(08-29-2017 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 11:28 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  That's the thing. There aren't games to go around. Playing a 20 game schedule + historic rivals + a B1G game is already too much. Adding in a random SEC game would mean the loss of a historic rival, which is dumb and doesn't benefit the ACC.

But don't believe me. Look at schedules. Find a year where SU plays all its historic rivals in the same year ... and those schedules were made BEFORE the ACC lengthened its schedules ... and those schedules don't involve random SEC-ACC challenge games.

[EDIT: Nobody is proposing an extension to the regular season because it already happened within the last couple of months.]

[EDIT x2: There's a HUGE need to play cupcakes. Are you nuts?!]

1. Yes, I'm nuts. Have you not been paying attention to my posts?

2. I looked at Syracuse's schedule this year and these are the marquee match-ups...Maryland, Kansas, UConn, and I'll even stretch the definition and give you St. Bonaventure. BUT, they've got Cornell, Iona, Texas Southern, Oakland, Toledo, Colgate, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan also.

Are you telling me all those schools are traditional rivals of Syracuse? Because that's more than a little ridiculous. I figured there'd be a few more Georgetowns and St. Johns and perhaps a few more of those are scheduled in the future.

Anyway...

Point being, there's obviously enough games to go around. All you have to do is take one of those cupcakes off and play an SEC school that admittedly is not likely to be elite, but is almost certainly better than all those cupcakes.

What's wrong with that?

Here's what you're missing:
1. To you're point, there's no St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova. If the schedule is already crowded enough to keep Georgetown off the schedule, why do you think adding a game against (put SEC team here) is a good idea?

2. The longer conference schedule kicks in during the 2019 season. So we're leaving off 3(!) major rivals during the short conference season. That scheduling issue will only get worse as the conference adds games to the regular season, and it would get doubly worse if we also had to anhililate a random SEC team every year.

3. Those cupcakes are there for a reason. They're rest games and easy wins. Traditional rivals (read usually elite teams) + ACC schedule (read best basketball conference in the land) + interesting OOC games (read elite teams) = meat grinder as is. Replacing a school like Cornell (rest game) w/ a team like Arkansas (winnable game, but not rest game) is insane and won't ever happen. Then look at the back story of those games. They're usually played during breaks and at Syracuse. Schools like Cornell are about as good a ticket as a school like Mississippi state would be (MSU probably has more fans, but Cornell fans don't have to travel). That travel comparison is especially true when all the students are home, so there is no student section, and the only students at the game are the local kids. Why would SU give up half a home game?

As I said, the cupcakes are important, and there is no room in the schedule. The conference-related commitments are too much as is. Adding a challenge doesn't make sense. And, trading the B1G for the SEC is a terrible trade in basketball.

Clemson/FSU football is a good analogy.

(08-29-2017 05:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 11:28 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  That's the thing. There aren't games to go around. Playing a 20 game schedule + historic rivals + a B1G game is already too much. Adding in a random SEC game would mean the loss of a historic rival, which is dumb and doesn't benefit the ACC.

But don't believe me. Look at schedules. Find a year where SU plays all its historic rivals in the same year ... and those schedules were made BEFORE the ACC lengthened its schedules ... and those schedules don't involve random SEC-ACC challenge games.

[EDIT: Nobody is proposing an extension to the regular season because it already happened within the last couple of months.]

[EDIT x2: There's a HUGE need to play cupcakes. Are you nuts?!]

1. Yes, I'm nuts. Have you not been paying attention to my posts?

2. I looked at Syracuse's schedule this year and these are the marquee match-ups...Maryland, Kansas, UConn, and I'll even stretch the definition and give you St. Bonaventure. BUT, they've got Cornell, Iona, Texas Southern, Oakland, Toledo, Colgate, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan also.

Are you telling me all those schools are traditional rivals of Syracuse? Because that's more than a little ridiculous. I figured there'd be a few more Georgetowns and St. Johns and perhaps a few more of those are scheduled in the future.

Anyway...

Point being, there's obviously enough games to go around. All you have to do is take one of those cupcakes off and play an SEC school that admittedly is not likely to be elite, but is almost certainly better than all those cupcakes.

What's wrong with that?

Here's what you're missing:
1. To you're point, there's no St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova. If the schedule is already crowded enough to keep Georgetown off the schedule, why do you think adding a game against (put SEC team here) is a good idea?

2. The longer conference schedule kicks in during the 2019 season. So we're leaving off 3(!) major rivals during the short conference season. That scheduling issue will only get worse as the conference adds games to the regular season, and it would get doubly worse if we also had to anhililate a random SEC team every year.

3. Those cupcakes are there for a reason. They're rest games and easy wins. Traditional rivals (read usually elite teams) + ACC schedule (read best basketball conference in the land) + interesting OOC games (read elite teams) = meat grinder as is. Replacing a school like Cornell (rest game) w/ a team like Arkansas (winnable game, but not rest game) is insane and won't ever happen. Then look at the back story of those games. They're usually played during breaks and at Syracuse. Schools like Cornell are about as good a ticket as a school like Mississippi state would be (MSU probably has more fans, but Cornell fans don't have to travel). That travel comparison is especially true when all the students are home, so there is no student section, and the only students at the game are the local kids. Why would SU give up half a home game?

As I said, the cupcakes are important, and there is no room in the schedule. The conference-related commitments are too much as is. Adding a challenge doesn't make sense. And, trading the B1G for the SEC is a terrible trade in basketball.

Clemson/FSU football is a good analogy.

Well, I know I would prefer about as many quality teams on the schedule as I could get with a minimal number of cupcakes to fill things out.

To each his own I suppose.

(08-29-2017 06:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 05:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 11:28 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  That's the thing. There aren't games to go around. Playing a 20 game schedule + historic rivals + a B1G game is already too much. Adding in a random SEC game would mean the loss of a historic rival, which is dumb and doesn't benefit the ACC.

But don't believe me. Look at schedules. Find a year where SU plays all its historic rivals in the same year ... and those schedules were made BEFORE the ACC lengthened its schedules ... and those schedules don't involve random SEC-ACC challenge games.

[EDIT: Nobody is proposing an extension to the regular season because it already happened within the last couple of months.]

[EDIT x2: There's a HUGE need to play cupcakes. Are you nuts?!]

1. Yes, I'm nuts. Have you not been paying attention to my posts?

2. I looked at Syracuse's schedule this year and these are the marquee match-ups...Maryland, Kansas, UConn, and I'll even stretch the definition and give you St. Bonaventure. BUT, they've got Cornell, Iona, Texas Southern, Oakland, Toledo, Colgate, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan also.

Are you telling me all those schools are traditional rivals of Syracuse? Because that's more than a little ridiculous. I figured there'd be a few more Georgetowns and St. Johns and perhaps a few more of those are scheduled in the future.

Anyway...

Point being, there's obviously enough games to go around. All you have to do is take one of those cupcakes off and play an SEC school that admittedly is not likely to be elite, but is almost certainly better than all those cupcakes.

What's wrong with that?

Here's what you're missing:
1. To you're point, there's no St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova. If the schedule is already crowded enough to keep Georgetown off the schedule, why do you think adding a game against (put SEC team here) is a good idea?

2. The longer conference schedule kicks in during the 2019 season. So we're leaving off 3(!) major rivals during the short conference season. That scheduling issue will only get worse as the conference adds games to the regular season, and it would get doubly worse if we also had to anhililate a random SEC team every year.

3. Those cupcakes are there for a reason. They're rest games and easy wins. Traditional rivals (read usually elite teams) + ACC schedule (read best basketball conference in the land) + interesting OOC games (read elite teams) = meat grinder as is. Replacing a school like Cornell (rest game) w/ a team like Arkansas (winnable game, but not rest game) is insane and won't ever happen. Then look at the back story of those games. They're usually played during breaks and at Syracuse. Schools like Cornell are about as good a ticket as a school like Mississippi state would be (MSU probably has more fans, but Cornell fans don't have to travel). That travel comparison is especially true when all the students are home, so there is no student section, and the only students at the game are the local kids. Why would SU give up half a home game?

As I said, the cupcakes are important, and there is no room in the schedule. The conference-related commitments are too much as is. Adding a challenge doesn't make sense. And, trading the B1G for the SEC is a terrible trade in basketball.

Clemson/FSU football is a good analogy.

Well, I know I would prefer about as many quality teams on the schedule as I could get with a minimal number of cupcakes to fill things out.

To each his own I suppose.

Tell that to your school's football program.

(This isn't a shot at Alabama. It just clearly illustrates the point ... only unlike much of the ACC, Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals, and the SEC has a short conference-mandated schedule.)

(08-29-2017 06:43 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 05:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 11:28 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  That's the thing. There aren't games to go around. Playing a 20 game schedule + historic rivals + a B1G game is already too much. Adding in a random SEC game would mean the loss of a historic rival, which is dumb and doesn't benefit the ACC.

But don't believe me. Look at schedules. Find a year where SU plays all its historic rivals in the same year ... and those schedules were made BEFORE the ACC lengthened its schedules ... and those schedules don't involve random SEC-ACC challenge games.

[EDIT: Nobody is proposing an extension to the regular season because it already happened within the last couple of months.]

[EDIT x2: There's a HUGE need to play cupcakes. Are you nuts?!]

1. Yes, I'm nuts. Have you not been paying attention to my posts?

2. I looked at Syracuse's schedule this year and these are the marquee match-ups...Maryland, Kansas, UConn, and I'll even stretch the definition and give you St. Bonaventure. BUT, they've got Cornell, Iona, Texas Southern, Oakland, Toledo, Colgate, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan also.

Are you telling me all those schools are traditional rivals of Syracuse? Because that's more than a little ridiculous. I figured there'd be a few more Georgetowns and St. Johns and perhaps a few more of those are scheduled in the future.

Anyway...

Point being, there's obviously enough games to go around. All you have to do is take one of those cupcakes off and play an SEC school that admittedly is not likely to be elite, but is almost certainly better than all those cupcakes.

What's wrong with that?

Here's what you're missing:
1. To you're point, there's no St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova. If the schedule is already crowded enough to keep Georgetown off the schedule, why do you think adding a game against (put SEC team here) is a good idea?

2. The longer conference schedule kicks in during the 2019 season. So we're leaving off 3(!) major rivals during the short conference season. That scheduling issue will only get worse as the conference adds games to the regular season, and it would get doubly worse if we also had to anhililate a random SEC team every year.

3. Those cupcakes are there for a reason. They're rest games and easy wins. Traditional rivals (read usually elite teams) + ACC schedule (read best basketball conference in the land) + interesting OOC games (read elite teams) = meat grinder as is. Replacing a school like Cornell (rest game) w/ a team like Arkansas (winnable game, but not rest game) is insane and won't ever happen. Then look at the back story of those games. They're usually played during breaks and at Syracuse. Schools like Cornell are about as good a ticket as a school like Mississippi state would be (MSU probably has more fans, but Cornell fans don't have to travel). That travel comparison is especially true when all the students are home, so there is no student section, and the only students at the game are the local kids. Why would SU give up half a home game?

As I said, the cupcakes are important, and there is no room in the schedule. The conference-related commitments are too much as is. Adding a challenge doesn't make sense. And, trading the B1G for the SEC is a terrible trade in basketball.

Clemson/FSU football is a good analogy.

Well, I know I would prefer about as many quality teams on the schedule as I could get with a minimal number of cupcakes to fill things out.

To each his own I suppose.

Tell that to your school's football program.

(This isn't a shot at Alabama. It just clearly illustrates the point ... only unlike much of the ACC, Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals, and the SEC has a short conference-mandated schedule.)

Right.....? Alabama plays 9 P games this year and opens with Florida State. Yeah, they are definitely dodging folks. They do play Fresno State, Colorado State and Mercer. I'd call that a cut above what your 'Cuse is playing. And btw Auburn plays nine as well and plays Clemson in the second game. That's exactly the same number of P5 schools that your Orange play and they open up with Central Connecticut, Middle Tennessee and Central Michigan before playing L.S.U..

(08-29-2017 07:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:43 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 05:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  1. Yes, I'm nuts. Have you not been paying attention to my posts?

2. I looked at Syracuse's schedule this year and these are the marquee match-ups...Maryland, Kansas, UConn, and I'll even stretch the definition and give you St. Bonaventure. BUT, they've got Cornell, Iona, Texas Southern, Oakland, Toledo, Colgate, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan also.

Are you telling me all those schools are traditional rivals of Syracuse? Because that's more than a little ridiculous. I figured there'd be a few more Georgetowns and St. Johns and perhaps a few more of those are scheduled in the future.

Anyway...

Point being, there's obviously enough games to go around. All you have to do is take one of those cupcakes off and play an SEC school that admittedly is not likely to be elite, but is almost certainly better than all those cupcakes.

What's wrong with that?

Here's what you're missing:
1. To you're point, there's no St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova. If the schedule is already crowded enough to keep Georgetown off the schedule, why do you think adding a game against (put SEC team here) is a good idea?

2. The longer conference schedule kicks in during the 2019 season. So we're leaving off 3(!) major rivals during the short conference season. That scheduling issue will only get worse as the conference adds games to the regular season, and it would get doubly worse if we also had to anhililate a random SEC team every year.

3. Those cupcakes are there for a reason. They're rest games and easy wins. Traditional rivals (read usually elite teams) + ACC schedule (read best basketball conference in the land) + interesting OOC games (read elite teams) = meat grinder as is. Replacing a school like Cornell (rest game) w/ a team like Arkansas (winnable game, but not rest game) is insane and won't ever happen. Then look at the back story of those games. They're usually played during breaks and at Syracuse. Schools like Cornell are about as good a ticket as a school like Mississippi state would be (MSU probably has more fans, but Cornell fans don't have to travel). That travel comparison is especially true when all the students are home, so there is no student section, and the only students at the game are the local kids. Why would SU give up half a home game?

As I said, the cupcakes are important, and there is no room in the schedule. The conference-related commitments are too much as is. Adding a challenge doesn't make sense. And, trading the B1G for the SEC is a terrible trade in basketball.

Clemson/FSU football is a good analogy.

Well, I know I would prefer about as many quality teams on the schedule as I could get with a minimal number of cupcakes to fill things out.

To each his own I suppose.

Tell that to your school's football program.

(This isn't a shot at Alabama. It just clearly illustrates the point ... only unlike much of the ACC, Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals, and the SEC has a short conference-mandated schedule.)

Right.....? Alabama plays 9 P games this year and opens with Florida State. Yeah, they are definitely dodging folks. They do play Fresno State, Colorado State and Mercer. I'd call that a cut above what your 'Cuse is playing. And btw Auburn plays nine as well and plays Clemson in the second game. That's exactly the same number of P5 schools that your Orange play and they open up with Central Connecticut, Middle Tennessee and Central Michigan before playing L.S.U..

Alabama's schedule is probably better than ours.* That's probably true. But I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not the one arguing against cupcakes. Pretending like FSU/Clemson + 3 random schools isn't cupcake-heavy is a little much.

*Although, it might not be. FSU, Clemson, Miami, LSU, Louisville, Pitt, and NCSU are all pretty good.

And building off the point that tough conference schedules necessitate reasonable OOC schedules, I'll redirect you to the basketball prowess of the ACC's membership + the fact that the virtually the entire BIG EAST's upper echelon are either on SU's ball schedule every year, or would be in a perfect world (as evidenced by the fact that they regularity appear on SU's schedule). Tell me what's necessary and occupies the rest of the schedule.

(08-29-2017 08:28 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 07:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:43 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 05:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Here's what you're missing:
1. To you're point, there's no St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova. If the schedule is already crowded enough to keep Georgetown off the schedule, why do you think adding a game against (put SEC team here) is a good idea?

2. The longer conference schedule kicks in during the 2019 season. So we're leaving off 3(!) major rivals during the short conference season. That scheduling issue will only get worse as the conference adds games to the regular season, and it would get doubly worse if we also had to anhililate a random SEC team every year.

3. Those cupcakes are there for a reason. They're rest games and easy wins. Traditional rivals (read usually elite teams) + ACC schedule (read best basketball conference in the land) + interesting OOC games (read elite teams) = meat grinder as is. Replacing a school like Cornell (rest game) w/ a team like Arkansas (winnable game, but not rest game) is insane and won't ever happen. Then look at the back story of those games. They're usually played during breaks and at Syracuse. Schools like Cornell are about as good a ticket as a school like Mississippi state would be (MSU probably has more fans, but Cornell fans don't have to travel). That travel comparison is especially true when all the students are home, so there is no student section, and the only students at the game are the local kids. Why would SU give up half a home game?

As I said, the cupcakes are important, and there is no room in the schedule. The conference-related commitments are too much as is. Adding a challenge doesn't make sense. And, trading the B1G for the SEC is a terrible trade in basketball.

Clemson/FSU football is a good analogy.

Well, I know I would prefer about as many quality teams on the schedule as I could get with a minimal number of cupcakes to fill things out.

To each his own I suppose.

Tell that to your school's football program.

(This isn't a shot at Alabama. It just clearly illustrates the point ... only unlike much of the ACC, Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals, and the SEC has a short conference-mandated schedule.)

Right.....? Alabama plays 9 P games this year and opens with Florida State. Yeah, they are definitely dodging folks. They do play Fresno State, Colorado State and Mercer. I'd call that a cut above what your 'Cuse is playing. And btw Auburn plays nine as well and plays Clemson in the second game. That's exactly the same number of P5 schools that your Orange play and they open up with Central Connecticut, Middle Tennessee and Central Michigan before playing L.S.U..

Alabama's schedule is probably better than ours.* That's probably true. But I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not the one arguing against cupcakes. Pretending like FSU/Clemson + 3 random schools isn't cupcake-heavy is a little much.

*Although, it might not be. FSU, Clemson, Miami, LSU, Louisville, Pitt, and NCSU are all pretty good.

And building off the point that tough conference schedules necessitate reasonable OOC schedules, I'll redirect you to the basketball prowess of the ACC's membership + the fact that the virtually the entire BIG EAST's upper echelon are either on SU's ball schedule every year, or would be in a perfect world (as evidenced by the fact that they regularity appear on SU's schedule). Tell me what's necessary and occupies the rest of the schedule.

You'll note I didn't enter into the basketball scheduling debate other than to point out the SEC plays 18 conference games now, so really what is the big deal over going to 20?

What prompted my response is now illustrated in bold above. Unlike the ACC Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals? They've played Ohio State, Michigan State, and now F.S.U., and I'm leaving out a couple, to open the season and all in very recent years. Your remark is rendered moot because Syracuse doesn't play any OOC rivals that are equal to those. Yet you took a shot at the Tide, a school I hate to have to defend because they are our rival.

Your remark was uncalled for, and simply flat out wrong.

That is the content to which I was replying. I don't give a hoot about basketball. We've committed funding to it and last year it paid dividends. It will take care of itself.

(08-29-2017 06:43 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 05:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 11:28 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  That's the thing. There aren't games to go around. Playing a 20 game schedule + historic rivals + a B1G game is already too much. Adding in a random SEC game would mean the loss of a historic rival, which is dumb and doesn't benefit the ACC.

But don't believe me. Look at schedules. Find a year where SU plays all its historic rivals in the same year ... and those schedules were made BEFORE the ACC lengthened its schedules ... and those schedules don't involve random SEC-ACC challenge games.

[EDIT: Nobody is proposing an extension to the regular season because it already happened within the last couple of months.]

[EDIT x2: There's a HUGE need to play cupcakes. Are you nuts?!]

1. Yes, I'm nuts. Have you not been paying attention to my posts?

2. I looked at Syracuse's schedule this year and these are the marquee match-ups...Maryland, Kansas, UConn, and I'll even stretch the definition and give you St. Bonaventure. BUT, they've got Cornell, Iona, Texas Southern, Oakland, Toledo, Colgate, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan also.

Are you telling me all those schools are traditional rivals of Syracuse? Because that's more than a little ridiculous. I figured there'd be a few more Georgetowns and St. Johns and perhaps a few more of those are scheduled in the future.

Anyway...

Point being, there's obviously enough games to go around. All you have to do is take one of those cupcakes off and play an SEC school that admittedly is not likely to be elite, but is almost certainly better than all those cupcakes.

What's wrong with that?

Here's what you're missing:
1. To you're point, there's no St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova. If the schedule is already crowded enough to keep Georgetown off the schedule, why do you think adding a game against (put SEC team here) is a good idea?

2. The longer conference schedule kicks in during the 2019 season. So we're leaving off 3(!) major rivals during the short conference season. That scheduling issue will only get worse as the conference adds games to the regular season, and it would get doubly worse if we also had to anhililate a random SEC team every year.

3. Those cupcakes are there for a reason. They're rest games and easy wins. Traditional rivals (read usually elite teams) + ACC schedule (read best basketball conference in the land) + interesting OOC games (read elite teams) = meat grinder as is. Replacing a school like Cornell (rest game) w/ a team like Arkansas (winnable game, but not rest game) is insane and won't ever happen. Then look at the back story of those games. They're usually played during breaks and at Syracuse. Schools like Cornell are about as good a ticket as a school like Mississippi state would be (MSU probably has more fans, but Cornell fans don't have to travel). That travel comparison is especially true when all the students are home, so there is no student section, and the only students at the game are the local kids. Why would SU give up half a home game?

As I said, the cupcakes are important, and there is no room in the schedule. The conference-related commitments are too much as is. Adding a challenge doesn't make sense. And, trading the B1G for the SEC is a terrible trade in basketball.

Clemson/FSU football is a good analogy.

Well, I know I would prefer about as many quality teams on the schedule as I could get with a minimal number of cupcakes to fill things out.

To each his own I suppose.

Tell that to your school's football program.

(This isn't a shot at Alabama. It just clearly illustrates the point ... only unlike much of the ACC, Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals, and the SEC has a short conference-mandated schedule.)

Well, we were talking about basketball not football. It's way easier to schedule a few extra power teams in basketball than football. That and I was advocating that the SEC take on more strong opponents. You seem to have missed that.

Anyway, I would absolutely love it if Power football schools were scheduling exclusively other Power schools, but that's a different discussion.

(08-29-2017 08:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 08:28 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 07:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:43 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Well, I know I would prefer about as many quality teams on the schedule as I could get with a minimal number of cupcakes to fill things out.

To each his own I suppose.

Tell that to your school's football program.

(This isn't a shot at Alabama. It just clearly illustrates the point ... only unlike much of the ACC, Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals, and the SEC has a short conference-mandated schedule.)

Right.....? Alabama plays 9 P games this year and opens with Florida State. Yeah, they are definitely dodging folks. They do play Fresno State, Colorado State and Mercer. I'd call that a cut above what your 'Cuse is playing. And btw Auburn plays nine as well and plays Clemson in the second game. That's exactly the same number of P5 schools that your Orange play and they open up with Central Connecticut, Middle Tennessee and Central Michigan before playing L.S.U..

Alabama's schedule is probably better than ours.* That's probably true. But I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not the one arguing against cupcakes. Pretending like FSU/Clemson + 3 random schools isn't cupcake-heavy is a little much.

*Although, it might not be. FSU, Clemson, Miami, LSU, Louisville, Pitt, and NCSU are all pretty good.

And building off the point that tough conference schedules necessitate reasonable OOC schedules, I'll redirect you to the basketball prowess of the ACC's membership + the fact that the virtually the entire BIG EAST's upper echelon are either on SU's ball schedule every year, or would be in a perfect world (as evidenced by the fact that they regularity appear on SU's schedule). Tell me what's necessary and occupies the rest of the schedule.

You'll note I didn't enter into the basketball scheduling debate other than to point out the SEC plays 18 conference games now, so really what is the big deal over going to 20?

What prompted my response is now illustrated in bold above. Unlike the ACC Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals? They've played Ohio State, Michigan State, and now F.S.U., and I'm leaving out a couple, to open the season and all in very recent years. Your remark is rendered moot because Syracuse doesn't play any OOC rivals that are equal to those. Yet you took a shot at the Tide, a school I hate to have to defend because they are our rival.

Your remark was uncalled for, and simply flat out wrong.

That is the content to which I was replying. I don't give a hoot about basketball. We've committed funding to it and last year it paid dividends. It will take care of itself.

RE Alabama's Rivals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama_Cr...e_football

Count the number of non-SEC teams that are listed as rivals. I'm sure that Alabama has OOC rivals, heck, my alma mater, PSU, is one, but they aren't 'serious' rivals as evidenced by the fact that they don't even make the wikipedia page.

RE uncalled for:
It's 'called for' because it's a great analogy. Alabama fields a prestigious program that makes a ton of money by playing home games and it in what's usually the toughest division in what's usually the toughest conference. Syracuse field a prestigious program that makes a ton of money by playing home games and its in what's usually the toughest conference. The only difference between the two is the sport. Alabama rightfully plays cupcakes to offset it's tough SEC schedule AND to give it more home games. The same is true for SU. I don't see the difference. If you're OK w/ Alabama's OOC (which I am, and I assume most people are), then how can you argue against SU's OOC schedule?

RE who SU plays:
Our OOC rivals, which are true rivalries, as opposed to games against two teams that are just good, are Georgetown, UConn, Villanova, and St. John's. Since 2000, Georgetown has been to 1 FF, Nova has been to a FF AND won a NC, and UCONN has been to a FF and won 3 NC's.

Those are the schools that SU is trying to play every year.

In what world are those schools not equal to FSU/Clemson fb? FSU has one NC in that time-frame, as does Clemson, and they both have 1 FF.

RE basketball:
If you don't at least tangentially care about it, why are you replying to a discussion that's centered around basketball schedules?

RE being flat out wrong:
I've already addressed the OOC rivalry component to it. The ACC is also adopting a 20 game conference schedule (the equivalent of a 9 game football schedule), whereas SEC football plays an 8 game schedule.

RE SU football:
I struggle to see the relevance of your SU football remarks other than to randomly take shots at SU because I, an SU fan, supported Alabama's football scheduling philosophy because it mirror's SU's basketball philosophy.*

*As well as other former BE schools (who now comprise a substantial voting bloc within the ACC).

And, unless you have a reason other than to take shots, I think that your comments are uncalled for.

(08-29-2017 08:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:43 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 05:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 03:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  1. Yes, I'm nuts. Have you not been paying attention to my posts?

2. I looked at Syracuse's schedule this year and these are the marquee match-ups...Maryland, Kansas, UConn, and I'll even stretch the definition and give you St. Bonaventure. BUT, they've got Cornell, Iona, Texas Southern, Oakland, Toledo, Colgate, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan also.

Are you telling me all those schools are traditional rivals of Syracuse? Because that's more than a little ridiculous. I figured there'd be a few more Georgetowns and St. Johns and perhaps a few more of those are scheduled in the future.

Anyway...

Point being, there's obviously enough games to go around. All you have to do is take one of those cupcakes off and play an SEC school that admittedly is not likely to be elite, but is almost certainly better than all those cupcakes.

What's wrong with that?

Here's what you're missing:
1. To you're point, there's no St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova. If the schedule is already crowded enough to keep Georgetown off the schedule, why do you think adding a game against (put SEC team here) is a good idea?

2. The longer conference schedule kicks in during the 2019 season. So we're leaving off 3(!) major rivals during the short conference season. That scheduling issue will only get worse as the conference adds games to the regular season, and it would get doubly worse if we also had to anhililate a random SEC team every year.

3. Those cupcakes are there for a reason. They're rest games and easy wins. Traditional rivals (read usually elite teams) + ACC schedule (read best basketball conference in the land) + interesting OOC games (read elite teams) = meat grinder as is. Replacing a school like Cornell (rest game) w/ a team like Arkansas (winnable game, but not rest game) is insane and won't ever happen. Then look at the back story of those games. They're usually played during breaks and at Syracuse. Schools like Cornell are about as good a ticket as a school like Mississippi state would be (MSU probably has more fans, but Cornell fans don't have to travel). That travel comparison is especially true when all the students are home, so there is no student section, and the only students at the game are the local kids. Why would SU give up half a home game?

As I said, the cupcakes are important, and there is no room in the schedule. The conference-related commitments are too much as is. Adding a challenge doesn't make sense. And, trading the B1G for the SEC is a terrible trade in basketball.

Clemson/FSU football is a good analogy.

Well, I know I would prefer about as many quality teams on the schedule as I could get with a minimal number of cupcakes to fill things out.

To each his own I suppose.

Tell that to your school's football program.

(This isn't a shot at Alabama. It just clearly illustrates the point ... only unlike much of the ACC, Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals, and the SEC has a short conference-mandated schedule.)

Well, we were talking about basketball not football. It's way easier to schedule a few extra power teams in basketball than football. That and I was advocating that the SEC take on more strong opponents. You seem to have missed that.

Anyway, I would absolutely love it if Power football schools were scheduling exclusively other Power schools, but that's a different discussion.

The sport is largely irrelevant. The circumstances are what matter, and they're the same.

And it's really not. Schools have a 27 game regular season cap (excluding tourney's).The ACC commitments count for 21 of those games. That leaves a whopping 6 games to cycle through 4 OOC rivals (UConnn, Nova, Georgetown, and St. John's). 1 of those open games will be against Cornell over the break. That would leave a whopping 1 game of flexibility and a murder's row schedule if we played the current ACC commitments + BE rivals. That's obviously not realistic as is for fatigue, home game, and schedule diversity reasons (sound familiar?), which is why we can't play all of our rivals as is.

Adding another game against a SEC team would make the situation worse.

(08-29-2017 09:59 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 08:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 08:28 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 07:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2017 06:43 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Tell that to your school's football program.

(This isn't a shot at Alabama. It just clearly illustrates the point ... only unlike much of the ACC, Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals, and the SEC has a short conference-mandated schedule.)

Right.....? Alabama plays 9 P games this year and opens with Florida State. Yeah, they are definitely dodging folks. They do play Fresno State, Colorado State and Mercer. I'd call that a cut above what your 'Cuse is playing. And btw Auburn plays nine as well and plays Clemson in the second game. That's exactly the same number of P5 schools that your Orange play and they open up with Central Connecticut, Middle Tennessee and Central Michigan before playing L.S.U..

Alabama's schedule is probably better than ours.* That's probably true. But I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not the one arguing against cupcakes. Pretending like FSU/Clemson + 3 random schools isn't cupcake-heavy is a little much.

*Although, it might not be. FSU, Clemson, Miami, LSU, Louisville, Pitt, and NCSU are all pretty good.

And building off the point that tough conference schedules necessitate reasonable OOC schedules, I'll redirect you to the basketball prowess of the ACC's membership + the fact that the virtually the entire BIG EAST's upper echelon are either on SU's ball schedule every year, or would be in a perfect world (as evidenced by the fact that they regularity appear on SU's schedule). Tell me what's necessary and occupies the rest of the schedule.

You'll note I didn't enter into the basketball scheduling debate other than to point out the SEC plays 18 conference games now, so really what is the big deal over going to 20?

What prompted my response is now illustrated in bold above. Unlike the ACC Alabama doesn't have serious OOC rivals? They've played Ohio State, Michigan State, and now F.S.U., and I'm leaving out a couple, to open the season and all in very recent years. Your remark is rendered moot because Syracuse doesn't play any OOC rivals that are equal to those. Yet you took a shot at the Tide, a school I hate to have to defend because they are our rival.

Your remark was uncalled for, and simply flat out wrong.

That is the content to which I was replying. I don't give a hoot about basketball. We've committed funding to it and last year it paid dividends. It will take care of itself.

RE Alabama's Rivals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama_Cr...e_football

Count the number of non-SEC teams that are listed as rivals. I'm sure that Alabama has OOC rivals, PSU being one, but they aren't 'serious' rivals as evidenced by the fact that they don't even make the wikipedia page.

RE uncalled for:
It's 'called for' because it's a great analogy. Alabama fields a prestigious program that makes a ton of money by playing home games and it in what's usually the toughest division in what's usually the toughest conference. Syracuse field a prestigious program that makes a ton of money by playing home games and its in what's usually the toughest conference. Te only difference between the two is the sport. Alabama rightfully plays cupcakes to offset it's tough SEC schedule AND to give it more home games. The same is true for SU. I don't see the difference. If you're OK w/ ALabama's OOC (which I am, and I assume most people are), then how can you argue against SU's OOC schedule?

RE who SU plays:
Our OOC rivals, which are true rivalries, as opposed to games against two teams that are just good, are Georgetown, UConn, Villanova, and St. John's. Since 2000, Georgetown has been to 1 FF, Nova has been to a FF AND won a NC, and UCONN has been to a FF and won 3 NC's.

Those are the schools that SU is trying to play every year.

In what world are those schools not equal to FSU/Clemson fb? FSU has one NC in that time-frame, as does Clemson, and they both have 1 FF.

RE basketball:
If you don't at least tangentially care about it, why are you replying to a discussion that's centered around basketball schedules?

RE being flat out wrong:
I've already addressed the OOC rivalry component to it. The ACC is also adopting a 20 game conference schedule (the equivalent of a 9 game football schedule), whereas SEC football plays an 8 game schedule.

RE SU football:
I struggle to see the relevance of your SU football remarks other than to randomly take shots at SU because I, an SU fan, supported Alabama's football scheduling philosophy because it mirror's SU's basketball philosophy.*

*As well as other former BE schools (who now comprise a substantial voting bloc within the ACC).

And, unless you have a reason other than to take shots, I think that your comments are uncalled for.

What's uncalled for here are pages of inane argumentation over worthless points to the end of derailing the thread. Nothing here has been worth arguing over for pages at a time, nothing.

More people would engage you in conversation except they don't want to wind up in an argument over nothing where you never stop, and end up doing just as you have done here, accusing the accuser. I clearly didn't take a shot at Syracuse, I merely pointed out that your comments against Alabama were unmerited.

Show me where I took a shot at anything other than your indefensible statement. And now you are shifting the your remarks away from the issue.
But I am going to tell you now that if you get into more of this kind of stuff for pages at the time you will be warned.

If you have anything else to say put it in a PM.

You referenced Alabama football schedule and the SEC's scheduling of 8 conference games. The thread is about the Big 10 moving to 20 conference games. Discussing the ACC and SEC are tangential but somewhat related to the topic if it remains about basketball. I replied to the football schedule remark for two reasons. Alabama had 9 P games the same as Syracuse, and it was off topic.