http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educa...4adec.html



MO State is growing, Mizzou is declining. With only 1 FBS team in the state, it seems now would be the time for MSU to go FBS. Seems a large state school should be in a conference like CUSA or SB rather than playing a bunch of small private schools like Valpo, Evansville, and Drake.

Just in terms of enrollment, MSU is within a few thousand students of Arkansas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State

MSU has a larger enrollment than many regional FBS schools (within 500 miles) including Tulsa, SMU, TCU, Memphis, Northern Illinois, Louisiana Tech, Ole Miss, Western Kentucky, UL Monroe, and Arkansas State.

Interesting. Would you still play your old rivals out of conference?

(08-21-2017 07:04 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Interesting. Would you still play your old rivals out of conference?

what rivals? Creighton and Wichita state both left the MVC. I think most MSU fans could care less about the remaining MVC members. I mean UNI is decent but not much of a real rival, and our strongest remaining rival, SIU, hasn't been good in a decade.

Would you play SIU OOC if they got better in basketball?

(08-21-2017 07:09 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Would you play SIU OOC if they got better in basketball?

Sure. Could become a good rivalry again. Plus if they keep Barry Hinson around a few more years, that will keep it interesting as he was the MSU coach for many years.

(08-21-2017 07:06 PM)msu_bears Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 07:04 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Interesting. Would you still play your old rivals out of conference?

what rivals? Creighton and Wichita state both left the MVC. I think most MSU fans could care less about the remaining MVC members. I mean UNI is decent but not much of a real rival, and our strongest remaining rival, SIU, hasn't been good in a decade.

KU and KSU have only limited reciprocity for Missouri students. Do those Big 12 institutions benefit or others like Iowa St, Okie St, Nebraska gain more Missouri residents? How about UMKC or UMSL?

I don't see this taking off.

Missouri is a big state to have only one major public school so it's natural for MOSU to step up. They seem to fit easily in that mold of midwestern "State" schools like OSU, KSU, CSU, ISU etc

(08-21-2017 08:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Missouri is a big state to have only one major public school so it's natural for MOSU to step up. They seem to fit easily in that mold of midwestern "State" schools like OSU, KSU, CSU, ISU etc

Expect we don't have the land grant status those do.

Mo St should be in the western half of a split CUSA as an FBS team. That would be any Mo St President's goal and plan.

Mo St, JMU, Jax St, and EKU should each announce FBS as independents, where they can schedule each other, and stay in their same leagues for olympics. Sam Houston St and Lamar could do the same but they would have to switch to the WAC for Olympics.

I don't really see it. They have not been competitive among their peers.

(08-21-2017 08:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Missouri is a big state to have only one major public school so it's natural for MOSU to step up. They seem to fit easily in that mold of midwestern "State" schools like OSU, KSU, CSU, ISU etc

Well, do you think Texas St fits the mold too?

The Valley should invite UAB, USM, MTSU, WKU, LTU, UNT, Rice, and NMSU.

UTEP and UTSA join the Sun Belt.

James Madison, App State, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina join C-USA.

Oral Roberts and the four Dakota schools join the WAC.

Bradley, Drake, Evansville, Indiana State, Valparaiso, and Loyola all join the Summit.

(08-21-2017 10:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 08:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Missouri is a big state to have only one major public school so it's natural for MOSU to step up. They seem to fit easily in that mold of midwestern "State" schools like OSU, KSU, CSU, ISU etc

Well, do you think Texas St fits the mold too?

Not really. Despite the name, TXST is pretty low on the totem pole in TX both academically and athletically

public school wise they're maybe 7th or 8th in the state depending on if you accept that UTSA has already passed them or just will very soon.

Perspective from a St. Louis native: I doubt even the semi-recent events in Columbia will do much to change the long-term perception of MSU vs Mizzou. The latter is the dominant university in the state with an alumni base that dwarfs that of the former, in addition to state law that prevents MO State from offering competing programs as a condition of changing their name from Southwest Missouri State to what it is today.

That being said, Missouri State is on the rise. I remember going to what would become my high school when my older sister went there, they'd hang banners second semester and show where seniors were going to college. MSU would usually take up a banner while Mizzou would usually be four (we were the biggest feeder from them as a school of over two thousand); by my senior year six or so years later it turned to two to three and a half. It helps their cause that the second-to-last governor went to Missouri State while the current one went to Duke and probably has little allegiance to Mizzou (and politically doesn't side with them). But that doesn't necessarily translate to athletic success, their football team has long underachieved. If they got to the upper echelon of the Valley I don't think it's unreasonable to consider them a contender for the MAC if we had to backfill.

(08-21-2017 10:28 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 10:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 08:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Missouri is a big state to have only one major public school so it's natural for MOSU to step up. They seem to fit easily in that mold of midwestern "State" schools like OSU, KSU, CSU, ISU etc

Well, do you think Texas St fits the mold too?

Not really. Despite the name, TXST is pretty low on the totem pole in TX both academically and athletically

public school wise they're maybe 7th or 8th in the state depending on if you accept that UTSA has already passed them or just will very soon.

not exactly an even comparison when you are looking at states that have from 3 (Iowa) to 13 public (Missouri) universities Vs the 34+ in Texas

and UTSA is a long way from passing Texas State......Texas State has more difficult admissions standards (not by a great deal, but only because UTSA just dramatically raised theirs a few years back) and Texas State had a much higher graduation rate


Texas State is also set as a residential campus that is utilizing those resources at a very high level and their enrollment growth will allow them to start incrementally bumping up admissions while maintaining enrollment while UTSA lost a couple of thousand students in enrollment when they raised their admissions (still below Texas State) and they have yet to recover

and they do not have near the residential campus infrastructure that Texas State has

Texas State is in a position to concentrate on academics into the near and long term future while not messing up overall enrollment and the economies of scale from that while UTSA will have to plow money into things besides academics to attract the top academic students

and the issue with that is those types of things (like dorms and other campus life amenities) are not state funded so it takes away from resources that could be directed as the university sees fit to academics and to build out those amenities you have to make the investment ahead of time and wait for the longer term payoff

while being able to build out academics can both bring in additional state formula funding and it can attract students for an immediate payoff in both enrollment and student metrics

(08-21-2017 10:21 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The Valley should invite UAB, USM, MTSU, WKU, LTU, UNT, Rice, and NMSU.

Why doesn't the valley recruit 6 MAC schools then upgrade ISU, UNI, MoSt, SIU to FBS.


West
Northern Iowa
Missouri St
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Western Michigan

East
Ball State
Toledo
Miami
Kent State
Ohio

10 FBS schools and 16 for basketball in the MVC. It would be the king FB/BB conference of the Midwest after the B1G.

(08-21-2017 10:50 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Perspective from a St. Louis native: I doubt even the semi-recent events in Columbia will do much to change the long-term perception of MSU vs Mizzou. The latter is the dominant university in the state with an alumni base that dwarfs that of the former, in addition to state law that prevents MO State from offering competing programs as a condition of changing their name from Southwest Missouri State to what it is today.

That being said, Missouri State is on the rise. I remember going to what would become my high school when my older sister went there, they'd hang banners second semester and show where seniors were going to college. MSU would usually take up a banner while Mizzou would usually be four (we were the biggest feeder from them as a school of over two thousand); by my senior year six or so years later it turned to two to three and a half. It helps their cause that the second-to-last governor went to Missouri State while the current one went to Duke and probably has little allegiance to Mizzou (and politically doesn't side with them). But that doesn't necessarily translate to athletic success, their football team has long underachieved. If they got to the upper echelon of the Valley I don't think it's unreasonable to consider them a contender for the MAC if we had to backfill.

Pretty much spot on IMO as an alum as well.

(08-21-2017 11:20 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 10:21 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The Valley should invite UAB, USM, MTSU, WKU, LTU, UNT, Rice, and NMSU.

Why doesn't the valley recruit 6 MAC schools then upgrade ISU, UNI, MoSt, SIU to FBS.


West
Northern Iowa
Missouri St
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Western Michigan

East
Ball State
Toledo
Miami
Kent State
Ohio

10 FBS schools and 16 for basketball in the MVC. It would be the king FB/BB conference of the Midwest after the B1G.

The Valley needs eight existing FBS schools to become a FBS Conference per NCAA regulations. Obviously if their own members can get waivers and complete their transition as an independent prior to raiding another conference, then it will make the process more efficient.

Also, if this is what's left of the MAC:

Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, Kent, Bowling Green

Who is leaving C-USA for that?

(08-21-2017 07:06 PM)msu_bears Wrote:  

(08-21-2017 07:04 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Interesting. Would you still play your old rivals out of conference?

what rivals? Creighton and Wichita state both left the MVC. I think most MSU fans could care less about the remaining MVC members. I mean UNI is decent but not much of a real rival, and our strongest remaining rival, SIU, hasn't been good in a decade.

Lol, sounds like the problem is that MSU has not been any good in a long time. Maybe If MSU was decent, then UNI would be a rival.