(07-19-2017 04:51 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  

(07-19-2017 12:11 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(07-18-2017 07:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The Big East was part of the club. All but 3 football schools are not playing in a P5 today.

I'd count the all time records of West Virginia, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and Louisville in this.

So where do we draw the line on this? Are we doing all Big East schools? It seems ridiculous (to me) to count a school like Syracuse but not UConn. I understand a team like UConn went to the AAC and Syracuse went to the ACC, but how about Rutgers? They went to the AAC then the B10. Or even a team like Temple that has been all over the place....Independent, MAC, Big East, AAC. I can try, but I'm going to need help from other posters here determining which schools qualify. Someone mentioned Florida State, but they were an independent at the time. Obviously they are P5 now. So it would be too much work for me to go back every season and figure out which current or perceived P5 teams were in a different conference at the time of a loss.

I'm doing the Big East currently.

Don't count Cincinnati, South Florida, Temple, Connecticut.

Count Louisville, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Virginia, West Virginia.

And count Rutgers/FSU/VaTech/Louisville when they were Independents as well? And teams like Utah and TCU would only count since their promotion to P5 conferences.

(07-17-2017 11:24 AM)george14 Wrote:  Central Michigan
B12: 1-3 (Ok St. 2016)

Signed,

Mike Gundy

(07-20-2017 09:55 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(07-17-2017 11:24 AM)george14 Wrote:  Central Michigan
B12: 1-3 (Ok St. 2016)

Signed,

Mike Gundy

(07-17-2017 11:24 AM)george14 Wrote:  http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/teams/index.shtml

Not sure who knows about this website, but I find it fascinating. You click on a team, then you can choose to see their record vs. other teams or conferences. For example, here is Akron's record vs other conferences: (http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/akron/index.shtml) You can then select that conference and see who they beat, the score, the year, etc. It's a really useful tool to check some teams history out.

Akron
ACC: 2-4 (Pitt 2014, NC State 2006)
B10: 0-19
B12: 0-3
P12: 0-1
SEC: 0-6

Ball State
ACC: 1-4 (Virginia 2013)
B10: 3-24 (Indiana 2012/2011/2008)
B12: 0-9
P12: 0-1
SEC: 0-7

Bowling Green
ACC: 0-5
B10: 8-17 (Purdue 2015/2003/1972, Maryland 2015, Indiana 2014, Minnesota 2007, Northwestern 2003/2001)
B12: 4-7 (Kansas 2002, Missouri 2002/2001/1995)
P12: 0-2
SEC: 1-6 (Kentucky 1985)

Buffalo
ACC: 0-5
B10: 0-7
B12: 0-6
P12: 0-0
SEC: 0-3

Central Michigan
ACC: 0-10
B10: 6-25 (Purdue 2014, Iowa 2012, MSU 2009/1992/1991, Indiana 2008)
B12: 1-3 (Ok St. 2016)
P12: 0-1
SEC: 0-8

Eastern Michigan
ACC: 0-5
B10: 0-29
B12: 0-1
P12: 0-1
SEC: 0-8

Kent State
ACC: 1-7 (NC State 1971)
B10: 0-15
B12: 2-10 (ISU 2007, Kansas 1987)
P12: 0-0
SEC: 0-13

Miami
ACC: 4-4 (North Carolina 2002/1998/1978, Maryland 1969)
B10: 12-45 (Northwestern 2003/1999/1995/1982/1964/1955, Indiana 1977/1966/1954, Purdue 1975/1973/1962)
B12: 0-6
P12: 0-1
SEC: 6-9 (Vanderbilt 2000, LSU 1986, Kentucky 1979/1974, Georgia 1974, Florida 1973)

Northern Illinois
ACC: 2-6 (Maryland 2003, Wake Forest 2002)
B10: 6-37 (Northwestern 2014, Purdue 2013/2009, Iowa 2013, Minnesota 2010, Wisconsin 1988)
B12: 5-11 (Kansas 2012/1983, ISU 2003, Kansas State 1990/1989)
P12: 0-1
SEC: 1-10 (Alabama 2003)

Ohio
ACC: 1-12 (Maryland 1997)
B10: 7-29 (Penn State 2012, Illinois 2006/1938/1935, Minnesota 2000, Northwestern 1973, Indiana 1929)
B12: 2-9 (Kansas 2016/1967)
P12: 0-0
SEC: 2-9 (Kentucky 2004/1971)

Toledo
ACC: 0-0
B10: 6-14 (Purdue (2010/1997/1992, Michigan 2008, Minnesota 2001, Penn State 2000)
B12: 4-5 (ISU 2015/2007, Colorado 2009, Kansas 2006)
P12: 0-6
SEC: 1-3 (Arkansas 2015)

Western Michigan
ACC: 1-6 (Virginia 2006)
B10: 6-40 (Illinois 2016/2008, Northwestern 2016, Iowa 2007/2000, Wisconsin 1988)
B12: 1-4 (ISU 1994)
P12: 0-0
SEC: 1-2 (Vanderbilt 1998)

Overall Ranking by win %
1) Toledo 11-28 28.2% (last win 2015)
2) Bowling Green 13-37 26% (last win 2015)
3) Miami 22-65 25.3% (last win 2003)
4) Northern Illinois 14-65 17.7% (last win 2014)
5) Ohio 12-59 16.9% (last win 2016)
6) Western Michigan 9-52 14.8% (last win 2016)
7) Central Michigan 7-47 13% (last win 2016)
8) Ball State 4-45 8.2% (last win 2013)
9) Kent State 3-45 6.3% (last win 2007)
10) Akron 2-33 5.7% (last win 2014)
11) Buffalo 0-21 0%
12) Eastern Michigan 0-44 0%

Win % against the B10
1) Bowling Green 8-17 32% (last win 2015)
2) Toledo 6-14 30% (last win 2010)
3) Miami 12-45 21% (last win 2003)
4) Ohio 7-29 19.4% (last win 2012)
5) Central Michigan 6-25 19.4% (last win 2014)
6) Northern Illinois 6-37 14% (last win 2014)
7) Western Michigan 6-40 13% (last win 2016)
8) Ball State 3-24 11.1% (last win 2012)
9) Buffalo 0-7 0%
10) Kent State 0-15 0%
11) Akron 0-19 0%
12) Eastern Michigan 0-29 0%

Wow. Eastern Michigan is 0-44 vs power schools? Not a single win? Buffalo being winless (0-21) is less surprising because they are somewhat new still...but EMU at 0-44 is remarkable

this could be their year. the game at rutgers should be very competitive

(07-23-2017 12:41 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Wow. Eastern Michigan is 0-44 vs power schools? Not a single win? Buffalo being winless (0-21) is less surprising because they are somewhat new still...but EMU at 0-44 is remarkable

Yeah it's crazy to think that but then again, in the past 10 years (before this season) they would win basically 2 games a year. Usually against an FCS team then 1 MAC win. I do remember them almost beating Northwestern around 2008 or 2009. I think they beat Rutgers this year.

(07-24-2017 08:18 AM)george14 Wrote:  

(07-23-2017 12:41 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Wow. Eastern Michigan is 0-44 vs power schools? Not a single win? Buffalo being winless (0-21) is less surprising because they are somewhat new still...but EMU at 0-44 is remarkable

Yeah it's crazy to think that but then again, in the past 10 years (before this season) they would win basically 2 games a year. Usually against an FCS team then 1 MAC win. I do remember them almost beating Northwestern around 2008 or 2009. I think they beat Rutgers this year.

EMU has something like 31 MAC wins in the past 17 seasons. Program's best win has to be the '87 Bowl win over a good San Jose State team that
had a couple of PAC10(12) wins.

Not sure how UB's 2002 win at Rutgers doesnt count. The Big East was BCS, had 4 ranked teams that season.

(07-24-2017 07:10 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  Not sure how UB's 2002 win at Rutgers doesnt count. The Big East was BCS, had 4 ranked teams that season.

Once again, I went through the current P5 teams and looked at those conferences at the time of the games being played.

If someone wants to take the time and add the Big East Schools and also figure out which current P5 schools were independents at the time....be my guest lol.

The problem I have with that is where are we drawing the line? No one has answered that yet. Buffalo beat Boston College in 1967 and 1969 along with beating UConn in 2001. Boston College is P5 now. UConn was Big East for a while. But they were both Independent at the time. And UConn now isn't even P5. So do you see how this is going to get confusing?

(07-25-2017 08:25 AM)george14 Wrote:  

(07-24-2017 07:10 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  Not sure how UB's 2002 win at Rutgers doesnt count. The Big East was BCS, had 4 ranked teams that season.

Once again, I went through the current P5 teams and looked at those conferences at the time of the games being played.

If someone wants to take the time and add the Big East Schools and also figure out which current P5 schools were independents at the time....be my guest lol.

The problem I have with that is where are we drawing the line? No one has answered that yet. Buffalo beat Boston College in 1967 and 1969 along with beating UConn in 2001. Boston College is P5 now. UConn was Big East for a while. But they were both Independent at the time. And UConn now isn't even P5. So do you see how this is going to get confusing?

The funny thing is too, when WMU beat UConn in 2011 and 2012, I believe those are the correct years, I considered them a BCS/Power 5 school and Conference. Now, not so much. LOL.
It's strange seeing USF was technically considered a BCS school too.

(07-25-2017 04:16 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The funny thing is too, when WMU beat UConn in 2011 and 2012, I believe those are the correct years, I considered them a BCS/Power 5 school and Conference. Now, not so much. LOL.
It's strange seeing USF was technically considered a BCS school too.

Right and I'm not trying to be snarky or difficult, but I think a lot of people aren't realizing how complicated it is. UConn is a perfect example because are we going to count them as P5 for a couple years, then not count them? Same goes for Temple and USF. Or teams that were smaller at first as Independents, then became P5 schools?

Yes, same goes for Temple. Who never beat a winning MAC Team when in the MAC. :) So yeah, you got a point.

*BUT* -- fact remains -- when you're playing a P5/"BCS" conference team and you win or lose, you count that on your record as playing such a team. Even if said team dropped down.

After all, Idaho beat Colorado State in a bowl just this past bowl season. Idaho's out the door after this year, going FCS.

Does that mean Colorado State lost to an FCS school, once we're set into the 2018 season and Idaho's FCS? No.

WMU beat Illinois last year. If Illinois joins the B12 in 2020, does that mean in 2020, WMU has one less win against a B10 team? Of course not. :)

(07-26-2017 06:00 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  Yes, same goes for Temple. Who never beat a winning MAC Team when in the MAC. :) So yeah, you got a point.

*BUT* -- fact remains -- when you're playing a P5/"BCS" conference team and you win or lose, you count that on your record as playing such a team. Even if said team dropped down.

After all, Idaho beat Colorado State in a bowl just this past bowl season. Idaho's out the door after this year, going FCS.

Does that mean Colorado State lost to an FCS school, once we're set into the 2018 season and Idaho's FCS? No.

WMU beat Illinois last year. If Illinois joins the B12 in 2020, does that mean in 2020, WMU has one less win against a B10 team? Of course not. :)

I understand but that still doesn't address the question of a team like Boston College or an Independent. Temple is an interesting case as well because they were Independent, then MAC, then Big East, now G5. So Temple only counts as P5 for the few years in the Big East? What distinguishes them as an Independent vs. Big East as a P5? It's like saying Florida State was not P5 when they were an Independent. It's confusing. If someone wants to do it....go ahead lol.

Quote:Temple is an interesting case as well because they were Independent, then MAC, then Big East, now G5.

Actually, trickier than that for Temple (since 90s):
- Big East (P5) [to 2004]
- Independent [to 2006]
- MAC (G5) [to 2011]
- Big East (P5) [to 2012]
- AAC (P5) [to 2013]
- AAC (G5) [to NOW]

Temple re-joined the Big East in the last year of it being the Big East -- but the name-change to AAC, it was still P5 for it's 1st year and 1st year only.

Quote:So Temple only counts as P5 for the few years in the Big East?

A Temple W/L only counts as a P5 W/L at the time they were in a P5 Conference. Which, yes, would be the Big East + the 1st year of the AAC which it was P5.

So if you beat Temple while in the MAC, Independent, or on the 2014 year or later -- no, it's not a P5 win. But if you beat them otherwise, it's a P5 win. Sure, nothing huge to brag about. But neither would be beating Indiana on a bad year for them either, and that's P5, too.

Quote:What distinguishes them as an Independent vs. Big East as a P5?

You're independent when you're not in Any conference. Only Notre Dame is considered P5 when Independent. One way one could look at it is SoS -- if you play more P5 teams as an Indy, you're considered P5. Notre Dame has that + in all other sports is part of a P5 conference, so that's more than enough support. But mainly, it gets an Auto-Qualifying-Bid in a BCS-level bowl. That's the Real definition.

The only other Independent where it'd come into question whether they're G5 or P5 -- would be BYU. But BYU, although having a tough SoS, doesn't have enough P5s to be considered "P5". It being tough though, if in all other sports they were, say, part of the B12 -- you could make a case for that. However, they get no Auto-Qualifying-Bid to a BCS-level bowl, so that's the real meat & potatoes.

But to answer your question: If WMU or CMU beat Temple when they were Independent -- no, it wouldn't count as a P5 win. You could make the case that it's a P5-level win as far as Temple's SoS and record... but they were 1-22 during those 2 years Independent, as a Result of being KICKED OUT of a P5 conference (Big East). So NO WAY could one say in 2005 & 2006 would a win over an Independent Temple count as a P5 win.

But a win against Temple in 2012 & 2013 -- IS a P5 win (last year of Big East; first year of AAC).

Once again, I know people were saying their school has wins against the Big East, or a P5 schools that was formerly independent such as FSU or BC. If someone wants to compute that, go ahead. Post it on here and I will then factor it in.

The Big East 1 year was G5 before it changed names, but was G5 the rest of the way before then.

So I WOULD count wins against the Big East, WHEN they were P6. Just the same as if Indiana left the B1G and went to the AAC tomorrow. The Indiana wins that already happened should still count as P5 wins.

There was no P5/G5 before 2014 so the simplest way to delineate would be to count games form that point forward. You could go back to the formation of the BCS system and make it a list of MAC v. P5/BCS. Or, since this is george's list, he can do it the way he wants. This is just for fun anyway. I'd like to see a list of MAC wins versus Top 20/25 but those stats would be crazy hard to compile.

Quote:There was no P5/G5 before 2014 so the simplest way to delineate would be to count games form that point forward.

But there was a P6/G4, is what I was pointing out. And legitimately so. The best teams left the Big East and it changed around to make everything become a P5/G5. The intent of MAC vs P5 is MAC vs power conferences. So beating Pitt when they were in the power conference Big East then, and are a power team now too in the ACC -- IMO, isn't at all complicated to count as a power conference win.

A Rutgers win When they were in the AAC non-power, despite them being in a power conference now, no, shouldn't count -- so I wasn't impying that at all. :)

Who cares what conference they are in? Go by most vegas underdog wins or something like that? Or AP top 25 wins. Those are compilable. A better indicator than if Kansas is better than Ohio state.

(07-17-2017 04:06 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  NIU has kind of beat up on the Big 10 in recent years, NIU has a winning record at 4-3 in its last 7 games vs Big 10 competition

Guessing NIU would be #1 on that list if the focus was the last 15 years?