The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I agree with Bronc33, I don't get the lack of effort that many fans are saying. Lack of effort means not trying hard or quitting and I didn't see any evidence of that. Claiborne ran down the running back on that long run to tackle him inside the five and then made the tackle on the next play. It was an incredible effort to run that guy down.

Anybody that thinks the Broncos didn't show any effort on Saturday should go to practice today and tell Claiborne or Spillane or Chukes or Keenoy or Fayad, etc that they didn't play with any effort to their faces and see what kind of response you get.

Just because they didn't always execute or certain plays failed doesn't automatically mean there was no effort.

The bandwagon seems to be unloading a few riders early on. Biggest obstacle for a previous MAC champion is to be a repeating MAC champion. The MAC teams aren't 2-3 deep like P5 top 25 squads which just reload. I saw alot of 11-1, 10-2 predictions a few weeks ago. Also saw New England would go 19-0. This team has a lot of talent it also has a lot of rookie flavor. Rookies make mistakes as coaches and as players on the field. We don't have a veteran WR but we have some promise out there. Wassink has a great tool to fall on as he gets better, its called the run, if Lester had used it early on against Idaho likely a few more lanes open for the young WRs to run. The right side of the OL stunk, plain and simple. They owe Franklin steak dinners every night this week. Sometimes you just stink. Most coaches will tell you OL is the hardest position to develop, we have kids there who were at HS proms a short while ago. We lost two starters on D at MSU I thought they responded well. A couple long RB runs but we gave up a lot of long RB runs last year also. Idaho got caught with their pants down vs UNLV and punched us in the face for three quarters. Didn't take a brain scientist to figure out we weren't ready Saturday. If I spend half a week in LA then go to MSU my first two games, check my phone Sunday and see Idaho got their arses kicked by a weak Vegas team, well you know human nature of 18-21 year olds.

Watched Wagner play Columbia Saturday. No excuses this week. Wagner would have trouble with GVSU or Ferris St they are small at skilled positions. Their highlight win this year is against a DII school (DII not Subdivision). Don't jump the wagon just yet.

Nice first post, Buick. Agree with pretty much everything.

Nobody is "off the bandwagon".

We're all rooting for WMU's success.

Stop it.

yup...I fell off the bandwagon right after I fell off the turnip truck!

Quote:This team is coming off 13-1 season (trending way up) with a loaded depth chart and tons of returning talent. The effort and preparedness was sketchy at best.

Yeah, but at the same time, it was still going to be a Transition Time, even for PJ & Company if they stayed. 3 Senior WRs + Senior QB -- with other WRs & QB not getting any notable playing time... it's going to be a transition with bumps & bruises starting off. We'd be 1-2 and wouldn't have stomped Idaho either, if the same coaching staff was here.

But yes, we have a lot to be concerned about, and it's not transitioning ideally. Hopefully the 4th Q against Idaho is a wakeup call and jump starts some cohesion in our passing game where the Wagner game lets that flourish -- to prepare us for MAC play.

If we can get the QB+WR set running fine -- we should be alright and have a legit shot at being 8-4 this year (barring injuries not piling up). Do I EXPECT that? Ehhh, not too much. But I do expect us to be at least 7-5, as far as expectations are concerned (again, assuming no injury pile-up).

Going 4-4 in the MAC would be a solid disappointment.

(09-18-2017 09:58 AM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(09-17-2017 09:03 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I keep hearing all these ridiculous comparison's to PJ's first season of 1-11.

Here's the biggest difference and reason for concern:
That was coming off a 4-8 season (trending downwards) with not even a full roster of scholarship players. We had zero depth and only a handful of decent players. The effort and preparedness was there in year one, the talent wasn't.

This team is coming off 13-1 season (trending way up) with a loaded depth chart and tons of returning talent. The effort and preparedness was sketchy at best.

Apples and oranges.

And shame on you if your expectations have plummeted this quickly. By no means do I expect another 13-win season. But we're all intelligent enough to recognize when things don't look good (players unprepared, bad play calling, misuse of talent, etc.)

If you didn't notice this, then I question how much of last year's team you watched. Because there's no comparison. Open your eyes.

I am sure we'll beat Wagner. But I am truly concerned about heading into MAC play. We play like we did on Saturday, and we'll be lucky to be .500

I disagree with your assessment regarding effort and preparedness.

What if I told you we're averaging fewer penalty yards per game than Fleck's first year? We are, by a lot.

What if I told you we're averaging fewer penalty yards per game than last year? We are. That's one sign of a disciplined, well coached team.

Where exactly did you see a lack of effort? Because I saw guys chase down Idaho players from the other side of the field to save touchdowns. I saw our QB run head first into the Idaho defense to get a first down. I saw our players going ALL OUT to recover fumbles on the field. This team does not lack effort, there are just a ton of guys out there with little game experience that are learning what they can do.

It sucks to not see the well oiled machine we saw last year on offense but replacing your entire passing game (and 2 NFL players) takes time. I think we really stepped up on Saturday, much like the team did last year after a bad half of football against Kent State.

Great post

If WMU plays four quarters of the last quarter they just played, LOOK OUT.

If we can continue to grow from each game and show marked improvement we will be fine... We do have enough talent to get us through this learning phase but need to show some serious chops when we get into the meat of the MAC games... right now Toledo and NIU would lay waste to us... scheduling is everything this year.

(09-18-2017 05:13 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  If we can continue to grow from each game and show marked improvement we will be fine... We do have enough talent to get us through this learning phase but need to show some serious chops when we get into the meat of the MAC games... right now Toledo and NIU would lay waste to us... scheduling is everything this year.

"Lay waste to us"

No MAC team will lay waste to us. USC didn't lay waste to us. Even MSU didn't, and we played awful. You operate in a static world, where whatever you see today is what you get tomorrow. What you saw in the first half of the Idaho game didn't manifest in the second half. Teams adapt, players grow.

You can't take a teams worst moment and compare it to another's best moment, otherwise CMU would have run away with the MAC after beating Oklahoma State.

(09-18-2017 06:35 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 05:13 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  If we can continue to grow from each game and show marked improvement we will be fine... We do have enough talent to get us through this learning phase but need to show some serious chops when we get into the meat of the MAC games... right now Toledo and NIU would lay waste to us... scheduling is everything this year.

"Lay waste to us"

No MAC team will lay waste to us. USC didn't lay waste to us. Even MSU didn't, and we played awful. You operate in a static world, where whatever you see today is what you get tomorrow. What you saw in the first half of the Idaho game didn't manifest in the second half. Teams adapt, players grow.

You can't take a teams worst moment and compare it to another's best moment, otherwise CMU would have run away with the MAC after beating Oklahoma State.

Can you please stop it. Lay waste means they will beat us soundly. USC beat us soundly. MSU beat us soundly. Idaho was beating us soundly before we finally woke up. Your narrative is a little overly optimistic if you honestly think that if we pulled Toledo or NIU on the road in the next couple weeks it would be good for us.

(09-18-2017 06:45 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 06:35 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 05:13 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  If we can continue to grow from each game and show marked improvement we will be fine... We do have enough talent to get us through this learning phase but need to show some serious chops when we get into the meat of the MAC games... right now Toledo and NIU would lay waste to us... scheduling is everything this year.

"Lay waste to us"

No MAC team will lay waste to us. USC didn't lay waste to us. Even MSU didn't, and we played awful. You operate in a static world, where whatever you see today is what you get tomorrow. What you saw in the first half of the Idaho game didn't manifest in the second half. Teams adapt, players grow.

You can't take a teams worst moment and compare it to another's best moment, otherwise CMU would have run away with the MAC after beating Oklahoma State.

Can you please stop it. Lay waste means they will beat us soundly. USC beat us soundly. MSU beat us soundly. Idaho was beating us soundly before we finally woke up. Your narrative is a little overly optimistic if you honestly think that if we pulled Toledo or NIU on the road in the next couple weeks it would be good for us.

Nope, not stopping. Ever since your mancrush left you see the glass half empty, and when you're called on it you whine. Change your handle to "Little Brown Flush" or "Gopher in the Zoo." and join a Minni message board. They've totally drank the Kool-Aid, you'll fit right in.

As for UT and NIU, barring a major injury those games are as winnable this year as they were last year. Your stupid "they'll lay waste to us" is what I'd expect from a bandwagon fan who supposedly "rejoined" this board after a long absence. ??

(09-18-2017 07:30 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 06:45 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 06:35 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 05:13 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  If we can continue to grow from each game and show marked improvement we will be fine... We do have enough talent to get us through this learning phase but need to show some serious chops when we get into the meat of the MAC games... right now Toledo and NIU would lay waste to us... scheduling is everything this year.

"Lay waste to us"

No MAC team will lay waste to us. USC didn't lay waste to us. Even MSU didn't, and we played awful. You operate in a static world, where whatever you see today is what you get tomorrow. What you saw in the first half of the Idaho game didn't manifest in the second half. Teams adapt, players grow.

You can't take a teams worst moment and compare it to another's best moment, otherwise CMU would have run away with the MAC after beating Oklahoma State.

Can you please stop it. Lay waste means they will beat us soundly. USC beat us soundly. MSU beat us soundly. Idaho was beating us soundly before we finally woke up. Your narrative is a little overly optimistic if you honestly think that if we pulled Toledo or NIU on the road in the next couple weeks it would be good for us.

Nope, not stopping. Ever since your mancrush left you see the glass half empty, and when you're called on it you whine. Change your handle to "Little Brown Flush" or "Gopher in the Zoo." and join a Minni message board. They've totally drank the Kool-Aid, you'll fit right in.

Pot, meet kettle!

Reality just escapes dip... I worry about his mental state.

I feel good about our future but to think right now we are a well oiled machine is just asinine. We will get there...just need some patience.

Quote:USC beat us soundly. MSU beat us soundly. Idaho was beating us soundly before we finally woke up.

USC was not beating us soundly until we tired out late in the 4th. But yes, MSU beat us soundly, and Idaho was until we woke up, yes.

Quote:I feel good about our future but to think right now we are a well oiled machine is just asinine.

I agree. If we played the way we did 4th quarter against Idaho all quarters, coming right out of the gate 'till the end, after the MSU egg-dropping, then I would say there's an argument that we're pretty much as well-oiled as we should be with new QB+WRs+Coaches. But that's not the case right now. Wagner game will be a game where we'll see if it'll help us start jelling better and be on-track... because we'll lose to Ball State if we show up like we did against Idaho. We have better potential, even at this point.

Hopefully this adjustment period hit another gear starting in the 2nd half against IdaHO!

(09-18-2017 08:04 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Reality just escapes dip... I worry about his mental state.

I feel good about our future but to think right now we are a well oiled machine is just asinine. We will get there...just need some patience.

I admire how you keep your IDs straight. "Wait, am I Bandboy, Hoek, Pez, or Flush?

(09-17-2017 09:03 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  I keep hearing all these ridiculous comparison's to PJ's first season of 1-11.

Here's the biggest difference and reason for concern:
That was coming off a 4-8 season (trending downwards) with not even a full roster of scholarship players. We had zero depth and only a handful of decent players. The effort and preparedness was there in year one, the talent wasn't.

This team is coming off 13-1 season (trending way up) with a loaded depth chart and tons of returning talent. The effort and preparedness was sketchy at best.

Apples and oranges.

And shame on you if your expectations have plummeted this quickly. By no means do I expect another 13-win season. But we're all intelligent enough to recognize when things don't look good (players unprepared, bad play calling, misuse of talent, etc.)

If you didn't notice this, then I question how much of last year's team you watched. Because there's no comparison. Open your eyes.

I am sure we'll beat Wagner. But I am truly concerned about heading into MAC play. We play like we did on Saturday, and we'll be lucky to be .500

I mean, seriously, who could’ve seen this coming?

And this was before the injuries started mounting.

Sidenote: As of today, Idaho is 3-7.

(09-16-2017 07:18 PM)wmutkelaw Wrote:  Suck it

And next year when we return the Oline, the full depth of RBs, WRs, QBs with experience, a kicker with experience, an excellent stable of LBers, DTs. experience on the backend, and some impressive recruits..........Nothing will change? Woodside, Swanson, Robach, gone, CMU loses 13 starters and has little depth. But nothing will be different???

NIU will return a lot, but hell, we almost beat them on the road with a bunch of first year guys at the skill position. Barring 22 injuries Western should be favored with NIU and UT, with no one having a clear edge. I think the East will be the strong side of the MAC.

Stop living in some fantasy world where 2016 will repeat itself. Get a year with a favorable schedule, top heavy with upperclassmen, and a bunch of 3 win MAC teams and 11-2 might happen. With the MWC, and the AAC the deck will always be stacked against the MAC. Houston, Temple, Cinci, Memphis and Central FL have access to waaay better talent than the MAC. That’s not changing.

Really hope you’re right CD.

Toledo always seems to reload regardless. NIU will still be tough but very beatable.

With everyone we’re bringing back, there’s no reason we can’t win the West.

(11-24-2017 10:35 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Really hope you’re right CD.

Toledo always seems to reload regardless. NIU will still be tough but very beatable.

With everyone we’re bringing back, there’s no reason we can’t win the West.

Yes, Toledo reloads so often it’s been since 2003 that they’ve won the MAC West. What they do well is stay in the hunt into November.

If we’re not playing for the MAC West next year I’ll call for Lester’s head.........barring 22 injuries.