No, but situation is much like MWC.
Big 10 and MAC=Midwest
PAC and MWC=West

(08-25-2019 10:55 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  No, but situation is much like MWC.
Big 10 and MAC=Midwest
PAC and MWC=West

If half or more of the MAC is in the Eastern Time Zone, how the heck can it be in the Mid-West. Does the Michigan and Illinois teams rule, control and define the MAC?

It’s not about time zones. It’s about culture. Ohio is definitively midwestern in culture. The MAC is entirely within the geographic footprint of the Big 10, not even considering their recent expansion. And the answer to your question is “no” because the MAC “rules, controls, and defines” itself. The relationship between the MAC and the Big 10 is long standing and is easily observable, but the two operate independently.

Midwest doesn't mean central Time zone. Midwest means the old Western frontier out to the Mississippi and eventually beyond on the way to California. The plains so to speak, before the Rockies which divides the Midwest and West. Ohio is in the Midwest... That's where half of our schools reside. UB is the only one out of the Midwest, but they share Lake Erie with our conference home (Cleveland) and geographic center (Toledo). If we were Eastern I'd feel a connection to Baltimore, Philly, NY, Richmond etc. AND THOSE PLACES ARE DIFFERENT. Fricken DeKalb is BG. OU walks the border with mountain folk in West Virginia, but it's mostly in accent and rolling hills only.

(08-26-2019 10:58 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  If half or more of the MAC is in the Eastern Time Zone, how the heck can it be in the Mid-West.

Good question. My take: "Middle America" is a much better term for Ohio and Michigan, which is why the name of our beloved conference is so perfect.

Before the Civil War, Ohio was the West (or, more precisely, the Northwest). Even at the end of the 19th century, the first name chosen by the Big Ten was the "Western Conference."

At some point, though, people came up with "Midwest" to differentiate from the Far West. These two terms are still used by the Associated Press to group football scores. For the AP, the Midwest starts in Ohio and ranges out to Nebraska, I think.

Given that the population center of the United States is in Missouri, "Midwest" feels to me like an old-fashioned way to refer to Ohio or Michigan. But here we are. People still speak of picking up the telephone and getting stuff on tape, too. Language is funny that way.

Thanks for the replies. My thought was based on Continental US, which has 4 time zones and do think of them as Eastern, Central - Mid-West, Mountain - the Rockies and West. When I think of the mid west think along the Mississippi River and Chicago, Kansas City, Nebraska. It was the mid-west looking at this map, which has 1837 time range. But marketing and people evolve. Have heard it a bit from an Ohio fan, that they do indeed relate some to the East. Perhaps there is a split to that depending if you are from the east or south eastern part of Ohio compared to Toledo.

When I was in Arkansas they think themselves as the mid south and then there are the plain states. Was curious how fans from Ohio think of themselves and is it really as mid-westerners.

(08-26-2019 04:22 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks for the replies. My thought was based on Continental US, which has 4 time zones and do think of them as Eastern, Central - Mid-West, Mountain - the Rockies and West. When I think of the mid west think along the Mississippi River and Chicago, Kansas City, Nebraska. It was the mid-west looking at this map, which has 1837 time range. But marketing and people evolve. Have heard it a bit from an Ohio fan, that they do indeed relate some to the East. Perhaps there is a split to that depending if you are from the east or south eastern part of Ohio compared to Toledo.

When I was in Arkansas they think themselves as the mid south and then there are the plain states. Was curious how fans from Ohio think of themselves and is it really as mid-westerners.

I grew up in Columbus, graduated from OSU, then moved to Miami (South Florida) for 12 years, and now live in Chicago. Although much of Ohio compares well with the Midwest, I agree that the people have evolved, and much of it feels more East Coast rather than the true Midwest. People compare Columbus to Chicago and I really do not see how. They are very different cities, different cultures/lifestyles, and attitudes. At the same time, I have noticed many features that similar size cities on the East Coast have in common with Columbus (i.e., Charlotte, Raleigh, Washington D.C., Baltimore to name a few). I would say Columbus has more in common with Boston, Pittsburgh, Philly, or NYC (East Coast) rather than Des Moines, Rapid City, St. Louis, or Lincoln (Midwest).... Just my two cents.

Mid-west refers to the Great Lakes states, minus Pennsylvania and New York, which are East. Mid-west refers to west of the original 13 states, but not west of the Mississippi Riveri. Ohio is considered Mid-West. Yes it's east, but it's not as east of the 13, which is considered the East. Mid-west is split between the East timezone and Central timezone.

Sure you have Columbus, but you also have cities like Cleveland and Toledo that are Rust Belt, like Detroit and Chicago.

Also I don't consider Missouri or Nebraska mid-west. I consider them Plains.


You have:
East (13)
South (pretty much the old Confederacy)
MidWest (the Great Lakes)
Plains (west of the Mississippi but east of the Rockies)
West (border the Pacific)

(08-27-2019 02:57 PM)astr083 Wrote:  

(08-26-2019 04:22 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks for the replies. My thought was based on Continental US, which has 4 time zones and do think of them as Eastern, Central - Mid-West, Mountain - the Rockies and West. When I think of the mid west think along the Mississippi River and Chicago, Kansas City, Nebraska. It was the mid-west looking at this map, which has 1837 time range. But marketing and people evolve. Have heard it a bit from an Ohio fan, that they do indeed relate some to the East. Perhaps there is a split to that depending if you are from the east or south eastern part of Ohio compared to Toledo.

When I was in Arkansas they think themselves as the mid south and then there are the plain states. Was curious how fans from Ohio think of themselves and is it really as mid-westerners.

I grew up in Columbus, graduated from OSU, then moved to Miami (South Florida) for 12 years, and now live in Chicago. Although much of Ohio compares well with the Midwest, I agree that the people have evolved, and much of it feels more East Coast rather than the true Midwest. People compare Columbus to Chicago and I really do not see how. They are very different cities, different cultures/lifestyles, and attitudes. At the same time, I have noticed many features that similar size cities on the East Coast have in common with Columbus (i.e., Charlotte, Raleigh, Washington D.C., Baltimore to name a few). I would say Columbus has more in common with Boston, Pittsburgh, Philly, or NYC (East Coast) rather than Des Moines, Rapid City, St. Louis, or Lincoln (Midwest).... Just my two cents.

I was born in eastern ohio, in what is referred to as the Ohio Valley. The town I was born is 5 miles from WV and about 50 miles to Pittsburgh. There is definitely a mix of Appalachia and an Eastern vibe in that part of Ohio. In fact, many of the people in the region speak an off-shoot of "Pittburghese" (ie. Yinz is used but they also interchange y'uns).

I have also lived in Columbus. Columbus is very much Midwest. Disagree with your comparisons to Boston, Pittsburgh or Philly, it is actually more like Indianapolis. City is dominated by state government, suburban sprawl, rural areas in the exurbs.

Also have lived in Cincinnati for many years of my life. Cincinnati is unique in itself to Ohio. Many of the residents here don't even consider them part of Ohio, they are more like a City-State. Located on the borders of Kentucky and Indiana, there is a strong mixture of Midwest and Southern Flavor. Cincinnati's urban core is also much different than the cities in the rest of the state as it is made of 52 different neighborhoods, most of whom are very distinctively different. Cincinnati actually is a lot more like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Philly and Boston than Columbus.

(08-28-2019 11:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-27-2019 02:57 PM)astr083 Wrote:  

(08-26-2019 04:22 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks for the replies. My thought was based on Continental US, which has 4 time zones and do think of them as Eastern, Central - Mid-West, Mountain - the Rockies and West. When I think of the mid west think along the Mississippi River and Chicago, Kansas City, Nebraska. It was the mid-west looking at this map, which has 1837 time range. But marketing and people evolve. Have heard it a bit from an Ohio fan, that they do indeed relate some to the East. Perhaps there is a split to that depending if you are from the east or south eastern part of Ohio compared to Toledo.

When I was in Arkansas they think themselves as the mid south and then there are the plain states. Was curious how fans from Ohio think of themselves and is it really as mid-westerners.

I grew up in Columbus, graduated from OSU, then moved to Miami (South Florida) for 12 years, and now live in Chicago. Although much of Ohio compares well with the Midwest, I agree that the people have evolved, and much of it feels more East Coast rather than the true Midwest. People compare Columbus to Chicago and I really do not see how. They are very different cities, different cultures/lifestyles, and attitudes. At the same time, I have noticed many features that similar size cities on the East Coast have in common with Columbus (i.e., Charlotte, Raleigh, Washington D.C., Baltimore to name a few). I would say Columbus has more in common with Boston, Pittsburgh, Philly, or NYC (East Coast) rather than Des Moines, Rapid City, St. Louis, or Lincoln (Midwest).... Just my two cents.

I was born in eastern ohio, in what is referred to as the Ohio Valley. The town I was born is 5 miles from WV and about 50 miles to Pittsburgh. There is definitely a mix of Appalachia and an Eastern vibe in that part of Ohio. In fact, many of the people in the region speak an off-shoot of "Pittburghese" (ie. Yinz is used but they also interchange y'uns).

I have also lived in Columbus. Columbus is very much Midwest. Disagree with your comparisons to Boston, Pittsburgh or Philly, it is actually more like Indianapolis. City is dominated by state government, suburban sprawl, rural areas in the exurbs.

Also have lived in Cincinnati for many years of my life. Cincinnati is unique in itself to Ohio. Many of the residents here don't even consider them part of Ohio, they are more like a City-State. Located on the borders of Kentucky and Indiana, there is a strong mixture of Midwest and Southern Flavor. Cincinnati's urban core is also much different than the cities in the rest of the state as it is made of 52 different neighborhoods, most of whom are very distinctively different. Cincinnati actually is a lot more like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Philly and Boston than Columbus.

I grew up outside of Cincinnati, went to school and lived in NE Ohio for about a decade and lived in west central/nw Ohio for another 20 years. All of that supports your analysis. Nicely done.

I can speak a little about the distinction as Southeastern Ohio is right next to West Virginia.

As soon as you cross the border into West Virginia its mid atlantic regional chains, archaic small market mountain town TV stations and a sulfur stench to the air. Its very similar to rural Pennsylvania or even...New Jersey in this regard. I always though the BE was the perfect conference for WVU culturally. Upstate NY is about half way between the Mid Atlantic culture and New England culture.

West Virginia has the skiing, resorts ect. but again very similar to PA in that regard. Southeastern Ohio has none of that either. Even though its close to WV, even with West Virginia television stations in the Ohio dorms surprisingly SEO and WV are two distinctly different places.

Is Ohio a true Midwestern place though? The lifestyle is Midwestern and so are the grocery stores. The Midwest is oriented about trucking grains to its capital Chicago. Ohio has its own economy centered around the 3 C's so its Dirty Midwest. The auto belt spans Ohio from Detroit to Cincinnati, another trade access unaligned with Chicago. Cleveland is also about half way between NYC and Chicago so can easily truck goods both ways.

Ohio and Michigan for that matter are Great Lakes states with their own economy. Get over to Indiana and its very economically tied to Chicago with the Ft. Wayne area as a possible exception. Indianapolis is basically a rail yard and downtown is a little piece of Chicago.

It could be then Ohio/Michigan should be considered Great Lakes states the same way Arizona and New Mexico are the lone completely definable Southwestern states while others share parts of the Southwestern region. Buffalo is a great lakes city located in a Mid Atlantic state.

Southwest is a sub region of the West. In that vein Great Lakes is a sub region of the Midwest. Ohio is different from Nebraska like Louisiana is different from North Carolina. Same region but different sub region.

(08-28-2019 12:45 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(08-28-2019 11:21 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-27-2019 02:57 PM)astr083 Wrote:  

(08-26-2019 04:22 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Thanks for the replies. My thought was based on Continental US, which has 4 time zones and do think of them as Eastern, Central - Mid-West, Mountain - the Rockies and West. When I think of the mid west think along the Mississippi River and Chicago, Kansas City, Nebraska. It was the mid-west looking at this map, which has 1837 time range. But marketing and people evolve. Have heard it a bit from an Ohio fan, that they do indeed relate some to the East. Perhaps there is a split to that depending if you are from the east or south eastern part of Ohio compared to Toledo.

When I was in Arkansas they think themselves as the mid south and then there are the plain states. Was curious how fans from Ohio think of themselves and is it really as mid-westerners.

I grew up in Columbus, graduated from OSU, then moved to Miami (South Florida) for 12 years, and now live in Chicago. Although much of Ohio compares well with the Midwest, I agree that the people have evolved, and much of it feels more East Coast rather than the true Midwest. People compare Columbus to Chicago and I really do not see how. They are very different cities, different cultures/lifestyles, and attitudes. At the same time, I have noticed many features that similar size cities on the East Coast have in common with Columbus (i.e., Charlotte, Raleigh, Washington D.C., Baltimore to name a few). I would say Columbus has more in common with Boston, Pittsburgh, Philly, or NYC (East Coast) rather than Des Moines, Rapid City, St. Louis, or Lincoln (Midwest).... Just my two cents.

I was born in eastern ohio, in what is referred to as the Ohio Valley. The town I was born is 5 miles from WV and about 50 miles to Pittsburgh. There is definitely a mix of Appalachia and an Eastern vibe in that part of Ohio. In fact, many of the people in the region speak an off-shoot of "Pittburghese" (ie. Yinz is used but they also interchange y'uns).

I have also lived in Columbus. Columbus is very much Midwest. Disagree with your comparisons to Boston, Pittsburgh or Philly, it is actually more like Indianapolis. City is dominated by state government, suburban sprawl, rural areas in the exurbs.

Also have lived in Cincinnati for many years of my life. Cincinnati is unique in itself to Ohio. Many of the residents here don't even consider them part of Ohio, they are more like a City-State. Located on the borders of Kentucky and Indiana, there is a strong mixture of Midwest and Southern Flavor. Cincinnati's urban core is also much different than the cities in the rest of the state as it is made of 52 different neighborhoods, most of whom are very distinctively different. Cincinnati actually is a lot more like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Philly and Boston than Columbus.

I grew up outside of Cincinnati, went to school and lived in NE Ohio for about a decade and lived in west central/nw Ohio for another 20 years. All of that supports your analysis. Nicely done.

There is Ohio and the Miami Valley within the state is its own sub region.

Miami Valley had its own canal and immigration pattern. Its more distinct than SE Ohio is regardless of the hilly terrain which is across most of eastern Ohio anyway.

NW Ohio is autobelt and in between Detroit and Cincinnati and is not Chicago centric though Toledo has a fair amount of warehouses for support logistics in between Chicago and Cleveland by rail and turnpike. Logistics business to me is very Midwestern so Toledo to me is the most pure midwestern city in Ohio.

Columbus is a mixture of the different regions of Ohio. There is affluent suburbs like Cleveland. There is a German village like SW Ohio heritage. Its a gateway to SE Ohio heading south from the city. It has the agriculture school Ohio State that is an attraction for the farming base of the state.

Some think Columbus is the upper crust of the state with its white collar economy. Others see Cleveland is the center of sophistication or Cincinnati as a city with character on top of the state. This opinion as to what is best usually depends on which city you grew up nearest to.

Its not like Illinois where an aspiring grad from Southern Illinois will exclusively gravitate to Chicago for a career. Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus.....Dayton has some employers. Its where the top tier employers are.

You don't go from the Cincinnati suburbs down to Youngstown to relocate for a job. Grads migrate to a city with a top tier employer or a city that is bigger than what you are previously from. A kid from a small town near BG can graduate BG and move onto Toledo for a job but that doesn't happen in reverse. People want to trade up to bigger metros with better shopping and more services, an issue across many parts of the state.

I don't agree with this, but here we are.

https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/08/whe...lt/597082/

(08-26-2019 01:38 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Given that the population center of the United States is in Missouri, "Midwest" feels to me like an old-fashioned way to refer to Ohio or Michigan. ...

What gave my Dad a kick was when they would refer to Ohio/Michigan as the "Industrial Midwest". He was born in South Dakota, he'd go, "you mean the RV factories in Iowa?"