(07-18-2017 04:23 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What they need to do is what was not done for Obamacare either. Have a real investigation and fact finding process where they look at other systems to see what works--and what doesn't. Don't have kabuki charade hearings like in the Obamacare process. Have real hearings that are actually intended to produce factual information. If one approach proves itself as decidedly superior to the others--and I predict that Bismarck will--then it will be awkward for democrats not to climb onboard as Obamacare craters.

Thank you! For all the people who support single-payer, we can show them the trouble Canada has with wait times: 90ish days for diagnostic imaging in Ontario. We can get a realistic scenario of the implementation and the likely events to happen due to the difficulties of said implementation.

I have a feeling that the hearings would never be filtered to the citizens accurately though. CSPAN would have the only accurate coverage.

Bismarck IS single-payer. Why the Bismarck supporters, except Fo, deny this is beyond me.

A lot of these guys are about to get an earful from the people that put them into office. Several republicans are going to lose primaries and thier replacement will vote for repeal. The Democrats aren't going to win seats by running on the strength of a plan that goes up in price an average of 40% a year and covers less with every price increase (assuming there is even anyone providing it in your area). I'd be happy to run against any Democrat touting Obamacare as the answer. That was a big loser in 2016 and after 2 40% price increases---it's going to be a winner for the Dems in 2016? Lol...yeah right. Let's see how well that works.

You only have those increases in red states that didn't expand Medicaid. Ohio is doing fine. Many other states like it. It's a hell of a lot more popular than the GOP replacement.

(07-18-2017 07:30 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You only have those increases in red states that didn't expand Medicaid. Ohio is doing fine. Many other states like it. It's a hell of a lot more popular than the GOP replacement.

Wrong...again. As usual.

So because NC didn't expand Medicaid BCBS has a monopoly in NC?

(07-18-2017 06:57 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I'm happy to hear that he is getting on to the people at the root of the problem.

He's looking in the mirror?

(07-18-2017 08:30 PM)solohawks Wrote:  So because NC didn't expand Medicaid BCBS has a monopoly in NC?

yeah that's why some insurance companies were for it.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(07-18-2017 07:21 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:23 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What they need to do is what was not done for Obamacare either. Have a real investigation and fact finding process where they look at other systems to see what works--and what doesn't. Don't have kabuki charade hearings like in the Obamacare process. Have real hearings that are actually intended to produce factual information. If one approach proves itself as decidedly superior to the others--and I predict that Bismarck will--then it will be awkward for democrats not to climb onboard as Obamacare craters.

Thank you! For all the people who support single-payer, we can show them the trouble Canada has with wait times: 90ish days for diagnostic imaging in Ontario. We can get a realistic scenario of the implementation and the likely events to happen due to the difficulties of said implementation.

I have a feeling that the hearings would never be filtered to the citizens accurately though. CSPAN would have the only accurate coverage.

Bismarck IS single-payer. Why the Bismarck supporters, except Fo, deny this is beyond me.

How is it single payer?

It's single payer for the basics like your wellness exam. The French system provides a basic plan for all citizens. Companies are able to offer nicer plans for their employees on top of what the government offers.

(07-18-2017 07:21 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:23 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What they need to do is what was not done for Obamacare either. Have a real investigation and fact finding process where they look at other systems to see what works--and what doesn't. Don't have kabuki charade hearings like in the Obamacare process. Have real hearings that are actually intended to produce factual information. If one approach proves itself as decidedly superior to the others--and I predict that Bismarck will--then it will be awkward for democrats not to climb onboard as Obamacare craters.

Thank you! For all the people who support single-payer, we can show them the trouble Canada has with wait times: 90ish days for diagnostic imaging in Ontario. We can get a realistic scenario of the implementation and the likely events to happen due to the difficulties of said implementation.

I have a feeling that the hearings would never be filtered to the citizens accurately though. CSPAN would have the only accurate coverage.

Bismarck IS single-payer. Why the Bismarck supporters, except Fo, deny this is beyond me.

After actually doing some further looking at Bismarck systems and how they work?... I have come to the conclusion ...it is multi payer...not single payer. It has a wide variety of options available to the consumer. Calling it single payer is inaccurate. Owl did a primer on Bismarck in another thread. It spurred me to do some research on my on. He synopsis was pretty accurate from what I found.

(07-18-2017 09:17 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 07:21 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:23 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What they need to do is what was not done for Obamacare either. Have a real investigation and fact finding process where they look at other systems to see what works--and what doesn't. Don't have kabuki charade hearings like in the Obamacare process. Have real hearings that are actually intended to produce factual information. If one approach proves itself as decidedly superior to the others--and I predict that Bismarck will--then it will be awkward for democrats not to climb onboard as Obamacare craters.

Thank you! For all the people who support single-payer, we can show them the trouble Canada has with wait times: 90ish days for diagnostic imaging in Ontario. We can get a realistic scenario of the implementation and the likely events to happen due to the difficulties of said implementation.

I have a feeling that the hearings would never be filtered to the citizens accurately though. CSPAN would have the only accurate coverage.

Bismarck IS single-payer. Why the Bismarck supporters, except Fo, deny this is beyond me.

After actually doing some further looking at Bismarck systems and how they work?... I have come to the conclusion ...it is multi payer...not single payer. It has a wide variety of options available to the consumer. Calling it single payer is inaccurate. Owl did a primer on Bismarck in another thread. It spurred me to do some research on my on. He synopsis was pretty accurate from what I found.

Except it is accurate. The base plan is single-payer and everything I've read here and elsewhere states that plainly. You give this government a defacto single payer like Bismarck and you can say bye bye to Bismarck. You know this, Owl sure as sh*t knows this and I know this. The only thing is, I'm man enough to admit that any form of Bismarck will be stripped to it's base by this government and that base is single payer. You can forget all that multi payer garbage you're posting about, any chance the government gets to control your life 100% they take it.

(07-18-2017 07:21 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:23 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What they need to do is what was not done for Obamacare either. Have a real investigation and fact finding process where they look at other systems to see what works--and what doesn't. Don't have kabuki charade hearings like in the Obamacare process. Have real hearings that are actually intended to produce factual information. If one approach proves itself as decidedly superior to the others--and I predict that Bismarck will--then it will be awkward for democrats not to climb onboard as Obamacare craters.

Thank you! For all the people who support single-payer, we can show them the trouble Canada has with wait times: 90ish days for diagnostic imaging in Ontario. We can get a realistic scenario of the implementation and the likely events to happen due to the difficulties of said implementation.
I have a feeling that the hearings would never be filtered to the citizens accurately though. CSPAN would have the only accurate coverage.

Bismarck IS single-payer. Why the Bismarck supporters, except Fo, deny this is beyond me.

No, it isn't. Single payer means that only one entity--the government--can pay providers for health care. If the government won't pay for it, you can't get it. You can't pay cash to a doctor to get some treatment. You can't have private health insurance. That's why they call it single payer.

Bismarck is universal private insurance. It is multi-payer and multi-provider. You get to choose the policy that you want from multiple offerings by multiple insurers.

I just wish I had an GOP Senator from my beloved state of Virginia to hold accountable. Instead, we have Endlessly Constipated Warner and Creepy Clown Kaine. Both asshats. I hope they both get pink-eye during the next recess.

(07-18-2017 09:25 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 09:17 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 07:21 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:23 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:19 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What they need to do is what was not done for Obamacare either. Have a real investigation and fact finding process where they look at other systems to see what works--and what doesn't. Don't have kabuki charade hearings like in the Obamacare process. Have real hearings that are actually intended to produce factual information. If one approach proves itself as decidedly superior to the others--and I predict that Bismarck will--then it will be awkward for democrats not to climb onboard as Obamacare craters.

Thank you! For all the people who support single-payer, we can show them the trouble Canada has with wait times: 90ish days for diagnostic imaging in Ontario. We can get a realistic scenario of the implementation and the likely events to happen due to the difficulties of said implementation.

I have a feeling that the hearings would never be filtered to the citizens accurately though. CSPAN would have the only accurate coverage.

Bismarck IS single-payer. Why the Bismarck supporters, except Fo, deny this is beyond me.

After actually doing some further looking at Bismarck systems and how they work?... I have come to the conclusion ...it is multi payer...not single payer. It has a wide variety of options available to the consumer. Calling it single payer is inaccurate. Owl did a primer on Bismarck in another thread. It spurred me to do some research on my on. He synopsis was pretty accurate from what I found.

Except it is accurate. The base plan is single-payer and everything I've read here and elsewhere states that plainly. You give this government a defacto single payer like Bismarck and you can say bye bye to Bismarck. You know this, Owl sure as sh*t knows this and I know this. The only thing is, I'm man enough to admit that any form of Bismarck will be stripped to it's base by this government and that base is single payer. You can forget all that multi payer garbage you're posting about, any chance the government gets to control your life 100% they take it.

Nope. Do as I did and do some research. I also thought it was single payer for basic care. The problem with all of this is NO ONE in Washington has mentioned Bismarck a SINGLE fcking time to my knowledge. It looks to be as irrelevant as other things like consumption taxes...that make sense and are being used successfully all over the world. I am beginning to believe there is purposeful reason we are mired in this BS. There are powerful people, businesses and entities that will not allow change because they profit handsomely from the current paradigm. That is the logical conclusion.

Wasting your time Fo. He doesn't believe any of the truth of flat/fair tax either. It's a new tax added on top of everything we already pay.

(07-18-2017 10:02 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Wasting your time Fo. He doesn't believe any of the truth of flat/fair tax either. It's a new tax added on top of everything we already pay.

Sadly...It really is a waste of time to talk about. No one in power will allow any of this stuff to happen. At some level these things are a threat to them. It will take a giant grass roots uprising to get their attention. I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

(07-18-2017 09:25 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  Except it is accurate.

No, it isn't. It simply isn't.

Quote:The base plan is single-payer

No, it isn't. It simply isn't. It's multi-payer (the various insurance providers, who take slightly different forms in different countries) and multi-provider (so it isn't single-provider either).

Quote:and everything I've read here and elsewhere states that plainly.

Then what you've read is wrong, or you don't understand what you read.

Quote: You give this government a defacto single payer like Bismarck and you can say bye bye to Bismarck.

Why do you suppose that has never happened in any of the Bismarck systems around the world?

Quote:You know this, Owl sure as sh*t knows this and I know this.

I don't know this. In fact, I know that it is incorrect.

Quote:The only thing is, I'm man enough to admit that any form of Bismarck will be stripped to it's base by this government and that base is single payer. You can forget all that multi payer garbage you're posting about, any chance the government gets to control your life 100% they take it.

The reason I'm making this point is that you are falling into exactly the trap that the left wants you to fall into. France has great health care, so let's do what Canada does. If you don't understand that French health care is nothing like Canada's, the you can easily fall victim to their lies.

(07-18-2017 09:57 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 09:25 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 09:17 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 07:21 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 04:23 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Thank you! For all the people who support single-payer, we can show them the trouble Canada has with wait times: 90ish days for diagnostic imaging in Ontario. We can get a realistic scenario of the implementation and the likely events to happen due to the difficulties of said implementation.

I have a feeling that the hearings would never be filtered to the citizens accurately though. CSPAN would have the only accurate coverage.

Bismarck IS single-payer. Why the Bismarck supporters, except Fo, deny this is beyond me.

After actually doing some further looking at Bismarck systems and how they work?... I have come to the conclusion ...it is multi payer...not single payer. It has a wide variety of options available to the consumer. Calling it single payer is inaccurate. Owl did a primer on Bismarck in another thread. It spurred me to do some research on my on. He synopsis was pretty accurate from what I found.

Except it is accurate. The base plan is single-payer and everything I've read here and elsewhere states that plainly. You give this government a defacto single payer like Bismarck and you can say bye bye to Bismarck. You know this, Owl sure as sh*t knows this and I know this. The only thing is, I'm man enough to admit that any form of Bismarck will be stripped to it's base by this government and that base is single payer. You can forget all that multi payer garbage you're posting about, any chance the government gets to control your life 100% they take it.

Nope. Do as I did and do some research. I also thought it was single payer for basic care. The problem with all of this is NO ONE in Washington has mentioned Bismarck a SINGLE fcking time to my knowledge. It looks to be as irrelevant as other things like consumption taxes...that make sense and are being used successfully all over the world. I am beginning to believe there is purposeful reason we are mired in this BS. There are powerful people, businesses and entities that will not allow change because they profit handsomely from the current paradigm. That is the logical conclusion.

I remember it being brought up a few years ago when someone wrote a bill allowing states to form their own Bismarck systems. Let's just say it's a rarity because the people who offer "solutions" are passionate about what they think are the answers. The media then dumbs it down to two choices to create dynamic tension. Bake that at 350 for 15 minutes and you have a situation where you end up going between two not-so-ideal choices.

I'll just ask the 'board laureates' two simple questions....

why not just implement tort reform and eliminate state controlled insurers? those two alone would increase price competition across the board.....

seems pretty dayum simple to me....but I'm just the village idiot....

dem lobbyists would shite their britches if that were to happen....

congress is a shitehole across the board.....

Bismark - Pissmark......not one decision maker is talking about any of that bs.....

nat'l healthcare is the same as 5.00/gal......it's a crippler....

rant over.....

(07-18-2017 04:00 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  This is what you get when you keep trying to build Rome in a day. This repeal and replace stuff isn't going to work in two swoops just because your sense of self commands it. This "dealmaking" Trump is doing now is just as effective as his dealmaking with the NFL as the owner of the NJ Generals. At least he got a dollar out of that.

That's funny...did you see trump's tweet today? He's basically promising to fix their health care bill over lunch.

"The Republicans never discuss how good their healthcare bill is, & it will get even better at lunchtime.The Dems scream death as OCare dies!"