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OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
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bluephi1914 Offline
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OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
League would not agree to promotion/regulation provision.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-socce...relegation
07-24-2017 08:10 PM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
It was a bogus offer to start. The league to not allowed to talk TV deals until there new one is done after the current contract is up in like 5-6 years. This was an offer he knew they couldn't accept just to make the league look bad.
07-24-2017 08:15 PM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
Guy is a scammer.

He bought into NASL for pennies and wants to get elevated to MLS. If he really had access to the cash to have MLS in Miami, he would cut a deal with Beckham for interest in his franchise.

As Sly noted MLS can't even talk to another entity about the TV rights for another five or six years without being in breach. He made them an offer he knew they couldn't accept so he could stir up the people who want pro/rel and get attention by declaring MLS is afraid of competition.

He also claims that a North America / South America club champions league would rake in 5X the money of the existing North American tournament and the South American tournament. Never mind even casual soccer fans haven't heard of the existing tournament and the MLS teams do poorly in large part because the schedule forces them to start play as they start their season rather than at the end of their season.

What escapes everyone is pro/rel SUCKS if it is your team and too many teams end up bankrupt or near to it when they get relegated. TV won't tolerate having a top team be relegated and the only way to prevent that is to abandon the salary cap which has been just dandy in England where four teams have won 23 of the last 25 titles.

Cities won't pledge millions for new stadiums if it may end up being a minor league team playing there.

Most importantly US soccer ain't European soccer. In Europe the clubs existed before the leagues. The clubs formed into associations and leagues. The leagues are the creation of the teams. In the US, the teams are a creation of the league.
07-25-2017 12:11 AM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
07-coffee3
07-25-2017 06:29 AM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
It's just not going to work here. As Arkstfan noted, it works in Europe because the Clubs came before the leagues. Many times a relegated club who starts nearing bankruptcy is saved by a few Wealthy fans, who simply buy most of the shares and start again. MLS doesn't have that kind of support.
07-25-2017 10:11 AM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-25-2017 10:11 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It's just not going to work here. As Arkstfan noted, it works in Europe because the Clubs came before the leagues. Many times a relegated club who starts nearing bankruptcy is saved by a few Wealthy fans, who simply buy most of the shares and start again. MLS doesn't have that kind of support.

Bolton was relegated in 2012, forced into involuntary bankruptcy in December of 2015, worked out of it and got hit with another involuntary bankruptcy last week.
07-25-2017 01:28 PM
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runninjoe Offline
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-25-2017 01:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 10:11 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It's just not going to work here. As Arkstfan noted, it works in Europe because the Clubs came before the leagues. Many times a relegated club who starts nearing bankruptcy is saved by a few Wealthy fans, who simply buy most of the shares and start again. MLS doesn't have that kind of support.

Bolton was relegated in 2012, forced into involuntary bankruptcy in December of 2015, worked out of it and got hit with another involuntary bankruptcy last week.

You will never be able to convince me that promotion/relegation is not the better system. Every game becomes important. Who is watching the bottom of the table like Minnesota United play Real Salt Lake besides the people at the game? Does the putcome even matter ? As a consumer I don't watch it unless I'm desperate, just as I don't watch the NBA regular season. I will always opt for Bundesliga, Premier League, or La Liga over MLS all of which I can watch easily.

For every bankruptcy like Portsmouth there is a club like Eibar whose moneyball style of getting under the radar loans and team style of play is refreshing. Being a fan of a small FBS team I can't see how you could not support Promotion/Relegation.
07-25-2017 03:03 PM
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Duke Dawg Online
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-25-2017 03:03 PM)runninjoe Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 01:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 10:11 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It's just not going to work here. As Arkstfan noted, it works in Europe because the Clubs came before the leagues. Many times a relegated club who starts nearing bankruptcy is saved by a few Wealthy fans, who simply buy most of the shares and start again. MLS doesn't have that kind of support.

Bolton was relegated in 2012, forced into involuntary bankruptcy in December of 2015, worked out of it and got hit with another involuntary bankruptcy last week.

You will never be able to convince me that promotion/relegation is not the better system. Every game becomes important. Who is watching the bottom of the table like Minnesota United play Real Salt Lake besides the people at the game? Does the putcome even matter ? As a consumer I don't watch it unless I'm desperate, just as I don't watch the NBA regular season. I will always opt for Bundesliga, Premier League, or La Liga over MLS all of which I can watch easily.

For every bankruptcy like Portsmouth there is a club like Eibar whose moneyball style of getting under the radar loans and team style of play is refreshing. Being a fan of a small FBS team I can't see how you could not support Promotion/Relegation.


do you watch those leagues because they have promotion/relegation?

no. you watch because the quality of play is light years better.

just like a euro-hoops fan is going to watch the NBA over the EuroLeague.
07-25-2017 03:12 PM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-25-2017 03:03 PM)runninjoe Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 01:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 10:11 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It's just not going to work here. As Arkstfan noted, it works in Europe because the Clubs came before the leagues. Many times a relegated club who starts nearing bankruptcy is saved by a few Wealthy fans, who simply buy most of the shares and start again. MLS doesn't have that kind of support.

Bolton was relegated in 2012, forced into involuntary bankruptcy in December of 2015, worked out of it and got hit with another involuntary bankruptcy last week.

You will never be able to convince me that promotion/relegation is not the better system. Every game becomes important. Who is watching the bottom of the table like Minnesota United play Real Salt Lake besides the people at the game? Does the putcome even matter ? As a consumer I don't watch it unless I'm desperate, just as I don't watch the NBA regular season. I will always opt for Bundesliga, Premier League, or La Liga over MLS all of which I can watch easily.

For every bankruptcy like Portsmouth there is a club like Eibar whose moneyball style of getting under the radar loans and team style of play is refreshing. Being a fan of a small FBS team I can't see how you could not support Promotion/Relegation.

Because it doesnt work when you consider there are bills to pay. You cant financially commit to build a big boy P5 program when your income could become G5 the next year. Your bonds still have to be paid. Your coaching staff still has to be paid. The only way promotion/relegation works is if you have revenue sharing where everyone gets the same money. Good luck selling that to the P5. In a professional league, the only way it works is if every franchise is league owned. Otherwise, the franchises cant build economic model that works as well for the major league as it does for the minor league. From a profit and loss standpoint, its two different games.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2017 03:51 PM by Attackcoog.)
07-25-2017 03:50 PM
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slycat Offline
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
Okay so a relegation battle gets you to watch that team one or two times at the end of a season. Are you interested in watching the Watfords of the world at any other time or are you busy watching the same four teams battle for a championship? Just because you're excited to watch a struggling club once a season doesn't help them. Do you follow that team more now that they are in the Championship or do you go back to watch Chelsea and Man City decide which billionaire owner can pay more for a transfer fee? The point is tuning in for a game or two doesn't help a team that is about to lose tens of millions and many times go into financial ruin. Soccer is already a fringe sport in the US. An owner wouldn't be able to survive getting relegated here. I understand the logic that it makes you try harder to not suck. Heck look at DC United drift by with no DPs and no investment in players. But even they will decide to do more as fans stop showing up. Houston and Chicago are showing that teams can rebound. The league is already investing in youth development which is much needed. As fun as pro/rel can be it just doesn't make sense in a growing market. Even Liga MX in Mexico only send one team down and that's after a semi-complicated point factor over their split seasons.

People only want pro/rel because they see their favorite leagues in Europe do it. But then the majority of Americans are fans of teams that will never have to worry about going down. Heck most of those fan get all upset and cry a river when they don't qualify for Champions League and even if they do that they don't advance far enough in it. They would never be able to handle getting relegated.
07-25-2017 03:56 PM
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slycat Offline
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
I would argue that being a fan of G5 football should make you appreciate MLS even more.
07-25-2017 03:57 PM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-25-2017 03:03 PM)runninjoe Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 01:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 10:11 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It's just not going to work here. As Arkstfan noted, it works in Europe because the Clubs came before the leagues. Many times a relegated club who starts nearing bankruptcy is saved by a few Wealthy fans, who simply buy most of the shares and start again. MLS doesn't have that kind of support.

Bolton was relegated in 2012, forced into involuntary bankruptcy in December of 2015, worked out of it and got hit with another involuntary bankruptcy last week.

You will never be able to convince me that promotion/relegation is not the better system. Every game becomes important. Who is watching the bottom of the table like Minnesota United play Real Salt Lake besides the people at the game? Does the putcome even matter ? As a consumer I don't watch it unless I'm desperate, just as I don't watch the NBA regular season. I will always opt for Bundesliga, Premier League, or La Liga over MLS all of which I can watch easily.

For every bankruptcy like Portsmouth there is a club like Eibar whose moneyball style of getting under the radar loans and team style of play is refreshing. Being a fan of a small FBS team I can't see how you could not support Promotion/Relegation.

Better system for whom?

You understand that if pro/rel arrives the salary cap dies and then you fill your little heart with all the NYFC, NYRB, LAG, LAFC you can stand. Isn't it funny that while Americans are whining about not having pro/rel, the top clubs in Europe are toying with the idea of a break away that won't have pro/rel because they can maximize their TV revenue and not risk having their huge investment fall apart.

Tell me exactly how you convince Orlando or any other city to plow millions into a stadium when the team might be playing third division when it opens?

Chelsea once sold for $2 because it was broke. They got lucky and ended up with a good owner. Oh but pro/rel teams don't move. Ask Wimbledon fans about that. Leeds United bounced right back didn't they?

Rangers one of the greats of all time in Scottish football went under despite having only one serious competitor.

Pro/rel isn't what makes European leagues better. The ability of the owners to spend more in a market where there is no concept that there would be leagues in other sports with similar popularity is what makes it work.

You have an MLS team in Minneapolis, you are competing for ticket dollars with the Vikings, TWolves, Wild, Twins, Gophers football and Gophers basketball. In London, you are competing against other soccer clubs for ticket sales.

If a sports net misses on the local soccer league, they don't have much left to offer subscribers.
07-26-2017 09:02 AM
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chrisattsu Offline
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-26-2017 09:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 03:03 PM)runninjoe Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 01:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 10:11 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It's just not going to work here. As Arkstfan noted, it works in Europe because the Clubs came before the leagues. Many times a relegated club who starts nearing bankruptcy is saved by a few Wealthy fans, who simply buy most of the shares and start again. MLS doesn't have that kind of support.

Bolton was relegated in 2012, forced into involuntary bankruptcy in December of 2015, worked out of it and got hit with another involuntary bankruptcy last week.

You will never be able to convince me that promotion/relegation is not the better system. Every game becomes important. Who is watching the bottom of the table like Minnesota United play Real Salt Lake besides the people at the game? Does the putcome even matter ? As a consumer I don't watch it unless I'm desperate, just as I don't watch the NBA regular season. I will always opt for Bundesliga, Premier League, or La Liga over MLS all of which I can watch easily.

For every bankruptcy like Portsmouth there is a club like Eibar whose moneyball style of getting under the radar loans and team style of play is refreshing. Being a fan of a small FBS team I can't see how you could not support Promotion/Relegation.

Better system for whom?

You understand that if pro/rel arrives the salary cap dies and then you fill your little heart with all the NYFC, NYRB, LAG, LAFC you can stand. Isn't it funny that while Americans are whining about not having pro/rel, the top clubs in Europe are toying with the idea of a break away that won't have pro/rel because they can maximize their TV revenue and not risk having their huge investment fall apart.

Tell me exactly how you convince Orlando or any other city to plow millions into a stadium when the team might be playing third division when it opens?

Chelsea once sold for $2 because it was broke. They got lucky and ended up with a good owner. Oh but pro/rel teams don't move. Ask Wimbledon fans about that. Leeds United bounced right back didn't they?

Rangers one of the greats of all time in Scottish football went under despite having only one serious competitor.

Pro/rel isn't what makes European leagues better. The ability of the owners to spend more in a market where there is no concept that there would be leagues in other sports with similar popularity is what makes it work.

You have an MLS team in Minneapolis, you are competing for ticket dollars with the Vikings, TWolves, Wild, Twins, Gophers football and Gophers basketball. In London, you are competing against other soccer clubs for ticket sales.

If a sports net misses on the local soccer league, they don't have much left to offer subscribers.

So was it a mistake for the Don to go for MinnU in a crowded market? Are cities like Orlando and Portland better because their markets are less saturated?
07-26-2017 09:56 AM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-26-2017 09:56 AM)chrisattsu Wrote:  
(07-26-2017 09:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 03:03 PM)runninjoe Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 01:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-25-2017 10:11 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It's just not going to work here. As Arkstfan noted, it works in Europe because the Clubs came before the leagues. Many times a relegated club who starts nearing bankruptcy is saved by a few Wealthy fans, who simply buy most of the shares and start again. MLS doesn't have that kind of support.

Bolton was relegated in 2012, forced into involuntary bankruptcy in December of 2015, worked out of it and got hit with another involuntary bankruptcy last week.

You will never be able to convince me that promotion/relegation is not the better system. Every game becomes important. Who is watching the bottom of the table like Minnesota United play Real Salt Lake besides the people at the game? Does the putcome even matter ? As a consumer I don't watch it unless I'm desperate, just as I don't watch the NBA regular season. I will always opt for Bundesliga, Premier League, or La Liga over MLS all of which I can watch easily.

For every bankruptcy like Portsmouth there is a club like Eibar whose moneyball style of getting under the radar loans and team style of play is refreshing. Being a fan of a small FBS team I can't see how you could not support Promotion/Relegation.

Better system for whom?

You understand that if pro/rel arrives the salary cap dies and then you fill your little heart with all the NYFC, NYRB, LAG, LAFC you can stand. Isn't it funny that while Americans are whining about not having pro/rel, the top clubs in Europe are toying with the idea of a break away that won't have pro/rel because they can maximize their TV revenue and not risk having their huge investment fall apart.

Tell me exactly how you convince Orlando or any other city to plow millions into a stadium when the team might be playing third division when it opens?

Chelsea once sold for $2 because it was broke. They got lucky and ended up with a good owner. Oh but pro/rel teams don't move. Ask Wimbledon fans about that. Leeds United bounced right back didn't they?

Rangers one of the greats of all time in Scottish football went under despite having only one serious competitor.

Pro/rel isn't what makes European leagues better. The ability of the owners to spend more in a market where there is no concept that there would be leagues in other sports with similar popularity is what makes it work.

You have an MLS team in Minneapolis, you are competing for ticket dollars with the Vikings, TWolves, Wild, Twins, Gophers football and Gophers basketball. In London, you are competing against other soccer clubs for ticket sales.

If a sports net misses on the local soccer league, they don't have much left to offer subscribers.

So was it a mistake for the Don to go for MinnU in a crowded market? Are cities like Orlando and Portland better because their markets are less saturated?

Because we play the same schedule as the far north nations Spring-Fall there is a window of little overlap in the Summer.
07-26-2017 10:35 AM
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AppfanInCAAland Offline
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
I'm not a big association football fan, but have always been fascinated with the idea of promotion/relegation and given thought to how it might be implemented in US pro and NCAA leagues.

However, I've long said the top flight European teams are more likely to break away and create a league w/o pro/rel - an American-style UEFA Champions League with permanent franchises if you will - before we ever see such a pro/rel setup in the US/Canada leagues.

Can you imagine the worldwide TV money that would flow (and would not need to be shared) if every game Manchester, Barcelona, Milan, Bayern, etc played were against each other instead of Portsmouth, Eibar, Darmstadt, or Bologna.


The only way I could see it ever starting over here, would be had the NCAA set it up in the 70s instead of the D1-A/D1-AA/D2/D3 split before the court cases that gave all the tv money and power to the conferences.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2017 11:45 AM by AppfanInCAAland.)
07-26-2017 11:33 AM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
I could see the MLS operating similarly to Euroleague basketball, where certain teams are locked in and others have a chance to earn a spot on a year-to-year basis by how they perform in "lesser" leagues. Top-to-bottom pro/rel seems out of the question though.
07-26-2017 01:00 PM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-26-2017 01:00 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  I could see the MLS operating similarly to Euroleague basketball, where certain teams are locked in and others have a chance to earn a spot on a year-to-year basis by how they perform in "lesser" leagues. Top-to-bottom pro/rel seems out of the question though.

Even that is problematic. 10 USL teams are owned and operated by MLS teams, another 10 have player development affiliation agreements. Only 8 are completely independent and several of those are trying to get in MLS (Sacramento, Cincinnati, and St. Louis I know for sure) and could be in the next expansion round.
07-26-2017 04:21 PM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-26-2017 04:21 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(07-26-2017 01:00 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  I could see the MLS operating similarly to Euroleague basketball, where certain teams are locked in and others have a chance to earn a spot on a year-to-year basis by how they perform in "lesser" leagues. Top-to-bottom pro/rel seems out of the question though.

Even that is problematic. 10 USL teams are owned and operated by MLS teams, another 10 have player development affiliation agreements. Only 8 are completely independent and several of those are trying to get in MLS (Sacramento, Cincinnati, and St. Louis I know for sure) and could be in the next expansion round.

I know some in San Antonio were upset when they signed the agreement with NYCFC. I'd love to see them be included in the mix for expansion but I don't know if it will happen with teams like Sac Republic and Cinci making strong cases.

SAFC was acquired by the Spurs and has their backing with the stated goal of reaching MLS. They have a nice new soccer specific stadium with expansion plans if MLS extends an offer. San Antonio is passionate about Soccer and they fill their stadium.

The problems that seem to plague them are:
1. Stadium - MLS would prefer downtown stadium and no county/city wont approve public funds unless offer is in hand. Corporate money is reluctant to pour into it as well.

2. Texas - FCD has attendance issues. Also there is the Austin vs SA debate. I think deep down MLS feels that cool/hip Austin could be the next Portland. However if they award the team to SA, Austin will never happen because the cities are so close. Drag it out and maybe Austin gets their act together.

3. Lure of new markets. Texas already has two teams and there are few remaining expansion spots. Places like Cinci, PHX, Detroit, StL offer new markets.
07-27-2017 09:59 AM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
Promotion/Relegation doesn't make sense when the MLS has $50+ million expansion fees. No owner is going to risk his expansion franchise get relegated in the first year and lose out on MLS revenue. Decades down the road I could see them implementing it. My thought would be to try it exclusively on the lower leagues like the NASL, USL, and PDL first where the stakes are lower. It would add a bit more excitement to that level.
07-27-2017 03:18 PM
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RE: OT: MLS Rejects $4B Media Rights Deal
(07-27-2017 03:18 PM)Eagleditka Wrote:  Promotion/Relegation doesn't make sense when the MLS has $50+ million expansion fees. No owner is going to risk his expansion franchise get relegated in the first year and lose out on MLS revenue. Decades down the road I could see them implementing it. My thought would be to try it exclusively on the lower leagues like the NASL, USL, and PDL first where the stakes are lower. It would add a bit more excitement to that level.

USL experimented with it and basically no one got relegated to the lower tier because the lower tier USL owners couldn't afford the higher salary costs and would refuse the promotion.
07-27-2017 04:38 PM
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