What exactly is "the process" Tubby says should be trusted? I'm sure it isn't the 'lowering of expectations' he suggested, or his lack of public relations, or not calling recruits or their families. All of that is doing nothing and a "process," at least to me, implies some sort of action. Does anyone know what this action is that Tubby wants us to trust?

The second question calls for more of an educated guess. How much more time do we have, using The Process'" before recruits and others forget what Memphis basketball once was and starts to be considered like a DePaul? Good once but really no longer relevant.

"The Process" is for Tiger fans to sit back and not question why they're recruiting at such a poor level, playing a terrible home schedule, and let Tubby get his $15,000,000. He's a HOF coach, and won it all 20 years ago. He knows what the expectations at a lowly non-P5 school like Memphis should be.

Memphis may already be DePaul, we just don't know it yet

Tubby after the season: "We were picked to finish 9th and we finished 9th. What do you people want? My God."

We are not DePaul because of our facilities. More like UNLV imo.

(11-16-2017 11:29 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  What exactly is "the process" Tubby says should be trusted? I'm sure it isn't the 'lowering of expectations' he suggested, or his lack of public relations, or not calling recruits or their families. All of that is doing nothing and a "process," at least to me, implies some sort of action. Does anyone know what this action is that Tubby wants us to trust?

The second question calls for more of an educated guess. How much more time do we have, using The Process'" before recruits and others forget what Memphis basketball once was and starts to be considered like a DePaul? Good once but really no longer relevant.

DePaul 2017 Attendance
2017: 4,922
2016: 5,513
2015: 6,238
2014: 6,363

We were at 9,622 last year and drew 7,224 for our first game this year. I don't think 2017 DePaul is doable this year, maybe next year. 2015 DePaul is definitely within reach this year.

Yes but what about this special knowledge Tubby claims ---- which he has named "The Process." Is it something that can be pointed to or is it more spiritual -- with Tubby as its holy man? Can we look at and try to understand "The Process" or must we make a leap of faith ---- one that contradicts our empirical experiences? I honestly don't know.

(11-16-2017 12:15 PM)Tiger57 Wrote:  We are not DePaul because of our facilities. More like UNLV imo.

Our facilities are MUCH better than UNLV's.

We have an NBA arena and a state-of-the-art practice facility.

Add two top 50 recruits and you will immediately attract a team.

If it takes another coach to do that, so be it.

(11-16-2017 12:19 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 11:29 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  What exactly is "the process" Tubby says should be trusted? I'm sure it isn't the 'lowering of expectations' he suggested, or his lack of public relations, or not calling recruits or their families. All of that is doing nothing and a "process," at least to me, implies some sort of action. Does anyone know what this action is that Tubby wants us to trust?

The second question calls for more of an educated guess. How much more time do we have, using The Process'" before recruits and others forget what Memphis basketball once was and starts to be considered like a DePaul? Good once but really no longer relevant.

DePaul 2017 Attendance
2017: 4,922
2016: 5,513
2015: 6,238
2014: 6,363

We were at 9,622 last year and drew 7,224 for our first game this year. I don't think 2017 DePaul is doable this year, maybe next year. 2015 DePaul is definitely within reach this year.

Is that announced or actual for DePaul? Need to be sure to keep it apples to apples.

DePaul got a new 10,000 seat arena so they have that to be excited about.

It's not just DePaul that is a comp.

St. John's (NYC)
Seton Hall (Newark)
Cincinnati
Marquette (Milwaukee)
SLU
Temple (Philly)

etc, etc.

The big city urban schools are taking a beating in this environment.
Lots of reasons:

- The vast disparity in TV revenue and exposure for P5 type conferences gives them an in for talent.
- Players are more willing to go to the state flagship or other programs outside their region more than ever.
- As the world condenses due to technology and travel gets cheaper and easier, it's more common to make campuses far from home.

It's harder and harder to protect your recruiting turf than it ever was. Memphis kids simply don't HAVE to go to Memphis.

Memphis can still be a great job, but it dependent on a coach being able to recruit, even if it's simply car recruiting.
You can still win with a 901 heavy lineup, but you have to keep more than you lose.

DePaul can't hold on to Chicago talent.
St. John's can't hold on to NYC talent.

These are the comps that concern me. If we can't compete for kids in our own backyard, we're going to have issues.

(11-16-2017 12:27 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Yes but what about this special knowledge Tubby claims ---- which he has named "The Process." Is it something that can be pointed to or is it more spiritual -- with Tubby as its holy man? Can we look at and try to understand "The Process" or must we make a leap of faith ---- one that contradicts our empirical experiences? I honestly don't know.

Welp the 76ers fans chanted 'trust the process ' for 3 years...while they deliberately lost games to get the best draft picks.

I wish the NCAA would even it out for us with charity commits like they reward the NBA loser teams with the best draft picks.

https://qz.com/890093/trust-the-process-...o-winners/


“Trust the process!” they screamed, as star center Joel Embiid motioned for them to raise the volume. “Trust the process!”

"In order to become winners, the 76ers had intentionally been one of the worst teams in professional sports history. And after three years, that strategy had worked. The 76ers have perhaps the brightest future of any team in the NBA."

(11-16-2017 01:02 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 12:27 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Yes but what about this special knowledge Tubby claims ---- which he has named "The Process." Is it something that can be pointed to or is it more spiritual -- with Tubby as its holy man? Can we look at and try to understand "The Process" or must we make a leap of faith ---- one that contradicts our empirical experiences? I honestly don't know.

Welp the 76ers fans chanted 'trust the process ' for 3 years...while they deliberately lost games to get the best draft picks.

I wish the NCAA would even it out for us with charity commits like they reward the NBA loser teams with the best draft picks.

https://qz.com/890093/trust-the-process-...o-winners/


“Trust the process!” they screamed, as star center Joel Embiid motioned for them to raise the volume. “Trust the process!”

"In order to become winners, the 76ers had intentionally been one of the worst teams in professional sports history. And after three years, that strategy had worked. The 76ers have perhaps the brightest future of any team in the NBA."

SAM HINKIE

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/sport...&smtyp=cur

#TrustTheProcess

(11-16-2017 01:00 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's not just DePaul that is a comp.

St. John's (NYC)
Seton Hall (Newark)
Cincinnati
Marquette (Milwaukee)
SLU
Temple (Philly)

etc, etc.

The big city urban schools are taking a beating in this environment.
Lots of reasons:

- The vast disparity in TV revenue and exposure for P5 type conferences gives them an in for talent.
- Players are more willing to go to the state flagship or other programs outside their region more than ever.
- As the world condenses due to technology and travel gets cheaper and easier, it's more common to make campuses far from home.

It's harder and harder to protect your recruiting turf than it ever was. Memphis kids simply don't HAVE to go to Memphis.

Memphis can still be a great job, but it dependent on a coach being able to recruit, even if it's simply car recruiting.
You can still win with a 901 heavy lineup, but you have to keep more than you lose.

DePaul can't hold on to Chicago talent.
St. John's can't hold on to NYC talent.

These are the comps that concern me. If we can't compete for kids in our own backyard, we're going to have issues.

Every school that puts out a good product has been able to stay the course and none of the areas you mentioned are only competing with one pro team and no college teams like Memphis is.

St. John's has 10 competitors if you count the soccer teams.

Temple is a bad example because they suck and Philadelphia has 4 pro teams, Penn State and Villanova as competitors.

Cincinnati has a pro baseball team, pro football team and Ohio State.

Marquette has a pro baseball team and made the NCAA tournament last year for the first time in 4 years, but still draw over 13,000 per game.

Memphis is very simple to figure out. If the team is good the fans will come. If the team is bad they won't. Considering that 2 years after the 2014 disappointment, we still sold over 12,000 tickets Pastner's last season, I would say that the fans while being fickle, are mostly loyal.

(11-16-2017 01:15 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 01:00 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's not just DePaul that is a comp.

St. John's (NYC)
Seton Hall (Newark)
Cincinnati
Marquette (Milwaukee)
SLU
Temple (Philly)

etc, etc.

The big city urban schools are taking a beating in this environment.
Lots of reasons:

- The vast disparity in TV revenue and exposure for P5 type conferences gives them an in for talent.
- Players are more willing to go to the state flagship or other programs outside their region more than ever.
- As the world condenses due to technology and travel gets cheaper and easier, it's more common to make campuses far from home.

It's harder and harder to protect your recruiting turf than it ever was. Memphis kids simply don't HAVE to go to Memphis.

Memphis can still be a great job, but it dependent on a coach being able to recruit, even if it's simply car recruiting.
You can still win with a 901 heavy lineup, but you have to keep more than you lose.

DePaul can't hold on to Chicago talent.
St. John's can't hold on to NYC talent.

These are the comps that concern me. If we can't compete for kids in our own backyard, we're going to have issues.

Every school that puts out a good product has been able to stay the course and none of the areas you mentioned are only competing with one pro team and no college teams like Memphis is.

St. John's has 10 competitors if you count the soccer teams.

Temple is a bad example because they suck and Philadelphia has 4 pro teams, Penn State and Villanova as competitors.

Cincinnati has a pro baseball team, pro football team and Ohio State.

Marquette has a pro baseball team and made the NCAA tournament last year for the first time in 4 years, but still draw over 13,000 per game.

Memphis is very simple to figure out. If the team is good the fans will come. If the team is bad they won't. Considering that 2 years after the 2014 disappointment, we still sold over 12,000 tickets Pastner's last season, I would say that the fans while being fickle, are mostly loyal.

You're talking attendance, I'm talking recruiting.

Temple is a tough comp, they have 'Nova, LaSalle, Penn, and Drexel to fight with for Philly players.

St. Johns / Depaul are better comps.

St. Johns has no other top level teams at the college level in the city to fight with (the Hall is in Newark, other programs are mid major or less).

DePaul doesn't have another urban school to fight with (UIUC is two hours south and UIC is a mid major).

Cincy does have Xavier to fight with locally.

All have the state flagship (UTk, UIUC, OSU) even though St. John's state 'flagship' is private (Cuse) unless you want to have a conversation about Binghampton.

>>>

Point being, it's harder to recruit, I'm not talking attendance personally.

Parrish said today that the AD should 'force hire' some assistant coaches that can recruit.

Many agree with that idea. Rumor has it Tubby will not allow this.

(11-16-2017 06:39 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Many agree with that idea. Rumor has it Tubby will not allow this.

I'd bet his contract covers this and that its 100% Tubby's decision.

(11-16-2017 12:19 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 11:29 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  What exactly is "the process" Tubby says should be trusted? I'm sure it isn't the 'lowering of expectations' he suggested, or his lack of public relations, or not calling recruits or their families. All of that is doing nothing and a "process," at least to me, implies some sort of action. Does anyone know what this action is that Tubby wants us to trust?

The second question calls for more of an educated guess. How much more time do we have, using The Process'" before recruits and others forget what Memphis basketball once was and starts to be considered like a DePaul? Good once but really no longer relevant.

DePaul 2017 Attendance
2017: 4,922
2016: 5,513
2015: 6,238
2014: 6,363

We were at 9,622 last year and drew 7,224 for our first game this year. I don't think 2017 DePaul is doable this year, maybe next year. 2015 DePaul is definitely within reach this year.

Now THAT is sobering.

Congrats Brad Martin. YOU GOT YOUR GUY!

(11-16-2017 01:00 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's not just DePaul that is a comp.

St. John's (NYC)
Seton Hall (Newark)
Cincinnati
Marquette (Milwaukee)
SLU
Temple (Philly)

etc, etc.

The big city urban schools are taking a beating in this environment.
Lots of reasons:

- The vast disparity in TV revenue and exposure for P5 type conferences gives them an in for talent.
- Players are more willing to go to the state flagship or other programs outside their region more than ever.
- As the world condenses due to technology and travel gets cheaper and easier, it's more common to make campuses far from home.

It's harder and harder to protect your recruiting turf than it ever was. Memphis kids simply don't HAVE to go to Memphis.

Memphis can still be a great job, but it dependent on a coach being able to recruit, even if it's simply car recruiting.
You can still win with a 901 heavy lineup, but you have to keep more than you lose.

DePaul can't hold on to Chicago talent.
St. John's can't hold on to NYC talent.

These are the comps that concern me. If we can't compete for kids in our own backyard, we're going to have issues.

going to have issues?

Brother, they're here

(11-16-2017 01:00 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  It's not just DePaul that is a comp.

St. John's (NYC)
Seton Hall (Newark)
Cincinnati
Marquette (Milwaukee)
SLU
Temple (Philly)

etc, etc.

The big city urban schools are taking a beating in this environment.
Lots of reasons:

- The vast disparity in TV revenue and exposure for P5 type conferences gives them an in for talent.
- Players are more willing to go to the state flagship or other programs outside their region more than ever.
- As the world condenses due to technology and travel gets cheaper and easier, it's more common to make campuses far from home.

It's harder and harder to protect your recruiting turf than it ever was. Memphis kids simply don't HAVE to go to Memphis.

Memphis can still be a great job, but it dependent on a coach being able to recruit, even if it's simply car recruiting.
You can still win with a 901 heavy lineup, but you have to keep more than you lose.

DePaul can't hold on to Chicago talent.
St. John's can't hold on to NYC talent.

These are the comps that concern me. If we can't compete for kids in our own backyard, we're going to have issues.

There's also the reality that you have to pay for 4-5 star players these days, and most in the church league (as is also the case with Memphis) are allegedly not playing that game any more.

The local kids are no exception, and the local recruiting scene seems to be especially political and petty.