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It's funny how people here....
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #21
RE: It's funny how people here....
I'll say this:

- We're getting beat by Idaho but come back in the end thank Gawd to win -- a scare, and how we can be in both directions.
- We dominated Akron *at home* on-paper in yardage and so much -- yet, we lose the game.
- We're thumping CMU *AT HOME*, but self-destruct in the end to lose the game
- We take the lead over @NIU -- and in the 4th quarter, we get shut down and we're run all over. Lose the game.

All 3 of those losses there -- would that happen under [insert-previous-winning-coach-here]? No, that would not be assumed.

Do I think under our previous coach this year, that we'd have as many injuries so banged up (it took Minn scandal for him to leave us)? Depends on if he took our trainer(s) -- that can make a difference, but we can't assume we'd be unscathed of course not.

Do I think our previous coach would make us 10-2? Hell no. But 6-6? No. More like 7-5, Maybe 8-4.

The 'ol saying it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game. I can see us having a game like that @NIU game with our prev coaching staff still here, yeah. But at the same time, both Akron + CMU at home going down like that too? Almost losing to Idaho at home as well? No.

We still have Toledo + Bowl Game. Lester can still make a statement that WMU's not going away as a contender and we're in a reload/adjustment mode (that could be better). We do have a right to be ticked. I would expect under our previous coach to have frustrating moments with this new change-over of O + FG kicker, and an "Oh, we could have been 8-4 or 9-3." But this is a step lower. Not cool. But not end of the world. We still got 2 more games against bowl-bound teams to find out.
11-16-2017 03:48 PM
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backinkazoo Offline
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Post: #22
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 09:13 AM)Broncodan Wrote:  Say that they miss Peejay and that this team could be better with him coaching. Do some of you forget that the reason why some of our positions have inexperience is because Peejay NEVER played backups! He had freaking Z.T in when we were wrecking Buffalo 38-0 in the 4th! All it would have taken was a rolled ankle and our cotton bowl / season would have been over.

Just my two cents


Flacco would still be here
11-16-2017 04:05 PM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #23
RE: It's funny how people here....
Fleck (and staff) grew into the job after their first year.

He adjusted and adapted while staying true to himself and his vision for the program.

Lester et al deserve the same opportunity.

After next season we can re-evaluate.

While this season has been disappointing, there are some mitigating circumstances.

Fleck for example never had to open on the road against two teams currently ranked in the Top 20.

The lack of depth and production at some crucial positions, injuries, Butch Hampton leaving, the Waldo flood-Akron game mess...
11-16-2017 04:18 PM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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Post: #24
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 12:07 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  Wow.

Guy has a -7 rep. That’s too high, IMO.
11-16-2017 04:55 PM
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Broncodan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: It's funny how people here....
Then we barely squeak out a win vs an id-a-how team thats 3-6......
11-16-2017 05:00 PM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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Post: #26
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 04:18 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Fleck (and staff) grew into the job after their first year.

He adjusted and adapted while staying true to himself and his vision for the program.

Lester et al deserve the same opportunity.

After next season we can re-evaluate.

While this season has been disappointing, there are some mitigating circumstances.

Fleck for example never had to open on the road against two teams currently ranked in the Top 20.

The lack of depth and production at some crucial positions, injuries, Butch Hampton leaving, the Waldo flood-Akron game mess...

Lester is in a wierd one year deal where the veteran players psychics are stuck in Flecks web of thought, and while trying like hell to play hard they are stuck in a neverland between the two coaches and nothing but time can fix that. Next year is a better measurement. Lester can ramp up his own style without conflict or doubt.
11-16-2017 05:01 PM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #27
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 05:01 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 04:18 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Fleck (and staff) grew into the job after their first year.

He adjusted and adapted while staying true to himself and his vision for the program.

Lester et al deserve the same opportunity.

After next season we can re-evaluate.

While this season has been disappointing, there are some mitigating circumstances.

Fleck for example never had to open on the road against two teams currently ranked in the Top 20.

The lack of depth and production at some crucial positions, injuries, Butch Hampton leaving, the Waldo flood-Akron game mess...

Lester is in a wierd one year deal where the veteran players psychics are stuck in Flecks web of thought, and while trying like hell to play hard they are stuck in a neverland between the two coaches and nothing but time can fix that. Next year is a better measurement. Lester can ramp up his own style without conflict or doubt.
I don't disagree with either of you for the most part. I do think these players were very committed to fleck, and believed truly in what he professed. What I don't understand is why Lester didn't embrace that, and embraced what Fleck was doing and saying. Flex Maxim's were actually quite good and accurate, and he had a way of teaching them two players, coaches, and anyone else who would listen, in a way that they understood and followed those principles. People laughed at the row the boat thing, but there was some meaning behind it, and everyone learned that meaning, and actually everyone on the team became more united and committed to the team as a whole.

When Lester got here I think the players just figured now they have a regular old fashioned coach. Maybe one that they liked, but not one who they embraced the way they did the old coach. PJ took them to Great Heights, and they appreciated that. Lester needed to continue everything that was being done. I know many of you say that He needs to have had the opportunity to be his own coach, and do things his own way, but in actuality he should have continued to follow exactly what PJ was doing.

Lester did inherit a tough schedule. No doubt about it. When people around here or suggesting that we should be favored against Michigan State, I called that as hogwash at the time. More than that, we had to do it basically on 6 days instead of 7, because we were flying home from California that Sunday. A very difficult task to do. I certainly give Lester a pass on those first two games, and did not expect that he would win those. But we struggled in far too many games that we should have one more easily, and lost games we certainly should not have lost. I question the play calling and the game strategy from our coaching staff from the beginning. Those are solely on Lester. Our defense has been porous far too frequently. This should have been a defense that wins a few games for us. Instead, it was inconsistent at best.

It is fair to give Lester further assessment after next year, but I don't think we need to forget what happened this year. Everyone justifiably expected much more, even given the barriers that existed.
11-16-2017 05:24 PM
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texasbronco1 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 04:55 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 12:07 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  Wow.

Guy has a -7 rep. That’s too high, IMO.

I know, but I have this thing where I try to stay positive and as a policy do not give out negative rep points unless the offense is so outrageous, I can't remain silent. So far that has only happened once, and it only happened because the person openly campaigned to have me banned from the board because I said something he didn't like.
11-16-2017 05:31 PM
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Hoekjeness Offline
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Post: #29
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 04:18 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Fleck (and staff) grew into the job after their first year.

He adjusted and adapted while staying true to himself and his vision for the program.

I disagree with this. You apparently didn’t listen to his schtick early on.

One thing Fleck very consistent (and measured) about was that year one wasn’t about wins and losses. It was about setting a strong foundation and focusing on the new RTB culture.

Lester didn’t have/need that. And he said as much himself. So, a little different IMO.
11-16-2017 05:37 PM
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PezKingGL1 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 05:00 PM)Broncodan Wrote:  Then we barely squeak out a win vs an id-a-how team thats 3-6......


Remember when the slappies were here telling us how good Idaho was?
11-16-2017 06:34 PM
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Chipdip2 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 05:31 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 04:55 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 12:07 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  Wow.

Guy has a -7 rep. That’s too high, IMO.

I know, but I have this thing where I try to stay positive and as a policy do not give out negative rep points unless the offense is so outrageous, I can't remain silent. So far that has only happened once, and it only happened because the person openly campaigned to have me banned from the board because I said something he didn't like.

What makes you think it’s a guy?
11-16-2017 06:56 PM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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Post: #32
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 06:56 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 05:31 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 04:55 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 12:07 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  Wow.

Guy has a -7 rep. That’s too high, IMO.

I know, but I have this thing where I try to stay positive and as a policy do not give out negative rep points unless the offense is so outrageous, I can't remain silent. So far that has only happened once, and it only happened because the person openly campaigned to have me banned from the board because I said something he didn't like.

What makes you think it’s a guy?

Right, and as a well conditioned snowflake, I should know better. My mistake. “Person “ works, or “the writer”.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2017 09:22 PM by Dirty Ernie.)
11-16-2017 09:20 PM
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RunningGame Offline
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Post: #33
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 05:37 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 04:18 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Fleck (and staff) grew into the job after their first year.

He adjusted and adapted while staying true to himself and his vision for the program.

I disagree with this. You apparently didn’t listen to his schtick early on.

One thing Fleck very consistent (and measured) about was that year one wasn’t about wins and losses. It was about setting a strong foundation and focusing on the new RTB culture.

Lester didn’t have/need that. And he said as much himself. So, a little different IMO.

He settled on that after the Nicholls loss. Before that it was "win" now. He got pretty frustrated and on Mlive lots were mad he seemed to be throwing players under the bus. You better believe he was trying to win every game possible. Like a good coach, he corrected and adapted. We only went 1-11 that year because we were gutted with injuries, Wilson foremost among them.
11-16-2017 11:48 PM
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flawless300 Offline
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Post: #34
It's funny how people here....
All this back-and-forth over PJ vs Lester. There’s one thing missing: DOES ANYONE REMEMBER 1-11???

Cheese and rice, give Tim a chance.


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11-17-2017 12:25 AM
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Wmufan715 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 06:56 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 05:31 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 04:55 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 12:07 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  Wow.

Guy has a -7 rep. That’s too high, IMO.

I know, but I have this thing where I try to stay positive and as a policy do not give out negative rep points unless the offense is so outrageous, I can't remain silent. So far that has only happened once, and it only happened because the person openly campaigned to have me banned from the board because I said something he didn't like.

What makes you think it’s a guy?

Again ChipDip comes back because he doesn’t have any friends that will talk with him on the other board he created.

Please inform me why a wife from a previous staff would care about a message board for a team they aren’t on when they chose to leave.

And you better be careful CD, would hate to see you get sued for incorrect personal statements.
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2017 07:44 AM by Wmufan715.)
11-17-2017 12:31 AM
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brovol Offline
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Post: #36
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-17-2017 12:25 AM)flawless300 Wrote:  All this back-and-forth over PJ vs Lester. There’s one thing missing: DOES ANYONE REMEMBER 1-11???

Cheese and rice, give Tim a chance.


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Didn't Tim have a chance this year?
11-17-2017 06:10 AM
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Hoekjeness Offline
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Post: #37
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-17-2017 12:25 AM)flawless300 Wrote:  All this back-and-forth over PJ vs Lester. There’s one thing missing: DOES ANYONE REMEMBER 1-11???

Cheese and rice, give Tim a chance.

WHAT DOES 1-11 HAVE TO DO WITH THIS SEASON!?

Tim didn't inherit a 4-8 team. He inherited a 13-win team.
11-17-2017 07:47 AM
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Bronc33 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-16-2017 06:34 PM)PezKingGL1 Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 05:00 PM)Broncodan Wrote:  Then we barely squeak out a win vs an id-a-how team thats 3-6......


Remember when the slappies were here telling us how good Idaho was?

I also remember when the slappies thought MSU would only win 3 or 4 games. We're all wrong..... a lot
11-17-2017 08:07 AM
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Dirty Ernie Offline
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Post: #39
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-17-2017 07:47 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 12:25 AM)flawless300 Wrote:  All this back-and-forth over PJ vs Lester. There’s one thing missing: DOES ANYONE REMEMBER 1-11???

Cheese and rice, give Tim a chance.

WHAT DOES 1-11 HAVE TO DO WITH THIS SEASON!?

Tim didn't inherit a 4-8 team. He inherited a 13-win team.

And? What’s the last time a 13 win team repeated, especially after having been unceremoniously dumped by their ungrateful coach? They are filled with angst and grief. Their little psyches burned to a crisp from stress. Etc. depression anxiety anger. And then a new coach has to come in and try to put their culture back into the real world. Their leader Zack moving on. Leader Spillane unsuccessfully tries to ditch them. Backups and returning vets filled with the walking wounded, patched up knees, ankles, wrists. World class receiver gone to the NFL, so injured he can’t even make it through fall camp.

13 wins was great, even PJ said just enjoy it while it lasts, then checks out. He knew what was going to happen.

Get over it.
11-17-2017 08:23 AM
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Hoekjeness Offline
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Post: #40
RE: It's funny how people here....
(11-17-2017 08:23 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 07:47 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 12:25 AM)flawless300 Wrote:  All this back-and-forth over PJ vs Lester. There’s one thing missing: DOES ANYONE REMEMBER 1-11???

Cheese and rice, give Tim a chance.

WHAT DOES 1-11 HAVE TO DO WITH THIS SEASON!?

Tim didn't inherit a 4-8 team. He inherited a 13-win team.

And? What’s the last time a 13 win team repeated, especially after having been unceremoniously dumped by their ungrateful coach? They are filled with angst and grief. Their little psyches burned to a crisp from stress. Etc. depression anxiety anger. And then a new coach has to come in and try to put their culture back into the real world. Their leader Zack moving on. Leader Spillane unsuccessfully tries to ditch them. Backups and returning vets filled with the walking wounded, patched up knees, ankles, wrists. World class receiver gone to the NFL, so injured he can’t even make it through fall camp.

13 wins was great, even PJ said just enjoy it while it lasts, then checks out. He knew what was going to happen.

Get over it.

Hey straw man, NOBODY has ever been quoted here saying we expected another 13-win season.

The point is that Lester was handed a gift. HE SAID THAT HIMSELF (not us) on multiple occasions upon his arrival.

6 wins.

You're good with that? Really?

(09-09-2017 07:21 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  no reason we can't still go for 8 wins.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2017 08:33 AM by Hoekjeness.)
11-17-2017 08:26 AM
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