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I guess it depends on what you want from an athletic program.

We don't have a realistic shot at a national championship in football (or hoops for that matter), but we still play at the level that gets our school the most attention. I guarantee far more people watched the Cotton Bowl than the FCS NCG.

I also disagree with this assumption that we could automatically compete for championships at FCS level, especially if the whole MAC or G5 dropped down with us. Everyone dropping down would create the same recruiting challenges we have now, and a shot at a national championship would likely be as rare as a NY6 run is now.

For an extreme example look at Boise State vs. NDSU. Boise has never truly threatened for a national championship, yet they are a far more well known, celebrated program than NDSU's dynasty, fair or not.

College football has always been a sport where a successful season is defined differently based on your program's stature. As mentioned before it's not a G5 thing to have a miniscule chance at a national championship. Many P5s are in the same boat. I hope that changes with a playoff expansion, but until then we have a conference championship race, P5 games, and CMU games to look forward to every year.

Not seeing what we accomplish by dropping down. I suspect it wouldn't even be a winning financial move.

I like the kind of discussion this has generated. We needed this so that we can make our expectations of WMU athletics, football especially, uniform across the alumni and donor bases.

The thought I had tonight was one I hadn't had last night - what about a promotion/relegation-type in FBS football? WMU would've most certainly been promoted after last season. The traditional idea of conference membership would have to be eschewed for it to happen.

Promotion/relegation is something American professional sports need badly, especially the NBA.

The playoff WILL expand. That's a given. One would have their head in the sand to think it's not (they probably thought there was never going to be a playoff at all; which in and of itself is more difficult than going from a mere 4-> 8 or 12).

Upon expanding, it won't only be 8. It will most likely, at least at some point, be 12 teams -- much like the # of teams in the NYE/BCS bowls. In an 8-team playoff, there likely will at least be a Conditional allowment for a Top G5 team, and in 12-teams there Surely would be 100%.

So the only argument for the G5 to be a league of it's own -- if you're not a team consistently vying for that Top G5 spot -- is that a 1-team-only opportunity isn't enough, even for a Playoff.

That may be so -- but how does it measure against other options?

1) Joining the FCS. Really, this isn't worth it much. Lower scholarships, lower $$ overall. You have one SUPER Conference that's like the SEC x 3 -- the Missouri Valley conference that could legitimately be FBS *today* if the Sun Belt can, but the FBS already has 2 midwestern conferences already (B1G + MAC). So I can see why They'd like to stay. But the G5 + FCS itself is already WAY too many teams.

2) The G5 + Missouri Valley to make their own sub-division with a 12-team playoff. 6 Conferences -- 6 Auto-Bids. 6 at-larges, no more than 2 at-larges from the same conference.

#2 would be ideal. But it's only ideal if it'd truly work out the Right Way. Others not making the Top 12 -- can still go bowling to the bottom ones that'll take the others in, like they do today. And when it comes to P5 conferences, they can't nix the G6 OOC games. At most have a clause that said G6 on their schedule must have had a winning record 3 out of the last 6 years and 1 out of the last 3, or something. Basically to be JUST LIKE today, when it comes to watching/following FBS football in regular season... just that in the playoffs, it's different.

Back in the mid '70s, when 1-A split into 1-A and 1-AA, NIU went 1-A, while the other Illinois schools--ISU, SIU, EIU and WIU opted for 1-AA. ISU regretted that move and wish they had gone 1-A. I think the Orange Bowl thing hit home. (BTW NIU-ISU are their biggest rivals-in games played. But like WMU-CMU in the past, we rarely play ISU, not unlike CMU-WMU when CMU was DII and WMU was D-1.)

(11-13-2017 12:49 AM)NIU70 Wrote:  Back in the mid '70s, when 1-A split into 1-A and 1-AA, NIU went 1-A, while the other Illinois schools--ISU, SIU, EIU and WIU opted for 1-AA. ISU regretted that move and wish they had gone 1-A. I think the Orange Bowl thing hit home. (BTW NIU-ISU are their biggest rivals-in games played. But like WMU-CMU in the past, we rarely play ISU, not unlike CMU-WMU when CMU was DII and WMU was D-1.)

If ISU regretted it they had 40 years to jump. I have a relative that worked in a D1 program front office. People don't realize the cost involved. The MVC is a bus league. Even when they jump out of conference its normally vs MAC/B10/B12 schools within a 3-5 hour ride window. MAC,MW,Sun Belt etc are on planes for many non conference games. MW and Conference USA fly to almost every game no matter the opponent. MSU flys 40 min to Northwestern. The MAC schools can bus to most league games but even WMU will fly to Buffalo for a conference game. Grand Valley has been looking at FCS/FBS just for operating budget estimates the last few years. The AD was interviewed two years ago and estimated $15m just to become a low budget FBS school, they didn't include stadium upgrades to NCAA minimums. GVSU can't jump to FCS economically because no Michigan FCS school exists. Dayton(non scholarship), Valpo, Youngstown are among the closest but reality is Ill, Ind, Ky, Mo and the Dakotas is where they would have to travel.

Money will open the playoffs to more teams. ESPN controls College Football and owns rights to dozens of bowls. ESPN revenues are falling like rocks off the cliffs. All these ESPN bowl games are going up to highest bidder in short matter as ESPN scrambles for money. When FOX, NBC, and CBS come up with the money to make a multi school playoff work involving more than four teams all bets are off. The first network that figures out how to tie in the live stream revenue to make it work wins the prize.

Pretty much what pilot said.

Even if a MAC team never makes the playoff, the goal of an NY6 Access bowl is more lucrative (from an exposure standpoint) and exciting than playing in an FCS championship game.

And there also exists an illusion that we'd consistently challenge for such a championship because we'll bring an FBS "name" with us. Maybe in the first 1-2 years, but eventually our recruiting would sink in line with that level.

(11-09-2017 03:50 PM)Flashboski Wrote:  I’d take a FCS National Title over some lame bowl win any day of the week.

Not me. Why go backwards?

No.

(11-13-2017 07:11 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 03:50 PM)Flashboski Wrote:  I’d take a FCS National Title over some lame bowl win any day of the week.

Not me. Why go backwards?

Exactly... As was mentioned earlier in this thread... the visibility this University received during the cotton bowl was far an above any visibility you get from an FCS championship... Wasn't even a CFP appearance and we didn't even win... Id take the opportunity to catch that G5 bowl over trying for a FCS championship year in and year out... honestly that was an EPIC year last year...

1.5 million viewers setting eyes on WMU in just a couple hours time.

You backup to FCS your non conference becomes Saginaw Valley, Northwood. You go to a P5 and lose by five TDs. Look at some of these FCS schedules. Can you imagine NC Central coming into Waldo and winning? Next game wouldn't draw 3500. This talk is foolish.