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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 04:19 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  They need to chip away at the problem if they want to actually solve it. If they continue on this path, we're going to be headed into 2018 with not just healthcare worries, but healthcare anxiety.

The democrats need to take this as a chance to offer the president some support. Based off of Trump's past statements, he is in for universal healthcare. Maybe a primary care public option? You can do the bill in less than 20 pages. It will go a long way toward uniting the country.

If you believe that, I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you. Also, based on his past statements, President Obama was anti-gay marriage. So past statements mean nothing. Less than nothing.
07-18-2017 07:29 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 06:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I seriously question the sanity of people who are not only willing but enthusiastic about giving the corporate monopoly both more of their hard earned money and control over their lives, and when it comes to corporate monopolistic funded and run healthcare they are literally giving some faceless, unaccountable analyst in HQ control over their health.

#1 There is no corporate monopoly. If I don't like my insurance policy I am able to shop around for one I like better. When the government has control that will truly be a monopoly.

#2 The mythical corporate monopoly doesn't have control over my life. If I don't like a decision they make I can change companies, and if they deny coverage I can pay for it myself. Just look at the Charlie Gard situation for how much control you have under socialized medicine.

So sorry about setting fire to your little strawman like that.
07-18-2017 07:31 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #43
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 06:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I seriously question the sanity of people who are not only willing but enthusiastic about giving the corporate monopoly both more of their hard earned money and control over their lives, and when it comes to corporate monopolistic funded and run healthcare they are literally giving some faceless, unaccountable analyst in HQ control over their health.

I seriously question the sanity of people who are not only willing about giving the government monopoly (the only true monopoly we have) both more of their hard earned money and more control over their lives. I particularly question the wisdom of giving some unelected and unaccountable bureaucrat control over their health.

I'd rather take my chances with profit-seeking corporations than with government.
07-18-2017 09:17 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 07:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  #1 There is no corporate monopoly. If I don't like my insurance policy I am able to shop around for one I like better. When the government has control that will truly be a monopoly.

#2 The mythical corporate monopoly doesn't have control over my life. If I don't like a decision they make I can change companies, and if they deny coverage I can pay for it myself.

You can do those things with a public option, too.


(07-18-2017 09:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'd rather take my chances with profit-seeking corporations than with government.

Well don't expect sympathy from me when your faith in "the market" isn't rewarded because the corporation decided to deny your claim in order to increase its profits.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017 09:29 PM by MplsBison.)
07-18-2017 09:28 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #45
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 09:28 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 09:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'd rather take my chances with profit-seeking corporations than with government.
Well don't expect sympathy from me when your faith in "the market" isn't rewarded because the corporation decided to deny your claim in order to increase its profits.

Well, don't expect sympathy from me when the government tells you to take a number and come back in three years, because thy've already used up all of the treatments that you need, that were put into this year's budget. Or when they say, "Oh, you're 65, haven't you lived long enough?"
07-18-2017 09:42 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 06:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I seriously question the sanity of people who are not only willing but enthusiastic about giving the corporate monopoly both more of their hard earned money and control over their lives, and when it comes to corporate monopolistic funded and run healthcare they are literally giving some faceless, unaccountable analyst in HQ control over their health.

I have the same questions about people that what the government to have more of their money and more control of their lives. When has the government ever been held accountable Bison? I think anyone that believes that faceless government bureaucrats have their best interests at heart is fully certifiably insane.
07-18-2017 09:49 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 07:29 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 04:19 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  They need to chip away at the problem if they want to actually solve it. If they continue on this path, we're going to be headed into 2018 with not just healthcare worries, but healthcare anxiety.

The democrats need to take this as a chance to offer the president some support. Based off of Trump's past statements, he is in for universal healthcare. Maybe a primary care public option? You can do the bill in less than 20 pages. It will go a long way toward uniting the country.

If you believe that, I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you. Also, based on his past statements, President Obama was anti-gay marriage. So past statements mean nothing. Less than nothing.

I think it would go a long way. You don't have to get it, yet it would be an option. If democrats get behind it, it brings one side and if Trump gets behind it, it'll bring his masses without question. Win/Win.

It's better than steadily separating the country.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017 10:03 PM by nomad2u2001.)
07-18-2017 09:59 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Health care
posted the following in the gop senator thread....this is where she belongs........
_______________________________

I'll just ask the 'board laureates' two simple questions....

why not just implement tort reform and eliminate state controlled insurers? those two alone would increase price competition across the board.....

seems pretty dayum simple to me....but I'm just the village idiot....

dem lobbyists would shite their britches if that were to happen....

congress is a shitehole across the board.....

Bismark - Pissmark......not one decision maker is talking about any of that bs.....

nat'l healthcare is the same as 5.00/gal......it's a crippler....

rant over.....
07-19-2017 02:54 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 09:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 09:28 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 09:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'd rather take my chances with profit-seeking corporations than with government.
Well don't expect sympathy from me when your faith in "the market" isn't rewarded because the corporation decided to deny your claim in order to increase its profits.

Well, don't expect sympathy from me when the government tells you to take a number and come back in three years, because thy've already used up all of the treatments that you need, that were put into this year's budget. Or when they say, "Oh, you're 65, haven't you lived long enough?"

it's going to happen regardless when the money runs out,......it doesn't make two shites what the plan is as long as it's subsidized to whatever degree....

y'all can kiss my lily white one on this......

sometimes people just need to suffer or die.....that's how we got to this point...it wasn't via pacification....

all I see now is simply a bunch of spoiled little biatches.....

we ignore the ones that serve/protect our "freedom" and subsidize the lazy motherfuckers they fight for.....that's one ****** up system....

what good does it serve the whole as the life expectancy of the avg. human continues to rise in a USD based economy???

answer those.....good fk'n luck....you won't want to hear my rebuttal.....
07-19-2017 03:05 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Health care
7 years of being told they would repeal it. Same ol dance

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07-19-2017 06:53 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #51
RE: Health care
When they took over the house after the 2010 elections, the first day they should have passed Bismarck health care and either Bowles-Simpson or Domenici-Rivlin or the best of both, by voice vote, and sent them to the senate for Reid and Obama to have to deal with. But that would have demonstrated leadership, something republicans lack. That lack of leadership is how we ended up with Trump.

Boehner, McConnell, and the rest of the republican "leadership" couldn't lead a sex fiend to a whorehouse.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2017 07:22 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
07-19-2017 07:14 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Health care
http://www.realclearhealth.com/articles/...10676.html

GOP and health care reality. Of course the author has his own problem with reality. His solution flies in the face of the reality that the Democrats are in a mode to destroy Trump, not to work with him or anyone associated with him.

"...To get a better result with a renewed push, the GOP should include willing Democratic senators in the conversation. The party should understand that the goal should be a plan that costs less, reduces regulations, and injects serious market discipline into the system, even while ensuring all Americans have ready access to insurance. That may mean finding a compromise approach on giving individuals strong incentives to enroll in health insurance. The party should also work with GOP governors to find a reasonable and affordable compromise on Medicaid, one that provides for significant reform of the program, with more state control and clear federal budgetary restraints, while also providing a safety net to all Americans with incomes below the poverty line.
It would have been easier, and more fruitful, to pursue a bipartisan deal of this kind in the weeks after the election. That was when Republicans had the most power. But they have still have some leverage. They should use it when the time is right to begin the process of moving the health policy in a direction more to their liking. That will inevitably be less satisfying to some than writing a bill entirely on their own because of the compromises that will be necessary, but this kind of legislation would be far more likely to pass, and also survive when political control inevitably changes again."
07-19-2017 09:19 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Health care
(07-19-2017 07:14 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  When they took over the house after the 2010 elections, the first day they should have passed Bismarck health care and either Bowles-Simpson or Domenici-Rivlin or the best of both, by voice vote, and sent them to the senate for Reid and Obama to have to deal with. But that would have demonstrated leadership, something republicans lack. That lack of leadership is how we ended up with Trump.

Boehner, McConnell, and the rest of the republican "leadership" couldn't lead a sex fiend to a whorehouse.

no questioning the bold....

I see a much simpler resolution to the former......however, almost nobody wants to discuss that....I'm tired of repeating myself....

please explain why we NEED a nat'l health care system....

please explain how tort reform and eliminating state legislated insurers isn't a good thing for CARE....

#KEYWORDS

address just those two items.....that would be nice....

you guys talk about cost but ignore the root.....
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2017 09:41 AM by stinkfist.)
07-19-2017 09:34 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Health care
http://www.investors.com/politics/editor...obamacare/

"Health Reform: There were lots of celebrations on the left side of the aisle after the Senate GOP bill to repeal and replace ObamaCare died. The good times will be short lived, because one way or another ObamaCare is going away, and it's not at all clear that Democrats will gain additional leverage over what comes next by waiting for its collapse."

Leverage isn't their goal. Winning back the House, Senate and White House is their goal. That's why cooperation is unlikely. In the meantime:

"...here's what was actually happening with ObamaCare.
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services reports that the number of insurers applying to participate in ObamaCare exchanges next year plunged by 38% compared with last year, and is half what it was in 2016.
CMS also reported that 40 counties in Indiana, Ohio and Nevada are at risk of having zero insurance companies in their ObamaCare exchanges next year. The Kaiser Family Foundation put the number of at-risk counties at 38.
In addition, CMS reported that 2.4 million enrollees in 40% of the nation's counties will have just one insurance company in their area.
The average increase in premiums next year for a Silver plan in eight states will be 18%, according to Avalere. One of the last ObamaCare insurers in Iowa has put in for a 43.5% hike. In Washington state, the average boost is 22%. In Tennessee, the proposed rate hikes range from 21% to 42%. And so on.
As we noted before in this space, these insurance defections and gargantuan rate hikes have nothing to do with the Republican's repeal effort, but with the continued deterioration of the ObamaCare markets.
States are also starting to struggle with the costs of ObamaCare's "free" Medicaid expansion. A report from the National Association of State Budget Offices said that the expansion will cost states nearly $9 billion next year, more than twice what it cost in 2016.
CMS reports that the per capita costs of the Medicaid expansion are 50% higher than expected.
Arkansas scaled back its Medicaid expansion in May, and Ohio lawmakers voted in June to freeze the expansion in that state. Oregon's Medicaid expansion contributed a $1.6 billion gap in the state's budget. In California, the Medicaid expansion will cost the state $1.3 billion this year, putting additional strain on the state's budget...."
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2017 09:35 AM by bullet.)
07-19-2017 09:35 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Health care
(07-19-2017 09:35 AM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.investors.com/politics/editor...obamacare/

"Health Reform: There were lots of celebrations on the left side of the aisle after the Senate GOP bill to repeal and replace ObamaCare died. The good times will be short lived, because one way or another ObamaCare is going away, and it's not at all clear that Democrats will gain additional leverage over what comes next by waiting for its collapse."

Leverage isn't their goal. Winning back the House, Senate and White House is their goal. That's why cooperation is unlikely. In the meantime:

"...here's what was actually happening with ObamaCare.
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services reports that the number of insurers applying to participate in ObamaCare exchanges next year plunged by 38% compared with last year, and is half what it was in 2016.
CMS also reported that 40 counties in Indiana, Ohio and Nevada are at risk of having zero insurance companies in their ObamaCare exchanges next year. The Kaiser Family Foundation put the number of at-risk counties at 38.
In addition, CMS reported that 2.4 million enrollees in 40% of the nation's counties will have just one insurance company in their area.
The average increase in premiums next year for a Silver plan in eight states will be 18%, according to Avalere. One of the last ObamaCare insurers in Iowa has put in for a 43.5% hike. In Washington state, the average boost is 22%. In Tennessee, the proposed rate hikes range from 21% to 42%. And so on.
As we noted before in this space, these insurance defections and gargantuan rate hikes have nothing to do with the Republican's repeal effort, but with the continued deterioration of the ObamaCare markets.
States are also starting to struggle with the costs of ObamaCare's "free" Medicaid expansion. A report from the National Association of State Budget Offices said that the expansion will cost states nearly $9 billion next year, more than twice what it cost in 2016.
CMS reports that the per capita costs of the Medicaid expansion are 50% higher than expected.
Arkansas scaled back its Medicaid expansion in May, and Ohio lawmakers voted in June to freeze the expansion in that state. Oregon's Medicaid expansion contributed a $1.6 billion gap in the state's budget. In California, the Medicaid expansion will cost the state $1.3 billion this year, putting additional strain on the state's budget...."

bad news is sometimes good.....

fuck0care is all that needs to happen at this point....
07-19-2017 09:39 AM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #56
RE: Health care
Nevada having trouble with Obamacare??? They are a blue state??!!!!

But Obamacare is working in blue states, its just the red states where they are sabotaging it where it is not working.

"Free" Medicaid expansion causing major budget shortfalls????

man that is a surprise!
07-19-2017 09:41 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Health care
(07-18-2017 09:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Well, don't expect sympathy from me when the government tells you to take a number and come back in three years

In such a case, I just wouldn't use a public option.

Because I don't and have never advocated for any such 100% government owned/operated healthcare system.


(07-18-2017 09:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think anyone that believes that faceless government bureaucrats have their best interests at heart is fully certifiably insane.

I think anyone that believes that faceless corporate profit trackers have their best interests at heart is fully certifiably insane.


Here's an idea: maybe instead of bantering back and forth about the polar ends of the spectrum ... we can realize that the optimal solution is often somewhere in the middle! 03-idea 03-idea


(07-19-2017 09:34 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  ignore the root.....

The actual root is the outrageous price of healthcare service, supplies, devices, and pills.

You can debate payment systems until the cows come home .... they all fail, eventually, without price controls.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2017 09:43 AM by MplsBison.)
07-19-2017 09:42 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Health care
Look at this, a call for an actual, bipartisan effort to help the situation. And which state is already leading the way, do we think?

Quote:With the collapse of a Senate effort to repeal Obamacare, Minnesota health and business leaders called on Congress Tuesday to repair the existing law — specifically to stabilize insurance markets and address rising health care costs and premiums.

“Maybe we can get to some bipartisanship here that puts people before politics,” said Dr. Penny Wheeler , chief of executive of Minneapolis-based Allina Health System . “I think this gives us a chance to do that.”

Michael Guyette , chief executive of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Minnesota , the state’s biggest health insurer, said a large federal program like the Affordable Care Act needs continual fixes and adjustments to make it more effective.

“It takes time to adjust these programs,” said Guyette. “We never got a chance to fix what came out of Obamacare.”

Specifically, several said Washington should approve a reinsurance program like that authorized by the Minnesota Legislature last session, which would set the stage for more affordable premiums by buffering some of the risk undertaken by private insurers in unpredictable health markets.

“No matter what was going to happen at the federal level, that needed to happen, STAT, to stabilize our insurance market,” said Bentley Graves of the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce.

The reinsurance plan would use government funds to offset the high costs of the sickest patients who buy individual health plans on the state exchange. That would in turn allow health plans to keep their premiums lower.
07-19-2017 09:45 AM
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UofMstateU Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Health care
(07-19-2017 09:45 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Look at this, a call for an actual, bipartisan effort to help the situation. And which state is already leading the way, do we think?

So now that all of you grubers admit Obamacare is a failing piece of sh*t, we'll repeal it, then we can get together on whats next.
07-19-2017 09:53 AM
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Post: #60
RE: Health care
(07-19-2017 09:42 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(07-18-2017 09:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Well, don't expect sympathy from me when the government tells you to take a number and come back in three years

In such a case, I just wouldn't use a public option.

Because I don't and have never advocated for any such 100% government owned/operated healthcare system.


(07-18-2017 09:49 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think anyone that believes that faceless government bureaucrats have their best interests at heart is fully certifiably insane.

I think anyone that believes that faceless corporate profit trackers have their best interests at heart is fully certifiably insane.


Here's an idea: maybe instead of bantering back and forth about the polar ends of the spectrum ... we can realize that the optimal solution is often somewhere in the middle! 03-idea 03-idea


(07-19-2017 09:34 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  ignore the root.....

The actual root is the outrageous price of healthcare service, supplies, devices, and pills.

You can debate payment systems until the cows come home .... they all fail, eventually, without price controls.

competition across state lines and tort reform solves that problem in my equations.....you can disagree....however, I'd enjoy hearing that rebuttal....

you can harp gov't controlled pricing 'til the cows come home....that'll only milk other subsidies....
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2017 09:54 AM by stinkfist.)
07-19-2017 09:53 AM
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