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Just to drive home the point a little further with these straw men arguments I keep seeing... “new coaches”... “new systems”... blah blah...

TOLEDO
Tim Beckman’s last year (2011) went 8-4
Matt Campbell the following season went 9-4

Matt Campbell’s last year (2015) went 9-2
Jason Candle the following season went 9-4

NORTHERN ILLINOIS
Jerry Kill’s last year (2010) went 10-3
Dave Doeren the following season went 11-3

Dave Doeren’s last year (2012) went 12-1
Rod Carey the following season went 12-2


If you want to look for transitions that went bad, look at Jinks following Babers at BGSU and Enos following Jones/Kelly at CMU.

Note that Toledo and NIU both had ranked teams during that time period, NIU had a BCS berth, and both schools hired from within and were ponying up cash to make their coaches among the highest paid in the MAC.

When you add all of this together and look at the whole picture, I think it’s fairly obvious and speaks for itself why we’re not exactly optimistic or happy with what we’ve seen so far this season.

(11-04-2017 11:50 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Just to drive home the point a little further with these straw men arguments I keep seeing... “new coaches”... “new systems”... blah blah...

TOLEDO
Tim Beckman’s last year (2011) went 8-4
Matt Campbell the following season went 9-4
Campbell inherited a SR QB with game experience

Matt Campbell’s last year (2015) went 9-2
Jason Candle the following season went 9-4
Candle inherited a JR QB Woodside who was clearly coached up and prepared to take over an offense that didn't change! Offense just picked up where they left off the prior year.

NORTHERN ILLINOIS
Jerry Kill’s last year (2010) went 10-3
Dave Doeren the following season went 11-3
Doeren inherited a SR QB (Harnish)

Dave Doeren’s last year (2012) went 12-1
Rod Carey the following season went 12-2
Jordan Lynch ring a bell? Oh and they didn't change scheme


If you want to look for transitions that went bad, look at Jinks following Babers at BGSU and Enos following Jones/Kelly at CMU.

Note that Toledo and NIU both had ranked teams during that time period, NIU had a BCS berth, and both schools hired from within and were ponying up cash to make their coaches among the highest paid in the MAC. All things WMU strives to be.

When you add all of this together and look at the whole picture, I think it’s fairly obvious and speaks for itself why we’re not exactly optimistic or happy with what we’ve seen so far this season.

You see a pattern above? Every one of them returned a QB with skills... and more often than not a scheme that didnt change... I think we really underestimate the importance of having a QB that can change games... WE don't have one right now.

Those are good points, however Woodside is the perfect comparison to what I take issue with.

Both Woodside and Wassink redshirted the previous season before they started and then dealt with a coaching change. Toledo didn’t change their system, and we shouldn’t have either.

The other point is that regardless of the coaching changes and when they happened, you still don’t see dips like ours this big transitioning between QB’s. You see the occasional 1-2 game dips (10 wins to 8-9 win seasons), but you don’t see anything larger than that like ours dipping to 6 wins. I think that’s cause for concern.

Should have hired from within. Probably should have been Matt Simon if he was interested.

If the rumors about Ciarrocca being interested are true, then I would’ve been all for that.

I think Wenger and Simon would’ve been great candidates as well.

The problem with the hire was it was made by our administration which is all over the age of 60 and doesn’t understand what made Fleck connect with the players. He provided an entertainment toootball which was able to keep their attention span. This sounds silly to old school football lifers but for today’s 18-22 year olds is essential.

KB went out and hired what may be a good regular football coach but had no way to understand the bond that previously existed because Lester may have watched the games on TV but wasn’t in the room on Tuesdays and Wednesday’s while Fleck was forming the bond that showed on Saturdays.

That’s what was insane about hiring Lester. You won because the previous regime was so different than any other system in America. Why you would hire someone that wasn’t in the room to see day to day how it worked is stupid. But the administration is mostly only around the players on game day so they didn’t have a better answer for what made it special than Lester did.

(11-04-2017 01:17 PM)Wmufan715 Wrote:  The problem with the hire was it was made by our administration which is all over the age of 60 and doesn’t understand what made Fleck connect with the players. He provided an entertainment toootball which was able to keep their attention span. This sounds silly to old school football lifers but for today’s 18-22 year olds is essential.

KB went out and hired what may be a good regular football coach but had no way to understand the bond that previously existed because Lester may have watched the games on TV but wasn’t in the room on Tuesdays and Wednesday’s while Fleck was forming the bond that showed on Saturdays.

That’s what was insane about hiring Lester. You won because the previous regime was so different than any other system in America. Why you would hire someone that wasn’t in the room to see day to day how it worked is stupid. But the administration is mostly only around the players on game day so they didn’t have a better answer for what made it special than Lester did.

KB wanted to hire Lester instead of Fleck, but Dunn said no. He wanted an outsider, and he was right.

Once Fleck left, it was Lester's job. Others may have been looked at, but only through the lens of "are they as good as Lester". It was obviously set up from the beginning.

I like Tim. A lot. He is a GREAT Bronco and a great man. Great men don't go without criticism, though. He deserves a lot of it.

What he (and Moreland/Esposito/Daoust) don't understand is that this ISN'T the same program they all left. It's a different culture. Different commitment by administration and community. Different expectations.

(11-04-2017 01:35 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(11-04-2017 01:17 PM)Wmufan715 Wrote:  The problem with the hire was it was made by our administration which is all over the age of 60 and doesn’t understand what made Fleck connect with the players. He provided an entertainment toootball which was able to keep their attention span. This sounds silly to old school football lifers but for today’s 18-22 year olds is essential.

KB went out and hired what may be a good regular football coach but had no way to understand the bond that previously existed because Lester may have watched the games on TV but wasn’t in the room on Tuesdays and Wednesday’s while Fleck was forming the bond that showed on Saturdays.

That’s what was insane about hiring Lester. You won because the previous regime was so different than any other system in America. Why you would hire someone that wasn’t in the room to see day to day how it worked is stupid. But the administration is mostly only around the players on game day so they didn’t have a better answer for what made it special than Lester did.

KB wanted to hire Lester instead of Fleck, but Dunn said no. He wanted an outsider, and he was right.

Once Fleck left, it was Lester's job. Others may have been looked at, but only through the lens of "are they as good as Lester". It was obviously set up from the beginning.

I like Tim. A lot. He is a GREAT Bronco and a great man. Great men don't go without criticism, though. He deserves a lot of it.

What he (and Moreland/Esposito/Daoust) don't understand is that this ISN'T the same program they all left. It's a different culture. Different commitment by administration and community. Different expectations.

I would argue Woodside is heads and toes above any MAC QB now or two years ago if compared to FR/Soph at that time. Just because Wassink started at the same time of his career doesn't mean you can compare him to Woodside at the same point. Three years ago were all soph WRs in the MAC on Corey Davis talent level? Players develop at different rates, look at MSU QB this year. He has grown leaps and bounds since the BG game.

Since it's all about the QB in the MAC, we should win the West next year. No Woodside, Roback or Morris.

(11-06-2017 07:02 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  Since it's all about the QB in the MAC, we should win the West next year. No Woodside, Roback or Morris.

Roback hasn't led EMU to anything.
Morris is not that good.
Woodside is a beast but UT always has a solid QB.

(11-08-2017 12:54 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(11-06-2017 07:02 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  Since it's all about the QB in the MAC, we should win the West next year. No Woodside, Roback or Morris.

Roback hasn't led EMU to anything.
Morris is not that good.
Woodside is a beast but UT always has a solid QB.

I agree, but to hear it here, if you don't have an experienced QB, you can't win. Nevermind that Shane Morris is getting the first extended time he's ever gotten in a new system and completely shredded us, but I was just trying to point out for the people who use that as an excuse, we won't have it next year.

(11-08-2017 01:03 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(11-08-2017 12:54 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(11-06-2017 07:02 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  Since it's all about the QB in the MAC, we should win the West next year. No Woodside, Roback or Morris.

Roback hasn't led EMU to anything.
Morris is not that good.
Woodside is a beast but UT always has a solid QB.

I agree, but to hear it here, if you don't have an experienced QB, you can't win. Nevermind that Shane Morris is getting the first extended time he's ever gotten in a new system and completely shredded us, but I was just trying to point out for the people who use that as an excuse, we won't have it next year.

Not to worry. We have a year to come up with new excuses.

(11-08-2017 02:12 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  

(11-08-2017 01:03 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(11-08-2017 12:54 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(11-06-2017 07:02 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  Since it's all about the QB in the MAC, we should win the West next year. No Woodside, Roback or Morris.

Roback hasn't led EMU to anything.
Morris is not that good.
Woodside is a beast but UT always has a solid QB.

I agree, but to hear it here, if you don't have an experienced QB, you can't win. Nevermind that Shane Morris is getting the first extended time he's ever gotten in a new system and completely shredded us, but I was just trying to point out for the people who use that as an excuse, we won't have it next year.

Not to worry. We have a year to come up with new excuses.

Can always just recycle the old ones too.