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Bears85 Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Position Grades BC
(09-19-2017 01:51 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-19-2017 01:03 PM)Bears85 Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 07:49 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 07:09 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 06:09 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Obvious only in the sense of being conservative right before the end of the half, deep in your own end with a lead. If I had to guess, the thought was to run it twice up the middle and get a third and short which gives you a lot of play options. And if you end up in third and long you just cut bait and go safe. Jones got 4 yards on the first run. That's a success. So to run it again isn't really a bad call. But he only got 1 yard. With the way Graham was throwing, the third run was sort of the white flag play. At some point you have to put some faith in your O line and RB to make a first down even when the defense is keying on the run. I'm not saying I like the calls, but it's not outlandish. Graham really limits your choices.

When you don't have great speed like NIU at WR , doesn't good route running become more important. Receivers cannot get much separation and I don't understand why you run just plain speed routes when it's not your advantage. Carey would just prefer you throw it 20 yards past your receiver running a streak than miscommunicate on any type of real route. At some point rod Carey has to trust the people he puts on the field. The coaching scared thing imo has become very toxic

I get the many deep routes. Make BC pay for press coverage. But I dont get sending Blake and Beebe deep as they both have only average speed. Maybe the BC corners are really fast too? IDK. Maybe its just that they are your best receivers and can adjust to the ball and win body position battles? But Graham has to give them a chance. I still havent looked at the video so I cant really say what kind of other deep or intermediate routes they were trying. Id rather go down swinging with Santa next week. How much worse could he possibly be??????????

What do you consider average speed???

Getting run down from behind while at top speed. There's a big difference between quick and straight line speed. While quickness is more useful and comes into play far more often then running 40+ yards at top speed, it's good to have one of those guys to keep the safeties honest. Beebe is very quick, but pretty average straight line. Blakes a little better but not fast enough to scare corners or safeties. I'd like to see Wesley sent deep since he's the only verifiable very fast guy. But granted that's by track standards that doesn't always translate toon the field speed..

Interesting. Which one of either Blake or Beebe has been run down from behind? I don't believe either one has to my knowledge of watching every game they both have played. It's funny that last year many said that Golladay and Turner were fast guys but both of them ran 4.5's at their Pro day. Not knocking either player (obviously, KD is a stud) but both Blake and Beebe are 4.5 guys from what I hear they were timed by NIU staff. I do agree with you that track speed doesn't always apply to the field. But I believe we have several players that can get deep including Blake and Beebe. We just don't have that style of offense. Which is not the WR's fault. We are more conservative than in the past because of the Jordan Lynch factor. But that could change now that Jordan Huff seems to be our No. 1 RB. We will see.
09-20-2017 01:09 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Position Grades BC
(09-20-2017 01:09 PM)Bears85 Wrote:  
(09-19-2017 01:51 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-19-2017 01:03 PM)Bears85 Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 07:49 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 07:09 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  When you don't have great speed like NIU at WR , doesn't good route running become more important. Receivers cannot get much separation and I don't understand why you run just plain speed routes when it's not your advantage. Carey would just prefer you throw it 20 yards past your receiver running a streak than miscommunicate on any type of real route. At some point rod Carey has to trust the people he puts on the field. The coaching scared thing imo has become very toxic

I get the many deep routes. Make BC pay for press coverage. But I dont get sending Blake and Beebe deep as they both have only average speed. Maybe the BC corners are really fast too? IDK. Maybe its just that they are your best receivers and can adjust to the ball and win body position battles? But Graham has to give them a chance. I still havent looked at the video so I cant really say what kind of other deep or intermediate routes they were trying. Id rather go down swinging with Santa next week. How much worse could he possibly be??????????

What do you consider average speed???

Getting run down from behind while at top speed. There's a big difference between quick and straight line speed. While quickness is more useful and comes into play far more often then running 40+ yards at top speed, it's good to have one of those guys to keep the safeties honest. Beebe is very quick, but pretty average straight line. Blakes a little better but not fast enough to scare corners or safeties. I'd like to see Wesley sent deep since he's the only verifiable very fast guy. But granted that's by track standards that doesn't always translate toon the field speed..

Interesting. Which one of either Blake or Beebe has been run down from behind? I don't believe either one has to my knowledge of watching every game they both have played. It's funny that last year many said that Golladay and Turner were fast guys but both of them ran 4.5's at their Pro day. Not knocking either player (obviously, KD is a stud) but both Blake and Beebe are 4.5 guys from what I hear they were timed by NIU staff. I do agree with you that track speed doesn't always apply to the field. But I believe we have several players that can get deep including Blake and Beebe. We just don't have that style of offense. Which is not the WR's fault. We are more conservative than in the past because of the Jordan Lynch factor. But that could change now that Jordan Huff seems to be our No. 1 RB. We will see.

Ive repeatedly stated here that Golladay did not have break away speed like Corey Davis and that was the biggest difference between the two and one being a 1st rd and the other a 3rd pick. much to the dismay of many Kenny fans here. The best instance I can recall for Beebe is his frosh year vs umass. The 80+ yard td. It sounds like a bad example because he did score, but he had a 5 yard head start on the db AND blocking help the last 20 yards and still almost got caught near the goal line. 40 time is not the best measure for top end speed. I don't recall Lynch and his 4.6 getting tracked down, but Wolfe and his 4.3 speed did. Brown was the Last "deep threat" that defenses had to respect his speed.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 01:31 PM by Rabid Squirrel.)
09-20-2017 01:27 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #83
RE: Position Grades BC
Wolfe didn't have 4.3 speed, more like 4.4. But I still don't really remember people catching up to him in college. I remember he got tackled once from behind by a defender diving at his legs as a last attempt to catch him before he got to the endzone. That was the game he said he saw himself on the jumbotron, Miami game I think. Defenders were as fast as him and tackled him if they had the angle (or if they were right behind him), but if it happened that anybody really gained ground on him enough to catch him it's awfully rare and I don't remember it. Certainly it wasn't an issue.

Not sure how fast Beebe is supposed to be, but he's fast enough. I don't know that everyone runs as fast as they can if they know that no one is close to them.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 02:21 PM by NIU007.)
09-20-2017 02:19 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Position Grades BC
I don't mean to imply beebe or Blake are slow. By average I just mean they have no speed advantage on most defenders. And a good move will more than make up for any speed deficiency. Blake did actually run by the NU corner on that deep ball and created his own space. So kudos to him. I've just not seen that ability from him before. I'm curious to see Spears and Wesley on a fly pattern because I feel they may have that ability to run by guys.

Wolfe's draft report has him at 4.39. So 4.4, but I'm sure he'd say "sub 4.4". And that Miami game was a case of him getting run down. Yes the defender had to dive, but he was closing distance on him and just ranout of field. But he closed the gap. Even if you don't get run down, if you can't run away from people I have a hard time saying you have real speed. Like the old saying "If we're even, I'm leavin'"
09-20-2017 02:39 PM
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Bears85 Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Position Grades BC
(09-20-2017 02:39 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I don't mean to imply beebe or Blake are slow. By average I just mean they have no speed advantage on most defenders. And a good move will more than make up for any speed deficiency. Blake did actually run by the NU corner on that deep ball and created his own space. So kudos to him. I've just not seen that ability from him before. I'm curious to see Spears and Wesley on a fly pattern because I feel they may have that ability to run by guys.

Wolfe's draft report has him at 4.39. So 4.4, but I'm sure he'd say "sub 4.4". And that Miami game was a case of him getting run down. Yes the defender had to dive, but he was closing distance on him and just ranout of field. But he closed the gap. Even if you don't get run down, if you can't run away from people I have a hard time saying you have real speed. Like the old saying "If we're even, I'm leavin'"

Got it. Makes sense on what you are saying now. And yes, Blake did run by the NU DB. Awesome stuff and game winning play for sure. Beebe, I believe is much faster than his freshman year considering he has gained much lbs. through training. Can't wait to get him back. I like the combo of him and Blake
09-20-2017 02:55 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #86
RE: Position Grades BC
(09-20-2017 02:39 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I don't mean to imply beebe or Blake are slow. By average I just mean they have no speed advantage on most defenders. And a good move will more than make up for any speed deficiency. Blake did actually run by the NU corner on that deep ball and created his own space. So kudos to him. I've just not seen that ability from him before. I'm curious to see Spears and Wesley on a fly pattern because I feel they may have that ability to run by guys.

Wolfe's draft report has him at 4.39. So 4.4, but I'm sure he'd say "sub 4.4". And that Miami game was a case of him getting run down. Yes the defender had to dive, but he was closing distance on him and just ranout of field. But he closed the gap. Even if you don't get run down, if you can't run away from people I have a hard time saying you have real speed. Like the old saying "If we're even, I'm leavin'"

I think Wolfe slowed down a little, that was the point. And I can't really think of any other time when they caught up to him.
09-20-2017 03:09 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #87
RE: Position Grades BC
(09-20-2017 02:39 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I don't mean to imply beebe or Blake are slow. By average I just mean they have no speed advantage on most defenders. And a good move will more than make up for any speed deficiency. Blake did actually run by the NU corner on that deep ball and created his own space. So kudos to him. I've just not seen that ability from him before. I'm curious to see Spears and Wesley on a fly pattern because I feel they may have that ability to run by guys.

Wolfe's draft report has him at 4.39. So 4.4, but I'm sure he'd say "sub 4.4". And that Miami game was a case of him getting run down. Yes the defender had to dive, but he was closing distance on him and just ranout of field. But he closed the gap. Even if you don't get run down, if you can't run away from people I have a hard time saying you have real speed. Like the old saying "If we're even, I'm leavin'"

I think Wolfe slowed down a little due to noticing himself on the jumbotron, that was the point. And I can't really think of any other time when they caught up to him.
09-20-2017 03:18 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Position Grades BC
(09-20-2017 03:18 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 02:39 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I don't mean to imply beebe or Blake are slow. By average I just mean they have no speed advantage on most defenders. And a good move will more than make up for any speed deficiency. Blake did actually run by the NU corner on that deep ball and created his own space. So kudos to him. I've just not seen that ability from him before. I'm curious to see Spears and Wesley on a fly pattern because I feel they may have that ability to run by guys.

Wolfe's draft report has him at 4.39. So 4.4, but I'm sure he'd say "sub 4.4". And that Miami game was a case of him getting run down. Yes the defender had to dive, but he was closing distance on him and just ranout of field. But he closed the gap. Even if you don't get run down, if you can't run away from people I have a hard time saying you have real speed. Like the old saying "If we're even, I'm leavin'"

I think Wolfe slowed down a little due to noticing himself on the jumbotron, that was the point. And I can't really think of any other time when they caught up to him.

Let's just say Wolfe is no Leshon Johnson with open field in front of him.
09-20-2017 03:52 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #89
RE: Position Grades BC
(09-20-2017 03:52 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 03:18 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 02:39 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I don't mean to imply beebe or Blake are slow. By average I just mean they have no speed advantage on most defenders. And a good move will more than make up for any speed deficiency. Blake did actually run by the NU corner on that deep ball and created his own space. So kudos to him. I've just not seen that ability from him before. I'm curious to see Spears and Wesley on a fly pattern because I feel they may have that ability to run by guys.

Wolfe's draft report has him at 4.39. So 4.4, but I'm sure he'd say "sub 4.4". And that Miami game was a case of him getting run down. Yes the defender had to dive, but he was closing distance on him and just ranout of field. But he closed the gap. Even if you don't get run down, if you can't run away from people I have a hard time saying you have real speed. Like the old saying "If we're even, I'm leavin'"

I think Wolfe slowed down a little due to noticing himself on the jumbotron, that was the point. And I can't really think of any other time when they caught up to him.

Let's just say Wolfe is no Leshon Johnson with open field in front of him.

I didn't watch every play of Leshon nor remember all the ones I watched, but I know defenders used to underestimate his speed and take the wrong angles, I think it was that as much as anything. I believe Leshon ran a 4.5 or certainly no better than 4.45.

I think there was almost no difference between Leshon and Wolfe once they got into an open secondary in terms of results.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 03:57 PM by NIU007.)
09-20-2017 03:55 PM
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Post: #90
RE: Position Grades BC
Turner is the one who pulled away from defenders.
09-20-2017 06:16 PM
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Bears85 Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Position Grades BC
(09-20-2017 06:16 PM)NIUSAE Wrote:  Turner is the one who pulled away from defenders.

Yeah and he ran a 4.56 at his Pro Day
09-20-2017 07:01 PM
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