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We have seen this all before. All the excuses. The "well shucks" approach to the program when we lose winnable games. All the "next year" chatter. All the re-arranging of expectations.

All of it.

I'm sick and tired of it.

We either grow as a program or we slide back to mediocrity.

Even if Fleck and staff were still here - without Terrell and Davis (and Hampton?) this was going to be a different team.

Especially opening at USC and MSU.

(11-05-2017 03:05 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Even if Fleck and staff were still here - without Terrell and Davis (and Hampton?) this was going to be a different team.

Especially opening at USC and MSU.

Nobody thinks differently.

(11-05-2017 01:40 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  We either grow as a program or we slide back to mediocrity.

Unfortunately, I think deep down (or maybe not that deep) we all knew the answer back in January.

Wow you people are really getting yourselves worked up into a tizzy.

Take a deep breathe and try to relax before your brains explode.

We all be like:

(11-05-2017 09:04 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Wow you people are really getting yourselves worked up into a tizzy.

Take a deep breathe and try to relax before your brains explode.

You people!?! What do you mean, 'you people'?!?

(11-05-2017 03:05 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Even if Fleck and staff were still here - without Terrell and Davis (and Hampton?) this was going to be a different team.

Especially opening at USC and MSU.

I never expected this year's team to repeat an undefeated season. NEVER! I did expect this team to beat Akron at home and Central at home. We lose more pieces this year. So what next year 5 and 7?

(11-05-2017 03:05 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Even if Fleck and staff were still here - without Terrell and Davis (and Hampton?) this was going to be a different team.

Especially opening at USC and MSU.

I think there's quite a few Minnesota fans that wish we could take back Fleck after this year...

Last years WMU team was a perfect storm at a perfect time... schedule lined up perfectly, peaked at QB and WR at the right time... Had enough pieces on defense to hold up in some close games (Northwester, Ohio)... PJ had reached the pinnacle of his rah rah rah row the boat mantra ( I feel even the players were starting to get sick of his schtick )....

This year was bound to be a snap back to reality... and I put the blame solely on PJ for this one... He OBVIOUSLY was putting all his ducks in the success of last years team... He lost quite a few high profile recruits over his last few years either through poor ability to weed out the bad seeds or not taking a kids scholastic capabilities seriously enough... We have kids on this years team that can compete, but unlike the other teams in the MAC that STAY on top.... they were built to sustain... whereas last years team seems to have been built to propel PJ forward... At this point it is just conjecture on my part... but as I watch this season unfold its apparent that there were quite a few gaps that PJ left behind... Quite a few gaps in the two deep... Watching PJ trot out Flacco last year a handful of times and NEVER letting him actually throw a pass... that was telling... We were going to be thin at the position this year regardless... PJ didn't seem all that interested in creating much QB competition behind Terrell... and that is showing this year.

PJ loved Tanner Morgan. We were 48 hours from him enrolling in January and the hope I believe was for him to go through spring ball and compete for the starting job. There were 5 guys that were supposed to enroll early.

Now there’s no guarantee they would have made it to August like last year’s crop didn’t but I think that was the plan. Weren’t there some good WRs that were supposed to enroll early?

(11-06-2017 08:33 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I think there's quite a few Minnesota fans that wish we could take back Fleck after this year...

Last years WMU team was a perfect storm at a perfect time... schedule lined up perfectly, peaked at QB and WR at the right time... Had enough pieces on defense to hold up in some close games (Northwester, Ohio)... PJ had reached the pinnacle of his rah rah rah row the boat mantra ( I feel even the players were starting to get sick of his schtick )....

This year was bound to be a snap back to reality... and I put the blame solely on PJ for this one... He OBVIOUSLY was putting all his ducks in the success of last years team... He lost quite a few high profile recruits over his last few years either through poor ability to weed out the bad seeds or not taking a kids scholastic capabilities seriously enough... We have kids on this years team that can compete, but unlike the other teams in the MAC that STAY on top.... they were built to sustain... whereas last years team seems to have been built to propel PJ forward... At this point it is just conjecture on my part... but as I watch this season unfold its apparent that there were quite a few gaps that PJ left behind... Quite a few gaps in the two deep... Watching PJ trot out Flacco last year a handful of times and NEVER letting him actually throw a pass... that was telling... We were going to be thin at the position this year regardless... PJ didn't seem all that interested in creating much QB competition behind Terrell... and that is showing this year.

I pretty much agree with all of this. My only thought, however, is that some of the issues that you're seeing this year would likely not be happening with Fleck as the HC. Tired of his RTB shtick or not, you would never see a team complacent on the sideline with a 14 pt lead against a rival. Just wouldn't happen.

I don't want to turn this into another Fleck v. Lester thing. You have a former coach that extrinsically motivated his players and that sparked the fire of intrinsic motivation. Rah rah sometimes is all that it takes...it is a base "mob mentality". This year, absent the same rah rah, you have some of the intrinsic "fire" not there. Now, that's not to say it's a bad thing to be fostering that intrinsic motivation and "we're on a business trip" mentality. Being caught in that transition with everything that you've mentioned above has created the "perfect storm" that is the antithesis of everything that happened last year.

These discussions about what would we be if Fleck was still the coach with all of our gaps, obstacles,etc this year... I'm curious what we would have been last year with Lester as the coach. Same perfect storm of talent, experience, breaks... it would be interesting to see how that would have played out. But, hypothetical and all...

(11-05-2017 11:02 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(11-05-2017 09:04 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  Wow you people are really getting yourselves worked up into a tizzy.

Take a deep breathe and try to relax before your brains explode.

You people!?! What do you mean, 'you people'?!?

You beat me to this....

(11-05-2017 03:05 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Even if Fleck and staff were still here - without Terrell and Davis (and Hampton?) this was going to be a different team.

Especially opening at USC and MSU.

Agreed.

But this staff clearly blew winnable games against Dantonio's rape apologists, Akron and CMU. Fleck & crew may have too, but that is nothing but conjecture.

It is early November. WMU football is no longer in championship contention and has lost to its rival. Disappointing and inexcusable, regardless of the reasons and excuses.

It is about positive results. You either have them, or you don't.