I'm figure you are all aware about the Youngstown/Pelini rape controversy.

I have an honest question on this, mainly to liberals. I have no sympathy for someone who commits sexual assault. But it does bring up questions of rehabilitation and second chances and such.

Liberals are generally in favor of parole, rehabilitation, education, second chances and such in relation to criminals. Often taking a very sympathetic position generally.

Liberals are often of a mind to even restore felons voting rights after they serve their time.

But in non-general cases like this liberals seem to want this individual hung up by his heels and excluded from society permanently.

Those positions seem to be at odds with one another. How can you logically be for restoring voting rights and allowing them to help select our leaders...but be outraged that he might play in a football game?

Conservatives would generally be against his rights restored...and against him playing football. Which seems much more consistent.

For Liberals, what is the rationale?

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(09-15-2017 09:41 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'm figure you are all aware about the Youngstown/Pelini rape controversy.

I have an honest question on this, mainly to liberals. I have no sympathy for someone who commits sexual assault. But it does bring up questions of rehabilitation and second chances and such.

Liberals are generally in favor of parole, rehabilitation, education, second chances and such in relation to criminals. Often taking a very sympathetic position generally.

Liberals are often of a mind to even restore felons voting rights after they serve their time.

But in non-general cases like this liberals seem to want this individual hung up by his heels and excluded from society permanently.

Those positions seem to be at odds with one another. How can you logically be for restoring voting rights and allowing them to help select our leaders...but be outraged that he might play in a football game?

Conservatives would generally be against his rights restored...and against him playing football. Which seems much more consistent.

For Liberals, what is the rationale?

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Just like Mays going to Hocking College and now Central State, Ohio, it brought controversy. There was a rape case at Hocking College involving some football players in their first season.
Now to the point that you ask? Once people who gets convicted of rape, sometimes repeat the same crimes. With what is going on the campuses these days? Campuses must be a safe place from sexual predator perps. It would be best that these guys just go away and stay out of the lime light. One bad move, you will get piled on like Winston at Florida State.

(09-15-2017 10:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 09:41 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'm figure you are all aware about the Youngstown/Pelini rape controversy.

I have an honest question on this, mainly to liberals. I have no sympathy for someone who commits sexual assault. But it does bring up questions of rehabilitation and second chances and such.

Liberals are generally in favor of parole, rehabilitation, education, second chances and such in relation to criminals. Often taking a very sympathetic position generally.

Liberals are often of a mind to even restore felons voting rights after they serve their time.

But in non-general cases like this liberals seem to want this individual hung up by his heels and excluded from society permanently.

Those positions seem to be at odds with one another. How can you logically be for restoring voting rights and allowing them to help select our leaders...but be outraged that he might play in a football game?

Conservatives would generally be against his rights restored...and against him playing football. Which seems much more consistent.

For Liberals, what is the rationale?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Just like Mays going to Hocking College and now Central State, Ohio, it brought controversy. There was a rape case at Hocking College involving some football players in their first season.
Now to the point that you ask? Once people who gets convicted of rape, sometimes repeat the same crimes. With what is going on the campuses these days? Campuses must be a safe place from sexual predator perps. It would be best that these guys just go away and stay out of the lime light. One bad move, you will get piled on like Winston at Florida State.

But you didn't reply to the seeming inconsistency.

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(09-15-2017 10:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 09:41 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'm figure you are all aware about the Youngstown/Pelini rape controversy.
I have an honest question on this, mainly to liberals. I have no sympathy for someone who commits sexual assault. But it does bring up questions of rehabilitation and second chances and such.
Liberals are generally in favor of parole, rehabilitation, education, second chances and such in relation to criminals. Often taking a very sympathetic position generally.
Liberals are often of a mind to even restore felons voting rights after they serve their time.
But in non-general cases like this liberals seem to want this individual hung up by his heels and excluded from society permanently.
Those positions seem to be at odds with one another. How can you logically be for restoring voting rights and allowing them to help select our leaders...but be outraged that he might play in a football game?
Conservatives would generally be against his rights restored...and against him playing football. Which seems much more consistent.
For Liberals, what is the rationale?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Just like Mays going to Hocking College and now Central State, Ohio, it brought controversy. There was a rape case at Hocking College involving some football players in their first season.
Now to the point that you ask? Once people who gets convicted of rape, sometimes repeat the same crimes. With what is going on the campuses these days? Campuses must be a safe place from sexual predator perps. It would be best that these guys just go away and stay out of the lime light. One bad move, you will get piled on like Winston at Florida State.

So, do you have an answer for the question asked?

(09-15-2017 09:41 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'm figure you are all aware about the Youngstown/Pelini rape controversy.

I have an honest question on this, mainly to liberals. I have no sympathy for someone who commits sexual assault. But it does bring up questions of rehabilitation and second chances and such.

Liberals are generally in favor of parole, rehabilitation, education, second chances and such in relation to criminals. Often taking a very sympathetic position generally.

Liberals are often of a mind to even restore felons voting rights after they serve their time.

But in non-general cases like this liberals seem to want this individual hung up by his heels and excluded from society permanently.

Those positions seem to be at odds with one another. How can you logically be for restoring voting rights and allowing them to help select our leaders...but be outraged that he might play in a football game?

Conservatives would generally be against his rights restored...and against him playing football. Which seems much more consistent.

For Liberals, what is the rationale?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

If I recall correctly the guys in this matter had very light sentences, I think that was the issue. Did YSU refuse to allow one guy to play football there?

I'm not aware of this case until now to be honest, but in general, posts like this that make broad characterizations are a losing cause. There was another thread a month ago that began with something like 'honest question to all liberals' and then proceeded to do the same thing - sweep all opinions into one giant, convenient category.

Not all liberals are for 'safe spaces' or rehabbing every criminal. Just like all conservatives aren't for a wall between Mexico and the U.S., or a total Muslim travel ban. I can make the same sweeping pointed question - why aren't all conservatives for a total ban of athletics? After all, the percentage of athletes involved in sexual assault/rape cases is probably about the same percentage as the Mexican rapists entering the country illegally or the percentage of Muslim terrorists entering the U.S. If you're for the latter two bans, you need to be in favor of getting rid of all levels of football and men's basketball.

For the record, I'm in favor of reviewing cases on a case by case basis. And I would have voted to give the death penalty to Penn State and Baylor football if I had that power, for a lack of institutional control.

(09-15-2017 09:41 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'm figure you are all aware about the Youngstown/Pelini rape controversy.

I have an honest question on this, mainly to liberals. I have no sympathy for someone who commits sexual assault. But it does bring up questions of rehabilitation and second chances and such.

Liberals are generally in favor of parole, rehabilitation, education, second chances and such in relation to criminals. Often taking a very sympathetic position generally.

Liberals are often of a mind to even restore felons voting rights after they serve their time.

But in non-general cases like this liberals seem to want this individual hung up by his heels and excluded from society permanently.

Those positions seem to be at odds with one another. How can you logically be for restoring voting rights and allowing them to help select our leaders...but be outraged that he might play in a football game?

Conservatives would generally be against his rights restored...and against him playing football. Which seems much more consistent.

For Liberals, what is the rationale?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Everyone is capable of rehabilitation no matter how heinous a crime you have committed, unless they commit crimes that are or at least perceived to be racist and/or sexist in nature, in which case you deserve to be a homeless pariah.

That's what I've learned from reading liberal blogs, comment sections, and message boards

It's not the crime committed that makes it possible for one to be rehabilitated it's why one did it and their level of contrition.

Some people are just ******.

It takes a ****** kind of person to commit a sexual assault.

****** people don't get rehabilitated they merely get punished and released.

I am familiar with the Stuebenville high school rape case being in Ohio.

If people are outraged at this felon being given a second chance, it is due to the brutal, heinous nature of what these scumbags did to a girl from their high school. It was evil and depraved.

They got her drunk, drugged her until she lost consciousness and then dragged her around to a few different houses, with guys raping and molesting her as they partied. They took pictures of their conquest! What person with any conscience ever thinks of doing something like that?

It was depraved. It was evil. That animal should not be free, much less playing football on a scholarship.

(09-16-2017 10:06 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I am familiar with the Stuebenville high school rape case being in Ohio.

If people are outraged at this felon being given a second chance, it is due to the brutal, heinous nature of what these scumbags did to a girl from their high school. It was evil and depraved.

They got her drunk, drugged her until she lost consciousness and then dragged her around to a few different houses, with guys raping and molesting her as they partied. They took pictures of their conquest! What person with any conscience ever thinks of doing something like that?

It was depraved. It was evil. That animal should not be free, much less playing football on a scholarship.

Actually, it is an honest question. I don't really know my own rational opinion on this. My immediate reaction is to exile sexual assault perpetrators, but that is more emotional maybe.

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(09-16-2017 05:30 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 09:41 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  I'm figure you are all aware about the Youngstown/Pelini rape controversy.

I have an honest question on this, mainly to liberals. I have no sympathy for someone who commits sexual assault. But it does bring up questions of rehabilitation and second chances and such.

Liberals are generally in favor of parole, rehabilitation, education, second chances and such in relation to criminals. Often taking a very sympathetic position generally.

Liberals are often of a mind to even restore felons voting rights after they serve their time.

But in non-general cases like this liberals seem to want this individual hung up by his heels and excluded from society permanently.

Those positions seem to be at odds with one another. How can you logically be for restoring voting rights and allowing them to help select our leaders...but be outraged that he might play in a football game?

Conservatives would generally be against his rights restored...and against him playing football. Which seems much more consistent.

For Liberals, what is the rationale?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

If I recall correctly the guys in this matter had very light sentences, I think that was the issue. Did YSU refuse to allow one guy to play football there?

I can see that being a factor.

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(09-16-2017 10:06 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I am familiar with the Stuebenville high school rape case being in Ohio.

If people are outraged at this felon being given a second chance, it is due to the brutal, heinous nature of what these scumbags did to a girl from their high school. It was evil and depraved.

They got her drunk, drugged her until she lost consciousness and then dragged her around to a few different houses, with guys raping and molesting her as they partied. They took pictures of their conquest! What person with any conscience ever thinks of doing something like that?

It was depraved. It was evil. That animal should not be free, much less playing football on a scholarship.

That is on the judge. His time and punishment was too lenient, but he served it. Now he has a 2nd chance. We'll see what happens.

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(09-16-2017 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 10:06 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I am familiar with the Stuebenville high school rape case being in Ohio.

If people are outraged at this felon being given a second chance, it is due to the brutal, heinous nature of what these scumbags did to a girl from their high school. It was evil and depraved.

They got her drunk, drugged her until she lost consciousness and then dragged her around to a few different houses, with guys raping and molesting her as they partied. They took pictures of their conquest! What person with any conscience ever thinks of doing something like that?

It was depraved. It was evil. That animal should not be free, much less playing football on a scholarship.

That is on the judge. His time and punishment was too lenient, but he served it. Now he has a 2nd chance. We'll see what happens.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Agreed, there was also issues/delays with the investigation from the Sheriff's office.

Steubenville is an economically depressed town, in an economically depressed county. The high school football program there is what all the residents cling too
. It's sort of like the program in Friday Night Lights/All the Right Moves where you have 50 year old men walking around wearing their high school letter jacket. The whole community is at the Football game on Friday Nights and indiscretions are overlooked as locally the program is "too big to fail".

Note: I have family in the area so I am intimately aware of the institution.

There are no safe spaces. We have laws. End of story.

(09-16-2017 03:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 10:06 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I am familiar with the Stuebenville high school rape case being in Ohio.

If people are outraged at this felon being given a second chance, it is due to the brutal, heinous nature of what these scumbags did to a girl from their high school. It was evil and depraved.

They got her drunk, drugged her until she lost consciousness and then dragged her around to a few different houses, with guys raping and molesting her as they partied. They took pictures of their conquest! What person with any conscience ever thinks of doing something like that?

It was depraved. It was evil. That animal should not be free, much less playing football on a scholarship.

That is on the judge. His time and punishment was too lenient, but he served it. Now he has a 2nd chance. We'll see what happens.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Agreed, there was also issues/delays with the investigation from the Sheriff's office.

Steubenville is an economically depressed town, in an economically depressed county. The high school football program there is what all the residents cling too
. It's sort of like the program in Friday Night Lights/All the Right Moves where you have 50 year old men walking around wearing their high school letter jacket. The whole community is at the Football game on Friday Nights and indiscretions are overlooked as locally the program is "too big to fail".

Note: I have family in the area so I am intimately aware of the institution.

I believe there was also obstruction on the part of adults involved in concealing and covering for the football team. I don't care how depressed Steubenville is what happened there wasn't depressed it was depraved.

There are no viable excuses for the adults or young adults involved.
Shameful.

(09-16-2017 03:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 03:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 10:06 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I am familiar with the Stuebenville high school rape case being in Ohio.

If people are outraged at this felon being given a second chance, it is due to the brutal, heinous nature of what these scumbags did to a girl from their high school. It was evil and depraved.

They got her drunk, drugged her until she lost consciousness and then dragged her around to a few different houses, with guys raping and molesting her as they partied. They took pictures of their conquest! What person with any conscience ever thinks of doing something like that?

It was depraved. It was evil. That animal should not be free, much less playing football on a scholarship.

That is on the judge. His time and punishment was too lenient, but he served it. Now he has a 2nd chance. We'll see what happens.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Agreed, there was also issues/delays with the investigation from the Sheriff's office.

Steubenville is an economically depressed town, in an economically depressed county. The high school football program there is what all the residents cling too
. It's sort of like the program in Friday Night Lights/All the Right Moves where you have 50 year old men walking around wearing their high school letter jacket. The whole community is at the Football game on Friday Nights and indiscretions are overlooked as locally the program is "too big to fail".

Note: I have family in the area so I am intimately aware of the institution.

I believe there was also obstruction on the part of adults involved in concealing and covering for the football team. I don't care how depressed Steubenville is what happened there wasn't depressed it was depraved.

There are no viable excuses for the adults or young adults involved.
Shameful.

And the victim was bullied like she was at fault.

(09-17-2017 02:13 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 03:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 03:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 10:06 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I am familiar with the Stuebenville high school rape case being in Ohio.

If people are outraged at this felon being given a second chance, it is due to the brutal, heinous nature of what these scumbags did to a girl from their high school. It was evil and depraved.

They got her drunk, drugged her until she lost consciousness and then dragged her around to a few different houses, with guys raping and molesting her as they partied. They took pictures of their conquest! What person with any conscience ever thinks of doing something like that?

It was depraved. It was evil. That animal should not be free, much less playing football on a scholarship.

That is on the judge. His time and punishment was too lenient, but he served it. Now he has a 2nd chance. We'll see what happens.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Agreed, there was also issues/delays with the investigation from the Sheriff's office.

Steubenville is an economically depressed town, in an economically depressed county. The high school football program there is what all the residents cling too
. It's sort of like the program in Friday Night Lights/All the Right Moves where you have 50 year old men walking around wearing their high school letter jacket. The whole community is at the Football game on Friday Nights and indiscretions are overlooked as locally the program is "too big to fail".

Note: I have family in the area so I am intimately aware of the institution.

I believe there was also obstruction on the part of adults involved in concealing and covering for the football team. I don't care how depressed Steubenville is what happened there wasn't depressed it was depraved.

There are no viable excuses for the adults or young adults involved.
Shameful.

And the victim was bullied like she was at fault.

Here's a question...are people piling the sins of some people in the town, onto the perp?

Is there more outrage toward this perp than for other similar perps because other people tried to hide/minimize the crime?



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(09-16-2017 11:49 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 10:06 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  I am familiar with the Stuebenville high school rape case being in Ohio.

If people are outraged at this felon being given a second chance, it is due to the brutal, heinous nature of what these scumbags did to a girl from their high school. It was evil and depraved.

They got her drunk, drugged her until she lost consciousness and then dragged her around to a few different houses, with guys raping and molesting her as they partied. They took pictures of their conquest! What person with any conscience ever thinks of doing something like that?

It was depraved. It was evil. That animal should not be free, much less playing football on a scholarship.

Actually, it is an honest question. I don't really know my own rational opinion on this. My immediate reaction is to exile sexual assault perpetrators, but that is more emotional maybe.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Can we send them to Mejico?

(09-18-2017 02:03 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(09-17-2017 02:13 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 03:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 03:22 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-16-2017 01:36 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  That is on the judge. His time and punishment was too lenient, but he served it. Now he has a 2nd chance. We'll see what happens.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Agreed, there was also issues/delays with the investigation from the Sheriff's office.

Steubenville is an economically depressed town, in an economically depressed county. The high school football program there is what all the residents cling too
. It's sort of like the program in Friday Night Lights/All the Right Moves where you have 50 year old men walking around wearing their high school letter jacket. The whole community is at the Football game on Friday Nights and indiscretions are overlooked as locally the program is "too big to fail".

Note: I have family in the area so I am intimately aware of the institution.

I believe there was also obstruction on the part of adults involved in concealing and covering for the football team. I don't care how depressed Steubenville is what happened there wasn't depressed it was depraved.

There are no viable excuses for the adults or young adults involved.
Shameful.

And the victim was bullied like she was at fault.

Here's a question...are people piling the sins of some people in the town, onto the perp?

Is there more outrage toward this perp than for other similar perps because other people tried to hide/minimize the crime?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It is like the majority of the town blamed the victim for her being a slot than what the perps did. People want to hide the crime to protect their star players. That is the case everywhere like in Montana, at Baylor and so forth. Just disgusting on how people do these things to the victims.

I wouldn't have him play for me. I don't think he should get a scholarship. But if an FCS or Division II school wants to let him walk on, that's their decision. Couple of really disturbing things in this situation.

1) A judge is determining whether he can play.
2) He got withheld by a petition, i.e. mob rule.