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2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
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trueeagle98 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
(12-13-2017 05:30 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 08:05 AM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  Since GS doesn't' have men's track/CC we miss out on a lot of points. It seems that's where most points are given is in men's and women's track and field. You will almost always here that GS fans don't care about this trophy and that would be true. I remember one year GS won the SOCON championship is basically 5+ sports (football, baseball, basketball, and a few others) and didn't even come close to winning the SOCON equivalent. We actually do pretty good at the non-revenue sports, but as soon as a coach starts winning they up and leave for a bigger contract. If you think the turnover in football is high the other sports are just as bad if not worse.

Good luck to all the schools that compete for this trophy, but GS is out every year from the start.

Don't take this as anti GaSo writings from a Mountaineer, but a few points.

GS never did compete much for the SoCon Cup's (Commissioner's Cup for Men's sports and Germann Cup for women's sports.) as you stated. There was not merged cup for both sexes.

I will not state for every year and every sport, but overall on the women's side the performance was I thought very lacking, as in looking from the outside one would think the women's side was not even really considered. Had there been a Title IX lawsuit I would have thought, "Yeah I can see that." The men did do better. And yes not sponsoring many sports in the SoCon did not help, but overall on a per sport basis the averages were not very good either to be honest. Many years GS came off as a one-horse pony with football, and there were some good years with baseball and golf, but overall not very good.

Before App left the SoCon I made a huge database of the sports cups and when that data ran out in the 1970's and early 1980's I reconstructed what I could from found data on various media guides from the conference. Sports like swimming and diving were not included as I could never track down the SoCon results for those sports, and gynamastics I think was also a SoCon sport at one time.

Now with all of that said, props to GS for sponsoring some non SB sports such as Swimming and Diving and Rifle I believe as well. S&D was part of the GS lineup even in the SoCon days.

If you like I will send you or post the link to the spreadsheet for SoCon Cups from 1969 to at least when App and GS left the SoCon. You can verify some of my comments.

Good luck on the sports you do sponsor and especially the one's that don't complete with App!


Oh I realize that 95% we weren't even close and the women's were bad more often than not. Again that had to do with a lot of coaching turnover. Just as soon as a coach would start winning they would be off to greener pastures. The point was that even when (in men's sports mostly) we actually did very well (like winning 4 or 5 championships) GS would still be near the bottom. So GS fans just take each sport individually and focus on a select few. Currently our S&D are doing really well and is Rifle (both women's sports). IF we win a championship in a non-revenue we give a thumbs up and post congrats, but that's about it. Volleyball and Women's Basketball seem (I haven't looked at recent records, just observations from postings) to be improving and we added women's golf last year.

The main point is that without Men's T&F we will never win a Bubas Cup. Ever. Too much emphasis is put in that area to overcome.
12-14-2017 12:44 PM
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CatMom Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
(12-14-2017 12:44 PM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 05:30 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 08:05 AM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  Since GS doesn't' have men's track/CC we miss out on a lot of points. It seems that's where most points are given is in men's and women's track and field. You will almost always here that GS fans don't care about this trophy and that would be true. I remember one year GS won the SOCON championship is basically 5+ sports (football, baseball, basketball, and a few others) and didn't even come close to winning the SOCON equivalent. We actually do pretty good at the non-revenue sports, but as soon as a coach starts winning they up and leave for a bigger contract. If you think the turnover in football is high the other sports are just as bad if not worse.

Good luck to all the schools that compete for this trophy, but GS is out every year from the start.

Don't take this as anti GaSo writings from a Mountaineer, but a few points.

GS never did compete much for the SoCon Cup's (Commissioner's Cup for Men's sports and Germann Cup for women's sports.) as you stated. There was not merged cup for both sexes.

I will not state for every year and every sport, but overall on the women's side the performance was I thought very lacking, as in looking from the outside one would think the women's side was not even really considered. Had there been a Title IX lawsuit I would have thought, "Yeah I can see that." The men did do better. And yes not sponsoring many sports in the SoCon did not help, but overall on a per sport basis the averages were not very good either to be honest. Many years GS came off as a one-horse pony with football, and there were some good years with baseball and golf, but overall not very good.

Before App left the SoCon I made a huge database of the sports cups and when that data ran out in the 1970's and early 1980's I reconstructed what I could from found data on various media guides from the conference. Sports like swimming and diving were not included as I could never track down the SoCon results for those sports, and gynamastics I think was also a SoCon sport at one time.

Now with all of that said, props to GS for sponsoring some non SB sports such as Swimming and Diving and Rifle I believe as well. S&D was part of the GS lineup even in the SoCon days.

If you like I will send you or post the link to the spreadsheet for SoCon Cups from 1969 to at least when App and GS left the SoCon. You can verify some of my comments.

Good luck on the sports you do sponsor and especially the one's that don't complete with App!


Oh I realize that 95% we weren't even close and the women's were bad more often than not. Again that had to do with a lot of coaching turnover. Just as soon as a coach would start winning they would be off to greener pastures. The point was that even when (in men's sports mostly) we actually did very well (like winning 4 or 5 championships) GS would still be near the bottom. So GS fans just take each sport individually and focus on a select few. Currently our S&D are doing really well and is Rifle (both women's sports). IF we win a championship in a non-revenue we give a thumbs up and post congrats, but that's about it. Volleyball and Women's Basketball seem (I haven't looked at recent records, just observations from postings) to be improving and we added women's golf last year.

The main point is that without Men's T&F we will never win a Bubas Cup. Ever. Too much emphasis is put in that area to overcome.
Pfft, we don't have a football team and still have finished top 3 every year we've been here (not to take away from UTA doing the same without an actual football team, no soccer teams or women's golf)
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2017 01:11 PM by CatMom.)
12-14-2017 01:09 PM
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trueeagle98 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
(12-14-2017 01:09 PM)CatMom Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:44 PM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 05:30 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 08:05 AM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  Since GS doesn't' have men's track/CC we miss out on a lot of points. It seems that's where most points are given is in men's and women's track and field. You will almost always here that GS fans don't care about this trophy and that would be true. I remember one year GS won the SOCON championship is basically 5+ sports (football, baseball, basketball, and a few others) and didn't even come close to winning the SOCON equivalent. We actually do pretty good at the non-revenue sports, but as soon as a coach starts winning they up and leave for a bigger contract. If you think the turnover in football is high the other sports are just as bad if not worse.

Good luck to all the schools that compete for this trophy, but GS is out every year from the start.

Don't take this as anti GaSo writings from a Mountaineer, but a few points.

GS never did compete much for the SoCon Cup's (Commissioner's Cup for Men's sports and Germann Cup for women's sports.) as you stated. There was not merged cup for both sexes.

I will not state for every year and every sport, but overall on the women's side the performance was I thought very lacking, as in looking from the outside one would think the women's side was not even really considered. Had there been a Title IX lawsuit I would have thought, "Yeah I can see that." The men did do better. And yes not sponsoring many sports in the SoCon did not help, but overall on a per sport basis the averages were not very good either to be honest. Many years GS came off as a one-horse pony with football, and there were some good years with baseball and golf, but overall not very good.

Before App left the SoCon I made a huge database of the sports cups and when that data ran out in the 1970's and early 1980's I reconstructed what I could from found data on various media guides from the conference. Sports like swimming and diving were not included as I could never track down the SoCon results for those sports, and gynamastics I think was also a SoCon sport at one time.

Now with all of that said, props to GS for sponsoring some non SB sports such as Swimming and Diving and Rifle I believe as well. S&D was part of the GS lineup even in the SoCon days.

If you like I will send you or post the link to the spreadsheet for SoCon Cups from 1969 to at least when App and GS left the SoCon. You can verify some of my comments.

Good luck on the sports you do sponsor and especially the one's that don't complete with App!


Oh I realize that 95% we weren't even close and the women's were bad more often than not. Again that had to do with a lot of coaching turnover. Just as soon as a coach would start winning they would be off to greener pastures. The point was that even when (in men's sports mostly) we actually did very well (like winning 4 or 5 championships) GS would still be near the bottom. So GS fans just take each sport individually and focus on a select few. Currently our S&D are doing really well and is Rifle (both women's sports). IF we win a championship in a non-revenue we give a thumbs up and post congrats, but that's about it. Volleyball and Women's Basketball seem (I haven't looked at recent records, just observations from postings) to be improving and we added women's golf last year.

The main point is that without Men's T&F we will never win a Bubas Cup. Ever. Too much emphasis is put in that area to overcome.
Pfft, we don't have a football team and still have finished top 3 every year we've been here (not to take away from UTA doing the same without an actual football team, no soccer teams or women's golf)

I may be remembering this wrong, but isn't there a lot of points for all the different events in the T&F sports? I thought you could get 20+ pts alone in men's T&F through the cross country, 100M, relay, etc... It wasn't just lumped into one sport, but separated out. Also, is women's golf sponsored by the SBC? I just don't think we offer enough sports in the SBC that count for the most points. Now some don't offer football and miss out on 12 (soon to be 10pts), Men's soccer only gives 6pts so it is half of most of the other sports offered. Again this is something that App (who offered every sport in the SOCON and probably the SBC plus more) has a built in advantage. So until GS offers T&F we will never compete for this cup and even if we did most GS fans wouldn't care. We are pretty much have one sport and then a backup during the off season.
12-14-2017 01:20 PM
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CatMom Offline
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Post: #24
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
(12-14-2017 01:20 PM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 01:09 PM)CatMom Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:44 PM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 05:30 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 08:05 AM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  Since GS doesn't' have men's track/CC we miss out on a lot of points. It seems that's where most points are given is in men's and women's track and field. You will almost always here that GS fans don't care about this trophy and that would be true. I remember one year GS won the SOCON championship is basically 5+ sports (football, baseball, basketball, and a few others) and didn't even come close to winning the SOCON equivalent. We actually do pretty good at the non-revenue sports, but as soon as a coach starts winning they up and leave for a bigger contract. If you think the turnover in football is high the other sports are just as bad if not worse.

Good luck to all the schools that compete for this trophy, but GS is out every year from the start.

Don't take this as anti GaSo writings from a Mountaineer, but a few points.

GS never did compete much for the SoCon Cup's (Commissioner's Cup for Men's sports and Germann Cup for women's sports.) as you stated. There was not merged cup for both sexes.

I will not state for every year and every sport, but overall on the women's side the performance was I thought very lacking, as in looking from the outside one would think the women's side was not even really considered. Had there been a Title IX lawsuit I would have thought, "Yeah I can see that." The men did do better. And yes not sponsoring many sports in the SoCon did not help, but overall on a per sport basis the averages were not very good either to be honest. Many years GS came off as a one-horse pony with football, and there were some good years with baseball and golf, but overall not very good.

Before App left the SoCon I made a huge database of the sports cups and when that data ran out in the 1970's and early 1980's I reconstructed what I could from found data on various media guides from the conference. Sports like swimming and diving were not included as I could never track down the SoCon results for those sports, and gynamastics I think was also a SoCon sport at one time.

Now with all of that said, props to GS for sponsoring some non SB sports such as Swimming and Diving and Rifle I believe as well. S&D was part of the GS lineup even in the SoCon days.

If you like I will send you or post the link to the spreadsheet for SoCon Cups from 1969 to at least when App and GS left the SoCon. You can verify some of my comments.

Good luck on the sports you do sponsor and especially the one's that don't complete with App!


Oh I realize that 95% we weren't even close and the women's were bad more often than not. Again that had to do with a lot of coaching turnover. Just as soon as a coach would start winning they would be off to greener pastures. The point was that even when (in men's sports mostly) we actually did very well (like winning 4 or 5 championships) GS would still be near the bottom. So GS fans just take each sport individually and focus on a select few. Currently our S&D are doing really well and is Rifle (both women's sports). IF we win a championship in a non-revenue we give a thumbs up and post congrats, but that's about it. Volleyball and Women's Basketball seem (I haven't looked at recent records, just observations from postings) to be improving and we added women's golf last year.

The main point is that without Men's T&F we will never win a Bubas Cup. Ever. Too much emphasis is put in that area to overcome.
Pfft, we don't have a football team and still have finished top 3 every year we've been here (not to take away from UTA doing the same without an actual football team, no soccer teams or women's golf)

I may be remembering this wrong, but isn't there a lot of points for all the different events in the T&F sports? I thought you could get 20+ pts alone in men's T&F through the cross country, 100M, relay, etc... It wasn't just lumped into one sport, but separated out. Also, is women's golf sponsored by the SBC? I just don't think we offer enough sports in the SBC that count for the most points. Now some don't offer football and miss out on 12 (soon to be 10pts), Men's soccer only gives 6pts so it is half of most of the other sports offered. Again this is something that App (who offered every sport in the SOCON and probably the SBC plus more) has a built in advantage. So until GS offers T&F we will never compete for this cup and even if we did most GS fans wouldn't care. We are pretty much have one sport and then a backup during the off season.
You get points per event that adds up to determine what place the whole team finishes in (in a meet or tournament) but the max points for T&F and Xcountry (for the cup) are by how many teams participate; just like every other sport.
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2017 05:16 PM by CatMom.)
12-14-2017 04:57 PM
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Post: #25
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
(12-14-2017 04:57 PM)CatMom Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 01:20 PM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 01:09 PM)CatMom Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 12:44 PM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  
(12-13-2017 05:30 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  Don't take this as anti GaSo writings from a Mountaineer, but a few points.

GS never did compete much for the SoCon Cup's (Commissioner's Cup for Men's sports and Germann Cup for women's sports.) as you stated. There was not merged cup for both sexes.

I will not state for every year and every sport, but overall on the women's side the performance was I thought very lacking, as in looking from the outside one would think the women's side was not even really considered. Had there been a Title IX lawsuit I would have thought, "Yeah I can see that." The men did do better. And yes not sponsoring many sports in the SoCon did not help, but overall on a per sport basis the averages were not very good either to be honest. Many years GS came off as a one-horse pony with football, and there were some good years with baseball and golf, but overall not very good.

Before App left the SoCon I made a huge database of the sports cups and when that data ran out in the 1970's and early 1980's I reconstructed what I could from found data on various media guides from the conference. Sports like swimming and diving were not included as I could never track down the SoCon results for those sports, and gynamastics I think was also a SoCon sport at one time.

Now with all of that said, props to GS for sponsoring some non SB sports such as Swimming and Diving and Rifle I believe as well. S&D was part of the GS lineup even in the SoCon days.

If you like I will send you or post the link to the spreadsheet for SoCon Cups from 1969 to at least when App and GS left the SoCon. You can verify some of my comments.

Good luck on the sports you do sponsor and especially the one's that don't complete with App!


Oh I realize that 95% we weren't even close and the women's were bad more often than not. Again that had to do with a lot of coaching turnover. Just as soon as a coach would start winning they would be off to greener pastures. The point was that even when (in men's sports mostly) we actually did very well (like winning 4 or 5 championships) GS would still be near the bottom. So GS fans just take each sport individually and focus on a select few. Currently our S&D are doing really well and is Rifle (both women's sports). IF we win a championship in a non-revenue we give a thumbs up and post congrats, but that's about it. Volleyball and Women's Basketball seem (I haven't looked at recent records, just observations from postings) to be improving and we added women's golf last year.

The main point is that without Men's T&F we will never win a Bubas Cup. Ever. Too much emphasis is put in that area to overcome.
Pfft, we don't have a football team and still have finished top 3 every year we've been here (not to take away from UTA doing the same without an actual football team, no soccer teams or women's golf)

I may be remembering this wrong, but isn't there a lot of points for all the different events in the T&F sports? I thought you could get 20+ pts alone in men's T&F through the cross country, 100M, relay, etc... It wasn't just lumped into one sport, but separated out. Also, is women's golf sponsored by the SBC? I just don't think we offer enough sports in the SBC that count for the most points. Now some don't offer football and miss out on 12 (soon to be 10pts), Men's soccer only gives 6pts so it is half of most of the other sports offered. Again this is something that App (who offered every sport in the SOCON and probably the SBC plus more) has a built in advantage. So until GS offers T&F we will never compete for this cup and even if we did most GS fans wouldn't care. We are pretty much have one sport and then a backup during the off season.
You get points per event that adds up to determine what place the whole team finishes in (in a meet or tournament) but the max points for T&F and Xcountry (for the cup) are by how many teams participate; just like every other sport.
MXC, MITF, MOTF and then WXC, WITF, and WOTF do make for six of the 18 SB sports. No question the Bubas Cup is heavy on the running and jumping side of things, but that is true for most every conference since most every conference will sponsor all of the 6 sports.

The runners that run the longer distances that are part of XC and then the distance events in ITF and OTF do make up a disproportionate part of the Bubas you could argue. All the more reason to have those teams. The scholarships can be used across all three sports.
12-14-2017 06:51 PM
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CatMom Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
GS has women's so they're down 3 sports. UTA is down 4 (but added WGolf, I think, starting this year) while the rest of us are down 2. App is the only school with every sport.
12-14-2017 07:31 PM
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Post: #27
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
(12-14-2017 07:31 PM)CatMom Wrote:  GS has women's so they're down 3 sports. UTA is down 4 (but added WGolf, I think, starting this year) while the rest of us are down 2. App is the only school with every sport.

If you move over to my thread where I post point values about every week I have a lot more stats one can look at. One is unity points, which makes every sport have equal value, from MSOC with 6 points to the winner to the nine sports with 12 points. One of my stats is average unity points per sport sponsored by a school that is a SB sport. That factors out the size of the sport AND factors out the number of sports sponsored.

Something I will add is determining the number of actual Bubas Cup points possible for each school and dividing by the points earned and then convert to a percentage. That would also have the effect of dealing with the sports missing schools (hurts the winner) AND schools missing sports (hurts the school trying to earn Bubas Cup points.)

I will add this one thought, there is something to be said for a school sponsoring all the sports. They are having to fund more sports and may get spread too thin. Not only does App sponsor all 18 SB sports but also two non-SB sports. Some other schools do the same. There is a reason there are minimum sport counts that must be followed, and enforced much more strict than FB attendance from what I can tell, by the NCAA. I think FBS schools have to sponsor 14 sports and the rest of DI have to sponsor 12 sports. It may be 12 for all subdivisions of DI but there is a minimum. GaSo added rifle to either get to the minimum number of FBS sports or to come into compliance with Title IX given the added FB scholarships with FBS football. The logic of this rule by the NCAA is to keep a school from dominating two or three sports by only funding the top two or three revenue sports, which would put those schools at an unfair advantage in those two or three sports.
12-15-2017 06:54 AM
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trueeagle98 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
(12-15-2017 06:54 AM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(12-14-2017 07:31 PM)CatMom Wrote:  GS has women's so they're down 3 sports. UTA is down 4 (but added WGolf, I think, starting this year) while the rest of us are down 2. App is the only school with every sport.

If you move over to my thread where I post point values about every week I have a lot more stats one can look at. One is unity points, which makes every sport have equal value, from MSOC with 6 points to the winner to the nine sports with 12 points. One of my stats is average unity points per sport sponsored by a school that is a SB sport. That factors out the size of the sport AND factors out the number of sports sponsored.

Something I will add is determining the number of actual Bubas Cup points possible for each school and dividing by the points earned and then convert to a percentage. That would also have the effect of dealing with the sports missing schools (hurts the winner) AND schools missing sports (hurts the school trying to earn Bubas Cup points.)

I will add this one thought, there is something to be said for a school sponsoring all the sports. They are having to fund more sports and may get spread too thin. Not only does App sponsor all 18 SB sports but also two non-SB sports. Some other schools do the same. There is a reason there are minimum sport counts that must be followed, and enforced much more strict than FB attendance from what I can tell, by the NCAA. I think FBS schools have to sponsor 14 sports and the rest of DI have to sponsor 12 sports. It may be 12 for all subdivisions of DI but there is a minimum. GaSo added rifle to either get to the minimum number of FBS sports or to come into compliance with Title IX given the added FB scholarships with FBS football. The logic of this rule by the NCAA is to keep a school from dominating two or three sports by only funding the top two or three revenue sports, which would put those schools at an unfair advantage in those two or three sports.


GS added Women's golf and rifle to meet Title IX requirements. They were the cheapest options (we could probably add women's field hockey if needed) since we already had the golf facilities and were getting the shooting range paid for with government funding. How many points are awarded for the 3 track and field GS doesn't sponsor? Are they 10-12 points each? cause that's at least 3 points right there if we came in last. but lets say we are average or above and would add 15-20 points to the score. Again not saying we would win the Bubas Cup even if we did sponsor all sports, just that it is all but mathematically impossible for GS to win ever (or even place in the top 3). Good luck to all other teams. GS will focus on the big 1 and handful of other sports. 04-cheers

also, isnt' there bonus points for winning the conference tourny? Anyway, GS has done pretty good in several other sports and will have a solid athletic program for the foreseeable future. Time to watch GS the SBC in basketball, wait... WHAT??!
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2017 08:58 AM by trueeagle98.)
12-15-2017 08:55 AM
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Post: #29
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
Men's Xcountry - 10
Men's Indoor T&F - 8
Men's Outdoor T&F - 10
Not sure why 2 teams have outdoor, but not indoor T&F. Is that accurate?

NO
Men's Xcountry - GS, GSU
Men's Indoor T&F - GS, GSU, CCU, Troy
Men's Outdoor T&F - GS, GSU
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2017 09:42 AM by CatMom.)
12-15-2017 09:39 AM
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Post: #30
RE: 2017-2018 Bubas Cup standings - Completed Sports
(12-15-2017 09:39 AM)CatMom Wrote:  Men's Xcountry - 10
Men's Indoor T&F - 8
Men's Outdoor T&F - 10
Not sure why 2 teams have outdoor, but not indoor T&F. Is that accurate?

NO
Men's Xcountry - GS, GSU
Men's Indoor T&F - GS, GSU, CCU, Troy
Men's Outdoor T&F - GS, GSU
That is correct unless something changes this year. I think some of these schools fund some of the sports, such as T&F, with very little so the T&F may be barely more than a shell that really has no chance of winning the conference championship. On paper they are sponsoring X number of sports, but in reality it is more like X-0.5 sports.

I also wonder why some compete in OTF and not ITF and I guess the budget does not allow enough travel. It does seem odd. Same students generally so i boggles my mind as well.
12-15-2017 12:09 PM
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