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ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
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Wilkie01 Offline
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ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
Pittsburgh 1787 35,330
North Carolina 1789 26,878
Louisville 1798 22,000

Virginia 1819 20,399
Wake Forest 1834 7,152
Duke 1838 6,247
Notre Dame 1842 11,985
Florida State 1857 41,000
Boston College 1863 14,500
Syracuse 1870 21,029
Virginia Tech 1872 33,170
Georgia Tech 1885 19,333
North Carolina State 1887 29,957
Clemson 1889 19,453
Miami 1925 15,520
07-06-2017 11:42 AM
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 11:42 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Pittsburgh 1787 35,330
North Carolina 1789 26,878
Louisville 1798 22,000

Virginia 1819 20,399
Wake Forest 1834 7,152
Duke 1838 6,247
Notre Dame 1842 11,985
Florida State 1857 41,000
Boston College 1863 14,500
Syracuse 1870 21,029
Virginia Tech 1872 33,170
Georgia Tech 1885 19,333
North Carolina State 1887 29,957
Clemson 1889 19,453
Miami 1925 15,520

Thanks.

Florida State's official founding date is 1851. That's the year both Florida State and UF were authorized in the same act of legislation as the West and East Suwannee Seminaries. 1857 is the year the West Suwannee Seminary opened.

Comparing founding dates can be a matter of comparing apples to oranges. Schools count from founding documents, particular incarnations, when the doors opened... many ways.
07-06-2017 12:35 PM
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mj4life Offline
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
Are these numbers undergrad only or total enrollment? UNC's looks like total enrollment since the university has less than 19,000 undergrads
07-06-2017 12:49 PM
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
University of Louisville was originally founded as the Jefferson Seminary in 1798, however it wasn't until the 1840's that the Seminary folded/merged with the Louisville Medical and Law colleges to form the University of Louisville.

Random tidbit, UofL was the first city-owned public University. It didn't join the state University system until the late 1960's.
07-06-2017 12:54 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 12:54 PM)TopperCard Wrote:  University of Louisville was originally founded as the Jefferson Seminary in 1798, however it wasn't until the 1840's that the Seminary folded/merged with the Louisville Medical and Law colleges to form the University of Louisville.

Random tidbit, UofL was the first city-owned public University. It didn't join the state University system until the late 1960's.

UL's historic status drives me nuts. Parts of the website claim that it was public, and other parts claim that it was private. Frustratingly, as do a number of UL fans that I've encountered over the years. And a number of the various reasons/justifications as to its status that I've heard are also contradictory. For example, I've heard people claim that it was private because the city owned it (which would make it public).

My best guess is that the U of L itself has always been public, albeit owned by the city for much of its history, but it has bought private schools and colleges over the years, thereby transitioning them from private to public.
07-06-2017 01:12 PM
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 01:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 12:54 PM)TopperCard Wrote:  University of Louisville was originally founded as the Jefferson Seminary in 1798, however it wasn't until the 1840's that the Seminary folded/merged with the Louisville Medical and Law colleges to form the University of Louisville.

Random tidbit, UofL was the first city-owned public University. It didn't join the state University system until the late 1960's.

UL's historic status drives me nuts. Parts of the website claim that it was public, and other parts claim that it was private. Frustratingly, as do a number of UL fans that I've encountered over the years. And a number of the various reasons/justifications as to its status that I've heard are also contradictory. For example, I've heard people claim that it was private because the city owned it (which would make it public).

My best guess is that the U of L itself has always been public, albeit owned by the city for much of its history, but it has bought private schools and colleges over the years, thereby transitioning them from private to public.

A public university is technically state-owned, which UofL was not and received no state funding until 1969. It was municipally-owned by the city and therefore wasn't governed by state regulation and only received funding from the city.

It wasn't private like a Duke or Boston College, or even a Miami. It was private in the sense that it wasn't mandated by the state University system. But one could also consider it locally "Public" in Jefferson County.
07-06-2017 01:41 PM
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ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
A Brief History
Grawemeyer Hall circa 1949

On April 3, 1798, eight men declared their intention to establish the Jefferson Seminary in Louisville and called upon their fellow citizens to join them in pledging funds for land, buildings, and teachers. Occurring a few weeks after the Kentucky legislature had chartered this academy and several others in the new state, this event marked the beginning of an advanced level of education for the young people of a frontier settlement barely two decades old. Near the end of the eighteenth century these early Louisvillians took the first steps on a journey that would link them with succeeding generations to the modern University of Louisville in the twenty-first century.

Jefferson Seminary struggled. It did not open until the fall of 1813, and in 1829 it closed. The Louisville Medical Institute (LMI), chartered in 1833, opened in 1837, and the Louisville Collegiate Institute (LCI) was chartered the same year. In 1840 LCI was renamed Louisville College and in 1844 it inherited the portion of the estate of Jefferson Seminary designated for the use of higher education in Louisville. LMI attracted large enrollments and prospered financially, but the college had difficulty remaining open. Proponents of grass roots democracy wanted to divert a portion of the medical school's resources to the college. They won a partial victory in 1846, when the Kentucky legislature created the University of Louisville proper, combining the medical school, the college, and a newly created law school. Although there was now a common board of trustees, each division retained financial autonomy, and the college did not survive.

During the nineteenth century most of the professors in UofL's medical and law schools were drawn from the ranks of local physicians and attorneys who considered teaching a part-time vocation. By the 1880s and 1890s, however, the university felt pressure from educational reformers who not only believed schools should employ full-time instructors but who also advocated well-enforced national standards for academic training. In 1907 this trend contributed to the revival of the liberal arts college, which had been all but forgotten during the second half of the century. A much more vibrant university added new programs--the Graduate School (1915), School of Dentistry (1918), Speed Scientific School (1925), University College (1928-1982), Louisville Municipal College for Negroes (1931-1951), School of Music (1932), and Kent School of Social Work (1936)--conformity to accreditation guidelines became increasingly important. Expanded academic programs and the adherence to higher educational standards led to the appointment of full-time administrators before America's entry into World War I.

World War II and the postwar era brought major changes to the University of Louisville. Shortly after the war, a movement began to close the all-black Louisville Municipal College and desegregate the university on all levels. This was accomplished in 1950 and 1951. In 1953 the School of Business was created. Perhaps the most dramatic development of the postwar period was the movement of tax-paying citizens from the city to the suburbs. Because the University of Louisville was municipally funded, this caused a damaging drain on the school's revenue. As early as 1965, a governor's task force suggested the possibility of the university's joining the state system of higher education, which it did in 1970.

Since the late 1960s the university has added several new academic units, including the School of Education (1968), the School of Justice Administration (1969), the School of Nursing (1979), and the College of Urban and Public Affairs (1983). In 1992 the latter school was eliminated and its functions distributed to other units. In the same year the School of Justice Administration moved to the College of Arts and Sciences, and the Kent School of Social work joined the Division of Allied Health to form the new College of Health and Social Services. In 1996 the functions of the College of Health and Social Services were realigned resulting in a separate Kent School of Social Work and a School of Allied Health Sciences. By 1999 Allied Health had given way to the School of Public Health and Information Sciences. In 2001 the School of Education became the College of Education and Human Development, and in 2003 the Speed Scientific School was renamed the Speed School of Engineering.

All of these schools have won their share of national acclaim. So too have UofL's athletic programs, with two NCAA Division I men's basketball championships in the 1980s under the leadership of National Coaches' Hall of Famer Denny Crum; a competitive football program with a new on-campus stadium; and top-flight women's basketball and volleyball teams, among others. In 2005 Coach Rick Pitino's basketball Cardinals reached the Final Four of the NCAA championships. The football team under Coach Bobby Petrino ended the season ranked 19th nationally after its Gator Bowl appearance. In early 2005 UofL's football and basketball were both in the top 10 for the first time in school history. "The Year of the Cardinal," in 2013, the Louisville Cardinals became the first university ever to win a BCS Bowl game, place both Men's and Women's Basketball teams in the NCAA Final Four and reach the College World Series.

Acting President Dr. Greg Postel today leads a university that has become known for academic excellence, transformational research, service to its community and the advancement of educational opportunity. With an enrollment of 22,367, its academic programs attract students from every state and from all over the world. It is well positioned to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the state legislature: to become "a premier, nationally-recognized metropolitan research university."

For more information, see Dwayne D. Cox and William J. Morison, The University of Louisville (Lexington: University Press of Kentucky, 2000).

Provided by University Archives & Records Center

http://louisville.edu/about/history
07-06-2017 01:50 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 12:49 PM)mj4life Wrote:  Are these numbers undergrad only or total enrollment? UNC's looks like total enrollment since the university has less than 19,000 undergrads

I don't think you use these numbers for much until they are adjusted.

The number for Pitt includes 4 satellite campuses - the main campus has 18.7K undergrads and 9.8K grads.

UNC has 18.5K undergrads, and about 11K grads (I get this from the Alumni Association). NC State has about 25K undergrads and 10K grads (I also get that from their Alumni Association). FSU has 33K undergrads, and a little over 9K grads.

You really have to gather the info directly from the school, the alumni association, or resort to using Wiki for a common baseline, knowing that it's likely 2-4% under the reality. Also, not everyone is accounted for at some places and in some place people are over accounted for so a part-time student of which there can be several thousand may or may not be completely accounted for, depending on how many hours they are taking.
07-06-2017 03:56 PM
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Hallcity Online
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 12:49 PM)mj4life Wrote:  Are these numbers undergrad only or total enrollment? UNC's looks like total enrollment since the university has less than 19,000 undergrads

I don't think you use these numbers for much until they are adjusted.

The number for Pitt includes 4 satellite campuses - the main campus has 18.7K undergrads and 9.8K grads.

UNC has 18.5K undergrads, and about 11K grads (I get this from the Alumni Association). NC State has about 25K undergrads and 10K grads (I also get that from their Alumni Association). FSU has 33K undergrads, and a little over 9K grads.

You really have to gather the info directly from the school, the alumni association, or resort to using Wiki for a common baseline, knowing that it's likely 2-4% under the reality. Also, not everyone is accounted for at some places and in some place people are over accounted for so a part-time student of which there can be several thousand may or may not be completely accounted for, depending on how many hours they are taking.

The number given for Duke is for undergraduates only. The number including graduate and professional students is 14,832.
07-06-2017 04:03 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
While WF and Duke can trace an origin back to the 1830's, neither was a "university" as such until the 1870's-80's. Trinity does not become Duke until it moves from Randolph County and is infused with cash by the Duke family. WF is not much more than the seminary and then the Civil War shut it down. WF does not become the current University it is until the Reynolds family buys and moves them to Winston Salem over the course of years between 1946 and 1956.

Quirkier still is that while NC State was founded in 1887 as NC A&M, the reorganization of the University system in 1932 transferred UNC-Ch's Engineering School to NC State, prevented NC State from overlapping UNC in Medicine and Law, and brought the Women's College (now UNC-G) under the same system. So while NC State was not founded until 1887, it was the final repository of UNC's Engineering School.

If you were not founded as a University is it appropriate to compare your point of origin to those that were founded as Universities? Does it matter?

The reason it would matter is that if you started building alumni 220 years ago, you have access to that intergenerational wealth that is vastly greater than "new money". UVa, UNC, Duke, BC, and Pitt all have "old money".
07-06-2017 04:15 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 04:03 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 12:49 PM)mj4life Wrote:  Are these numbers undergrad only or total enrollment? UNC's looks like total enrollment since the university has less than 19,000 undergrads

I don't think you use these numbers for much until they are adjusted.

The number for Pitt includes 4 satellite campuses - the main campus has 18.7K undergrads and 9.8K grads.

UNC has 18.5K undergrads, and about 11K grads (I get this from the Alumni Association). NC State has about 25K undergrads and 10K grads (I also get that from their Alumni Association). FSU has 33K undergrads, and a little over 9K grads.

You really have to gather the info directly from the school, the alumni association, or resort to using Wiki for a common baseline, knowing that it's likely 2-4% under the reality. Also, not everyone is accounted for at some places and in some place people are over accounted for so a part-time student of which there can be several thousand may or may not be completely accounted for, depending on how many hours they are taking.

The number given for Duke is for undergraduates only. The number including graduate and professional students is 14,832.

Your graduate students are your most important - that's where the research comes from and is your key to high research and ARWU rankings and the main entre into AAU.

Pitt, UNC, GT, Duke, VT, and NC State are the six research intensive universities as compared to the overall undergraduate base. That's not to say that Miami, ND, FSU, and UVa don't do a great deal of graduate research, but they just have a little different focus or their research end has not outgrown their undergrad end. One of the results is generally a worse undergrad experience at the five research intensive Universities because until you are a grad - you are not high on the pecking order (Duke being the best of the 5).

From an academic standpoint this is why Pitt, UNC, VT, GT, NC State, and Duke are most like B10 schools - it's not AAU, it's not size, it's the importance of graduate research and the dependence on graduate research dollars to run the money eating engine of the university. FSU seems to tinker with going this direction, but given Clemson's success based on evolving to becoming an elite public and southern University, Clemson's model might be the most sustainable (it's not a typical SEC model either - it's closer to Vandy and Tulane, in my opinion)
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2017 04:29 PM by lumberpack4.)
07-06-2017 04:21 PM
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Hallcity Online
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 04:15 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  While WF and Duke can trace an origin back to the 1830's, neither was a "university" as such until the 1870's-80's. Trinity does not become Duke until it moves from Randolph County and is infused with cash by the Duke family. WF is not much more than the seminary and then the Civil War shut it down. WF does not become the current University it is until the Reynolds family buys and moves them to Winston Salem over the course of years between 1946 and 1956.

Quirkier still is that while NC State was founded in 1887 as NC A&M, the reorganization of the University system in 1932 transferred UNC-Ch's Engineering School to NC State, prevented NC State from overlapping UNC in Medicine and Law, and brought the Women's College (now UNC-G) under the same system. So while NC State was not founded until 1887, it was the final repository of UNC's Engineering School.

If you were not founded as a University is it appropriate to compare your point of origin to those that were founded as Universities? Does it matter?

The reason it would matter is that if you started building alumni 220 years ago, you have access to that intergenerational wealth that is vastly greater than "new money". UVa, UNC, Duke, BC, and Pitt all have "old money".

Duke didn't become Duke until 1924. Before that it was Trinity College. (The Duke family was already supporting Trinity long before 1924. They paid for Trinity to move to Durham.) Trinity College still exists, by the way, as the college of arts and sciences at Duke. Your average Duke grad has the name of Trinity College as well as Duke on their diploma.
07-06-2017 06:24 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 12:49 PM)mj4life Wrote:  Are these numbers undergrad only or total enrollment? UNC's looks like total enrollment since the university has less than 19,000 undergrads

I don't think you use these numbers for much until they are adjusted.

The number for Pitt includes 4 satellite campuses - the main campus has 18.7K undergrads and 9.8K grads.

UNC has 18.5K undergrads, and about 11K grads (I get this from the Alumni Association). NC State has about 25K undergrads and 10K grads (I also get that from their Alumni Association). FSU has 33K undergrads, and a little over 9K grads.

You really have to gather the info directly from the school, the alumni association, or resort to using Wiki for a common baseline, knowing that it's likely 2-4% under the reality. Also, not everyone is accounted for at some places and in some place people are over accounted for so a part-time student of which there can be several thousand may or may not be completely accounted for, depending on how many hours they are taking.

Here is my source:
ACC Souce

check each school here. 07-coffee3
07-06-2017 09:13 PM
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 06:24 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 04:15 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  While WF and Duke can trace an origin back to the 1830's, neither was a "university" as such until the 1870's-80's. Trinity does not become Duke until it moves from Randolph County and is infused with cash by the Duke family. WF is not much more than the seminary and then the Civil War shut it down. WF does not become the current University it is until the Reynolds family buys and moves them to Winston Salem over the course of years between 1946 and 1956.

Quirkier still is that while NC State was founded in 1887 as NC A&M, the reorganization of the University system in 1932 transferred UNC-Ch's Engineering School to NC State, prevented NC State from overlapping UNC in Medicine and Law, and brought the Women's College (now UNC-G) under the same system. So while NC State was not founded until 1887, it was the final repository of UNC's Engineering School.

If you were not founded as a University is it appropriate to compare your point of origin to those that were founded as Universities? Does it matter?

The reason it would matter is that if you started building alumni 220 years ago, you have access to that intergenerational wealth that is vastly greater than "new money". UVa, UNC, Duke, BC, and Pitt all have "old money".

Duke didn't become Duke until 1924. Before that it was Trinity College. (The Duke family was already supporting Trinity long before 1924. They paid for Trinity to move to Durham.) Trinity College still exists, by the way, as the college of arts and sciences at Duke. Your average Duke grad has the name of Trinity College as well as Duke on their diploma.

Pitt was founded as Pittsburgh Academy by charter of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania in 1787, largely believed to be originally housed in a log cabin on what was then the frontier of America but currently downtown Pittsburgh. However, an unchartered predecessor school may have existed in that cabin prior to that date. In 1819 it was granted university status by an alteration to the same charter and the name was changed to the Western University of Pennsylvania (i.e., it was intended to be the western version of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, although it was shortchanged by its promised state grant funding). The Great Fire of 1845 destroyed the university and much of Pittsburgh (and most of the university's records), and a subsequent fire destroyed the university again 4 years later, after which it shut its doors for 6 years while the school's trustees regrouped and rebuilt. Its growth forced it to change locations a couple times until it settled in its present location in 1908 at which point it changed it's name to the University of Pittsburgh. It remained full private until it became state-related in 1966.
07-06-2017 10:41 PM
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 09:13 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 12:49 PM)mj4life Wrote:  Are these numbers undergrad only or total enrollment? UNC's looks like total enrollment since the university has less than 19,000 undergrads

I don't think you use these numbers for much until they are adjusted.

The number for Pitt includes 4 satellite campuses - the main campus has 18.7K undergrads and 9.8K grads.

UNC has 18.5K undergrads, and about 11K grads (I get this from the Alumni Association). NC State has about 25K undergrads and 10K grads (I also get that from their Alumni Association). FSU has 33K undergrads, and a little over 9K grads.

You really have to gather the info directly from the school, the alumni association, or resort to using Wiki for a common baseline, knowing that it's likely 2-4% under the reality. Also, not everyone is accounted for at some places and in some place people are over accounted for so a part-time student of which there can be several thousand may or may not be completely accounted for, depending on how many hours they are taking.

Here is my source:
ACC Souce

check each school here. 07-coffee3

That's a broken link
07-07-2017 11:23 AM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-07-2017 11:23 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:13 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 12:49 PM)mj4life Wrote:  Are these numbers undergrad only or total enrollment? UNC's looks like total enrollment since the university has less than 19,000 undergrads

I don't think you use these numbers for much until they are adjusted.

The number for Pitt includes 4 satellite campuses - the main campus has 18.7K undergrads and 9.8K grads.

UNC has 18.5K undergrads, and about 11K grads (I get this from the Alumni Association). NC State has about 25K undergrads and 10K grads (I also get that from their Alumni Association). FSU has 33K undergrads, and a little over 9K grads.

You really have to gather the info directly from the school, the alumni association, or resort to using Wiki for a common baseline, knowing that it's likely 2-4% under the reality. Also, not everyone is accounted for at some places and in some place people are over accounted for so a part-time student of which there can be several thousand may or may not be completely accounted for, depending on how many hours they are taking.

Here is my source:
ACC Souce

check each school here. 07-coffee3

That's a broken link

FIFY, site gives data on each ACC member. Just click on thier icon.

ACC Source
07-07-2017 12:18 PM
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 04:21 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Your graduate students are your most important [...]

Please, no. Everything universities do as part of their mission is important. All depends on what you want to measure and why.

AAU membership and ranking systems like US News get a lot of public attention. Yes, these pay a lot of attention to graduate research. They also favour STEM fields over law, the humanities, business, and other equally legitimate fields of study.

Dozens of other benchmarks exist, fortunately--all just as prestigious in academia.

Undergraduate education is central to the mission of any university. ACC schools excel here as well. Wake Forest and Notre Dame stand out nationally as examples of schools that give this a defining role.

For our purposes here, it's also worth noting: Grad schools don't supply many scholarship athletes.

See? All depends on what the goal is and what you want to measure.

03-wink
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2017 02:44 PM by Gitanole.)
07-07-2017 02:40 PM
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RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-07-2017 12:18 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 11:23 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 09:13 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 03:56 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 12:49 PM)mj4life Wrote:  Are these numbers undergrad only or total enrollment? UNC's looks like total enrollment since the university has less than 19,000 undergrads

I don't think you use these numbers for much until they are adjusted.

The number for Pitt includes 4 satellite campuses - the main campus has 18.7K undergrads and 9.8K grads.

UNC has 18.5K undergrads, and about 11K grads (I get this from the Alumni Association). NC State has about 25K undergrads and 10K grads (I also get that from their Alumni Association). FSU has 33K undergrads, and a little over 9K grads.

You really have to gather the info directly from the school, the alumni association, or resort to using Wiki for a common baseline, knowing that it's likely 2-4% under the reality. Also, not everyone is accounted for at some places and in some place people are over accounted for so a part-time student of which there can be several thousand may or may not be completely accounted for, depending on how many hours they are taking.

Here is my source:
ACC Souce

check each school here. 07-coffee3

That's a broken link

FIFY, site gives data on each ACC member. Just click on thier icon.

ACC Source

That explains your faulty data - I should have guessed.

The league office is not to be trusted for data that applies to individual schools. No need to go into detail into the reasons why - it is what it is.
07-07-2017 03:03 PM
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Post: #19
RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-07-2017 02:40 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(07-06-2017 04:21 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Your graduate students are your most important [...]

Please, no. Everything universities do as part of their mission is important. All depends on what you want to measure and why.

AAU membership and ranking systems like US News get a lot of public attention. Yes, these pay a lot of attention to graduate research. They also favour STEM fields over law, the humanities, business, and other equally legitimate fields of study.

Dozens of other benchmarks exist, fortunately--all just as prestigious in academia.

Undergraduate education is central to the mission of any university. ACC schools excel here as well. Wake Forest and Notre Dame stand out nationally as examples of schools that give this a defining role.

For our purposes here, it's also worth noting: Grad schools don't supply many scholarship athletes.

See? All depends on what the goal is and what you want to measure.

03-wink

I thought I said most of what you just posted. Here is the entire post again not just a single line:

"Your graduate students are your most important - that's where the research comes from and is your key to high research and ARWU rankings and the main entre into AAU.

Pitt, UNC, GT, Duke, VT, and NC State are the six research intensive universities as compared to the overall undergraduate base. That's not to say that Miami, ND, FSU, and UVa don't do a great deal of graduate research, but they just have a little different focus or their research end has not outgrown their undergrad end. One of the results is generally a worse undergrad experience at the five research intensive Universities because until you are a grad - you are not high on the pecking order (Duke being the best of the 5).

From an academic standpoint this is why Pitt, UNC, VT, GT, NC State, and Duke are most like B10 schools - it's not AAU, it's not size, it's the importance of graduate research and the dependence on graduate research dollars to run the money eating engine of the university. FSU seems to tinker with going this direction, but given Clemson's success based on evolving to becoming an elite public and southern University, Clemson's model might be the most sustainable (it's not a typical SEC model either - it's closer to Vandy and Tulane, in my opinion)"

I don't why you mentioned scholarships as athletics aren't part of the original topic. Sports are a small sliver of the Academic/University corporate entity.
07-07-2017 03:19 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #20
RE: ACC Member Schools by Age and Enrollment.
(07-06-2017 11:42 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Pittsburgh 1787 35,330
North Carolina 1789 26,878
Louisville 1798 22,000

Virginia 1819 20,399
Wake Forest 1834 7,152
Duke 1838 6,247
Notre Dame 1842 11,985
Florida State 1857 41,000
Boston College 1863 14,500
Syracuse 1870 21,029
Virginia Tech 1872 33,170
Georgia Tech 1885 19,333
North Carolina State 1887 29,957
Clemson 1889 19,453
Miami 1925 15,520

1789 is significant in that the US Constitution was ratified in 1789. The North Carolina Constitution was also ratified in 1789 and the creation of the University was written into and created by that Constitution of 1789.
07-07-2017 04:08 PM
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