(09-15-2017 11:05 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 11:01 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:59 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:56 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Protestors are now on Olive street, and heading in the direction of the police station... so now is when it gets 'worrisome'. So far the cops have kept the protestors off I-64 and I-40.

Hey, maybe you can help me out. Driving up Sunday morning. Anything you think I need to be aware of?

The concert is at Scottrade center. We were planning to visit City Museum and the Arch during the day.

To be honest right now, UM.. as long as things don't get out of hand by early tonight (it was one reason the verdict was given out this time of the morning), I'm gonna say you're going to be fine, and so far the cops are doing a good job of keeping protestors off 55, 64 and 40..

If things get messy before end of tonight, then I honestly don't know.

Thx. What's a good local news station to follow online for info?

Honestly, I don't trust any of them.. but I'd say probably (some of tehse I'm guessing on how good they're online coverage is, since a lot of news web-apps are blocked).

Fox2: http://fox2now.com

Mostly I've been watching the post dispatch twitter listing:

St.Louis Today

But not sure how well they're covering the area.

KMOV's overhead coverage

(09-15-2017 11:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  

Quote:In 2011, Stockley and his partner saw what they thought was a drug deal going down... so they pulled up.. Smith TOOK off in the car at about 80mph on the streets.

They caught up to him.. rammed the car (the cop was caught on video saying "I'm going to kill that MF".. although he said it was in the heat of the moment).

Claimed as he approached the car, Smith reached over to pull a gun from the other seat, and Stockley put 5 shots in him at very close range..

He went back to his car to get "Quick clot" for bleeding purposes, and then came back to the car, didnt' use it, and then reached into the vehicle to pull out the gun, which didn't have any of Smith's DNA on it after checking only Officer Stockley.

So the prosecution said that the gun was planted by Stockley (grabbed when he went back to the car), and then planted in the car on the return trip, and while both officers say they saw Smith go for the gun in the car, of the protestors are saying Stockley had to plant the gun as well, and that it was just a "white cop shoots black victim".

Hell, when it first came out, I'll admit I thought Stockley's argument was weak, but video cam and body cams couldn't prove guilt.

You exemplify the problem. The prosecution claimed the gun was planted, not the defense. Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around (not that you are saying or presuming guilt, but your choice of language does). Sounds like plenty of reasonable doubt. Really probable doubt based simply on what you posted above.

Bullet, sorry I was referring to the reason he went back to the car the for the Blood clot stuff after the shooting (that's where I was referring to the weak argument.. as it just didn't make sense to me) not to whether or not he was innocent or guilty.

OOPS: Just realized where I wrote defense claim the gun was planted... trying to find notes about downtown st. l activity while writing stuff... wasn't paying attention, and fixed that

(09-15-2017 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Not suprised. They usually are not guilty. No different here.

You are correct. Cops are usually not found guilty in these cases.

That is why it is so important to not make mistakes because now people are going to go crazy every time it happens.

It's just like terrorism, you have to be right 100% of the time or the terrorists win.

Or you could just obey the police to start with.

(09-15-2017 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Not suprised. They usually are not guilty. No different here.

You are correct. Cops are usually not found guilty in these cases.

For good reason. They usually aren't.

Jesse Bogan @JesseBogan
4m

Protestors tried to get in convention center. Told a few colleagues to stop banging on windows. Called for hugs. #stockleyverdict pic.twitter.com/KSJoNNJYl8

(I'm confused by this one... not sure what the post-dispatch reporter is writing here?)


#Stockley protest crowd has grown to about 75 in downtown St. Louis. Blocking intersection by courthouse after lap of downtown. pic.twitter.com/yZB4xRm7A7 =- — Ryan P. Delaney (@rpatrickdelaney

(09-15-2017 10:25 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:21 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Let's just see what happens in St. Louis this time:

Ex-St. Louis cop found not guilty of murder in on-duty shooting of black man in 2011

Quote:Ahead of the verdict, activists in St. Louis threatened civil disobedience if Stockley were acquitted, including possible efforts to shut down highways. Amid the growing uneasiness, the mayor and an attorney for Smith's fiance publicly urged for calm. Gov. Eric Greitens met with and assured black faith leaders that peaceful protesters' rights would be protected, but later stressed that violence wouldn't be tolerated.

Barricades went up on Aug. 28 around police headquarters, the courthouse where the trial was held, and other sites of recent or potential protests. Police said they were being proactive to ensure safety "due to recent events around the country."

Should we be surprised?

Nope, as I've mentioned previously, folks simple do no care about the facts. If they don't get the outcome they want, it's time to riot, facts mean nothing to those folks.

Subject was taken into custody after damaging a police vehicle. #STLVerdict — St. Louis, MO Police (@SLMPD) September 15, 2017

So far, that's been the only violence. Everything else has been relatively peaceful (again, other than the interstate attempts that were stopped - and the convention center bit had me worried, but they are still in lockdown in that building just in case.)

Dry cleaners, other retailers on Tucker boarding up buildings now with protesters a few blocks away following #JasonStockley verdict pic.twitter.com/V8ElLWMYvD

— Lisa Brown (@LisaBrownSTL) September 15, 2017


But just being better safe than sorry, it seems... although the protestors seem to have an issue with police having riot gear, even though they've not made one move against the protestors yet, other than the one arrest that I know of.

(09-15-2017 11:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Not suprised. They usually are not guilty. No different here.

You are correct. Cops are usually not found guilty in these cases.

For good reason. They usually aren't.

I agree. Most of the time, they didn't do anything illegal. Sometimes however, if they had just handled the situation differently, they may not have had to kill someone.

There was a case some years ago where a cop tried to stop a man from driving away in his car. The cop reached inside and tried to take his keys as the man drove off. The cop ended up having to shoot the guy to stop the car. He was rightfully found not guilty of manslaughter.

However, had he not done that, he likely would have caught the guy eventually after a chase or he might have even shot out the tires.

Just because a cop is found not guilty of killing someone doesn't mean they couldn't have done something to avoid shooting someone.

Quote:However, had he not done that, he likely would have caught the guy eventually after a chase or he might have even shot out the tires

Not necessarily Fit.. and he's endangering more people if he had let the chase go on. I agree with your last sentence though in theory, there's always something that they could have _probably_ done, but that's just a bad example

(09-15-2017 01:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

Quote:However, had he not done that, he likely would have caught the guy eventually after a chase or he might have even shot out the tires

Not necessarily Fit.. and he's endangering more people if he had let the chase go on. I agree with your last sentence though in theory, there's always something that they could have _probably_ done, but that's just a bad example

Maybe not the best example off the top of my head but you get my point.

In the Brown case, it didn't have to come to a fight for the gun if he had simply waited for backup.

(09-15-2017 01:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 01:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

Quote:However, had he not done that, he likely would have caught the guy eventually after a chase or he might have even shot out the tires

Not necessarily Fit.. and he's endangering more people if he had let the chase go on. I agree with your last sentence though in theory, there's always something that they could have _probably_ done, but that's just a bad example

Maybe not the best example off the top of my head but you get my point.

In the Brown case, it didn't have to come to a fight for the gun if he had simply waited for backup.

I agree; however, hindsight is always 20/20. In real time, sh!t happens. Best bet is not to put oneself in a bad situation in the first place.

(09-15-2017 01:50 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 01:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 01:20 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

Quote:However, had he not done that, he likely would have caught the guy eventually after a chase or he might have even shot out the tires

Not necessarily Fit.. and he's endangering more people if he had let the chase go on. I agree with your last sentence though in theory, there's always something that they could have _probably_ done, but that's just a bad example

Maybe not the best example off the top of my head but you get my point.

In the Brown case, it didn't have to come to a fight for the gun if he had simply waited for backup.

I agree; however, hindsight is always 20/20. In real time, sh!t happens. Best bet is not to put oneself in a bad situation in the first place.

Yup. On this we can agree. Cops are expected to act on a moments notice and sometimes they make mistakes.

(09-15-2017 12:09 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:25 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-15-2017 10:21 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Let's just see what happens in St. Louis this time:

Ex-St. Louis cop found not guilty of murder in on-duty shooting of black man in 2011

Quote:Ahead of the verdict, activists in St. Louis threatened civil disobedience if Stockley were acquitted, including possible efforts to shut down highways. Amid the growing uneasiness, the mayor and an attorney for Smith's fiance publicly urged for calm. Gov. Eric Greitens met with and assured black faith leaders that peaceful protesters' rights would be protected, but later stressed that violence wouldn't be tolerated.

Barricades went up on Aug. 28 around police headquarters, the courthouse where the trial was held, and other sites of recent or potential protests. Police said they were being proactive to ensure safety "due to recent events around the country."

Should we be surprised?

Nope, as I've mentioned previously, folks simple do no care about the facts. If they don't get the outcome they want, it's time to riot, facts mean nothing to those folks.

Yup.

See; Gray, Freddie. 2015.

(09-15-2017 01:07 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Dry cleaners, other retailers on Tucker boarding up buildings now with protesters a few blocks away following #JasonStockley verdict pic.twitter.com/V8ElLWMYvD

— Lisa Brown (@LisaBrownSTL) September 15, 2017


But just being better safe than sorry, it seems... although the protestors seem to have an issue with police having riot gear, even though they've not made one move against the protestors yet, other than the one arrest that I know of.

Well, clearly that's racist.

Are they suggesting they don't trust these peaceful protesters to abide by the law and express themselves sans violence?

Shameful.

It's not a peaceful protest. Nine police officers have been injured, and the mayor's home was vandalized.

Tonight's U2 show in Saint Louis has been cancelled:

https://www.facebook.com/u2/posts/10156039235316686

(09-16-2017 06:32 AM)bubbapt Wrote:  It's not a peaceful protest. Nine police officers have been injured, and the mayor's home was vandalized.

She did ask that local business owners be "understanding" of their protest. So I'm sure she's not upset at all that her house was vandalized in the process.

I find the desire to convict people of serious crimes based solely on the race of those involved disturbing.

The system worked.

(09-15-2017 10:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Not suprised. They usually are not guilty. No different here.

Of course, it all comes down to Black Privilege.