Not sure how to quantify "intriguing" in a subjective list but Pat Forde doesn't think too much of Mike White or Brent Stockstill. The lead in paragraph even mentions that 4 of the top 5 and 7 of the top 10 in passing efficiency are back (Mike White was 3rd) but is not included.
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25 TOp QB;s to Watch in 2017
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(08-14-2017 05:45 PM)Franko Wrote:  Not sure how to quantify "intriguing" in a subjective list but Pat Forde doesn't think too much of Mike White or Brent Stockstill. The lead in paragraph even mentions that 4 of the top 5 and 7 of the top 10 in passing efficiency are back (Mike White was 3rd) but is not included.
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25 TOp QB;s to Watch in 2017
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What do you expect? This is the same guy who said we would never have a winning season in FBS, he obviously has something against us...I mean he listed a part time started for Miami of Ohio Gus Ragland....

(08-15-2017 07:09 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(08-14-2017 05:45 PM)Franko Wrote:  Not sure how to quantify "intriguing" in a subjective list but Pat Forde doesn't think too much of Mike White or Brent Stockstill. The lead in paragraph even mentions that 4 of the top 5 and 7 of the top 10 in passing efficiency are back (Mike White was 3rd) but is not included.
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25 TOp QB;s to Watch in 2017
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What do you expect? This is the same guy who said we would never have a winning season in FBS, he obviously has something against us...I mean he listed a part time started for Miami of Ohio Gus Ragland....

He's a d-bag and a shill for the ESPN and the SEC.

How many of these teams on the list do you think would trade their QB in a hot second for either of our guys?

With all that said, this probably isn't a list you want to be on anyway. I know one place you and I can agree on. I don't give a damn who is "intriguing." All I care about is do they win games.

Most intriguing. CUSA QBs dont really move the needle.

And a guy from Miami Ohio does move the needle? Sorry bs excuse....This guy does not matter anyways...The only guy that matter Phil Steele gives both White and Stockstill respect in his preseason magazine...Forde is a nobody...

(08-15-2017 02:55 PM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  And a guy from Miami Ohio does move the needle? Sorry bs excuse....This guy does not matter anyways...The only guy that matter Phil Steele gives both White and Stockstill respect in his preseason magazine...Forde is a nobody...

Well, the story at least has some meat to it with replacing the QB on an 0-6 team and then going 6-0. What is intriguing about White...well, he's a really good mid major QB?

Of course, Steele's magazine is about who the "best" QBs are so they should be mentioned.

Its not intriguing to list a QB who ranked top 5 nationally in just about every passing category when every QB in top 20 returning was listed minus White? Its not intriguing to list a guy who has NFL scouts on notice to see what he does this year?.....We get you despise WKU but come on, you are grasping for straws here...

Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


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(08-16-2017 07:56 AM)SigNuTopper Wrote:  Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


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Agreed, but this "ranking" isn't about who is best. It's about the most interesting (whatever that means).

If there was a way to make a subjective ranking more subjective, Forde apparently just found it.

(08-16-2017 07:56 AM)SigNuTopper Wrote:  Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


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Jalen Hurns, Kyle Allen, Quinton Flowers, Jake Browning, Trace McSorley, JT Barrett, Wilton Speight, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Llamar Jackson...

in no particular order.

Trace McSorley, Wilton Speight, Kyle Allen. LMAO

(08-16-2017 08:42 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 07:56 AM)SigNuTopper Wrote:  Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


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Jalen Hurns, Kyle Allen, Quinton Flowers, Jake Browning, Trace McSorley, JT Barrett, Wilton Speight, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Llamar Jackson...

in no particular order.

Jalen Hurns and Llamar Jackson would not start over anyone since those two players don't exist...

(08-16-2017 06:51 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  Its not intriguing to list a QB who ranked top 5 nationally in just about every passing category when every QB in top 20 returning was listed minus White? Its not intriguing to list a guy who has NFL scouts on notice to see what he does this year?.....We get you despise WKU but come on, you are grasping for straws here...

I don't give two ***** about Western Kentucky; why would I despite them? You guys are crying over nothing. The article isn't listing the "best" QBs.

(08-16-2017 07:56 AM)SigNuTopper Wrote:  Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


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I would not consider White and Stockstill as top 10 QBs in the entire NCAA. Maybe White edges in there, but not Stockstill. They are good, but remember, they play in CUSA.

My top 10 would probably be:

Darnold
Josh Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Stidham
Rudolph
Falk
Francois
Mayfield
Browning

They would probably be in the group with:

Fitzgerald
Ferguson
Solomon
Flowers
Kyle Allen

(08-16-2017 10:53 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 07:56 AM)SigNuTopper Wrote:  Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


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I would not consider White and Stockstill as top 10 QBs in the entire NCAA. Maybe White edges in there, but not Stockstill. They are good, but remember, they play in CUSA.

My top 10 would probably be:

Darnold
Josh Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Stidham
Rudolph
Falk
Francois
Mayfield
Browning

They would probably be in the group with:

Fitzgerald
Ferguson
Solomon
Flowers
Kyle Allen

Whether either are in the top 10 or not is debatable. Consider the following Paul Rosen example since you listed him. The year that Brent put up the huge numbers as a freshman two years ago, Rosen was almost unanimously the the QB that was named freshman All-America. I actually took the time to compare their two seasons.

Brent's numbers were much better than Rosen's across every statistical category. But then I went and looked at who they played. You can say all day long that well because one kid is at a P5 he's automatically better because he had to play better competition. The reality that year was that Pac 12 defenses were terrible. There wasn't a single Pac 12 defense in the top 30 in total defense and the best defense in the league UCLA didn't even face that year. BYU was the only legitimate good defense that Rosen had to go up against and that was a non-conference game against a non P5. Rosen faced four defenses ranked 109 or worse. He faced six that were 85 or worse and faced eight that 64 or worse in total defense.

Further, I compared the rankings to defenses Rosen faced against the defenses Stockstill faced. On average, Stockstill faced defenses that were ranked something like 20 to 25 points better (can't recall the actual numbers). So, Stockstill put up bigger numbers and did so against defenses that were statistically much better than what Rosen faced. Yet...we know how the story ends. Both got hurt last year and I didn't take the time to compare defenses, but Brent still put up better numbers last year too.

This is the fallacy of college football. There are a few elite programs (less than 10) that really do have much better players at every position. All the others just ride the coattails and get automatic elevation because of conference they reside in. When non power programs recruit well (just barely under the radar), develop players the right way, and build stability within the program, they can produce players and teams that are legitimately as good as most P5 programs. Of course the rub here is that it is much harder to do at a G5 than a P5 going up against all the inherent advantages those schools have, but it doesn't mean that its a given.

(08-16-2017 11:24 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 10:53 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 07:56 AM)SigNuTopper Wrote:  Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


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I would not consider White and Stockstill as top 10 QBs in the entire NCAA. Maybe White edges in there, but not Stockstill. They are good, but remember, they play in CUSA.

My top 10 would probably be:

Darnold
Josh Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Stidham
Rudolph
Falk
Francois
Mayfield
Browning

They would probably be in the group with:

Fitzgerald
Ferguson
Solomon
Flowers
Kyle Allen

Whether either are in the top 10 or not is debatable. Consider the following Paul Rosen example since you listed him. The year that Brent put up the huge numbers as a freshman two years ago, Rosen was almost unanimously the the QB that was named freshman All-America. I actually took the time to compare their two seasons.

Brent's numbers were much better than Rosen's across every statistical category. But then I went and looked at who they played. You can say all day long that well because one kid is at a P5 he's automatically better because he had to play better competition. The reality that year was that Pac 12 defenses were terrible. There wasn't a single Pac 12 defense in the top 30 in total defense and the best defense in the league UCLA didn't even face that year. BYU was the only legitimate good defense that Rosen had to go up against and that was a non-conference game against a non P5. Rosen faced four defenses ranked 109 or worse. He faced six that were 85 or worse and faced eight that 64 or worse in total defense.

Further, I compared the rankings to defenses Rosen faced against the defenses Stockstill faced. On average, Stockstill faced defenses that were ranked something like 20 to 25 points better (can't recall the actual numbers). So, Stockstill put up bigger numbers and did so against defenses that were statistically much better than what Rosen faced. Yet...we know how the story ends. Both got hurt last year and I didn't take the time to compare defenses, but Brent still put up better numbers last year too.

This is the fallacy of college football. There are a few elite programs (less than 10) that really do have much better players at every position. All the others just ride the coattails and get automatic elevation because of conference they reside in. When non power programs recruit well (just barely under the radar), develop players the right way, and build stability within the program, they can produce players and teams that are legitimately as good as most P5 programs. Of course the rub here is that it is much harder to do at a G5 than a P5 going up against all the inherent advantages those schools have, but it doesn't mean that its a given.

What did you base your defensive ratings on? If it was F+/-. I would give credit to that analysis. If it is simply yards given up, I would not. I would be surprised if Stockstill faced anywhere close to the level of defense as Rosen; even with Pac 12 defenses being bad. CUSA defensive are pathetic.

(08-16-2017 10:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 06:51 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  Its not intriguing to list a QB who ranked top 5 nationally in just about every passing category when every QB in top 20 returning was listed minus White? Its not intriguing to list a guy who has NFL scouts on notice to see what he does this year?.....We get you despise WKU but come on, you are grasping for straws here...

I don't give two ***** about Western Kentucky; why would I despite them? You guys are crying over nothing. The article isn't listing the "best" QBs.

Tell us how you really feel! For someone who doesn't care about WKU, you sure post a lot about us...

(08-16-2017 12:13 PM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 10:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 06:51 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  Its not intriguing to list a QB who ranked top 5 nationally in just about every passing category when every QB in top 20 returning was listed minus White? Its not intriguing to list a guy who has NFL scouts on notice to see what he does this year?.....We get you despise WKU but come on, you are grasping for straws here...

I don't give two ***** about Western Kentucky; why would I despite them? You guys are crying over nothing. The article isn't listing the "best" QBs.

Tell us how you really feel! For someone who doesn't care about WKU, you sure post a lot about us...

Like 4-5 times in history?

(08-16-2017 12:12 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:24 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 10:53 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 07:56 AM)SigNuTopper Wrote:  Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


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I would not consider White and Stockstill as top 10 QBs in the entire NCAA. Maybe White edges in there, but not Stockstill. They are good, but remember, they play in CUSA.

My top 10 would probably be:

Darnold
Josh Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Stidham
Rudolph
Falk
Francois
Mayfield
Browning

They would probably be in the group with:

Fitzgerald
Ferguson
Solomon
Flowers
Kyle Allen

Whether either are in the top 10 or not is debatable. Consider the following Paul Rosen example since you listed him. The year that Brent put up the huge numbers as a freshman two years ago, Rosen was almost unanimously the the QB that was named freshman All-America. I actually took the time to compare their two seasons.

Brent's numbers were much better than Rosen's across every statistical category. But then I went and looked at who they played. You can say all day long that well because one kid is at a P5 he's automatically better because he had to play better competition. The reality that year was that Pac 12 defenses were terrible. There wasn't a single Pac 12 defense in the top 30 in total defense and the best defense in the league UCLA didn't even face that year. BYU was the only legitimate good defense that Rosen had to go up against and that was a non-conference game against a non P5. Rosen faced four defenses ranked 109 or worse. He faced six that were 85 or worse and faced eight that 64 or worse in total defense.

Further, I compared the rankings to defenses Rosen faced against the defenses Stockstill faced. On average, Stockstill faced defenses that were ranked something like 20 to 25 points better (can't recall the actual numbers). So, Stockstill put up bigger numbers and did so against defenses that were statistically much better than what Rosen faced. Yet...we know how the story ends. Both got hurt last year and I didn't take the time to compare defenses, but Brent still put up better numbers last year too.

This is the fallacy of college football. There are a few elite programs (less than 10) that really do have much better players at every position. All the others just ride the coattails and get automatic elevation because of conference they reside in. When non power programs recruit well (just barely under the radar), develop players the right way, and build stability within the program, they can produce players and teams that are legitimately as good as most P5 programs. Of course the rub here is that it is much harder to do at a G5 than a P5 going up against all the inherent advantages those schools have, but it doesn't mean that its a given.

What did you base your defensive ratings on? If it was F+/-. I would give credit to that analysis. If it is simply yards given up, I would not. I would be surprised if Stockstill faced anywhere close to the level of defense as Rosen; even with Pac 12 defenses being bad. CUSA defensive are pathetic.

Here you go using F +/-

Cumulatively speaking the defenses Rosen faced averaged 67.25. The defenses Stockstill faced averaged 66.4

Top 25 Defenses Faced
Rosen = 1
Stockstill = 3

Top 50 Defenses Faced
Rosen = 4
Stockstill = 4

Number of 100+ Defenses Faced
Stockstill = 3
Rosen = 3*

Best defense faced:
Rosen (#18)
Stockstill (#1)

*Includes the worst defense faced which I excluded from the average listed at the top. I removed the worst defense Rosen had to face from his average in an effort to be fair, because Stockstill got to play a I-AA game. If I had included it, Rosen's average defense faced would have been 70.8. Of note, Stockstill played against three defenses that were ranked better than any defense that Rosen faced.

Below are the defensive rankings using F +/-

Rosen/Stockstill
77/--
114*/1
31/92
81/15
112/12
43/60
84/102
89/80
103/42
74/76
18/120
41/104
54/93

(08-16-2017 01:24 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 12:12 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 11:24 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 10:53 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(08-16-2017 07:56 AM)SigNuTopper Wrote:  Stockstill and White are both Top 10 QBs. Complete farce by Forde. How many QBs on that list would start over them? I'd wager maybe no more than a few.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would not consider White and Stockstill as top 10 QBs in the entire NCAA. Maybe White edges in there, but not Stockstill. They are good, but remember, they play in CUSA.

My top 10 would probably be:

Darnold
Josh Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Stidham
Rudolph
Falk
Francois
Mayfield
Browning

They would probably be in the group with:

Fitzgerald
Ferguson
Solomon
Flowers
Kyle Allen

Whether either are in the top 10 or not is debatable. Consider the following Paul Rosen example since you listed him. The year that Brent put up the huge numbers as a freshman two years ago, Rosen was almost unanimously the the QB that was named freshman All-America. I actually took the time to compare their two seasons.

Brent's numbers were much better than Rosen's across every statistical category. But then I went and looked at who they played. You can say all day long that well because one kid is at a P5 he's automatically better because he had to play better competition. The reality that year was that Pac 12 defenses were terrible. There wasn't a single Pac 12 defense in the top 30 in total defense and the best defense in the league UCLA didn't even face that year. BYU was the only legitimate good defense that Rosen had to go up against and that was a non-conference game against a non P5. Rosen faced four defenses ranked 109 or worse. He faced six that were 85 or worse and faced eight that 64 or worse in total defense.

Further, I compared the rankings to defenses Rosen faced against the defenses Stockstill faced. On average, Stockstill faced defenses that were ranked something like 20 to 25 points better (can't recall the actual numbers). So, Stockstill put up bigger numbers and did so against defenses that were statistically much better than what Rosen faced. Yet...we know how the story ends. Both got hurt last year and I didn't take the time to compare defenses, but Brent still put up better numbers last year too.

This is the fallacy of college football. There are a few elite programs (less than 10) that really do have much better players at every position. All the others just ride the coattails and get automatic elevation because of conference they reside in. When non power programs recruit well (just barely under the radar), develop players the right way, and build stability within the program, they can produce players and teams that are legitimately as good as most P5 programs. Of course the rub here is that it is much harder to do at a G5 than a P5 going up against all the inherent advantages those schools have, but it doesn't mean that its a given.

What did you base your defensive ratings on? If it was F+/-. I would give credit to that analysis. If it is simply yards given up, I would not. I would be surprised if Stockstill faced anywhere close to the level of defense as Rosen; even with Pac 12 defenses being bad. CUSA defensive are pathetic.

Here you go using F +/-

Cumulatively speaking the defenses Rosen faced averaged 67.25. The defenses Stockstill faced averaged 66.4

Top 25 Defenses Faced
Rosen = 1
Stockstill = 3

Top 50 Defenses Faced
Rosen = 4
Stockstill = 4

Number of 100+ Defenses Faced
Stockstill = 3
Rosen = 3*

Best defense faced:
Rosen (#18)
Stockstill (#1)

*Includes the worst defense faced which I excluded from the average listed at the top. I removed the worst defense Rosen had to face from his average in an effort to be fair, because Stockstill got to play a I-AA game. If I had included it, Rosen's average defense faced would have been 70.8. Of note, Stockstill played against three defenses that were ranked better than any defense that Rosen faced.

Below are the defensive rankings using F +/-

Rosen/Stockstill
77/--
114*/1
31/92
81/15
112/12
43/60
84/102
89/80
103/42
74/76
18/120
41/104
54/93

Fair enough. That is good research. Not that I think Stockstill is better than Rosen, but it at least provides a reasonable argument.