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After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
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Kaplony Offline
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After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
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Quote: At a steel factory dwarfed by the adjacent Auto Club Speedway, Fernando Esparza is working toward his next promotion.

Esparza is a 46-year-old mechanic for Evolution Fresh, a subsidiary of Starbucks that makes juices and smoothies. He’s taking a class in industrial computing taught by a community college at a local manufacturing plant in the hope it will bump up his wages.

It’s a pretty safe bet. The skills being taught here are in high demand. That’s in part because so much effort has been put into encouraging high school graduates to go to college for academic degrees rather than for training in industrial and other trades that many fields like his face worker shortages.

Now California is spending $6 million on a campaign to revive the reputation of vocational education, and $200 million to improve the delivery of it.

Quote:Standing in a cavernous teaching lab full of industrial equipment on the college’s Tulare campus, Emery said the decades-long national push for high school graduates to get bachelor’s degrees left vocational programs with an image problem, and the nation’s factories with far fewer skilled workers than needed.

“I’m a survivor of that teardown mode of the ’70s and ’80s, that college-for-all thing,” he said.

This has had the unintended consequence of helping flatten out or steadily erode the share of students taking vocational courses. In California’s community colleges, for instance, it’s dropped to 28 percent from 31 percent since 2000, contributing to a shortage of trained workers with more than a high school diploma but less than a bachelor’s degree.

Quote:Research by the state’s 114-campus community college system showed that families and employers alike didn’t know of the existence or value of vocational programs and the certifications they confer, many of which can add tens of thousands of dollars per year to a graduate’s income.

“We needed to do a better job getting the word out,” said Van Ton-Quinlivan, the system’s vice chancellor for workforce and economic development.

High schools and colleges have struggled for decades to attract students to job-oriented classes ranging from welding to nursing. They’ve tried cosmetic changes, such as rebranding “vocational” courses as “career and technical education,” but students and their families have yet to buy in, said Andrew Hanson, a senior research analyst with Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce.

Federal figures show that only 8 percent of undergraduates are enrolled in certificate programs, which tend to be vocationally oriented.

Quote:The United States has 30 million jobs that pay an average of $55,000 per year and don’t require a bachelor’s degree, according to the Georgetown center. People with career and technical educations are actually slightly more likely to be employed than their counterparts with academic credentials, the U.S. Department of Education reports, and significantly more likely to be working in their fields of study.

At California Steel Industries, where Esparza was learning industrial computing, some supervisors without college degrees make as much as $120,000 per year and electricians also can make six figures, company officials said.

Quote:Skilled trades show among the highest potential among job categories, the economic-modeling company Emsi calculates. It says tradespeople also are older than workers in other fields — more than half were over 45 in 2012, the last period for which the subject was studied — meaning looming retirements could result in big shortages.

High schools and community colleges are the keys to filling industrial jobs, Hanson said, but something needs to change.

“You haven’t yet been able to attract students from middle-class and more affluent communities” to vocational programs, he said. “Efforts like California’s to broaden the appeal are exactly what we need.”

Aside from marketing the programs differently and making them simpler to find and apply for, California is trying to ease the process through which individual campuses can add new programs that could help local businesses. If a region needs respiratory therapists, for example, community colleges will be able to avoid some of the red tape that previously hampered their flexibility to train new therapists.

“We definitely wanted to get out of the colleges’ way,” Ton-Quinlivan said.
08-31-2017 04:38 PM
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EigenEagle Online
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
(08-31-2017 04:38 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
Quote:The United States has 30 million jobs that pay an average of $55,000 per year and don’t require a bachelor’s degree, according to the Georgetown center. People with career and technical educations are actually slightly more likely to be employed than their counterparts with academic credentials, the U.S. Department of Education reports, and significantly more likely to be working in their fields of study.

At California Steel Industries, where Esparza was learning industrial computing, some supervisors without college degrees make as much as $120,000 per year and electricians also can make six figures, company officials said.

That is a mind-blowing number right there. 04-jawdrop

I would go farther than saying we need more technical school to saying the whole system of postsecondary education needs to change.
08-31-2017 04:49 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
This stuff used to be taught in high schools. That's the real crime. Kids don't have shop, FFA, or homec anymore. That's a part of this too.
08-31-2017 04:52 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
(08-31-2017 04:52 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This stuff used to be taught in high schools. That's the real crime. Kids don't have shop, FFA, or homec anymore. That's a part of this too.

I wonder who's to blame for that.
08-31-2017 05:34 PM
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Hood-rich Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
big bucks to be made for common sense people.

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08-31-2017 05:39 PM
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EigenEagle Online
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
(08-31-2017 04:52 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This stuff used to be taught in high schools. That's the real crime. Kids don't have shop, FFA, or homec anymore. That's a part of this too.

Teaching kids that only unambitious losers would choose vo-tech also hurts.
08-31-2017 05:51 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
It's the balance. Bachelors degrees are too common and trades have been ignored. I agree that we need to focus on what people can do with an Associates or less. But we shouldn't emphasize how much money you can make because those figures won't last 5 years if people rush into them. It should be noted that these salary statistics are based on the current trend of employment in those fields and that sudden interest in them will make those $55K jobs into $35K jobs, just like what happened in areas in the IT field.

I think emphasis needs to be given on the variety of things you can do with certain skills and that we should expand the definition of what a trade is, like Germany.
08-31-2017 06:02 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
(08-31-2017 05:51 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(08-31-2017 04:52 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This stuff used to be taught in high schools. That's the real crime. Kids don't have shop, FFA, or homec anymore. That's a part of this too.

Teaching kids that only unambitious losers would choose vo-tech also hurts.

I don't think that actually happens though. Most states have a vo-tech requirement for even college university prep.
08-31-2017 06:03 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
The only ones that are putting vocational school graduates into the work force is the armed services. I know I got my job because of it and there are thousands out there who got employed the same way through armed forces tech schools and subsequent working on that training. The real learning is the OJT afterward, tech school only teaches the basics. I hope more start technical schools instead of liberal arts degrees that get you a job at mcdonalds.
08-31-2017 07:00 PM
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LIBSOC Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
colleges and universities are corporations
08-31-2017 07:01 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
No **** sherlock. Tradesmen are desperately needed across the majority of industries in the US. For too long kids have been told that they need a college degree and in my opinion this has lead to the numerous useless degrees offered by colleges so they can churn out graduates and enroll more and more students. I'd like to see acceptance rates below 50% for all 4 year colleges.
09-01-2017 07:43 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
We only need 25-30% with bachelor's degrees.

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09-01-2017 07:47 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
(08-31-2017 07:00 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The only ones that are putting vocational school graduates into the work force is the armed services. I know I got my job because of it and there are thousands out there who got employed the same way through armed forces tech schools and subsequent working on that training. The real learning is the OJT afterward, tech school only teaches the basics. I hope more start technical schools instead of liberal arts degrees that get you a job at mcdonalds.
Truth



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09-01-2017 07:48 AM
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I45owl Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
Am I the only one that read the thread title and seriously thought it said "trans-people"?

#lifeinthespinroom
09-01-2017 08:12 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
(09-01-2017 07:47 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  We only need 25-30% with bachelor's degrees.

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I agree.
09-01-2017 08:15 AM
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VA49er Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
Hell, if I had to do it all over again I'd have coupled a trade with a business degree. Maybe have become a master plumber/electriction and started my own business. I'd be freaking rich today if I had done that. College isn't for everyone and there is lots of money to be made in a trade.
09-01-2017 08:47 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
If I could do it all over again, I'd do four years in a service after graduation as an officer, with a concentration within the military in business and administration.
09-01-2017 09:01 AM
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
My father-in-law dropped out of High School in the 11th grade. He makes $40/hour as a contractor and works 60+ hours a week. Most of it goes unreported so it's cash in his pocket. He is one of those guys who can tell you what's wrong with your car by listening to it over the phone.. can build computers from the ground up, and has built a house from start to finish.

That is a rare, dying breed.
(This post was last modified: 09-01-2017 09:23 AM by ECUGrad07.)
09-01-2017 09:22 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
(09-01-2017 09:22 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  My father-in-law dropped out of High School in the 11th grade. He makes $40/hour as a contractor and works 60+ hours a week. Most of it goes unreported so it's cash in his pocket. He is one of those guys who can tell you what's wrong with your car by listening to it over the phone.. can build computers from the ground up, and has built a house from start to finish.

That is a rare, dying breed.

Renaissance man. Learn everything you can from him while you can.
09-01-2017 09:27 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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RE: After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
(09-01-2017 09:22 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  He makes $40/hour as a contractor and works 60+ hours a week.

My buddy is like this. Only regret is his knees that are all shot to hell through all that hard work on the job sites, and his back isn't that much better.
09-01-2017 09:28 AM
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