A 5th accuser has come forward.

If you watched her news conference yesterday, she's pretty credible, right? She and her husband voted for trump and she has a high school yearbook that Roy Moore signed to her while he claims he does not know her nor the restaurant where she worked at...the restaurant that he even names in his yearbook comments.


So, is this guy fit to hold a national public office, should he withdraw for that reason?

I see two issues here.

Roy Moore is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Roy Moore only has to convince the voters of Alabama that he is fit to be Senator.

It's irrelevant what I think.

Tom, for the sake of argument assume that moore is innocent. You know "innocent until proven guilty and all that"...

So if he is innocent is it a good thing that unproven allegations can destroy a persons career?

So is Weinstein then.

Big difference between the legal definition and the "court of public opinion".

(11-14-2017 10:00 AM)miko33 Wrote:  So is Weinstein then.

Weinstein went into sex rehab treatment. While he has denied the *rape* allegations and retaliation allegations he has not denied anything else.

Seems a bit different that Moore's response, no?

Why?

(11-14-2017 10:07 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 10:00 AM)miko33 Wrote:  So is Weinstein then.

Weinstein went into sex rehab treatment. While he has denied the *rape* allegations and retaliation allegations he has not denied anything else.

Seems a bit different that Moore's response, no?

Both are fighting the accusations differently; however, the accusations plus the case that these were the "worst kept secrets" are identical. My point of "court of public opinion" is valid in politics. Whether Moore is guilty or innocent, these allegations will hurt him politically.

Hell no.

(11-14-2017 10:07 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 10:00 AM)miko33 Wrote:  So is Weinstein then.

Weinstein went into sex rehab treatment. While he has denied the *rape* allegations and retaliation allegations he has not denied anything else.

Seems a bit different that Moore's response, no?

Well Weinstein has the disadvantage of having his power base to be a group that is willing to believe accusations of sexual misconduct. Roy Moore doesn't appear to think these accusations really matter to his base.

They both appear to be guilty.

(11-14-2017 09:55 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  I see two issues here.

Roy Moore is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Roy Moore only has to convince the voters of Alabama that he is fit to be Senator.

It's irrelevant what I think.

Well...gee...you're basically making the case that no one should ever click the 'Post Reply' button on this site...lol

But seriously, this has nothing to do with courts or law. This woman is not seeking a monetary or criminal case. It goes to what behavior should we tolerate from our elected officials that are supposed to be representations of us. I realize you're not an Alabama resident, but still.

Anyway, I find myself agreeing with Mitt Romney quite a bit of late. Thanks trump!

Quote:Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections. I believe Leigh Corfman. Her account is too serious to ignore. Moore is unfit for office and should step aside. ~ @mittromney, 10/10/17

And that quote was BEFORE this latest woman came forward!

I say let Alabama vote and see where they stand and let the rest of the nation judge them based on their decision.

Only Roy Moore knows whether he should withdraw or not.

We know all the Republican establishment didn't want him there. I didn't want him there. But if he didn't do the 14 year old, he shouldn't be driven out.

Has anything been proven?

(11-14-2017 10:50 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Has anything been proven?

Nothing has to be proven. This isn't a court of law and he isn't on trial. This is only an election.

(11-14-2017 10:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  Only Roy Moore knows whether he should withdraw or not.

We know all the Republican establishment didn't want him there. I didn't want him there. But if he didn't do the 14 year old, he shouldn't be driven out.

Did you listen to what this lady described that he did to her? Do you honestly need some type of physical proof to believe he did? The lady has the signed proof of knowing him and is not seeking any financial, criminal or political gain. What possible game could she be playing other than the truth? Not to mention she's 1 of 5!

(11-14-2017 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 10:50 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Has anything been proven?

Nothing has to be proven. This isn't a court of law and he isn't on trial. This is only an election.

Well, then if your logic holds then no, he should not withdraw.

(11-14-2017 10:53 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 10:50 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Has anything been proven?

Nothing has to be proven. This isn't a court of law and he isn't on trial. This is only an election.

Well, then if your logic holds then no, he should not withdraw.

I agree and I voted no. He is innocent until proven guilty.

Now let's see what Alabama thinks

(11-14-2017 10:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 10:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  Only Roy Moore knows whether he should withdraw or not.

We know all the Republican establishment didn't want him there. I didn't want him there. But if he didn't do the 14 year old, he shouldn't be driven out.

Did you listen to what this lady described that he did to her? Do you honestly need some type of physical proof to believe he did? The lady has the signed proof of knowing him and is not seeking any financial, criminal or political gain. What possible game could she be playing other than the truth? Not to mention she's 1 of 5!

They largely don't care. Here's how it works

1) They discredit any critical news sources that report anything that doesn't fit their goals.
2) Then they only look at sites that only report on things that make their side look better. By the way, most MSMers take reporting seriously - its very rare when the right brings something up and I'm not already aware of it - from the MSM press. Libs don't read the news to have their views confirmed, but to be 'informed'.
3) Then when it blows up in their face, because they ignored all the warning signs, they scream and holler. Not about the right wing transgressor, but against the people that have the temerity to bring it up.

This is a wake up call for the right wing. Roy Moore might be the worst example of this, but he's far from the only disaster waiting to happen.

(11-14-2017 10:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  But seriously, this has nothing to do with courts or law.

Then be prepared for allegations galore, unproven of course, against every Democrat from Portland OR to Portland ME that will be impactful to their election. These are the new rules, hope you like them.

"Candidate Jones, I have a yearbook from 1994 where you drew a mustache on a kid. 20 years later that man committed suicide. The connection is clear, you bullied him. Please now prove that drawing that mustache didn't cause the kid to kill himself."

This is why innocent until proven guilty in court, and the law, are so damn important.

(11-14-2017 10:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It goes to what behavior should we tolerate from our elected officials that are supposed to be representations of us.

Which is why the voters of Alabama should be able to make the decision at the polls and not the NeverTrumpers in DC or crazy Berkeley liberals.

(11-14-2017 10:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I realize you're not an Alabama resident, but still.

But still what? I am a dude living in MN. My opinion counts for nothing in that election and I will not be part of any movement that looks to disenfranchise voters in other states, Democrat or Republican or Green or Socialist.

Roy Moore only needs to convince the good voters of the Great State of Alabama, not anyone else.

There is some doubt about the authenticity of that signature and date.