, but Rob Spears comments Wednesday sound eerily similar on many points to EWU's Bill Chaves about the Big Sky.

Here is a paraphrase of Spears relevant comment by "joeyvee":
Quote:Too many teams in the BSC football and other sports. Needs two divisions. Talks going on regarding this (divisions) and the talks have started up again about a merger of WAC and BSC...this has a lot of possibilities, esp with two divisions.

There seems to be growing sentiment that a 2nd FB conference is needed in the West. But that comment about too many "other sports" is interesting, above and beyond the "merger" and "two divisions."

It is worth noting that Hurd is looking very old at almost 67 and his contract is up after next year. A "merger" of sorts could be a good way to retire. Just stick one additional year and 2020 makes the most sense with UND exiting in FB and CSUB exiting from the WAC.

the last round of realignment the bsc commissioner at the time, doug fullerton, blocked the wac at every turn from expansion to horde as many football schools as possible...he didn't want any schools from moving up to fbs from fcs...this in turn killed wac fbs football and corralled teams to the bsc...the bsc got what it wanted...but created the bloated bsc conference that exists today...

granted that the commissioners of both the bsc (fullerton) & wac (benson) during that time have moved on there may be some reluctance to a bsc/wac merger due to the treatment the wac received last time around...
12-23-2017 12:38 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
The driver is the North schools wanting a compact conference, or the "old Big Sky." That is Montana, Montana State, Idaho State, Weber State, Idaho and Eastern Washington. They want to shed the Great West and California schools Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, UC Davis, Cal Poly and Sac State.

It's easy to see the North being happy to keep their core, plus Portland State and Seattle. I don't see what is in it for the South. Northern Arizona would get dropped in with the South, which would gain NMSU, GCU and CBU in Basketball. I'm not sure how UVU or UTRGV fit, but UMKC and Chicago State are probably already factored out.

While a "merger" with two Football conferences run out of the same building, 7 schools in the North (Big Sky) and 6 in the South (WAC), with 8 in the North Division for Basketball and 8 or 9 in the South Division. The problem is only one bid in non-football, and that would force a conference split. Nobody would want to be in the South and I don't believe that "division" would last very long. A couple schools would bail to other conferences and a couple would join the north group, leaving a couple others stranded. That is what I think would be the scenario by the 3rd year of such an arrangement.
12-23-2017 01:31 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
They would have to be separate conferences. 1 autobid in basketball will go away if they "merge". That is why CUSA and MWC did not merge a few years ago. WAC and BSC would have to be 100% independent leagues. If they have a working agreement for scheduling, that's fine, but would have to be separate conferences. I believe this would be beneficial to all BSC/WAC teams.
12-23-2017 11:31 AM
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Lopes87 Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
Big Sky

Portland St Vikings
Seattle Redhawks
Idaho State Bengals
Idaho Vandals
Eastern Washington Eagles
Montana Grizzlies
Montana State Bobcats
Weber State Wildcats

This group would cover Washington - Idaho - Montana - Utah 7 for football 8 for OLY's, I would assume SU would keep baseball another other current WAC/non Sky sports with the WAC.

WAC

Northern Colorado Bears
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
Utah Valley Wolverines
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
Grand Canyon Antelopes
Cal Baptist Lancers
Sacramento State Hornets
Cal Poly (FB Only)
New Mexico State Aggies
UT Rio Grande Valley Vaqueros

This group would cover California-Arizona-Utah-New Mexico-Colorado-Texas and would need another school to join at a full football member or football only member. I would think APU would be the team.

Gone

UMKC Kangaroos - Summitt/D2
Chicago State Cougars - D2/D3/NAIA
North Dakota Fighting Hawks - Summit (Right?)
Cal State Bakersfield Roadrunners - Big West
12-23-2017 12:09 PM
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Lopes87 Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
I would think like I said the "NEW" WAC would need to get APU or try and snag a Southland school that has football or have RGV start football or have NMSU to drop to FCS which won't happen just like how GCU will never have football. I mean not sure the rules on this but could they talk one of the pioneer league schools like San Diego to join w/o having to hand out scholarships to their student athletes?
12-23-2017 12:13 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
(12-23-2017 12:09 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
Big Sky

Portland St Vikings
Seattle Redhawks *
Idaho State Bengals
Idaho Vandals
Eastern Washington Eagles
Montana Grizzlies
Montana State Bobcats
Weber State Wildcats

This group would cover Washington - Idaho - Montana - Utah 7 for football 8 for OLY's, I would assume SU would keep baseball another other current WAC/non Sky sports with the WAC.

WAC

Northern Colorado Bears
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
Utah Valley Wolverines *
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
Grand Canyon Antelopes *
Cal Baptist Lancers *
Sacramento State Hornets
Cal Poly (FB Only)
UC Davis Aggies (FB Only)
New Mexico State Aggies *
UT Rio Grande Valley Vaqueros *

* no Football

This group would cover California-Arizona-Utah-New Mexico-Colorado-Texas and would need another school to join at a full football member or football only member. I would think APU would be the team.

Gone

UMKC Kangaroos - Summit (if move fails then D3 ... committee only recommended non-scholarship or D1, nixed D2)
Chicago State Cougars - D2/NAIA
North Dakota Fighting Hawks - Summit (2018-19) and Missouri Valley Football Conference (2020)
Cal State Bakersfield Roadrunners - Big West (2020-21)

I corrected your line-up, but that is exactly how I see it. Utah Valley geographically belongs in the North. But the entire aim is to get rid of the South schools. (They want to keep NAU)

On the plus side it gives Asuza Pacific a path to D1, as they can park football in the FCS WAC.

On the negative, decoupling Sac State football from the Big Sky group would leave them free to join the Big West, which almost everyone there wants (no, the UCs would not block it; the CSUs were worried that UCSD only would leave them in the back seat on all matters in a UC majority conference, but the UCs have no such fears). It's too obvious a fit.

Northern Arizona, Grand Canyon, and New Mexico State would be exploring outs, including joining the "Big Sky" (North). Ultimately I see the new Big Sky with 10 schools, 8 in Football. But the South/WAC would fall apart in a few years (except surviving as the name of a FCS conference)
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 02:49 PM by Stugray2.)
12-23-2017 01:10 PM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
(12-23-2017 12:09 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
Big Sky

Portland St Vikings
Seattle Redhawks
Idaho State Bengals
Idaho Vandals
Eastern Washington Eagles
Montana Grizzlies
Montana State Bobcats
Weber State Wildcats

This group would cover Washington - Idaho - Montana - Utah 7 for football 8 for OLY's, I would assume SU would keep baseball another other current WAC/non Sky sports with the WAC.

WAC

Northern Colorado Bears
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
Utah Valley Wolverines
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
Grand Canyon Antelopes
Cal Baptist Lancers
Sacramento State Hornets
Cal Poly (FB Only)
New Mexico State Aggies
UT Rio Grande Valley Vaqueros

This group would cover California-Arizona-Utah-New Mexico-Colorado-Texas and would need another school to join at a full football member or football only member. I would think APU would be the team.

Gone

UMKC Kangaroos - Summitt/D2
Chicago State Cougars - D2/D3/NAIA
North Dakota Fighting Hawks - Summit (Right?)
Cal State Bakersfield Roadrunners - Big West

i do like the idea of a gwc football schools + wac non-football school merger + apu...but what i noticed is that ucd is missing from the mix...so the modified the lineup would be:

WAC = gwc football + bwc football + bsc football

GWC football
Northern Colorado
Southern Utah

BWC football
UCD (FB only)
Cal Poly (FB only)

BSC football
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona

WAC
Utah Valley
Grand Canyon
UT Rio Grande Valley
New Mexico State (FBS)
Cal Baptist (FCS)

*Plus
APU
USD (FB Only)

*this scenario could give the wac potentially 6-9 fcs football schools...
Sac State (non-football) --> Big West or
Sac State (non-football) --> WAC

CBU, APU --> Pioneer League or
CBU, APU +USD (FB only) --> WAC

there's a lot of potentially different outcomes in these scenarios...
12-23-2017 01:21 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
03-puke Sacramento State and their sub-300 RPI? No thanks
12-23-2017 02:51 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
This is interesting. Since it is speculation at this point, I think any deal has to help both WAC Olympic sports and Big Sky football. No one out west will want to lose a western auto-bid for Olympic sports. It might make sense for the WAC to have a separate "football only" conference, similar to the Missouri Valley Football Conference.

That could get an additional auto-bid for FCS western football schools. The goal for two conferences would be to get more western schools into the FCS playoffs.

For the WAC, an agreement could mean Northern Colorado moving their Olympic sports to the WAC. They already have baseball and women's swimming and diving in the WAC. That would leave the Big Sky with ten basketball schools.

The Big Sky Conference has 13 football schools after North Dakota leaves, so ideally they need to add three football schools to make two conferences work. So any schools that might decide to move up or schools that might leave their current D1 conference could be added.

UTRGV could add football, although that seems like it is going nowhere. San Diego could join, although because of Title IX they would probably have a hard time competing in the Big Sky. They cannot offer football scholarships. Maybe a school like Abilene Christian could be talked into joining the WAC for Football or all sports? Maybe Azuza Pacific decides to move up?

Like I said, this is just speculation.
12-23-2017 03:01 PM
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Lopes87 Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
(12-23-2017 01:21 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:09 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
Big Sky

Portland St Vikings
Seattle Redhawks
Idaho State Bengals
Idaho Vandals
Eastern Washington Eagles
Montana Grizzlies
Montana State Bobcats
Weber State Wildcats

This group would cover Washington - Idaho - Montana - Utah 7 for football 8 for OLY's, I would assume SU would keep baseball another other current WAC/non Sky sports with the WAC.

WAC

Northern Colorado Bears
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
Utah Valley Wolverines
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
Grand Canyon Antelopes
Cal Baptist Lancers
Sacramento State Hornets
Cal Poly (FB Only)
New Mexico State Aggies
UT Rio Grande Valley Vaqueros

This group would cover California-Arizona-Utah-New Mexico-Colorado-Texas and would need another school to join at a full football member or football only member. I would think APU would be the team.

Gone

UMKC Kangaroos - Summitt/D2
Chicago State Cougars - D2/D3/NAIA
North Dakota Fighting Hawks - Summit (Right?)
Cal State Bakersfield Roadrunners - Big West

i do like the idea of a gwc football schools + wac non-football school merger + apu...but what i noticed is that ucd is missing from the mix...so the modified the lineup would be:

WAC = gwc football + bwc football + bsc football

GWC football
Northern Colorado
Southern Utah

BWC football
UCD (FB only)
Cal Poly (FB only)

BSC football
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona

WAC
Utah Valley
Grand Canyon
UT Rio Grande Valley
New Mexico State (FBS)
Cal Baptist (FCS)

*Plus
APU
USD (FB Only)

*this scenario could give the wac potentially 6-9 fcs football schools...
Sac State (non-football) --> Big West or
Sac State (non-football) --> WAC

CBU, APU --> Pioneer League or
CBU, APU +USD (FB only) --> WAC

there's a lot of potentially different outcomes in these scenarios...

There will be zero chance CBU starts football
12-23-2017 04:08 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
Terrible
12-23-2017 04:14 PM
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SeattleVandals Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
Would Weber State ever want to be in a conference with UVU?
12-23-2017 04:53 PM
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Raider_Lope Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
(12-23-2017 04:53 PM)SeattleVandals Wrote:  Would Weber State ever want to be in a conference with UVU?

Is there some bad blood there? Or is it just because they’re in the same region and don’t want to compete for recruits in the same conference or something? I don’t really know about the history between those two programs.
12-23-2017 05:12 PM
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RobtheAggie Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
I think that UVU and Weber would not really care that much. Neither really move the media dial in Salt Lake area. Odgen where Weber is does care about the school and UVU is still establishing itself.
12-23-2017 05:42 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
None of this is going to happen.
12-23-2017 09:01 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
(12-23-2017 09:01 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  None of this is going to happen.

Why not?
12-23-2017 09:34 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
Chris King said, not happening. He wouldn't likely say it is true, but one would think he would just ignore it, instead of outright denial.

https://twitter.com/UTRGV_AD/status/945321401032105986
12-26-2017 11:55 AM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
(12-23-2017 09:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 09:01 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  None of this is going to happen.

Why not?

Because it's bull$hit based on zero facts. Let's move on. There's nothing to see here.
12-26-2017 01:20 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Are WAC and Big Sky merge/split talks going on again?
(12-26-2017 01:20 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 09:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 09:01 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  None of this is going to happen.

Why not?

Because it's bull$hit based on zero facts. Let's move on. There's nothing to see here.

Then why post any comment? The source of the talks is Rob Spears
12-26-2017 01:56 PM
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