(07-11-2017 02:30 PM)banker Wrote:  Wage stagnation goes hand in hand with the women entering the workforce in great numbers. It's supply and demand, you double the workforce and each member becomes less valuable. I truly believe that if we went back to one earner households that the upward wage pressure would lead to the remaining income eventually equaling the previous two incomes. Plus you eliminate childcare costs, eat at home more, etc. which would actually raise living standards.

Well smaller generations have followed the boomers and labor force participation is the lowest it has been since the 70s, but wages are still stagnant for the middle class.

(07-11-2017 02:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:30 PM)banker Wrote:  Wage stagnation goes hand in hand with the women entering the workforce in great numbers. It's supply and demand, you double the workforce and each member becomes less valuable. I truly believe that if we went back to one earner households that the upward wage pressure would lead to the remaining income eventually equaling the previous two incomes. Plus you eliminate childcare costs, eat at home more, etc. which would actually raise living standards.

Well smaller generations have followed the boomers and labor force participation is the lowest it has been since the 70s, but wages are still stagnant for the middle class.

Its not the demographics. Its the manufacturing. Manufacturing jobs are generally the best jobs for blue collar workers. They also tend to create more "ripple jobs". When you sell a bond, the buyer gets interest and the seller gets a commission. When you sell a washing machine, the sheet metal manufacturers make money. The screw companies make money. The electric motor company makes money. The wire companies make money. The plastic fabrication plants make money. The miners make money. There are just more economic ripples from manufacturing activity than there are in service activity.

In the past, manufacturing is where much of the middle class (especially those with no college degrees) derived their income. Since the 1980's, we have steadily shifted manufacturing overseas in exchange for lower inflation and cheaper prices. Its the main reason you're seeing the wage stagnation your getting.

(07-11-2017 03:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:30 PM)banker Wrote:  Wage stagnation goes hand in hand with the women entering the workforce in great numbers. It's supply and demand, you double the workforce and each member becomes less valuable. I truly believe that if we went back to one earner households that the upward wage pressure would lead to the remaining income eventually equaling the previous two incomes. Plus you eliminate childcare costs, eat at home more, etc. which would actually raise living standards.

Well smaller generations have followed the boomers and labor force participation is the lowest it has been since the 70s, but wages are still stagnant for the middle class.

Its not the demographics. Its the manufacturing. Manufacturing jobs are generally the best jobs for blue collar workers. They also tend to create more "ripple jobs". When you sell a bond, the buyer gets interest and the seller gets a commission. When you sell a washing machine, the sheet metal manufacturers make money. The screw companies make money. The electric motor company makes money. The wire companies make money. The plastic fabrication plants make money. The miners make money. There are just more economic ripples from manufacturing activity than there are in service activity.

In the past, manufacturing is where much of the middle class (especially those with no college degrees) derived their income. Since the 1980's, we have steadily shifted manufacturing overseas in exchange for lower inflation and cheaper prices. Its the main reason you're seeing the wage stagnation your getting.

I think you are seeing the same thing in lots of jobs, not just manufacturing. Teachers, police officers, retail managers....

International competition does have something to do with it. Indian engineers and accountants are doing work in India that American workers would have done before, not to mention the call center employees.

(07-11-2017 05:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 03:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:30 PM)banker Wrote:  Wage stagnation goes hand in hand with the women entering the workforce in great numbers. It's supply and demand, you double the workforce and each member becomes less valuable. I truly believe that if we went back to one earner households that the upward wage pressure would lead to the remaining income eventually equaling the previous two incomes. Plus you eliminate childcare costs, eat at home more, etc. which would actually raise living standards.

Well smaller generations have followed the boomers and labor force participation is the lowest it has been since the 70s, but wages are still stagnant for the middle class.

Its not the demographics. Its the manufacturing. Manufacturing jobs are generally the best jobs for blue collar workers. They also tend to create more "ripple jobs". When you sell a bond, the buyer gets interest and the seller gets a commission. When you sell a washing machine, the sheet metal manufacturers make money. The screw companies make money. The electric motor company makes money. The wire companies make money. The plastic fabrication plants make money. The miners make money. There are just more economic ripples from manufacturing activity than there are in service activity.

In the past, manufacturing is where much of the middle class (especially those with no college degrees) derived their income. Since the 1980's, we have steadily shifted manufacturing overseas in exchange for lower inflation and cheaper prices. Its the main reason you're seeing the wage stagnation your getting.

I think you are seeing the same thing in lots of jobs, not just manufacturing. Teachers, police officers, retail managers....

International competition does have something to do with it. Indian engineers and accountants are doing work in India that American workers would have done before, not to mention the call center employees.

all of those values are set by tangibles.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(07-11-2017 05:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 03:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:30 PM)banker Wrote:  Wage stagnation goes hand in hand with the women entering the workforce in great numbers. It's supply and demand, you double the workforce and each member becomes less valuable. I truly believe that if we went back to one earner households that the upward wage pressure would lead to the remaining income eventually equaling the previous two incomes. Plus you eliminate childcare costs, eat at home more, etc. which would actually raise living standards.

Well smaller generations have followed the boomers and labor force participation is the lowest it has been since the 70s, but wages are still stagnant for the middle class.

Its not the demographics. Its the manufacturing. Manufacturing jobs are generally the best jobs for blue collar workers. They also tend to create more "ripple jobs". When you sell a bond, the buyer gets interest and the seller gets a commission. When you sell a washing machine, the sheet metal manufacturers make money. The screw companies make money. The electric motor company makes money. The wire companies make money. The plastic fabrication plants make money. The miners make money. There are just more economic ripples from manufacturing activity than there are in service activity.

In the past, manufacturing is where much of the middle class (especially those with no college degrees) derived their income. Since the 1980's, we have steadily shifted manufacturing overseas in exchange for lower inflation and cheaper prices. Its the main reason you're seeing the wage stagnation your getting.

I think you are seeing the same thing in lots of jobs, not just manufacturing. Teachers, police officers, retail managers....

International competition does have something to do with it. Indian engineers and accountants are doing work in India that American workers would have done before, not to mention the call center employees.

Perhaps. But the job growth in the US just isn't offering as many middle class opportunities as it used to. Last months job growth numbers exceeded expectations. That was the headline. The real story was inside those numbers----the two biggest job growth categories last month were waiters and bartenders. Your not going to see wage growth until manufacturing is at the top of that list.

(07-11-2017 08:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 05:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 03:17 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 02:30 PM)banker Wrote:  Wage stagnation goes hand in hand with the women entering the workforce in great numbers. It's supply and demand, you double the workforce and each member becomes less valuable. I truly believe that if we went back to one earner households that the upward wage pressure would lead to the remaining income eventually equaling the previous two incomes. Plus you eliminate childcare costs, eat at home more, etc. which would actually raise living standards.

Well smaller generations have followed the boomers and labor force participation is the lowest it has been since the 70s, but wages are still stagnant for the middle class.

Its not the demographics. Its the manufacturing. Manufacturing jobs are generally the best jobs for blue collar workers. They also tend to create more "ripple jobs". When you sell a bond, the buyer gets interest and the seller gets a commission. When you sell a washing machine, the sheet metal manufacturers make money. The screw companies make money. The electric motor company makes money. The wire companies make money. The plastic fabrication plants make money. The miners make money. There are just more economic ripples from manufacturing activity than there are in service activity.

In the past, manufacturing is where much of the middle class (especially those with no college degrees) derived their income. Since the 1980's, we have steadily shifted manufacturing overseas in exchange for lower inflation and cheaper prices. Its the main reason you're seeing the wage stagnation your getting.

I think you are seeing the same thing in lots of jobs, not just manufacturing. Teachers, police officers, retail managers....

International competition does have something to do with it. Indian engineers and accountants are doing work in India that American workers would have done before, not to mention the call center employees.

Perhaps. But the job growth in the US just isn't offering as many middle class opportunities as it used to. Last months job growth numbers exceeded expectations. That was the headline. The real story was inside those numbers----the two biggest job growth categories last month were waiters and bartenders. Your not going to see wage growth until manufacturing is at the top of that list.

And manufacturing will become more and more automated as we move forward into the next decade. It's going to get ugly in similar industries unless newer industries emerge that don't require manual labor.

Everything is about to get a lot tougher. Between driverless vehicles, automated factories, general purpose artificial intelligence, and 3D additive printing. Where are the jobs supposed to be? People on this very board scoff at the thought of Universal Basic Income. But the reality is that there are young men and women. That will go to college this fall to become Accountants or Lawyers and by the time they graduate. They won't simply be unemployed. They will be unemployable!


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/19/techn...gence.html

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/robots-wil...ting-jobs/

(07-11-2017 09:46 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Everything is about to get a lot tougher. Between driverless vehicles, automated factories, general purpose artificial intelligence, and 3D additive printing. Where are the jobs supposed to be? People on this very board scoff at the thought of Universal Basic Income. But the reality is that there are young men and women. That will go to college this fall to become Accountants or Lawyers and by the time they graduate. They won't simply be unemployed. They will be unemployable!


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/19/techn...gence.html

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/robots-wil...ting-jobs/

I think that future is way more than 4 years off---but ultimately you are going to be correct.

As the opportunities for the HS graduate become less and less, the barrier becomes higher and higher. High Schools had it right when they were teaching Home Ec and various shops and we should've spent more time trying to create skilled vocational students to hopefully offset companies leaving.

As far as the article, while the upbringing is an interesting topic to discuss and the book on lifestyle barriers seems like an interesting read, they are both just filler to make an article. Zoning has a good deal to do with it in certain places though.

(07-11-2017 09:46 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Everything is about to get a lot tougher. Between driverless vehicles, automated factories, general purpose artificial intelligence, and 3D additive printing. Where are the jobs supposed to be? People on this very board scoff at the thought of Universal Basic Income. But the reality is that there are young men and women. That will go to college this fall to become Accountants or Lawyers and by the time they graduate. They won't simply be unemployed. They will be unemployable!


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/19/techn...gence.html

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/robots-wil...ting-jobs/

Best thing to do for your kids is throw away the dumbphones and video games. The most important skillset moving forward is going to be the ability to relate and grow a network. The only job computers, AI, robotics, and foreign sweatshop labor can't kill is sales.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Whaaaaaah, the future's scary!

I have never heard so much whining. Richest generation in the history of the world, and everybody's afraid because they can't draw a check as bolt guy "3 on the assembly line.

How about sucking it up and studying biochemistrywhile you're still in high school.

High school doesn't teach it?

Then get on the freaking internet and start googling.

Jumpin Je*** on a pogo stick, its like Americans have gone full blown bubble heads.

(07-12-2017 05:21 AM)bubbapt Wrote:  Whaaaaaah, the future's scary!

I have never heard so much whining. Richest generation in the history of the world, and everybody's afraid because they can't draw a check as bolt guy "3 on the assembly line.

How about sucking it up and studying biochemistrywhile you're still in high school.

High school doesn't teach it?

Then get on the freaking internet and start googling.

Jumpin Je*** on a pogo stick, its like Americans have gone full blown bubble heads.

You are always going to have your 10% that succeed no matter what and your 10% that fail no matter what. The middle 80% are uo for grabs. Im definitely middle 80% but Im almist 40 and have carved out a niche I can take to the grave. I have 3 kids. Not worried about the first... he is top 10% material. Second is only 21 months old so we'll see. The 3rd is in the womb. Concern for the future =/= whining.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(07-12-2017 05:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(07-12-2017 05:21 AM)bubbapt Wrote:  Whaaaaaah, the future's scary!

I have never heard so much whining. Richest generation in the history of the world, and everybody's afraid because they can't draw a check as bolt guy "3 on the assembly line.

How about sucking it up and studying biochemistrywhile you're still in high school.

High school doesn't teach it?

Then get on the freaking internet and start googling.

Jumpin Je*** on a pogo stick, its like Americans have gone full blown bubble heads.

You are always going to have your 10% that succeed no matter what and your 10% that fail no matter what. The middle 80% are uo for grabs. Im definitely middle 80% but Im almist 40 and have carved out a niche I can take to the grave. I have 3 kids. Not worried about the first... he is top 10% material. Second is only 21 months old so we'll see. The 3rd is in the womb. Concern for the future =/= whining.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Make sure the schools that you send your kids to are apart of this program. https://www.pltw.org/ .

(07-11-2017 10:51 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  F' "barriers."

Here is all you need to join the middle class:

Graduate high school
Get married
Have kids only after getting married.

Boom. Middle class.

Beat me to it... According the the Brookings institute, of the people who do these things only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class defined as earning around $55,000 or more per year...

The main Barrier to getting into the midddle class is poor decision making.

(07-11-2017 11:35 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  As the opportunities for the HS graduate become less and less, the barrier becomes higher and higher. High Schools had it right when they were teaching Home Ec and various shops and we should've spent more time trying to create skilled vocational students to hopefully offset companies leaving.

As far as the article, while the upbringing is an interesting topic to discuss and the book on lifestyle barriers seems like an interesting read, they are both just filler to make an article. Zoning has a good deal to do with it in certain places though.

And a lot of people aren't suited for college. Only 30% have a college degree and more than 60% have no college at all.

(07-12-2017 08:23 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-11-2017 11:35 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  As the opportunities for the HS graduate become less and less, the barrier becomes higher and higher. High Schools had it right when they were teaching Home Ec and various shops and we should've spent more time trying to create skilled vocational students to hopefully offset companies leaving.

As far as the article, while the upbringing is an interesting topic to discuss and the book on lifestyle barriers seems like an interesting read, they are both just filler to make an article. Zoning has a good deal to do with it in certain places though.

And a lot of people aren't suited for college. Only 30% have a college degree and more than 60% have no college at all.

Agreed, which is why we need to nurture trades and bring back manufacturing.

The division of labour in a modern society does not need everybody to be a biochemist.

The basic foundation of an economy is the creation of something, not servicing the servicers.

We need manufacturing back. The biggest lie told to the American people in the last 40 years was that globalism was good for them.

(07-12-2017 10:23 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The division of labour in a modern society does not need everybody to be a biochemist.

The basic foundation of an economy is the creation of something, not servicing the servicers.

We need manufacturing back. The biggest lie told to the American people in the last 40 years was that globalism was good for them.

Globalism is good for the most part. But you can't have the same group of people be the losers all the time. And you can't put US interests below those of foreign countries.

https://moneyish.com/ish/this-is-the-mos...dium=MONEY

"This major comes with major regret.
More than half (54.3%) of people who majored in English say they are not satisfied with that choice of major, according to a survey conducted by career training site Trade-Schools.net — making it the most regretted college major in America, at least in this survey. And many English majors say as much.

The English major is closely followed by a fine arts major (51.6%) and a political science major (38.2%) as the most regretted.

Meanwhile, accounting is the major people say they are most satisfied with (just 14.8% say they weren’t satisfied), followed by computer science (15%) and information technology (21.1%). And people who graduate with degrees in science, math or technology are the least likely to say they’d switch career fields entirely."

Can we talk about the biggest barrier--the 800lb gorilla in the room? Public K-12 education