(10-08-2017 03:51 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  WVU "should" be with VT. That was a classic game they played the first week of the season. Obviously the rivalry with Pitt would be welcomed by both.

Just don't know if there's room at the ACC inn.

My thoughts are that the ACC would be at 16 and could go to a Quad or pod structure to keep rivalries together while at the same time creating 2 divisions to fulfill the NCAA requirement of division champions.

What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

(10-09-2017 06:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

Why?

(10-09-2017 07:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

Why?

To be precise, why would any P-5 team want to go to the B12? I would think that the ACC GOR is more ironclad than the B12 GOR since we are talking about a lot more potential revenue with the ACCN.

(10-09-2017 06:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

It probably means 10 of the 15 schools have a landing spot elsewhere where the can make more money.

If the SEC had its eyes on two schools and so did the Big Ten, a block of 6 of the remaining 11 might find the Big 12 preferable to staying with the other 5.

The trouble is that the 5 schools left out and without a conference because the other 10 disbanded it would have a strong legal case for damages as a result of collusion. There would certainly be a paper trail a mile long that could be accessed with a simple public records request (unless you let privates like Duke and Miami be the ringleaders and go between agents)

(10-09-2017 07:56 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 07:48 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

Why?

To be precise, why would any P-5 team want to go to the B12? I would think that the ACC GOR is more ironclad than the B12 GOR since we are talking about a lot more potential revenue with the ACCN.

The ACC GOR is more durable because of the extended duration of it and because at the present there aren't any ACC schools with desires to be free of the conference.

The Big 12 GOR is 8 years from expiration and there are those who do not desire to extend it. So they will be negotiating their way out at the latest in 2021-2 and at the earliest in 2019-20. The buyout is doable starting at the end of the 2022-3 season.

Does anyone know how many votes it takes to extend the Big 12 GOR? If a school votes no do they have a legal case that they shouldn't be forced to abide by the GOR?

(10-09-2017 08:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

It probably means 10 of the 15 schools have a landing spot elsewhere where the can make more money.

If the SEC had its eyes on two schools and so did the Big Ten, a block of 6 of the remaining 11 might find the Big 12 preferable to staying with the other 5.

The trouble is that the 5 schools left out and without a conference because the other 10 disbanded it would have a strong legal case for damages as a result of collusion. There would certainly be a paper trail a mile long that could be accessed with a simple public records request (unless you let privates like Duke and Miami be the ringleaders and go between agents)

I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American.

(10-09-2017 08:47 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does anyone know how many votes it takes to extend the Big 12 GOR? If a school votes no do they have a legal case that they shouldn't be forced to abide by the GOR?

It would have to be unanimous, a conference (Big 12 or other) would not have the legal authority to maintain ownership of a member institution's media rights without the approval of said member.

(10-10-2017 02:28 AM)clpp01 Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 08:47 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does anyone know how many votes it takes to extend the Big 12 GOR? If a school votes no do they have a legal case that they shouldn't be forced to abide by the GOR?

It would have to be unanimous, a conference (Big 12 or other) would not have the legal authority to maintain ownership of a member institution's media rights without the approval of said member.

The B12 GoR was posted here some time ago. I don't remember any provisions for extending the GoR. It was publicized as an extension but, in fact, I think this GoR replaced the previous one.

IMO, the GoR was the sticking point during the B12 expansion fiasco. Fox/ESPN didn't want to give up more money unless they knew certain schools were going to be around long enough for them to recover their money. The only way to ensure that was to extend the GoR.

(10-09-2017 10:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 08:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

It probably means 10 of the 15 schools have a landing spot elsewhere where the can make more money.

If the SEC had its eyes on two schools and so did the Big Ten, a block of 6 of the remaining 11 might find the Big 12 preferable to staying with the other 5.

The trouble is that the 5 schools left out and without a conference because the other 10 disbanded it would have a strong legal case for damages as a result of collusion. There would certainly be a paper trail a mile long that could be accessed with a simple public records request (unless you let privates like Duke and Miami be the ringleaders and go between agents)

I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American.

The ACC, without those 4 schools is still a better league than the Big 12 without the Texlahoma 4. I see the ACC raiding the Big 12, possibly taking all 6, as more probable.

About the only way I see ACC schools joining the Big 12 is if Florida St and their likeminded compatriots who are not Big Ten or SEC targets, strike up a deal with the schools who are on those radars in a plan to disband the league and land the major players in higher paying leagues.

As the paradigm shifts away from cable subscribership I think the SEC might some day see the advantage of adding programs like Florida St and Clemson because overall viewership and popularity is more important. in the future I don't think it will matter so much where the fans are just how many of them are there.

(10-10-2017 09:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 10:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 08:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

It probably means 10 of the 15 schools have a landing spot elsewhere where the can make more money.

If the SEC had its eyes on two schools and so did the Big Ten, a block of 6 of the remaining 11 might find the Big 12 preferable to staying with the other 5.

The trouble is that the 5 schools left out and without a conference because the other 10 disbanded it would have a strong legal case for damages as a result of collusion. There would certainly be a paper trail a mile long that could be accessed with a simple public records request (unless you let privates like Duke and Miami be the ringleaders and go between agents)

I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American.

The ACC, without those 4 schools is still a better league than the Big 12 without the Texlahoma 4. I see the ACC raiding the Big 12, possibly taking all 6, as more probable.

About the only way I see ACC schools joining the Big 12 is if Florida St and their likeminded compatriots who are not Big Ten or SEC targets, strike up a deal with the schools who are on those radars in a plan to disband the league and land the major players in higher paying leagues.

As the paradigm shifts away from cable subscribership I think the SEC might some day see the advantage of adding programs like Florida St and Clemson because overall viewership and popularity is more important. in the future I don't think it will matter so much where the fans are just how many of them are there.

The ACC GoR makes this scenario implausible in the next 10 years, but here's how it might look:

ACC
East: Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest
North: Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Florida State, Miami-FL, TCU
West: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Louisville

Big Ten
East: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State
North: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
South: Maryland, North Carolina, Rutgers, Virginia
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Florida, Georgia, NC State, South Carolina
North: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: Arkansas, LSU, Missouri, Texas A&M

For this to occur, the Big 12 would have to survive the expiration of their current GoR intact and adopt a new one that lasts until around the time the ACC GoR expires in 2035-36. The NC and VA schools wouldn't defect too far before then, if at all.

(10-11-2017 09:15 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 09:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 10:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 08:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 06:44 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  What would it take to bust the ACC GOR? Would there be any value in a mass defection to the remnants of the Big 12?

It probably means 10 of the 15 schools have a landing spot elsewhere where the can make more money.

If the SEC had its eyes on two schools and so did the Big Ten, a block of 6 of the remaining 11 might find the Big 12 preferable to staying with the other 5.

The trouble is that the 5 schools left out and without a conference because the other 10 disbanded it would have a strong legal case for damages as a result of collusion. There would certainly be a paper trail a mile long that could be accessed with a simple public records request (unless you let privates like Duke and Miami be the ringleaders and go between agents)

I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American.

The ACC, without those 4 schools is still a better league than the Big 12 without the Texlahoma 4. I see the ACC raiding the Big 12, possibly taking all 6, as more probable.

About the only way I see ACC schools joining the Big 12 is if Florida St and their likeminded compatriots who are not Big Ten or SEC targets, strike up a deal with the schools who are on those radars in a plan to disband the league and land the major players in higher paying leagues.

As the paradigm shifts away from cable subscribership I think the SEC might some day see the advantage of adding programs like Florida St and Clemson because overall viewership and popularity is more important. in the future I don't think it will matter so much where the fans are just how many of them are there.

The ACC GoR makes this scenario implausible in the next 10 years, but here's how it might look:

ACC
East: Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest
North: Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Florida State, Miami-FL, TCU
West: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Louisville

Big Ten
East: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State
North: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
South: Maryland, North Carolina, Rutgers, Virginia
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Florida, Georgia, NC State, South Carolina
North: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: Arkansas, LSU, Missouri, Texas A&M

For this to occur, the Big 12 would have to survive the expiration of their current GoR intact and adopt a new one that lasts until around the time the ACC GoR expires in 2035-36. The NC and VA schools wouldn't defect too far before then, if at all.

The ACC GOR runs through 2036. No ACC schools want to move, nor will they.

The thread was not about ACC schools leaving, but about adding schools to the ACC. Specifically, some Big 12 schools in Texas. Though I also think WVU would be a good candidate.

(10-10-2017 02:28 AM)clpp01 Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 08:47 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Does anyone know how many votes it takes to extend the Big 12 GOR? If a school votes no do they have a legal case that they shouldn't be forced to abide by the GOR?

It would have to be unanimous, a conference (Big 12 or other) would not have the legal authority to maintain ownership of a member institution's media rights without the approval of said member.

Right. No school is bound by the GOR unless every other school in the conference also surrenders its media rights. Either everyone agrees to be handcuffed together, or no one is bound.

That means that we will get the next indicator about the Big 12 around 18-24 months before the expiration of the current GOR. The commissioner will start internal discussions about extending it. If every member's reaction is, "We'll sign an extension or a new GOR as long as the TV money is good," then there's no problem. But if there are members who won't commit to that, then word will leak out and people will start to think that someone is shopping for a new conference.

(10-11-2017 10:10 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 09:15 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 09:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 10:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 08:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It probably means 10 of the 15 schools have a landing spot elsewhere where the can make more money.

If the SEC had its eyes on two schools and so did the Big Ten, a block of 6 of the remaining 11 might find the Big 12 preferable to staying with the other 5.

The trouble is that the 5 schools left out and without a conference because the other 10 disbanded it would have a strong legal case for damages as a result of collusion. There would certainly be a paper trail a mile long that could be accessed with a simple public records request (unless you let privates like Duke and Miami be the ringleaders and go between agents)

I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American.

The ACC, without those 4 schools is still a better league than the Big 12 without the Texlahoma 4. I see the ACC raiding the Big 12, possibly taking all 6, as more probable.

About the only way I see ACC schools joining the Big 12 is if Florida St and their likeminded compatriots who are not Big Ten or SEC targets, strike up a deal with the schools who are on those radars in a plan to disband the league and land the major players in higher paying leagues.

As the paradigm shifts away from cable subscribership I think the SEC might some day see the advantage of adding programs like Florida St and Clemson because overall viewership and popularity is more important. in the future I don't think it will matter so much where the fans are just how many of them are there.

The ACC GoR makes this scenario implausible in the next 10 years, but here's how it might look:

ACC
East: Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest
North: Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Florida State, Miami-FL, TCU
West: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Louisville

Big Ten
East: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State
North: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
South: Maryland, North Carolina, Rutgers, Virginia
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Florida, Georgia, NC State, South Carolina
North: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: Arkansas, LSU, Missouri, Texas A&M

For this to occur, the Big 12 would have to survive the expiration of their current GoR intact and adopt a new one that lasts until around the time the ACC GoR expires in 2035-36. The NC and VA schools wouldn't defect too far before then, if at all.

The ACC GOR runs through 2036. No ACC schools want to move, nor will they.

Note the other bolded part.

(10-11-2017 11:07 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  The thread was not about ACC schools leaving, but about adding schools to the ACC. Specifically, some Big 12 schools in Texas. Though I also think WVU would be a good candidate.

Read the posts again......


Pasted from another post:

"I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American."



Apology accepted.

(10-11-2017 12:57 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 10:10 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 09:15 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 09:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(10-09-2017 10:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American.

The ACC, without those 4 schools is still a better league than the Big 12 without the Texlahoma 4. I see the ACC raiding the Big 12, possibly taking all 6, as more probable.

About the only way I see ACC schools joining the Big 12 is if Florida St and their likeminded compatriots who are not Big Ten or SEC targets, strike up a deal with the schools who are on those radars in a plan to disband the league and land the major players in higher paying leagues.

As the paradigm shifts away from cable subscribership I think the SEC might some day see the advantage of adding programs like Florida St and Clemson because overall viewership and popularity is more important. in the future I don't think it will matter so much where the fans are just how many of them are there.

The ACC GoR makes this scenario implausible in the next 10 years, but here's how it might look:

ACC
East: Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest
North: Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Florida State, Miami-FL, TCU
West: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Louisville

Big Ten
East: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State
North: Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue
South: Maryland, North Carolina, Rutgers, Virginia
West: Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin

Pac-16
East: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech
North: Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah
West: California, Stanford, UCLA, USC

SEC
East: Florida, Georgia, NC State, South Carolina
North: Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech
South: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
West: Arkansas, LSU, Missouri, Texas A&M

For this to occur, the Big 12 would have to survive the expiration of their current GoR intact and adopt a new one that lasts until around the time the ACC GoR expires in 2035-36. The NC and VA schools wouldn't defect too far before then, if at all.

The ACC GOR runs through 2036. No ACC schools want to move, nor will they.

Note the other bolded part.

Yep, I saw that well before I posted.

(10-11-2017 01:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:07 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  The thread was not about ACC schools leaving, but about adding schools to the ACC. Specifically, some Big 12 schools in Texas. Though I also think WVU would be a good candidate.

Read the posts again......


Pasted from another post:

"I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American."



Apology accepted.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You were wrong to keep stumbling down an off-topic path, in the first place.

(10-11-2017 01:33 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 01:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:07 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  The thread was not about ACC schools leaving, but about adding schools to the ACC. Specifically, some Big 12 schools in Texas. Though I also think WVU would be a good candidate.

Read the posts again......


Pasted from another post:

"I guess if someone wanted to outspend the four-letter network:

Texahoma four to PAC
Virginia, UNC to B1G
NCSU, Virginia Tech to SEC

XII adds FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Duke

West - TCU, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Louisville, FSU
East - Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Duke, Pittsburgh, WVU, Syracuse

Notre Dame probably tags along with its current arrangement.

Boston College and Wake Forest join the American."



Apology accepted.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You were wrong to keep stumbling down an off-topic path, in the first place.

Lol, you are not the boss of me (or this thread)......

The only wrong was the premise in your post.