(10-16-2017 04:20 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Let it be known that giving people more consumer choice in their level of coverage is now... "Sabotage"

(10-16-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A couple of other things. The right has spent the last 30 years cutting govt. to the bone and then with the other hand points a finger and says.... look I told you it doesn't work. Take for instance weather models. The Europeans weather model kicks absolute ass compared to our weather models. They absolutely nailed the hurricane tracks in September. Today a major Physics announcement was made in Europe on gravitational waves. These are the things we used to do. Why are the Europeans jumping in front of us. Because we have convinced people that we need to give tax breaks to "job creators" at the expense of govt. I can show you by cutting govt. we are falling behind. Can anybody show me where tax cuts have led to job creations?

You guys create these scenarios in your minds and they are unhinged from reality.

1. Obamacare was not imploding. Trump's sabotage has that potential.

2. People who fund govts actually have better govts. Who would have thunk that?

3. The tax cuts are a gigantic give away to the Kochs and their ilk and will explode the budget. This from the "budget hawk" caucus.

Trump is sabotaging the doctors, hospitals, clinics and pharmacies who refuse to take certain health insurance companies. The problem of the lack of competition is not Obamacare or Trumpcare. It is the Insurance Companies themselves that are hurting themselves by not paying, and then be taken to court and had to settle those lawsuits. Many insurance companies have been banned by the group I spoke about here in Arkansas. Blue Cross/Blue Shields is doing great business, and the out of pocket costs are cheaper than it is in other states. I think the Arkansas laws combining with Obamacare helped keep the system stabilized in this state. What Trump did is upsetting this state that have been worked by a bipartisan work from both parties to neutralize the system. All it takes is states work together with using Obamacare as a guideline to make it work. Sadly, the bickering by political parties from large states like California, Washington, Texas, Florida and New York is not helping the industry at all. Lets get Susan Collins, McCorsky (Alaska), Alexander, Patty Murphy, Bernie Sanders and some others to work on a solution. Lets keep Paul Ryan, Ted Cruz, McConnell, Rand Paul, Pelosi, Schumer and some others trouble makers from working on the bill. Both Ryan and McConnell blocked any Democrats from working on the solutions, and you could see that McConnell and Ryan is a problem for Trump. It is the same thing that what happened to Obama have spilled over to stopping Trump. Did not helped Trump adding Price who was a corrupt doctor to begin with to have a solution. He was in it for the money and not for the health care of the average voters.

(10-17-2017 03:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 04:20 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Let it be known that giving people more consumer choice in their level of coverage is now... "Sabotage"

(10-16-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A couple of other things. The right has spent the last 30 years cutting govt. to the bone and then with the other hand points a finger and says.... look I told you it doesn't work. Take for instance weather models. The Europeans weather model kicks absolute ass compared to our weather models. They absolutely nailed the hurricane tracks in September. Today a major Physics announcement was made in Europe on gravitational waves. These are the things we used to do. Why are the Europeans jumping in front of us. Because we have convinced people that we need to give tax breaks to "job creators" at the expense of govt. I can show you by cutting govt. we are falling behind. Can anybody show me where tax cuts have led to job creations?

You guys create these scenarios in your minds and they are unhinged from reality.

1. Obamacare was not imploding. Trump's sabotage has that potential.

2. People who fund govts actually have better govts. Who would have thunk that?

3. The tax cuts are a gigantic give away to the Kochs and their ilk and will explode the budget. This from the "budget hawk" caucus.

Trump is sabotaging the doctors, hospitals, clinics and pharmacies who refuse to take certain health insurance companies.

This could be because we did away of the idea that one person had the right to force another to work for them... Something about a dustup in the 1860s put that to rest.

(10-16-2017 01:52 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 12:39 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If Obamacare was working, why the illegal payments?

bump

bump for the painful truth

(10-16-2017 05:31 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  If ObamaCare is imploding... (which it is)

Why wait until complete and utter disaster mode to say "well, that didn't work. Now we're in a real bind".

Do we not build bunkers to prevent loss of life from tornadoes? Do we not board windows and save supplies when hurricanes are en route? Do we not send firefighters to put out house fires instead of just waiting for the fire to burn out?

WTF kind of thread is this?

Common sense and practical logic proves the point of this thread is a ridiculous notion at best.

(10-16-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The right has spent the last 30 years cutting govt. to the bone and then with the other hand points a finger and says.... look I told you it doesn't work.

Can anyone provide a list of the government agencies that have a lower budget today than 30 years ago?

(10-16-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A couple of other things. The right has spent the last 30 years cutting govt. to the bone and then with the other hand points a finger and says.... look I told you it doesn't work. Take for instance weather models. The Europeans weather model kicks absolute ass compared to our weather models. They absolutely nailed the hurricane tracks in September. Today a major Physics announcement was made in Europe on gravitational waves. These are the things we used to do. Why are the Europeans jumping in front of us. Because we have convinced people that we need to give tax breaks to "job creators" at the expense of govt. I can show you by cutting govt. we are falling behind. Can anybody show me where tax cuts have led to job creations?
You guys create these scenarios in your minds and they are unhinged from reality.
1. Obamacare was not imploding. Trump's sabotage has that potential.
2. People who fund govts actually have better govts. Who would have thunk that?
3. The tax cuts are a gigantic give away to the Kochs and their ilk and will explode the budget. This from the "budget hawk" caucus.

When the three highest counties in the US for average household income, and 7 of the top 12, are in the D.C. Metro area, nothing has been cut to the bone.

The problem is that our government has become a top heavy bloated organization that encourages bureaucrats to sit on their asses instead of doing things. We have more people in the Pentagon that it took to win WWII, and our navy ships keep hitting merchant ships and we just spent $14 billion on an aircraft carrier whose catapults and arresting gear (the cables that catch airplanes when they land) don't work. Those are just symptomatic of the problems everywhere in the government swamp.

(10-17-2017 09:13 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The right has spent the last 30 years cutting govt. to the bone and then with the other hand points a finger and says.... look I told you it doesn't work.

Can anyone provide a list of the government agencies that have a lower budget today than 30 years ago?

There, I just did

I would like to see this tied to inflation. That would be interesting. I know my Dad made 31,000 thereabouts in the early 80’s. That’s like 73,000 in today’s dollars. I bet you would be surprised if it’s kept up with inflation.

(10-17-2017 11:39 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would like to see this tied to inflation. That would be interesting. I know my Dad made 31,000 thereabouts in the early 80’s. That’s like 73,000 in today’s dollars. I bet you would be surprised if it’s kept up with inflation.

It hasnt. Wages are roughly the same as they were in 1999---and thats before including the effects of inflation. The average household in the US is under pressure and has been for quite some time. Prices have been going up slowly---but wages have not. Thats why consumer debt keeps rising while the savings rate keeps falling.

Given that backdrop, the idea that healthcare rates can shoot up 100% year after year and not adversely affect the number of insured middle class families (who get no subsidy and are not in any way protected against rate increases) is preposterous. Obamcare is an abomination. It is class warefare at its very worse.

(10-17-2017 12:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 11:39 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would like to see this tied to inflation. That would be interesting. I know my Dad made 31,000 thereabouts in the early 80’s. That’s like 73,000 in today’s dollars. I bet you would be surprised if it’s kept up with inflation.

It hasnt. Thats why consumer debt keeps rising while the savings rate keeps falling. Wages are roughly the same as they were in 1999---and thats before including the effects of inflation. The average household in the US is under pressure and has been for quite some time.

So to sway American voters the Dems give us identity politics placating various groups while blasting the largest demographic.

And to keep the American voters on their side the GOP ignores their campaign promises and refuse to legislate.




And they seriously can't figure out why Trump won?

(10-17-2017 12:27 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 12:23 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-17-2017 11:39 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would like to see this tied to inflation. That would be interesting. I know my Dad made 31,000 thereabouts in the early 80’s. That’s like 73,000 in today’s dollars. I bet you would be surprised if it’s kept up with inflation.

It hasnt. Thats why consumer debt keeps rising while the savings rate keeps falling. Wages are roughly the same as they were in 1999---and thats before including the effects of inflation. The average household in the US is under pressure and has been for quite some time.

So to sway American voters the Dems give us identity politics placating various groups while blasting the largest demographic.

And to keep the American voters on their side the GOP ignores their campaign promises and refuse to legislate.




And they seriously can't figure out why Trump won?

Exactly. Whats even more surprising? The Dems have doubled down on that strategy by digging in thier heels and declaring the defeat of Obamacare repeal as a "great victory for the American people". Better yet---not a single proposal in the Democrats call to "fix" Obamacare addresses the middle class thats facing healthcare premiums that now dwarf their mortgage. The Democrats are completely out of touch with middle America. In my entire lifetime---Ive never seen anything like it.

Im calling it now---not only will the Democrats not win either house of congress in the mid-term election-----for the first time in ages, the out of power party will actually LOSE seats in Congress during a mid-term election.

Those subsidies are helping out the people who need it. The working poor. The Trump voter. That’s what you guys don’t get. This is going to back fire spectacularly. The poor already had their gold card. This is going to hurt those that need it the most. The working poor.

(10-17-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Those subsidies are helping out the people who need it. The working poor. The Trump voter. That’s what you guys don’t get. This is going to back fire spectacularly. The poor already had their gold card. This is going to hurt those that need it the most. The working poor.

The only ones who could use it were the ones on Medicare. The rest of the "working poor" couldnt afford the deductible. At some point your going to realize that the Democrats sold you a pig in a poke. The insurance companies are the only one benefiting. Why do think their stock suddenly began falling after rising quickly the last few years? The Middle Class and young working population were screwed. By the way--most of the "working poor" are young. They got shafted almost as bad as the middle class by Obamacare. Most of them dont buy it (mainly because the dont think they will need it) and--even if they think they should buy it----they couldnt afford it anyway (because Obamacare purposely vastly overcharges the young).

Obamacare isnt a healthcare plan. It never was. It was all about politics and money. Overcharge the young (they dont vote and dont donate) and lower rates on the old (because they DO vote and DO donate). Help the insurance companies (who DO donate and fund PACs).

(10-17-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Those subsidies are helping out the people who need it. The working poor. The Trump voter. That’s what you guys don’t get. This is going to back fire spectacularly. The poor already had their gold card. This is going to hurt those that need it the most. The working poor.

Letting people walk into a bank and take whatever they want out of the safe would greatly help them out, too.

But it's illegal. Against the law.


As much as I like this song, I think we have to dub it the Democratic Theme Song...

Tell me why the swamp rats in DC gets a single payer option, and slams it at the same time. it is great for them, but bad for us.

(10-17-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Those subsidies are helping out the people who need it.

But those subsidies arent Obamacare. You wanted obamacare, now you've got Obamacare.

(10-17-2017 12:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Tell me why the swamp rats in DC gets a single payer option, and slams it at the same time. it is great for them, but bad for us.

The are getting healthcare from their employer, like I am...

(10-17-2017 12:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Tell me why the swamp rats in DC gets a single payer option, and slams it at the same time. it is great for them, but bad for us.

They're not, but one thing they are getting are options other companies dont get, plus they are subsidized. That needs to stop so that they can enjoy the real Obamacare like everyone else.

(10-16-2017 05:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 04:55 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 04:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 04:10 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(10-16-2017 03:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I'll take the judge's opinion over yours (or mine), since they are the ones who ultimately decide what is and is not legal. I'll fully admit that until the SCOTUS decides, it's not decided.... but that judge's opinion DOES carry more weight than yours (or mine) and certainly shows that your opinion is not indisputable or without serious (and not chat room) disagreement.

If the government is appealing, why wouldn't Trump just drop the appeal and let the judges opinion stand?

That's the idea. Why waste taxpayer $s fighting for an unconstitutional appropriation of money that he doesn't want to put out there anyway?

The suit is actually the House of Representatives suing the Executive Branch (at the time Obama).

Executive Branch lost and appealed.

Trump was then elected President.

During appeal, some states (NY and CA, and some others) moved to intervene as defendants, so that the Trump executive branch couldnt do a 'walk-away' win. In essence the states asked to be named co-defendants in order to be able to defend the payments. The motion was granted and those states are now co-parties with the Executive Branch.

At this point, the Executive branch *could* drop *their* appeal, but the suit would continue due to the presence of the states being named co-parties.

Easiest move is to EO and stop payments, which would moot the case.

But the states who intervened have said they will now sue in their own capacity to stop Trump's EO that ended the Obama EO-based payments.

I’m curious as to how the Judiciary can compel payments from the treasury that are not authorized by Congress. They no more have that power than the excutive Branch. That’s like the executive branch declaring a law unconstitutional.

Is this any different than...(drum roll please)...DACA? OBlunder issued the order protecting these illegals and now they're demanding, yep, demanding to be protected from deportation.

(10-16-2017 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A couple of other things. The right has spent the last 30 years cutting govt. to the bone and then with the other hand points a finger and says.... look I told you it doesn't work. Take for instance weather models. The Europeans weather model kicks absolute ass compared to our weather models. They absolutely nailed the hurricane tracks in September. Today a major Physics announcement was made in Europe on gravitational waves. These are the things we used to do. Why are the Europeans jumping in front of us. Because we have convinced people that we need to give tax breaks to "job creators" at the expense of govt. I can show you by cutting govt. we are falling behind. Can anybody show me where tax cuts have led to job creations?

You guys create these scenarios in your minds and they are unhinged from reality.

1. Obamacare was not imploding. Trump's sabotage has that potential.

2. People who fund govts actually have better govts. Who would have thunk that?

3. The tax cuts are a gigantic give away to the Kochs and their ilk and will explode the budget. This from the "budget hawk" caucus.

To stop subsidizing Fortune 500 insurance companies is not sabotage.


Case closed. Mods lock this thread.