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Can't take the "sky is falling", entitled d-bag mentality any longer. Wake up to reality. Anyone who thought there would not be challenges/trials this year is as ridiculous as the posters on other boards you like to make fun of. Fire the HC after 1 season? Who the hell would take the job if that took place?

Like it or not, this is almost a complete re-do. Lost a ton of key contributors, not to mention a coaching staff change. In addition, this team was ripe for a hangover from the dream season of last year.

This strawman that people thought this would be another dream season and automatic MAC title is just intellectually dishonest and when you start the conversation that way its impossible to engage.

If you thought last night and the Akron game were acceptable for the highest paid staff in the league then I don't know what to tell you. It's not entitlement when almost everyone on this board helps pay that salary directly or indirectly.

(11-02-2017 01:29 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  This strawman that people thought this would be another dream season and automatic MAC title is just intellectually dishonest and when you start the conversation that way its impossible to engage.

If you thought last night and the Akron game were acceptable for the highest paid staff in the league then I don't know what to tell you. It's not entitlement when almost everyone on this board helps pay that salary directly or indirectly.

Pretty sure much of that 800K salary is actually NOT paid, by the school, at all, but by private individuals.

(11-02-2017 01:58 PM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 01:29 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  This strawman that people thought this would be another dream season and automatic MAC title is just intellectually dishonest and when you start the conversation that way its impossible to engage.

If you thought last night and the Akron game were acceptable for the highest paid staff in the league then I don't know what to tell you. It's not entitlement when almost everyone on this board helps pay that salary directly or indirectly.

Pretty sure much of that 800K salary is actually NOT paid, by the school, at all, but by private individuals.

$350K is paid by the school.

(11-02-2017 01:29 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  This strawman that people thought this would be another dream season and automatic MAC title is just intellectually dishonest and when you start the conversation that way its impossible to engage.

If you thought last night and the Akron game were acceptable for the highest paid staff in the league then I don't know what to tell you. It's not entitlement when almost everyone on this board helps pay that salary directly or indirectly.

Yeah, what a ridiculous expectation to beat both CMU and Akron at Waldo.

(11-02-2017 01:58 PM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 01:29 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  This strawman that people thought this would be another dream season and automatic MAC title is just intellectually dishonest and when you start the conversation that way its impossible to engage.

If you thought last night and the Akron game were acceptable for the highest paid staff in the league then I don't know what to tell you. It's not entitlement when almost everyone on this board helps pay that salary directly or indirectly.

Pretty sure much of that 800K salary is actually NOT paid, by the school, at all, but by private individuals.

Well, nearly half of it IS paid by the school, the school pays for much of the assistant salaries, and if you donate to the football program you are helping pay coaching staff salaries even if indirectly.

Losing to Akron and CMU at home is not acceptable. Don't try to spin it any other way.

"Cupboard was bare"...oh spare me from these excuses. We returned 13 starters from a Cotton Bowl team, plus add in Mr. Clark, and another #1 recruiting class. We returned O-line, all RBs, TE, most of D-line, all LBs, most of DBs. QB is a big hurdle to overcome, but what is the excuse for poor play from our receivers? Inexperience is one thing. Consistently dropping balls that hit you in the hands/chest is another thing.

Oh, and it's been mentioned, but...Lester is by far the highest paid coach in the MAC. He's getting paid to do a job. He's getting paid to win. He better start delivering.

10 days to prepare...

I dont know anyone who thought we would have another season like last year, and frankly I didn't know what to expect, as Lester wasn't who I would have hired (and I said so at the time). I do think though that having as many tremendous players coming back on a defense which was outstanding under our old coaching staff, as well as a tremendous group of offensive linemen, and fantastic quality and depth in the offensive backfield, on top of talented (albeit inexperienced) receivers and QBs (not to mention inheriting a fantastic D-lineman who has played outstanding), we would easily handle the lousy teams on our conference schedule, and contend favorably against the best teams like Toledo and NIU. We beat a few of our weak opponents only by the grace of God, and lost to two very below average MAC teams in Akron and CMU, not because we didn't have the players to win, but because of how we played. I'm not sure if there is anyone on the planet who believes we have a legitimate chance to beat Toledo or NIU; and that probably includes our players. What has happened to a football program which had made incredible grounds over the last three years, and was loaded with talent, experience, confidence and good attitude is beyond pathetic.

There is nothing wrong with calling out this coaching staff for what it is. Unfortunately, most on this board (who have watched WMU football with passion for many years) agreed when it happened that KB was too quick to hire Lester, and that other options would have been better (if available), and most of us also questioned Lester's choices of assistants. Our reason for concern has been manifesting itself throughout the season, and certainly it came to a head last night, if it hadn't after the Akron loss.

Nobody wants to say it, because he has become a pariah in Kalamazoo after how he departed (and too many on this forum hated him even when they had no reason to), based on his "new-school", and over-the-top style alone, but Fleck did truly change the culture of our program, in so many ways, all of which were calculated to result in wins, and players responded because they believed in what he was doing, and knew that Fleck would do whatever he needed to, without hesitation, and wasnt afraid to do things that conventional wisdom might consider too risky. He played to win. I am not sure why this staff came in and decided to reinvent the wheel. Frankly they should have continued every single philosophy Fleck had, including RTB, as those were all things our players understood. Lester should have also done whatever he could to keep our old D-Coordinator. No reason not to, other than wanting to hire your buddies based on "old times" when they all talked about how cool it would be if they could all end up coaching together and having a program to kill....er... i mean run themselves.

Madness is watching your alma mater crap the bed by blowing a game they should have won by three touchdowns against your arch rival, when that arch rival is a lousy team who also played terribly in the game, but won it because the decision makers on the sideline decided to play not to lose instead of playing to win. So, in that sense we should (and should have) stop the madness.

Consider this...

We have two convincing wins on the season: Wagner and Ball State.

(11-02-2017 01:26 PM)Wheres_Waldo? Wrote:  Can't take the "sky is falling", entitled d-bag mentality any longer. Wake up to reality. Anyone who thought there would not be challenges/trials this year is as ridiculous as the posters on other boards you like to make fun of. Fire the HC after 1 season? Who the hell would take the job if that took place?

Like it or not, this is almost a complete re-do. Lost a ton of key contributors, not to mention a coaching staff change. In addition, this team was ripe for a hangover from the dream season of last year.

There are two things any coach MUST accomplish annually at WMU:

1) Play meaningful games with championship implications in November.
2) Beat CMU.

Well, we just accomplished #1, but was only on November 1, and proceeded to utterly blow#2 with one of the worst 4th quarters in the history of WMU football (ranking up there with 2004 and 2010 giveaways at CMU).

The 2017 season is done. It is a disappointing failure. Anything more is just lipstick on a pig. Make a bowl game with a 6-6 record? Yippee-skippee.

How did we lose - at home - to the team with the ugliest uniforms in college football?! Cringe-worthy and TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!

What Lester makes is not relevant. If he is making $100,000 or 1,000,000 a year he should do the best that he can do; and maybe he is. I am sure Lester is coaching as hard and to the best of what he knows to do, and firmly believes that his philosophies should bring success. He is simply wrong, and the decisions he has made, both from the coaches he hired, the discussions he has had with those coaches, the delegation of responsibility, the way he teaches and motivates players, and the pregame plan and game strategy, are poor, and haven't improved over the course of the season. This team is actually worse now than it was at the beginning of the season, and seems to progressively be getting less ready to play as we go.

But at least the guy at the top is still smiling. Perhaps the salary does have something to do with that.

Sunshine blowers unite.

I sense much pain....

(11-02-2017 03:24 PM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  I sense much pain....

Abject Disappointment. CMU being who they are and they way we lost to them. When we had them down 28-14 and were threatening 2nd and Goal on their 8 yard line, I thought this is it! We have them. Even if we don't punch it in here, we kick a FG and seal the win.

Then the fumble and the way the fumble happened-it appeared Divine Providence was against us.

Then the Franklin fumble when we were desperately trying to run the clock down.

Then the onside kick.

Talk about the wheels falling off one after the other.

(11-02-2017 02:27 PM)brovol Wrote:  I dont know anyone who thought we would have another season like last year, and frankly I didn't know what to expect, as Lester wasn't who I would have hired (and I said so at the time). I do think though that having as many tremendous players coming back on a defense which was outstanding under our old coaching staff, as well as a tremendous group of offensive linemen, and fantastic quality and depth in the offensive backfield, on top of talented (albeit inexperienced) receivers and QBs (not to mention inheriting a fantastic D-lineman who has played outstanding), we would easily handle the lousy teams on our conference schedule, and contend favorably against the best teams like Toledo and NIU. We beat a few of our weak opponents only by the grace of God, and lost to two very below average MAC teams in Akron and CMU, not because we didn't have the players to win, but because of how we played. I'm not sure if there is anyone on the planet who believes we have a legitimate chance to beat Toledo or NIU; and that probably includes our players. What has happened to a football program which had made incredible grounds over the last three years, and was loaded with talent, experience, confidence and good attitude is beyond pathetic.

There is nothing wrong with calling out this coaching staff for what it is. Unfortunately, most on this board (who have watched WMU football with passion for many years) agreed when it happened that KB was too quick to hire Lester, and that other options would have been better (if available), and most of us also questioned Lester's choices of assistants. Our reason for concern has been manifesting itself throughout the season, and certainly it came to a head last night, if it hadn't after the Akron loss.

Nobody wants to say it, because he has become a pariah in Kalamazoo after how he departed (and too many on this forum hated him even when they had no reason to), based on his "new-school", and over-the-top style alone, but Fleck did truly change the culture of our program, in so many ways, all of which were calculated to result in wins, and players responded because they believed in what he was doing, and knew that Fleck would do whatever he needed to, without hesitation, and wasnt afraid to do things that conventional wisdom might consider too risky. He played to win. I am not sure why this staff came in and decided to reinvent the wheel. Frankly they should have continued every single philosophy Fleck had, including RTB, as those were all things our players understood. Lester should have also done whatever he could to keep our old D-Coordinator. No reason not to, other than wanting to hire your buddies based on "old times" when they all talked about how cool it would be if they could all end up coaching together and having a program to kill....er... i mean run themselves.

Madness is watching your alma mater crap the bed by blowing a game they should have won by three touchdowns against your arch rival, when that arch rival is a lousy team who also played terribly in the game, but won it because the decision makers on the sideline decided to play not to lose instead of playing to win. So, in that sense we should (and should have) stop the madness.

(11-02-2017 02:27 PM)brovol Wrote:  I dont know anyone who thought we would have another season like last year, and frankly I didn't know what to expect, as Lester wasn't who I would have hired (and I said so at the time). I do think though that having as many tremendous players coming back on a defense which was outstanding under our old coaching staff, as well as a tremendous group of offensive linemen, and fantastic quality and depth in the offensive backfield, on top of talented (albeit inexperienced) receivers and QBs (not to mention inheriting a fantastic D-lineman who has played outstanding), we would easily handle the lousy teams on our conference schedule, and contend favorably against the best teams like Toledo and NIU. We beat a few of our weak opponents only by the grace of God, and lost to two very below average MAC teams in Akron and CMU, not because we didn't have the players to win, but because of how we played. I'm not sure if there is anyone on the planet who believes we have a legitimate chance to beat Toledo or NIU; and that probably includes our players. What has happened to a football program which had made incredible grounds over the last three years, and was loaded with talent, experience, confidence and good attitude is beyond pathetic.

There is nothing wrong with calling out this coaching staff for what it is. Unfortunately, most on this board (who have watched WMU football with passion for many years) agreed when it happened that KB was too quick to hire Lester, and that other options would have been better (if available), and most of us also questioned Lester's choices of assistants. Our reason for concern has been manifesting itself throughout the season, and certainly it came to a head last night, if it hadn't after the Akron loss.

Nobody wants to say it, because he has become a pariah in Kalamazoo after how he departed (and too many on this forum hated him even when they had no reason to), based on his "new-school", and over-the-top style alone, but Fleck did truly change the culture of our program, in so many ways, all of which were calculated to result in wins, and players responded because they believed in what he was doing, and knew that Fleck would do whatever he needed to, without hesitation, and wasnt afraid to do things that conventional wisdom might consider too risky. He played to win. I am not sure why this staff came in and decided to reinvent the wheel. Frankly they should have continued every single philosophy Fleck had, including RTB, as those were all things our players understood. Lester should have also done whatever he could to keep our old D-Coordinator. No reason not to, other than wanting to hire your buddies based on "old times" when they all talked about how cool it would be if they could all end up coaching together and having a program to kill....er... i mean run themselves.

Madness is watching your alma mater crap the bed by blowing a game they should have won by three touchdowns against your arch rival, when that arch rival is a lousy team who also played terribly in the game, but won it because the decision makers on the sideline decided to play not to lose instead of playing to win. So, in that sense we should (and should have) stop the madness.

Well said. Please wrap this up in an email and send to KB.

(11-02-2017 02:27 PM)brovol Wrote:  I dont know anyone who thought we would have another season like last year, and frankly I didn't know what to expect, as Lester wasn't who I would have hired (and I said so at the time). I do think though that having as many tremendous players coming back on a defense which was outstanding under our old coaching staff, as well as a tremendous group of offensive linemen, and fantastic quality and depth in the offensive backfield, on top of talented (albeit inexperienced) receivers and QBs (not to mention inheriting a fantastic D-lineman who has played outstanding), we would easily handle the lousy teams on our conference schedule, and contend favorably against the best teams like Toledo and NIU. We beat a few of our weak opponents only by the grace of God, and lost to two very below average MAC teams in Akron and CMU, not because we didn't have the players to win, but because of how we played. I'm not sure if there is anyone on the planet who believes we have a legitimate chance to beat Toledo or NIU; and that probably includes our players. What has happened to a football program which had made incredible grounds over the last three years, and was loaded with talent, experience, confidence and good attitude is beyond pathetic.

There is nothing wrong with calling out this coaching staff for what it is. Unfortunately, most on this board (who have watched WMU football with passion for many years) agreed when it happened that KB was too quick to hire Lester, and that other options would have been better (if available), and most of us also questioned Lester's choices of assistants. Our reason for concern has been manifesting itself throughout the season, and certainly it came to a head last night, if it hadn't after the Akron loss.

Nobody wants to say it, because he has become a pariah in Kalamazoo after how he departed (and too many on this forum hated him even when they had no reason to), based on his "new-school", and over-the-top style alone, but Fleck did truly change the culture of our program, in so many ways, all of which were calculated to result in wins, and players responded because they believed in what he was doing, and knew that Fleck would do whatever he needed to, without hesitation, and wasnt afraid to do things that conventional wisdom might consider too risky. He played to win. I am not sure why this staff came in and decided to reinvent the wheel. Frankly they should have continued every single philosophy Fleck had, including RTB, as those were all things our players understood. Lester should have also done whatever he could to keep our old D-Coordinator. No reason not to, other than wanting to hire your buddies based on "old times" when they all talked about how cool it would be if they could all end up coaching together and having a program to kill....er... i mean run themselves.

Madness is watching your alma mater crap the bed by blowing a game they should have won by three touchdowns against your arch rival, when that arch rival is a lousy team who also played terribly in the game, but won it because the decision makers on the sideline decided to play not to lose instead of playing to win. So, in that sense we should (and should have) stop the madness.

(11-02-2017 04:11 PM)backinkazoo Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 02:27 PM)brovol Wrote:  I dont know anyone who thought we would have another season like last year, and frankly I didn't know what to expect, as Lester wasn't who I would have hired (and I said so at the time). I do think though that having as many tremendous players coming back on a defense which was outstanding under our old coaching staff, as well as a tremendous group of offensive linemen, and fantastic quality and depth in the offensive backfield, on top of talented (albeit inexperienced) receivers and QBs (not to mention inheriting a fantastic D-lineman who has played outstanding), we would easily handle the lousy teams on our conference schedule, and contend favorably against the best teams like Toledo and NIU. We beat a few of our weak opponents only by the grace of God, and lost to two very below average MAC teams in Akron and CMU, not because we didn't have the players to win, but because of how we played. I'm not sure if there is anyone on the planet who believes we have a legitimate chance to beat Toledo or NIU; and that probably includes our players. What has happened to a football program which had made incredible grounds over the last three years, and was loaded with talent, experience, confidence and good attitude is beyond pathetic.

There is nothing wrong with calling out this coaching staff for what it is. Unfortunately, most on this board (who have watched WMU football with passion for many years) agreed when it happened that KB was too quick to hire Lester, and that other options would have been better (if available), and most of us also questioned Lester's choices of assistants. Our reason for concern has been manifesting itself throughout the season, and certainly it came to a head last night, if it hadn't after the Akron loss.

Nobody wants to say it, because he has become a pariah in Kalamazoo after how he departed (and too many on this forum hated him even when they had no reason to), based on his "new-school", and over-the-top style alone, but Fleck did truly change the culture of our program, in so many ways, all of which were calculated to result in wins, and players responded because they believed in what he was doing, and knew that Fleck would do whatever he needed to, without hesitation, and wasnt afraid to do things that conventional wisdom might consider too risky. He played to win. I am not sure why this staff came in and decided to reinvent the wheel. Frankly they should have continued every single philosophy Fleck had, including RTB, as those were all things our players understood. Lester should have also done whatever he could to keep our old D-Coordinator. No reason not to, other than wanting to hire your buddies based on "old times" when they all talked about how cool it would be if they could all end up coaching together and having a program to kill....er... i mean run themselves.

Madness is watching your alma mater crap the bed by blowing a game they should have won by three touchdowns against your arch rival, when that arch rival is a lousy team who also played terribly in the game, but won it because the decision makers on the sideline decided to play not to lose instead of playing to win. So, in that sense we should (and should have) stop the madness.

SPOT ON. I was concerned by the Idaho game, and nothing has changed. It's not the losing, but rather how we play.

Also agreed with brovol.

• The ball is the program
• Nekton mentality
• Prefontaine pace
• Farmer's alliance
• Don't let the circumstances dictate your behavior
• Change your best

I thought TL was keeping the culture intact? If so, where has all this gone?

That's right, it's in the trash in favor of moping on the sidelines appearing aloof and disinterested in the offensive huddle at the sideline.

Hate Fleck all you want, but there's no denying the kids were eating, breathing, and living these mantras.