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Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
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ejd_5277 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
(12-04-2017 03:48 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  24 team play-off. Get rid of conference championship week. (Each conference can come up with their own system of crowning a champ after reg season) Take highest 24 rated in final play-off poll. Give top 8 teams 1st rd bye. Could use current bowl games to play games or better yet get rid of bowls and move games to home stadiums until championship. This model would have put 3 G5 teams in this year (UCF, S Florida, and Memphis)

I like both the 24 team idea and the getting rid of conference championship games, but I’m not a fan of your methodology for picking the teams.

In a field that big, all G5 conference champions MUST get auto bids. In your scenario, this year the AAC gets 3 teams in and every other G5 conference gets shut out.

Let’s remember that the NCAA basketball tournament doesn’t take anywhere remotely close to the best 68 teams...The SWAC and MEAC champions usually have an RPI in the low 200’s, and several other smaller conferences in the mid to upper 100’s.

Yet that first weekend is amongst the most popular in all of American sport... why? Because of the possibility of the occasional massive upset.
12-10-2017 12:04 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
Quote:24 teams, seriously? I think 8 is ideal:

I don't think 24 teams will actually happen, ever. The only thing that would push for 24 teams instead of 12 (or MAYBE 16 in far future) -- would be including all G5 champs. But IMO, any big pressure like that, there'd be a Much Much Higher chance they instead make another D1 sub-division created due to that... which would be the current G5+2 top conferences from D1AA, while AAC goes to the P5 (AAC going would appease much of G5 fans). 24-teams is just Fantasy for near & far far future, IMO.

8 ideal? I think not, though. Otherwise, there'd only be 4 "BCS Bowl" games, not 6.

Quote:- The (5) Power Five Champs.
- 2 at Large teams.
- The highest ranked G5 team.

No WAY would they make highest-ranked G5 an auto-bid in a mere 8-team playoff. Seriously. No way in hell. When the BCS had 10-teams, the top G4 had to be better than the bottom P6 And ranked 16+. It took a 12-team NY/BCS setup for an auto-bid G5, and that needed the AAC being kicked out of the P6 joining the G5 for even that to happen.

So prior to that, it was 10-teams in the mix. Even if AAC was G5 at that point, I could see it having more leeway, but still not an auto-bid. In the 10-team mix, Northern Illinois at #15 only got in because AAC was part of the P6 and Louisville was ranked surprisingly low + Wisconsin bad-year got to play in B1G Champ due to Ohio State sanctions and pulled an upset, so it was easier to be ranked above them. You had to be Top 12 G5 Champ to get an auto-bid (checked).

SO... with a mere 8-team Playoff -- yeah, no automatic auto-bid is going to happen for G5. That, I stake everything on. Heck, maybe even stipulations on the P5 Champ if ranked below a certain point since it narrows to 8, and this isn't just a star-studded NY Bowl, but a National Championship Playoff.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rules for an 8-Team Playoff Auto-Bids were: Any P5 Champ if Ranked in Top 16; Top G5 Champ if ranked above the lowest P5 auto-bid *or* ranked in Top 10 (or 12). So you could be ranked #13 if a P5 conference had an upset winner, and their champ was ranked #14.

What would be most Realistic + Make Most Sense: 12-team playoff, just taking the current NY6 bowls of 12 teams, and giving the Top 4 now a bye instead of a sole playoff, and facing the winners of the other 8 teams facing off in 1st round.
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2017 04:10 PM by toddjnsn.)
12-12-2017 03:33 PM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
(12-05-2017 05:52 PM)Bronco XXVIII Wrote:  24 teams, seriously? I think 8 is ideal:

- The (5) Power Five Champs.
- 2 at Large teams.
- The highest ranked G5 team.

Committee still picks and seeds. Have some sort of a first round bye.

04-cheers

Why would a WMU fan, or a fan of any other mid-major school for that matter, think it is good to treat G% schools like they are second class citizens. All D1 schools and conferences should play by the same rules. P5 schools should not have extra rights over G5 schools. All conference champs should get auto-bid, regardless of anything else. Then add some at large bids. Overall it would put G5 schools in a better position for recruits, for money, for media attention, and make a dent in leveling the playing field.

For those who root for the Walmart P5 schools more than they do their own school, or believe that we should be treated like the unwanted stepchildren of the NCAA, then you probably want to keep things the way they are. But those who see that it is about as fair and righteous as slavery was in the 1700's, they continue the two class system.
12-12-2017 04:20 PM
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Bronco XXVIII Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
^^
1.) I don't think you should judge my heart, or my commitment to WMU, when you don't know a thing about me.
2.) Have you paid attention to the college football land$cape the pa$t 20 year$? The P5 is not losing any ground. See toddjnsn's post above.
3.) My post was more a spontaneous, gut-check reaction (what I would like to see) scenario, more than reality.
4.) It would actually be a huge coup to get a seat at a 8-man table. The alternative is the (inevitable?) four P5 superconferences, with 16 teams each, that send their champs to the CFP.
5.) I am not happy about the two class system either. But when the 2017 MACC draws only 16k people...
12-12-2017 09:37 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
Quote:All D1 schools and conferences should play by the same rules. P5 schools should not have extra rights over G5 schools. All conference champs should get auto-bid, regardless of anything else.

I know where you're coming from, but I don't fully agree. Your POV would only push for the G5 (and Missouri Valley, the Super-SEC of FCS, and possibly another FCS) to have their own D1 division, to say "fine".

Where I disagree is that the P5 schools have a stronger SoS for almost all of it. Very lopsided. Combine that with bigger budget & fans -- the P5 & G5 are sort of like sub-divisions within FBS. "Better" than being an actual different division, or is it? Well, better for the Top G5s contending... but still better in many ways being able to get more money directly & indirectly (television, following) for everyone else.

The point is, they're not putting the G5s in a separate division (or putting AAC in P5, and making a G4) -- but could do something like that, where everything else remains the same, except the Playoff in each would only have their own (but non-conf games & general bowl games roll the same way).

So I do understand why P5s get auto-bid bowls (or playoff entries when playoff expands), when there's So few teams in a particular playoff.

BUT I also see your point. It can easily be avoided though where you can't complain. Just a tweak. Instead, for an 8-Team playoff....

1. Top 5 Ranked Conference Champs Auto-Bid, within the Top 12 (or 16)
2. The next Top 3 Ranked

Pretty much, 11/12 times, it's going to be the 5 P5 Champs getting auto-bids. And currently, even those with P5-hardons couldn't complain much, if, say, the P12 Championship had an upset by the weaker divisional winner who ended up ranked #14, while UCF #12 got the 5th bid. RARE. But it'd happen once in a great while.

Not enough to appease G5'ers -- and too much lack of Cinderella for general football fans. You wouldn't have "BCS" bowls outside those 8 playoff teams, so you'd be reducing the # of teams to a big stage. That's why I say -- just take the current 12 NY bowl teams, and turn the whole thing into a playoff.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2017 06:33 AM by toddjnsn.)
12-13-2017 06:30 AM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
(12-12-2017 09:37 PM)Bronco XXVIII Wrote:  ^^
1.) I don't think you should judge my heart, or my commitment to WMU, when you don't know a thing about me.
2.) Have you paid attention to the college football land$cape the pa$t 20 year$? The P5 is not losing any ground. See toddjnsn's post above.
3.) My post was more a spontaneous, gut-check reaction (what I would like to see) scenario, more than reality.
4.) It would actually be a huge coup to get a seat at a 8-man table. The alternative is the (inevitable?) four P5 superconferences, with 16 teams each, that send their champs to the CFP.
5.) I am not happy about the two class system either. But when the 2017 MACC draws only 16k people...

I did not judge your heart or your commitment to WMU; I asked a question.

The P5 schools/conferences have, over the course of many years, cornered the media market and politics of college football. I get that they have more appeal and are a bigger attraction, as that developed over the course of decades, many of which were in an era where media exposure was limited to radio and major network occasional TV coverage, and only the biggest schools got any attention at all. But regardless of the circumstances, those big traditional football schools, and their coat-tailing conference brethren have every right to take advantage of the larger "draw" they still have on a national scale, and I dont disparage them for that at all.

My problem is that the NCAA is a large governing body for college sports, and within college football it has ten Division 1 conferences. Just as the NCAA sets the rules of the game, establishing penalties, scoring system, how overtime will be played, etc., with the concept of fairness to each team on the field, the same principles of fairness and equity should be applied with respect to rules and everything else off the field. The old BCS and the current "Playoff" (what a joke) systems are specifically engineered, from the beginning, and applied throughout the entire process, to expressly and unambiguously provide an enormous advantage and windfall, financial and otherwise, to the P5 schools, with the conspicuous understanding that the G5 schools will not ever be given anything close to a fair opportunity to equally share in either the financial proceeds, the positive exposure or prestige that the football "playoff", and New Years bowls provide.

Understand this; there is a clear distinction between having a system which happens to be beneficial to certain leagues and schools, because those schools have more name recognition, a better football history, or just better teams, and a system which literally establishes clear rules expressly favoring the P5's over the G5's; which is exactly what the NCAA has done. They have every intangible advantage as it is; they dont need to spot themselves a 28 point lead to start the game too by fixing the system.

There is a reason why the P5's and the NCAA (which is run by the P5's) get away with this. Because everyone allows them to. The P5 schools fan bases (both legitimate graduates of the schools who convince themselves they are somehow entitled to special treatment, and the Walmart fans who cant read so they dont even know the rules, and would be too dumb to understand anyway) make up the largest portion of football fans, and they certainly are not going to protest about the G5's being left out of the mix. But the G5 people have acquiesced as well, and that bothers me. Many just accept their insignificant and powerless place at the little kids table. How can we all be D1 schools, and yet play under different rules? Why even distinguish P5 and G5?

This stuff has an effect on everything. Recruiting kids at a G5 would be easier if a kid knew he had a chance to play in the NCAA playoff. Just like when the NCAA Hoops tournament expanded, it would go along way to establishing parity between the P5s and the G5s. And then the financial benefits would allow G5s to increase their budget a bit, which would likewise help with equaling the playing fields. But that's just the point, the NCAA and the P5s dont want to equal the playing field. they want the huge advantage, and everything that goes with it.

EVERY D1 conference champion should get to play in the NCAA D1 football playoff. Figure everything else out after that.
12-13-2017 02:27 PM
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Bronco XXVIII Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
^^ Some good points, well articulated, without getting personal. Well played.
12-13-2017 08:21 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
(12-13-2017 02:27 PM)brovol Wrote:  
(12-12-2017 09:37 PM)Bronco XXVIII Wrote:  ^^
1.) I don't think you should judge my heart, or my commitment to WMU, when you don't know a thing about me.
2.) Have you paid attention to the college football land$cape the pa$t 20 year$? The P5 is not losing any ground. See toddjnsn's post above.
3.) My post was more a spontaneous, gut-check reaction (what I would like to see) scenario, more than reality.
4.) It would actually be a huge coup to get a seat at a 8-man table. The alternative is the (inevitable?) four P5 superconferences, with 16 teams each, that send their champs to the CFP.
5.) I am not happy about the two class system either. But when the 2017 MACC draws only 16k people...

I did not judge your heart or your commitment to WMU; I asked a question.

The P5 schools/conferences have, over the course of many years, cornered the media market and politics of college football. I get that they have more appeal and are a bigger attraction, as that developed over the course of decades, many of which were in an era where media exposure was limited to radio and major network occasional TV coverage, and only the biggest schools got any attention at all. But regardless of the circumstances, those big traditional football schools, and their coat-tailing conference brethren have every right to take advantage of the larger "draw" they still have on a national scale, and I dont disparage them for that at all.

My problem is that the NCAA is a large governing body for college sports, and within college football it has ten Division 1 conferences. Just as the NCAA sets the rules of the game, establishing penalties, scoring system, how overtime will be played, etc., with the concept of fairness to each team on the field, the same principles of fairness and equity should be applied with respect to rules and everything else off the field. The old BCS and the current "Playoff" (what a joke) systems are specifically engineered, from the beginning, and applied throughout the entire process, to expressly and unambiguously provide an enormous advantage and windfall, financial and otherwise, to the P5 schools, with the conspicuous understanding that the G5 schools will not ever be given anything close to a fair opportunity to equally share in either the financial proceeds, the positive exposure or prestige that the football "playoff", and New Years bowls provide.

Understand this; there is a clear distinction between having a system which happens to be beneficial to certain leagues and schools, because those schools have more name recognition, a better football history, or just better teams, and a system which literally establishes clear rules expressly favoring the P5's over the G5's; which is exactly what the NCAA has done. They have every intangible advantage as it is; they dont need to spot themselves a 28 point lead to start the game too by fixing the system.

There is a reason why the P5's and the NCAA (which is run by the P5's) get away with this. Because everyone allows them to. The P5 schools fan bases (both legitimate graduates of the schools who convince themselves they are somehow entitled to special treatment, and the Walmart fans who cant read so they dont even know the rules, and would be too dumb to understand anyway) make up the largest portion of football fans, and they certainly are not going to protest about the G5's being left out of the mix. But the G5 people have acquiesced as well, and that bothers me. Many just accept their insignificant and powerless place at the little kids table. How can we all be D1 schools, and yet play under different rules? Why even distinguish P5 and G5?

This stuff has an effect on everything. Recruiting kids at a G5 would be easier if a kid knew he had a chance to play in the NCAA playoff. Just like when the NCAA Hoops tournament expanded, it would go along way to establishing parity between the P5s and the G5s. And then the financial benefits would allow G5s to increase their budget a bit, which would likewise help with equaling the playing fields. But that's just the point, the NCAA and the P5s dont want to equal the playing field. they want the huge advantage, and everything that goes with it.

EVERY D1 conference champion should get to play in the NCAA D1 football playoff. Figure everything else out after that.

Agreed.
12-13-2017 10:00 PM
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NIU32 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
(12-03-2017 07:30 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  Round 1

BYE
1 Clemson (ACC Champ)
2 Oklahoma (Big12 Champ)
3 Georgia (SEC Champ)
4 Alabama (At-Large)


5 Ohio State (B1G Champ)
12 Troy (Sun Belt Champ)
Winner gets Alabama

6 Wisconsin (At-Large)
11 Florida Atlantic (Conf USA Champ)
Winner gets Georgia

7 USC (Pac12 Champ)
10 Boise state (Mountain West Champ)
Winner gets Oklahoma

8 UCF (AAC Champ)
9 Toledo (MAC Champ)
Winner gets Clemson

This is how it should be. In every NCAA sport, each conference champion should have a place in the post-season tournament. The selection committee still gets to seed the ******* thing. UCF fans would be HAPPY to be the 8th seed, because THEY STILL GET TO COMPETE. And, over just a few years, the recruiting landscape would shift drastically, as now, any year, any school has a theoretical shot at winning the national championship.

12-team tournament
Use the NFL Bracket
Committee's top 4 get byes
Committee can still be bought by lobbyists for 2 at-large schools/conferences
Can still use existing bowl$ for games/locations

North Coast Bias put basically this exact setup out there over 5 years ago... Is this where you took this idea from? If so you need to credit where it’s due. I agree, it’s definitely something that needs to happen

https://www.redandblackattack.com/2012/1...am-version
01-05-2018 02:44 PM
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Hiller4Hyz09 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Hiller4Hyz09 2017 College Football Playoff
(01-05-2018 02:44 PM)NIU32 Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 07:30 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  Round 1

BYE
1 Clemson (ACC Champ)
2 Oklahoma (Big12 Champ)
3 Georgia (SEC Champ)
4 Alabama (At-Large)


5 Ohio State (B1G Champ)
12 Troy (Sun Belt Champ)
Winner gets Alabama

6 Wisconsin (At-Large)
11 Florida Atlantic (Conf USA Champ)
Winner gets Georgia

7 USC (Pac12 Champ)
10 Boise state (Mountain West Champ)
Winner gets Oklahoma

8 UCF (AAC Champ)
9 Toledo (MAC Champ)
Winner gets Clemson

This is how it should be. In every NCAA sport, each conference champion should have a place in the post-season tournament. The selection committee still gets to seed the ******* thing. UCF fans would be HAPPY to be the 8th seed, because THEY STILL GET TO COMPETE. And, over just a few years, the recruiting landscape would shift drastically, as now, any year, any school has a theoretical shot at winning the national championship.

12-team tournament
Use the NFL Bracket
Committee's top 4 get byes
Committee can still be bought by lobbyists for 2 at-large schools/conferences
Can still use existing bowl$ for games/locations

North Coast Bias put basically this exact setup out there over 5 years ago... Is this where you took this idea from? If so you need to credit where it’s due. I agree, it’s definitely something that needs to happen

https://www.redandblackattack.com/2012/1...am-version

For once in my life (credit Stevie Wonder), this idea was an original of mine a couple years ago. I guess average minds think alike.
01-05-2018 02:48 PM
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