(09-21-2017 01:53 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 12:54 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  Not if you revise each conference along geographical lines. The conferences remain in tact as do the bids.

Sun Belt - Western based conference

Ark State, N. Texas, LA Tech, UAB, S. Miss, S. Alabama, Louisiana, Rice, TX State, UTSA, UTEP, NMSU

CUSA - Eastern based conference

Marshall, MT, WKU, ODU, Charlotte, App State, GA State, GA Southern, Coastal Carolina, FIU, FAU, Troy

Swap UAB and Troy.

Either way works for me. IMO, this makes the most sense for both conferences.

(09-21-2017 09:31 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 05:49 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(09-20-2017 04:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The sad thing for C-USA is that post expansion the paradigm changed. Markets didn't mean crap for G5s anymore and the playoff money went from being capped at 1 million/school for up to 12 schools to 1 million/school for up to 10. It no longer paid to be big and all of the new "projects" they took in were no longer carrying their weight.

I am not defending the C-USA decisions, but noting two of the added "project" programs, UTSA and Old Dominion, look to have been very good additions.

I think they are quality additions if your target is to add schools who can be competitive, but the spin when they were added was about maximizing television revenue. Under that measure there was no one CUSA could convince to join that would preserve or enhance television value so all additions beyond 10 were bad choices.

Which was why the CUSA-MW merger was always the best alternative. Both conferences allowed themselves to be caught up in minor details (multiple NCAA bids, NCAA credits, etc) that were really not as important as maintaining the general quality of the membership. By merging---the conferences would only have needed to add one school. Losing a portion of future NCAA credit income wasn't worth diluting either league.

No to disband. Yes to expand.

(09-21-2017 03:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  No to disband. Yes to expand.

ECU coming back in the fold? Great!

(09-21-2017 03:34 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  No to disband. Yes to expand.

ECU coming back in the fold? Great!

No. Liberty and BYU.

(09-21-2017 03:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:34 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  No to disband. Yes to expand.

ECU coming back in the fold? Great!

No. Liberty and BYU.

Uh.....OK.....I guess? Are they a package deal? I'm not for expanding for Liberty but would have no qualms about going to 16 to add BYU. They can pick their partner.

(09-21-2017 03:47 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:34 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  No to disband. Yes to expand.

ECU coming back in the fold? Great!

No. Liberty and BYU.

Uh.....OK.....I guess? Are they a package deal? I'm not for expanding for Liberty but would have no qualms about going to 16 to add BYU. They can pick their partner.

Similar schools with the religious restrictions. Doesn't Liberty have an Honor Code too? One is having a decent year in football, Liberty, the other is hot garbage this year.

(09-21-2017 03:55 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:47 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:34 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:32 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  No to disband. Yes to expand.

ECU coming back in the fold? Great!

No. Liberty and BYU.

Uh.....OK.....I guess? Are they a package deal? I'm not for expanding for Liberty but would have no qualms about going to 16 to add BYU. They can pick their partner.

Similar schools with the religious restrictions. Doesn't Liberty have an Honor Code too? One is having a decent year in football, Liberty, the other is hot garbage this year.

Hot garbage welcome. We'll leave the light on for you Pirates.

(09-21-2017 03:56 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:55 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:47 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:34 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  ECU coming back in the fold? Great!

No. Liberty and BYU.

Uh.....OK.....I guess? Are they a package deal? I'm not for expanding for Liberty but would have no qualms about going to 16 to add BYU. They can pick their partner.

Similar schools with the religious restrictions. Doesn't Liberty have an Honor Code too? One is having a decent year in football, Liberty, the other is hot garbage this year.

Hot garbage welcome. We'll leave the light on for you Pirates.

We will beat BYU and win at least 1 AAC game this year

(09-21-2017 03:57 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:56 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:55 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:47 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 03:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  No. Liberty and BYU.

Uh.....OK.....I guess? Are they a package deal? I'm not for expanding for Liberty but would have no qualms about going to 16 to add BYU. They can pick their partner.

Similar schools with the religious restrictions. Doesn't Liberty have an Honor Code too? One is having a decent year in football, Liberty, the other is hot garbage this year.

Hot garbage welcome. We'll leave the light on for you Pirates.

We will beat BYU and win at least 1 AAC game this year

I haven't followed BYU this year but it seems you could beat several AAC East teams and not be considered good.

(09-21-2017 05:49 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(09-20-2017 04:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The sad thing for C-USA is that post expansion the paradigm changed. Markets didn't mean crap for G5s anymore and the playoff money went from being capped at 1 million/school for up to 12 schools to 1 million/school for up to 10. It no longer paid to be big and all of the new "projects" they took in were no longer carrying their weight.

I am not defending the C-USA decisions, but noting two of the added "project" programs, UTSA and Old Dominion, look to have been very good additions.

ODU has been a good project. For UTSA this looks like the first year so far that they've been good. I'd argue that Charlotte and the FAU and FIU works in progress they snagged from the Sunbelt have not.

Note that of the newcomers who have performed the best--MTSU, WKU, and LA Tech--two of those were among the last to be added.

(09-21-2017 12:58 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-20-2017 04:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wonder what Marshall, UAB, USM, Rice, and UTEP would have done if they knew they'd be the ones left in C-USA after the expansion?

It's not like they lost all 7 members at once--first it was Houston, UCF, & SMU, then came the Memphis announcement, later ECU and Tulane got the call up, and last came Tulsa. Each time they lost a school they hurried to announce a replacement without knowing what the end picture was going to look like.

Knowing what we know now Marshall might have decided the MAC was a more suitable option while Rice and UTEP might have wiggled their way into the MWC, leaving USM and UAB to join the Sunbelt.

Or perhaps we see a rebuild that is less aggressive and more about building a stable product for the future than a scramble to replace markets. ECU was pushing hard for Charlotte and ODU so they had more schools in the footprint near them. Without ECU around are these adds even necessary? Then there are the Florida schools--I think that everyone in C-USA panicked when they lost UCF and there was an urgency to get back in the state at all costs and the cost was picking up not one but two programs with "potential" but very little fan support on field success that stretched the footprint to very southern tip of Florida.

The sad thing for C-USA is that post expansion the paradigm changed. Markets didn't mean crap for G5s anymore and the playoff money went from being capped at 1 million/school for up to 12 schools to 1 million/school for up to 10. It no longer paid to be big and all of the new "projects" they took in were no longer carrying their weight.

Based on a number of conversations, I don't believe "markets" were driving things as much as was claimed but rather a means to explain how a committee tasked with drawing a horse produced a camel.

I've talked to a friend at ESPN Events (formerly ESPN Regional) an administrator at a CUSA school, and a retired administrator and they say the expansion process started with a general consensus they would add North Texas to get to 9 but might compromise and FIU to make it 10.

Two things intervened.
One. Terry Holland secured the support of Marshall and ECU to block expansion unless two more eastern teams were added. ODU and Charlotte were the front-runners but MTSU, FAU, James Madison and App State were others considered in the event anything derailed one or both of the others. They envisioned an Eastern Division of: ECU, Marshall, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, and UAB with the West being: UTEP, Rice, Tulane UNT, Tulsa, USM.
Two. Louisiana Tech had been dismissed in the initial consideration because they were smaller market wise and feared they would be blamed for collapsing the WAC, Craig Thompson informed Bankowsky they were moving on the WAC and the mood changed.

Much like the infamous WAC meeting to go to 12 that resulted in going to 16, going to 14 became the easiest way to sort things out.

Replacing ECU and Tulane with MTSU and FAU was to a degree a knee-jerk reaction and to a degree keeping the league in position to go to 16 which remained on the table as an option.

Then WKU replaced Tulsa.

Bankowsky then began lobbying to go on to 16 wanting Arkansas State and Louisiana-Lafayette to permit UAB to go east. The eastern members balked wanting JMU to be added with only one western school and with that expansion fizzled out.

Now had Boise and SDSU returned to MWC sooner and Big 10 grabbed Maryland sooner would things have gone differently? Most likely so.

I also venture to say that ECU and Marshall were also not nearly as enthused about the planned MWC merger either? It's too bad that that particular plan didn't hang on for just a little while longer. May 4th was the big day that MWC/C-USA fell apart; had it lasted until November ECU and Tulane would have been out of the picture and thus ECU and Marshall would not have been in the position to add all the eastern schools.

The alternative is that UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, USM, and UAB drag the footprint westward against Marshall's wishes. UTSA, UNT, LA Tech, WKU, and MTSU would be more their style. Heck, Marshall might have been inclined to go to the MAC rather than stay. ULL and Ark St would have had a path into the league around the time that Tulsa left.

West: UTEP, UTSA, Rice, UNT, ULL, LA Tech
East: Ark St, USM, UAB, MTSU, WKU, Marshall

SBC West: Texas St, ULM, USA, Troy, GA St, GA Southern
SBC East: FAU, FIU, Charlotte, App St, ODU, JMU
nonfootball: UALR, UTA?

Another possibility is that UTEP and Rice keep the merger with the MWC alive long enough that they make it happen and UAB and USM ultimately go with them. The MWC's 8 plus these 4 plus the return of Boise St and SDSU make 14. 16 if they Bing in Utah St and San Jose St.

UTSA is gonna need to get on campus sooner or later. No pro level stadium is ever the solution unless you're Minnesota, USC or someone.

We need to find a way for these schools in these conferences sooner.

James Madison
Lamar
Sam Houston State
Missouri State
Delaware
Eastern Kentucky
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Jacksonville State

Would Marshall be pushing for Youngstown State?
Missouri State have been wanted by both SBC and C-USA.

Missouri State, SFA and Northern Iowa could boast your basketball big time.
James Madison, Sam Houston State, Eastern Kentucky, Northern Iowa, Youngstown State and Jacksonville State could boast football. Lamar does have a better football product than Charlotte and the F_U schools. Delaware does have a history of a good football product. They have been lagging in recent years. They may need a new change of conference soon to get back to where they are at in the past like App State and Georgia Southern.

(09-21-2017 06:18 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  We need to find a way for these schools in these conferences sooner.

James Madison
Lamar
Sam Houston State
Missouri State
Delaware
Eastern Kentucky
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Jacksonville State

Would Marshall be pushing for Youngstown State?
Missouri State have been wanted by both SBC and C-USA.

Missouri State, SFA and Northern Iowa could boast your basketball big time.
James Madison, Sam Houston State, Eastern Kentucky, Northern Iowa, Youngstown State and Jacksonville State could boast football. Lamar does have a better football product than Charlotte and the F_U schools. Delaware does have a history of a good football product. They have been lagging in recent years. They may need a new change of conference soon to get back to where they are at in the past like App State and Georgia Southern.

DavidSt--this hypothetical rearrangement is about strengthening C-USA not diluting it with more FCS programs while at the same time tightening the footprint. I don't see Marshall in the position to lobby for Youngstown St, Charlotte, or ODU. The five other schools would have numbers on them--they throw them a bone with WKU and MTSU but only because it is beneficial for UAB as well since they act as a bridge.

In this scenario some FCS schools are going to come up but it is going to be Texas St, ULM, UALR, UTA, USA, Troy, GA St, FIU, and FAU bringing them into the Sunbelt and they are likely got with the ones that moved up in real life--GA Southern, App St, Charlotte, ODU and I threw in JMU in the mix as well because I think this version of the SBC would be more appealing to them than the one they said no to due to the geography and potential Divison mats they'd have.

There is no way that Rice would stomach being in a league with SFA, Sam Houston St, and Lamar--they can bearly handle UTSA and UNT.

(09-21-2017 06:18 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  We need to find a way for these schools in these conferences sooner.

James Madison
Lamar
Sam Houston State
Missouri State
Delaware
Eastern Kentucky
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Jacksonville State

Would Marshall be pushing for Youngstown State?
Missouri State have been wanted by both SBC and C-USA.

Missouri State, SFA and Northern Iowa could boast your basketball big time.
James Madison, Sam Houston State, Eastern Kentucky, Northern Iowa, Youngstown State and Jacksonville State could boast football. Lamar does have a better football product than Charlotte and the F_U schools. Delaware does have a history of a good football product. They have been lagging in recent years. They may need a new change of conference soon to get back to where they are at in the past like App State and Georgia Southern.

C-USA needs to split in half...add one to each side and start over. If the west half did it, it'd be a relatively strong conference., especially if they added Texas State.

(09-21-2017 09:21 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  C-USA needs to split in half...add one to each side and start over. If the west half did it, it'd be a relatively strong conference., especially if they added Texas State.

The "S.E.A. The South Eastern Atlantic

"Charlotte (Final 4), Appalachian (3x nation football champion), Liberty (TV), ODU, JMU, Coastal Carolina (CWS champion), Georgia St., Georgia Southern (6x national football champions), FAU, FIU, (Basketball: UNC-Wilmington, College of Charleston).


The S.E.A. has champions, the coast, the metros, the mountains, and fertile recruiting. And the opportunity to create some rivalries


For Charlotte The "S.E.A." would eliminate five teams that are further away than the two Florida twins. For Charlotte those five far west teams would be replaced by five teams that the combined travel would equal one trip to UTEP.

If the TV money was still there I would love the CUSA as it is. If the TV exposurer was there I would love the CUSA as it is. The Golden Goose (TV) revenue is dead.

(09-21-2017 04:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(09-21-2017 12:58 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-20-2017 04:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wonder what Marshall, UAB, USM, Rice, and UTEP would have done if they knew they'd be the ones left in C-USA after the expansion?

It's not like they lost all 7 members at once--first it was Houston, UCF, & SMU, then came the Memphis announcement, later ECU and Tulane got the call up, and last came Tulsa. Each time they lost a school they hurried to announce a replacement without knowing what the end picture was going to look like.

Knowing what we know now Marshall might have decided the MAC was a more suitable option while Rice and UTEP might have wiggled their way into the MWC, leaving USM and UAB to join the Sunbelt.

Or perhaps we see a rebuild that is less aggressive and more about building a stable product for the future than a scramble to replace markets. ECU was pushing hard for Charlotte and ODU so they had more schools in the footprint near them. Without ECU around are these adds even necessary? Then there are the Florida schools--I think that everyone in C-USA panicked when they lost UCF and there was an urgency to get back in the state at all costs and the cost was picking up not one but two programs with "potential" but very little fan support on field success that stretched the footprint to very southern tip of Florida.

The sad thing for C-USA is that post expansion the paradigm changed. Markets didn't mean crap for G5s anymore and the playoff money went from being capped at 1 million/school for up to 12 schools to 1 million/school for up to 10. It no longer paid to be big and all of the new "projects" they took in were no longer carrying their weight.

Based on a number of conversations, I don't believe "markets" were driving things as much as was claimed but rather a means to explain how a committee tasked with drawing a horse produced a camel.

I've talked to a friend at ESPN Events (formerly ESPN Regional) an administrator at a CUSA school, and a retired administrator and they say the expansion process started with a general consensus they would add North Texas to get to 9 but might compromise and FIU to make it 10.

Two things intervened.
One. Terry Holland secured the support of Marshall and ECU to block expansion unless two more eastern teams were added. ODU and Charlotte were the front-runners but MTSU, FAU, James Madison and App State were others considered in the event anything derailed one or both of the others. They envisioned an Eastern Division of: ECU, Marshall, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, and UAB with the West being: UTEP, Rice, Tulane UNT, Tulsa, USM.
Two. Louisiana Tech had been dismissed in the initial consideration because they were smaller market wise and feared they would be blamed for collapsing the WAC, Craig Thompson informed Bankowsky they were moving on the WAC and the mood changed.

Much like the infamous WAC meeting to go to 12 that resulted in going to 16, going to 14 became the easiest way to sort things out.

Replacing ECU and Tulane with MTSU and FAU was to a degree a knee-jerk reaction and to a degree keeping the league in position to go to 16 which remained on the table as an option.

Then WKU replaced Tulsa.

Bankowsky then began lobbying to go on to 16 wanting Arkansas State and Louisiana-Lafayette to permit UAB to go east. The eastern members balked wanting JMU to be added with only one western school and with that expansion fizzled out.

Now had Boise and SDSU returned to MWC sooner and Big 10 grabbed Maryland sooner would things have gone differently? Most likely so.

I also venture to say that ECU and Marshall were also not nearly as enthused about the planned MWC merger either? It's too bad that that particular plan didn't hang on for just a little while longer. May 4th was the big day that MWC/C-USA fell apart; had it lasted until November ECU and Tulane would have been out of the picture and thus ECU and Marshall would not have been in the position to add all the eastern schools.

The alternative is that UTEP, Rice, Tulsa, USM, and UAB drag the footprint westward against Marshall's wishes. UTSA, UNT, LA Tech, WKU, and MTSU would be more their style. Heck, Marshall might have been inclined to go to the MAC rather than stay. ULL and Ark St would have had a path into the league around the time that Tulsa left.

West: UTEP, UTSA, Rice, UNT, ULL, LA Tech
East: Ark St, USM, UAB, MTSU, WKU, Marshall

SBC West: Texas St, ULM, USA, Troy, GA St, GA Southern
SBC East: FAU, FIU, Charlotte, App St, ODU, JMU
nonfootball: UALR, UTA?

Another possibility is that UTEP and Rice keep the merger with the MWC alive long enough that they make it happen and UAB and USM ultimately go with them. The MWC's 8 plus these 4 plus the return of Boise St and SDSU make 14. 16 if they Bing in Utah St and San Jose St.

I like your SBC East!