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Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
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marcuscan Offline
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Post: #221
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 09:25 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 08:54 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  General question in regards to this year's recruiting class which has probably been posed once or twice before:

How many incoming freshmen do we expect to have an immediate impact on the field? To me it looks like at least four..

Malik Vann and Josh Whyle should see the field quite a bit depending on formation.
Arquon Bush should challenge for immediate playing time.

Possibly see Javon Hicks in the receiver rotation?

Given the rumors and hearsay about some of our backup QBs, setting aside the fact that they can't seem to get onto the field ahead of Hayden, i imagine Ben Bryant will get a very long look. i believe he's enrolling early, no?

I think he is.

I think most of the class is expected to sign early. we'll see!




mc
 
12-05-2017 09:36 AM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #222
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 09:36 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 09:25 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 08:54 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  General question in regards to this year's recruiting class which has probably been posed once or twice before:

How many incoming freshmen do we expect to have an immediate impact on the field? To me it looks like at least four..

Malik Vann and Josh Whyle should see the field quite a bit depending on formation.
Arquon Bush should challenge for immediate playing time.

Possibly see Javon Hicks in the receiver rotation?

Given the rumors and hearsay about some of our backup QBs, setting aside the fact that they can't seem to get onto the field ahead of Hayden, i imagine Ben Bryant will get a very long look. i believe he's enrolling early, no?

I think he is.

I think most of the class is expected to sign early. we'll see!




mc

About how many would that be? Traditionally 5-7 early enrollees is normal in any given class of ~25 recruits but if we're talking somewhere around a dozen or more, that'd be awesome.
 
12-05-2017 12:28 PM
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bearcatfan1211 Offline
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Post: #223
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
Tyler Bentley (Lakota West) has opened his recruitment back up after decommitting from Kentucky. He has been on campus several times.

https://247sports.com/Player/Tyler-Bentley-92600
 
12-05-2017 12:48 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #224
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 12:48 PM)bearcatfan1211 Wrote:  Tyler Bentley (Lakota West) has opened his recruitment back up after decommitting from Kentucky. He has been on campus several times.

https://247sports.com/Player/Tyler-Bentley-92600

We'll see, but we rarely end up with guys from West. He just visited Pitt and is set to visit Louisville this week.
 
12-05-2017 12:52 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #225
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 12:52 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 12:48 PM)bearcatfan1211 Wrote:  Tyler Bentley (Lakota West) has opened his recruitment back up after decommitting from Kentucky. He has been on campus several times.

https://247sports.com/Player/Tyler-Bentley-92600

We'll see, but we rarely end up with guys from West. He just visited Pitt and is set to visit Louisville this week.

Yeah, he's not coming here.
 
12-05-2017 01:07 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #226
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 09:25 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 08:54 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  General question in regards to this year's recruiting class which has probably been posed once or twice before:

How many incoming freshmen do we expect to have an immediate impact on the field? To me it looks like at least four..

Malik Vann and Josh Whyle should see the field quite a bit depending on formation.
Arquon Bush should challenge for immediate playing time.

Possibly see Javon Hicks in the receiver rotation?

Given the rumors and hearsay about some of our backup QBs, setting aside the fact that they can't seem to get onto the field ahead of Hayden, i imagine Ben Bryant will get a very long look. i believe he's enrolling early, no?

Supposedly the staff is very excited about his future, but I have a hard time seeing him starting as a true frosh over Hayden and/or a transfer. Obviously the learning is one thing. And it's probably not fair or wise to judge on a photograph, but I wonder if he has the body strength and bulk to stand up to the beating a QB takes. Fick and Denbrock just visitied with him last week:

[Image: DQPoA_9WsAEaAT8.jpg]

Obviously he can and will get bigger and stronger with time, but I don't know about the beginning of next season. Am I reading too much into this even with all the caveats?
 
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 01:39 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
12-05-2017 01:38 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #227
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 12:28 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 09:36 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 09:25 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 08:54 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  General question in regards to this year's recruiting class which has probably been posed once or twice before:

How many incoming freshmen do we expect to have an immediate impact on the field? To me it looks like at least four..

Malik Vann and Josh Whyle should see the field quite a bit depending on formation.
Arquon Bush should challenge for immediate playing time.

Possibly see Javon Hicks in the receiver rotation?

Given the rumors and hearsay about some of our backup QBs, setting aside the fact that they can't seem to get onto the field ahead of Hayden, i imagine Ben Bryant will get a very long look. i believe he's enrolling early, no?

I think he is.

I think most of the class is expected to sign early. we'll see!




mc

About how many would that be? Traditionally 5-7 early enrollees is normal in any given class of ~25 recruits but if we're talking somewhere around a dozen or more, that'd be awesome.

There's a distinction now between early signee (which is new) and early enrollee. I'm guessing the staff will put on a hard press to get just about everybody who is currently committed to become early signees. Something along the lines of "if you are still looking at other options and not ready to fulfill your commitment, then we are going to have to do the same..." And with some of the guys they are still in on and the potential for more via coaching change de-commits elsewhere and transfers (especially grad transfers), they won't be bluffing. I don't know all the new rules but it sounds like 25 total newcomers has a lot less wiggle room than it used to. We're in a position where we can and will be very selective in getting from our current 18ish to 25.

But no way most of the class becomes early enrollees which involves starting classes this Jan iirc. I think about 5-6 have announced that intention, but I doubt there's many more than that as it takes some planning (not the least of which is presumably graduating early from HS).
 
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 01:51 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
12-05-2017 01:48 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #228
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 01:38 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 09:25 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 08:54 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  General question in regards to this year's recruiting class which has probably been posed once or twice before:

How many incoming freshmen do we expect to have an immediate impact on the field? To me it looks like at least four..

Malik Vann and Josh Whyle should see the field quite a bit depending on formation.
Arquon Bush should challenge for immediate playing time.

Possibly see Javon Hicks in the receiver rotation?

Given the rumors and hearsay about some of our backup QBs, setting aside the fact that they can't seem to get onto the field ahead of Hayden, i imagine Ben Bryant will get a very long look. i believe he's enrolling early, no?

Supposedly the staff is very excited about his future, but I have a hard time seeing him starting as a true frosh over Hayden and/or a transfer. Obviously the learning is one thing. And it's probably not fair or wise to judge on a photograph, but I wonder if he has the body strength and bulk to stand up to the beating a QB takes. Fick and Denbrock just visitied with him last week:

[Image: DQPoA_9WsAEaAT8.jpg]

Obviously he can and will get bigger and stronger with time, but I don't know about the beginning of next season. Am I reading too much into this even with all the caveats?

For reference, Fickell is 6'4" and wearing shoes while Bryant isn't...I'd say hes a solid 6'3", but he definitely needs to bulk up a bit. Luckily he'll have 6 months to work on the body and brain parts of the game.
 
12-05-2017 01:49 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #229
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 01:48 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 12:28 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 09:36 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 09:25 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 08:54 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  General question in regards to this year's recruiting class which has probably been posed once or twice before:

How many incoming freshmen do we expect to have an immediate impact on the field? To me it looks like at least four..

Malik Vann and Josh Whyle should see the field quite a bit depending on formation.
Arquon Bush should challenge for immediate playing time.

Possibly see Javon Hicks in the receiver rotation?

Given the rumors and hearsay about some of our backup QBs, setting aside the fact that they can't seem to get onto the field ahead of Hayden, i imagine Ben Bryant will get a very long look. i believe he's enrolling early, no?

I think he is.

I think most of the class is expected to sign early. we'll see!




mc

About how many would that be? Traditionally 5-7 early enrollees is normal in any given class of ~25 recruits but if we're talking somewhere around a dozen or more, that'd be awesome.

There's a distinction now between early signee (which is new) and early enrollee. I'm guessing the staff will put on a hard press to get just about everybody who is currently committed to become early signees. Something along the lines of "if you are still looking at other options and not ready to fulfill your commitment, then we are going to have to do the same..." And with some of the guys they are still in on and the potential for more via coaching change de-commits elsewhere and transfers (especially grad transfers), they won't be bluffing.

But no way most of the class becomes early enrollees which involves starting classes this Jan iirc. I think about 5-6 have announced that intention, but I doubt there's many more than that as it takes some planning (not the least of which is presumably graduating early from HS).

I think with the advent of the College Credit Plus Program in Ohio, there will likely be more people able to EE, thought I don't know if that will directly translate to students actually doing it.
 
12-05-2017 01:51 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #230
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 01:49 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 01:38 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Supposedly the staff is very excited about his future, but I have a hard time seeing him starting as a true frosh over Hayden and/or a transfer. Obviously the learning is one thing. And it's probably not fair or wise to judge on a photograph, but I wonder if he has the body strength and bulk to stand up to the beating a QB takes. Fick and Denbrock just visitied with him last week:

Obviously he can and will get bigger and stronger with time, but I don't know about the beginning of next season. Am I reading too much into this even with all the caveats?

For reference, Fickell is 6'4" and wearing shoes while Bryant isn't...I'd say hes a solid 6'3", but he definitely needs to bulk up a bit. Luckily he'll have 6 months to work on the body and brain parts of the game.

His height is fine. And certainly there's time to bulk up some by next season. But I'm not sure I see him standing firm in the pocket while Ed Oliver is bearing down on him. I'm not criticizing him, I'd say that about most true frosh QBs. I just don't know that I see him as the exception at this point.
 
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 02:03 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
12-05-2017 02:00 PM
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RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
Using Hayden again to hopefully win 5 or 6 games is very meh when he won’t be here in what we all hope is a breakthrough year #3 with CLF.

Give everyone a legit shot to compete for the QB spot at least. After this past season, wipe the depth chart clean. Open competition.
 
12-05-2017 02:28 PM
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eroc Online
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RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 02:00 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 01:49 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 01:38 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Supposedly the staff is very excited about his future, but I have a hard time seeing him starting as a true frosh over Hayden and/or a transfer. Obviously the learning is one thing. And it's probably not fair or wise to judge on a photograph, but I wonder if he has the body strength and bulk to stand up to the beating a QB takes. Fick and Denbrock just visitied with him last week:

Obviously he can and will get bigger and stronger with time, but I don't know about the beginning of next season. Am I reading too much into this even with all the caveats?

For reference, Fickell is 6'4" and wearing shoes while Bryant isn't...I'd say hes a solid 6'3", but he definitely needs to bulk up a bit. Luckily he'll have 6 months to work on the body and brain parts of the game.

His height is fine. And certainly there's time to bulk up some by next season. But I'm not sure I see him standing firm in the pocket while Ed Oliver is bearing down on him. I'm not criticizing him, I'd say that about most true frosh QBs. I just don't know that I see him as the exception at this point.

With all due respect, Hayden is bigger then Bryant, but i don't know if he's that much bigger. After a few months of lifting and diet, Bryant will definitely bulk up. That said, my issue with Moore is less about his size or his ability to take punishment and more about his accuracy and decision making. if Bryant is able to beat Moore in those areas, he should get the job.
 
12-05-2017 02:29 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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Post: #233
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
I'm all for an open competition, I'm just not sure Bryant is currently built to last if he does win it.

BTW, both Hayden and Bryant are listed as 6-3 although at least one listing had Hayden at 6-2 and 190 coming out of HS. Bryant is listed at 185. Hayden is listed at 218 now with a very much transformed body it seems (based upon the before/after pick from the preseason I recall posted here).
 
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 02:40 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
12-05-2017 02:38 PM
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RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
Look at McKenzie Milton for UCF. He’s been playing since he walked onto campus in 2016. They list him at 5’11”, 185 lbs but both of those numbers are very optimistic. He’s tiny but he’s tough as hell.
 
12-05-2017 03:02 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #235
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
Like Rath said, I expect there to be an open competition for QB (and frankly just about every position).

Keep an eye on Desmond Ridder, whose redshirt will be lifted next season. Not only does he have a big arm, he has some wheels. He ran for nearly 1,000 yards and 19 TDs his senior year at Louisville St. X. We saw last season how many times designed runs were called for Moore, which may have been by necessity based on the OL/WR play. Ridder is much more fleet of foot than Moore.
 
12-05-2017 03:13 PM
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dubcat14 Offline
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RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
Interesting piece in The Athletic (which I shamelessly believe has become a terrific news source and believe if you’re on the fence about subscribing, definitely do so) on Malik Vann and the early signing period.. could easily ruffle feathers essentially saying it’s bad for the kids because they won’t get to see their full array of options.

https://theathletic.com/175864/2017/12/0...fe-harder/

Malik Vann's commitment to Cincinnati, Ohio State's interest and why the early signing period could make everyone's life harder

FAIRFIELD, Ohio — Malik Vann walked into a conference room at Fairfield High School on Tuesday morning wearing a black Cincinnati Dri-Fit shirt that was barely containing bulging muscles that weren't nearly as big or defined a year ago.

Vann, a four-star defensive end, didn't have true interest from Ohio State a year ago before his muscles blew up the same way he did during his senior season. And before Ohio State got involved, Vann heard Cincinnati coach Luke Fickell's pitch to be a “Hometown Hero,” saw all of his other options and pledged to become a Bearcat to help build something in his city.

As Ohio State typically does in cases like this one, where an in-state star develops into a monster as a senior, Urban Meyer has been in the Fairfield hallways in the last month and his interest in Vann has increased dramatically. While at Fairfield, Meyer even gave Fickell, a former Buckeyes assistant, a courtesy call to inform him that Ohio State might be on the verge of trying to flip the top Cincinnati commit. Fickell, who spent enough time at Ohio State flipping prospects from smaller schools, respectfully understood.

It was clear to everyone — Vann and his coaches — during Ohio State's visit to Fairfield that an offer could be coming.

Nothing about what's happening is atypical. Ohio State swings for big prospects out-of-state, then if it misses, it resorts to recruiting in-state players. But this year that process changes for everyone with the new early signing period Dec. 20. It changes the way prospects operate, it changes the way schools operate and it really makes life for everyone involved harder.

“You can see how in certain cases, the early signing period could create some stress for both sides,” Fairfield coach Jason Krause said. “That's why I am here to make sure my kids consider everything because the world of recruiting just got far more complex.”

As if it wasn't complex enough already.

The 6-foot-3, 271-pound Vann is going to sign on Dec. 20 with Cincinnati, enroll early and start his journey trying to bring Cincinnati football back to prominence. He has absolutely no stress in this situation because as much as he would love a late offer from Ohio State, he's already visited Columbus multiple times, earned offers from Alabama, Oklahoma and others, and has determined that Cincinnati is without question the best fit for him.

“I have no doubts,” Vann said.

But let's create an alternate universe where Vann wasn't enrolling early and had the desire to wait for an Ohio State offer — like so many in-state prospects do — and told Cincinnati he wasn't going to sign early on Dec. 20. Maybe Cincinnati would understand, or maybe Fickell would be forced to find a replacement for the prospect because the program couldn't be held hostage while Vann saw his recruitment out. Fickell has seen this movie too many times to be naive to the fact that Ohio State usually gets what it wants in Ohio.

Do you see how this could be an issue? In this alternate universe, Vann could upset Cincinnati by not opting to sign early, could wait for an offer from Ohio State that never comes, then ultimately be left without any options come the regular National Signing Day in February. When you really think about the early signing period, who is it really helping?

Is it helping Vann and prospects like him? Vann gains absolutely nothing by signing his name to a binding agreement Dec. 20. If he wanted to enroll early as he plans to do, he could have done that with the old rules. If he wanted to wait and use the final six weeks to see what offers came in, he could risk upsetting the current program to which he's committed and risk not getting the offer he wants. It's a very uncomfortable situation.

Is it helping Ohio State? The Buckeyes have a national recruiting net and go after the best of the best, regardless of where they're from. And when it becomes apparent that they may not land big-time commitments from out-of-state prospects, Meyer usually resorts back to very talented prospects like Vann to fill spots. Maybe that seems like Vann would be a backup plan, but what's really the result? Vann getting to go to one of the most successful and elite college football programs in the country? Not a bad deal.

So now Ohio State might be on the market for another defensive end in this class because four-star Tyreke Smith of Cleveland Heights is leaning toward Penn State and four-star Jayson Oweh is still considering Penn State, Michigan and others. The Buckeyes won't get the chance to try to flip Vann because he'll already be signed and Vann won't get to hear Ohio State's best sales pitch and make a decision — with more information — regarding what he wants to do with his life.

Whom is this helping? Do you really want to know? It's helping mid-major programs that usually are susceptible to losing commitments late in the process to bigger programs. There was a coach from Ball State at Fairfield on Tuesday and he loves the new rule because his program can sign — and effectively trap — prospects on Dec. 20, thus stopping that kid from flipping to Purdue or another school that kid would view as an upgrade. That kid will wind up at Ball State and maybe he'll be happy, but that decision will have been made before he truly had all of his options.

College football programs are like the food chain: Division II, mid-major, Power Five and major elite programs. At the end of the recruiting process, the programs in the higher position on the food chain munch off the smaller schools. That's the way it works and programs don't need protection from that. And the NCAA's new rule is only protecting one thing, and the biggest issue is that it's not the kid.

Maybe you think the early signing period is good for the kid because it locks up a spot and allows them to sign earlier. But it's really not. What's happening is that schools and kids are being forced to make decisions faster — and coincidentally in the month that's most common for coaching changes — and that leads to recruiting misses and mistakes on both sides. Meyer won't have the luxury of waiting to offer in-state prospects anymore because flipping prospects late will no longer be an option. That's dangerous.

Maybe you think the flipping in recruiting is obnoxious. You may think, “Why can't kids make a commitment and stick to it?” But what you need to understand is that flipping is good. That means a prospect had a really good option in the school to which he originally committed, but something better came along for that kid and he jumped at it. How is it bad when a kid wants to flip? He's a teenager, isn't making the millions these coaches are making and has the prerogative to make what decision is best for him.

“I never really thought of that until now,” Vann said. “Luke Fickell is the perfect leader and I'd follow him into any situation. I am really happy with my Cincinnati commitment, so the stresses of an early signing period don't really apply to me.”

That's really good news for Vann. He's one of the best defensive ends in the country and he's completely at peace with his decision. And Fickell has done a tremendous job recruiting Cincinnati and keeping a prospect like Vann away from places like Alabama, Oklahoma and maybe, eventually, Ohio State.

But Vann is signing a document on Dec. 20 that will legally end his recruitment. And when he does, willingly or not, he's waiving his right to really know all of his options to the full extent. And nobody wins in that world.

Photo credit: Ari Wasserman/The Athletic
 
12-05-2017 03:26 PM
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Post: #237
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
Funny how Ohio State and all the other blue bloods have the best interests of all these late flips in mind when so many of them are forced to greyshirt or end up transferring after three years on the bench.
 
12-05-2017 03:37 PM
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RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 03:26 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  Interesting piece in The Athletic (which I shamelessly believe has become a terrific news source and believe if you’re on the fence about subscribing, definitely do so) on Malik Vann and the early signing period.. could easily ruffle feathers essentially saying it’s bad for the kids because they won’t get to see their full array of options.

https://theathletic.com/175864/2017/12/0...fe-harder/

Malik Vann's commitment to Cincinnati, Ohio State's interest and why the early signing period could make everyone's life harder

FAIRFIELD, Ohio — Malik Vann walked into a conference room at Fairfield High School on Tuesday morning wearing a black Cincinnati Dri-Fit shirt that was barely containing bulging muscles that weren't nearly as big or defined a year ago.

Vann, a four-star defensive end, didn't have true interest from Ohio State a year ago before his muscles blew up the same way he did during his senior season. And before Ohio State got involved, Vann heard Cincinnati coach Luke Fickell's pitch to be a “Hometown Hero,” saw all of his other options and pledged to become a Bearcat to help build something in his city.

As Ohio State typically does in cases like this one, where an in-state star develops into a monster as a senior, Urban Meyer has been in the Fairfield hallways in the last month and his interest in Vann has increased dramatically. While at Fairfield, Meyer even gave Fickell, a former Buckeyes assistant, a courtesy call to inform him that Ohio State might be on the verge of trying to flip the top Cincinnati commit. Fickell, who spent enough time at Ohio State flipping prospects from smaller schools, respectfully understood.

It was clear to everyone — Vann and his coaches — during Ohio State's visit to Fairfield that an offer could be coming.

Nothing about what's happening is atypical. Ohio State swings for big prospects out-of-state, then if it misses, it resorts to recruiting in-state players. But this year that process changes for everyone with the new early signing period Dec. 20. It changes the way prospects operate, it changes the way schools operate and it really makes life for everyone involved harder.

“You can see how in certain cases, the early signing period could create some stress for both sides,” Fairfield coach Jason Krause said. “That's why I am here to make sure my kids consider everything because the world of recruiting just got far more complex.”

As if it wasn't complex enough already.

The 6-foot-3, 271-pound Vann is going to sign on Dec. 20 with Cincinnati, enroll early and start his journey trying to bring Cincinnati football back to prominence. He has absolutely no stress in this situation because as much as he would love a late offer from Ohio State, he's already visited Columbus multiple times, earned offers from Alabama, Oklahoma and others, and has determined that Cincinnati is without question the best fit for him.

“I have no doubts,” Vann said.

But let's create an alternate universe where Vann wasn't enrolling early and had the desire to wait for an Ohio State offer — like so many in-state prospects do — and told Cincinnati he wasn't going to sign early on Dec. 20. Maybe Cincinnati would understand, or maybe Fickell would be forced to find a replacement for the prospect because the program couldn't be held hostage while Vann saw his recruitment out. Fickell has seen this movie too many times to be naive to the fact that Ohio State usually gets what it wants in Ohio.

Do you see how this could be an issue? In this alternate universe, Vann could upset Cincinnati by not opting to sign early, could wait for an offer from Ohio State that never comes, then ultimately be left without any options come the regular National Signing Day in February. When you really think about the early signing period, who is it really helping?

Is it helping Vann and prospects like him? Vann gains absolutely nothing by signing his name to a binding agreement Dec. 20. If he wanted to enroll early as he plans to do, he could have done that with the old rules. If he wanted to wait and use the final six weeks to see what offers came in, he could risk upsetting the current program to which he's committed and risk not getting the offer he wants. It's a very uncomfortable situation.

Is it helping Ohio State? The Buckeyes have a national recruiting net and go after the best of the best, regardless of where they're from. And when it becomes apparent that they may not land big-time commitments from out-of-state prospects, Meyer usually resorts back to very talented prospects like Vann to fill spots. Maybe that seems like Vann would be a backup plan, but what's really the result? Vann getting to go to one of the most successful and elite college football programs in the country? Not a bad deal.

So now Ohio State might be on the market for another defensive end in this class because four-star Tyreke Smith of Cleveland Heights is leaning toward Penn State and four-star Jayson Oweh is still considering Penn State, Michigan and others. The Buckeyes won't get the chance to try to flip Vann because he'll already be signed and Vann won't get to hear Ohio State's best sales pitch and make a decision — with more information — regarding what he wants to do with his life.

Whom is this helping? Do you really want to know? It's helping mid-major programs that usually are susceptible to losing commitments late in the process to bigger programs. There was a coach from Ball State at Fairfield on Tuesday and he loves the new rule because his program can sign — and effectively trap — prospects on Dec. 20, thus stopping that kid from flipping to Purdue or another school that kid would view as an upgrade. That kid will wind up at Ball State and maybe he'll be happy, but that decision will have been made before he truly had all of his options.

College football programs are like the food chain: Division II, mid-major, Power Five and major elite programs. At the end of the recruiting process, the programs in the higher position on the food chain munch off the smaller schools. That's the way it works and programs don't need protection from that. And the NCAA's new rule is only protecting one thing, and the biggest issue is that it's not the kid.

Maybe you think the early signing period is good for the kid because it locks up a spot and allows them to sign earlier. But it's really not. What's happening is that schools and kids are being forced to make decisions faster — and coincidentally in the month that's most common for coaching changes — and that leads to recruiting misses and mistakes on both sides. Meyer won't have the luxury of waiting to offer in-state prospects anymore because flipping prospects late will no longer be an option. That's dangerous.

Maybe you think the flipping in recruiting is obnoxious. You may think, “Why can't kids make a commitment and stick to it?” But what you need to understand is that flipping is good. That means a prospect had a really good option in the school to which he originally committed, but something better came along for that kid and he jumped at it. How is it bad when a kid wants to flip? He's a teenager, isn't making the millions these coaches are making and has the prerogative to make what decision is best for him.

“I never really thought of that until now,” Vann said. “Luke Fickell is the perfect leader and I'd follow him into any situation. I am really happy with my Cincinnati commitment, so the stresses of an early signing period don't really apply to me.”

That's really good news for Vann. He's one of the best defensive ends in the country and he's completely at peace with his decision. And Fickell has done a tremendous job recruiting Cincinnati and keeping a prospect like Vann away from places like Alabama, Oklahoma and maybe, eventually, Ohio State.

But Vann is signing a document on Dec. 20 that will legally end his recruitment. And when he does, willingly or not, he's waiving his right to really know all of his options to the full extent. And nobody wins in that world.

Photo credit: Ari Wasserman/The Athletic

This is the most arrogant writing i've seen since some wacko bucknut proposed BK being the OC at o$u and "coach in waiting" under the sweater vest. i get that where you sit will dictate where you stand but if you are really concerned about students, allow them greater agency and movement instead of the BS NLI, which is only binding on the student. This article isn't about the welfare of students. if it was, he would also offer some consideration to the kid whose scholly gets pulled to accommodate a later offer. But this ahole could give a shite as long as o$u and the like get their way. Eff this guy.
 
12-05-2017 03:46 PM
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BearcatMan Offline
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RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
(12-05-2017 03:46 PM)eroc Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 03:26 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  Interesting piece in The Athletic (which I shamelessly believe has become a terrific news source and believe if you’re on the fence about subscribing, definitely do so) on Malik Vann and the early signing period.. could easily ruffle feathers essentially saying it’s bad for the kids because they won’t get to see their full array of options.

https://theathletic.com/175864/2017/12/0...fe-harder/

Malik Vann's commitment to Cincinnati, Ohio State's interest and why the early signing period could make everyone's life harder

FAIRFIELD, Ohio — Malik Vann walked into a conference room at Fairfield High School on Tuesday morning wearing a black Cincinnati Dri-Fit shirt that was barely containing bulging muscles that weren't nearly as big or defined a year ago.

Vann, a four-star defensive end, didn't have true interest from Ohio State a year ago before his muscles blew up the same way he did during his senior season. And before Ohio State got involved, Vann heard Cincinnati coach Luke Fickell's pitch to be a “Hometown Hero,” saw all of his other options and pledged to become a Bearcat to help build something in his city.

As Ohio State typically does in cases like this one, where an in-state star develops into a monster as a senior, Urban Meyer has been in the Fairfield hallways in the last month and his interest in Vann has increased dramatically. While at Fairfield, Meyer even gave Fickell, a former Buckeyes assistant, a courtesy call to inform him that Ohio State might be on the verge of trying to flip the top Cincinnati commit. Fickell, who spent enough time at Ohio State flipping prospects from smaller schools, respectfully understood.

It was clear to everyone — Vann and his coaches — during Ohio State's visit to Fairfield that an offer could be coming.

Nothing about what's happening is atypical. Ohio State swings for big prospects out-of-state, then if it misses, it resorts to recruiting in-state players. But this year that process changes for everyone with the new early signing period Dec. 20. It changes the way prospects operate, it changes the way schools operate and it really makes life for everyone involved harder.

“You can see how in certain cases, the early signing period could create some stress for both sides,” Fairfield coach Jason Krause said. “That's why I am here to make sure my kids consider everything because the world of recruiting just got far more complex.”

As if it wasn't complex enough already.

The 6-foot-3, 271-pound Vann is going to sign on Dec. 20 with Cincinnati, enroll early and start his journey trying to bring Cincinnati football back to prominence. He has absolutely no stress in this situation because as much as he would love a late offer from Ohio State, he's already visited Columbus multiple times, earned offers from Alabama, Oklahoma and others, and has determined that Cincinnati is without question the best fit for him.

“I have no doubts,” Vann said.

But let's create an alternate universe where Vann wasn't enrolling early and had the desire to wait for an Ohio State offer — like so many in-state prospects do — and told Cincinnati he wasn't going to sign early on Dec. 20. Maybe Cincinnati would understand, or maybe Fickell would be forced to find a replacement for the prospect because the program couldn't be held hostage while Vann saw his recruitment out. Fickell has seen this movie too many times to be naive to the fact that Ohio State usually gets what it wants in Ohio.

Do you see how this could be an issue? In this alternate universe, Vann could upset Cincinnati by not opting to sign early, could wait for an offer from Ohio State that never comes, then ultimately be left without any options come the regular National Signing Day in February. When you really think about the early signing period, who is it really helping?

Is it helping Vann and prospects like him? Vann gains absolutely nothing by signing his name to a binding agreement Dec. 20. If he wanted to enroll early as he plans to do, he could have done that with the old rules. If he wanted to wait and use the final six weeks to see what offers came in, he could risk upsetting the current program to which he's committed and risk not getting the offer he wants. It's a very uncomfortable situation.

Is it helping Ohio State? The Buckeyes have a national recruiting net and go after the best of the best, regardless of where they're from. And when it becomes apparent that they may not land big-time commitments from out-of-state prospects, Meyer usually resorts back to very talented prospects like Vann to fill spots. Maybe that seems like Vann would be a backup plan, but what's really the result? Vann getting to go to one of the most successful and elite college football programs in the country? Not a bad deal.

So now Ohio State might be on the market for another defensive end in this class because four-star Tyreke Smith of Cleveland Heights is leaning toward Penn State and four-star Jayson Oweh is still considering Penn State, Michigan and others. The Buckeyes won't get the chance to try to flip Vann because he'll already be signed and Vann won't get to hear Ohio State's best sales pitch and make a decision — with more information — regarding what he wants to do with his life.

Whom is this helping? Do you really want to know? It's helping mid-major programs that usually are susceptible to losing commitments late in the process to bigger programs. There was a coach from Ball State at Fairfield on Tuesday and he loves the new rule because his program can sign — and effectively trap — prospects on Dec. 20, thus stopping that kid from flipping to Purdue or another school that kid would view as an upgrade. That kid will wind up at Ball State and maybe he'll be happy, but that decision will have been made before he truly had all of his options.

College football programs are like the food chain: Division II, mid-major, Power Five and major elite programs. At the end of the recruiting process, the programs in the higher position on the food chain munch off the smaller schools. That's the way it works and programs don't need protection from that. And the NCAA's new rule is only protecting one thing, and the biggest issue is that it's not the kid.

Maybe you think the early signing period is good for the kid because it locks up a spot and allows them to sign earlier. But it's really not. What's happening is that schools and kids are being forced to make decisions faster — and coincidentally in the month that's most common for coaching changes — and that leads to recruiting misses and mistakes on both sides. Meyer won't have the luxury of waiting to offer in-state prospects anymore because flipping prospects late will no longer be an option. That's dangerous.

Maybe you think the flipping in recruiting is obnoxious. You may think, “Why can't kids make a commitment and stick to it?” But what you need to understand is that flipping is good. That means a prospect had a really good option in the school to which he originally committed, but something better came along for that kid and he jumped at it. How is it bad when a kid wants to flip? He's a teenager, isn't making the millions these coaches are making and has the prerogative to make what decision is best for him.

“I never really thought of that until now,” Vann said. “Luke Fickell is the perfect leader and I'd follow him into any situation. I am really happy with my Cincinnati commitment, so the stresses of an early signing period don't really apply to me.”

That's really good news for Vann. He's one of the best defensive ends in the country and he's completely at peace with his decision. And Fickell has done a tremendous job recruiting Cincinnati and keeping a prospect like Vann away from places like Alabama, Oklahoma and maybe, eventually, Ohio State.

But Vann is signing a document on Dec. 20 that will legally end his recruitment. And when he does, willingly or not, he's waiving his right to really know all of his options to the full extent. And nobody wins in that world.

Photo credit: Ari Wasserman/The Athletic

This is the most arrogant writing i've seen since some wacko bucknut proposed BK being the OC at o$u and "coach in waiting" under the sweater vest. i get that where you sit will dictate where you stand but if you are really concerned about students, allow them greater agency and movement instead of the BS NLI, which is only binding on the student. This article isn't about the welfare of students. if it was, he would also offer some consideration to the kid whose scholly gets pulled to accommodate a later offer. But this ahole could give a shite as long as o$u and the like get their way. Eff this guy.

Yeah...that's an hilariously slanted viewpoint on the Early Signing stuff.
 
12-05-2017 03:54 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #240
RE: Football Class of 2018 Part Deux
BearcatReport.com‏
@BearcatReport
6m6 minutes ago
More BearcatReport.com Retweeted Maniac
Cincinnati lands former 4-star DE Chauncey Manac from Garden City CC (KS) signed with UGA in '16 out of Clinch Co HS in Ga.

Not sure if this was linked.
 
12-05-2017 05:05 PM
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