The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(06-27-2017 09:56 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:54 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I'll give Peej credit.

Go ahead, whenever you're ready.

He looked great in hair jell

The 47 pictures of him they took down from the Bill Brown
took my breath away

His use of the pronouns "I" and "Me" is unmatched in Bronco coaching history.

See, he did lots of good things

(06-27-2017 09:54 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I'm not going to pretend those #3 ranked classes are still #1 after 10 guys quit, go to jail, or never show up.

I'm not going to buy into the "greatest team ever" nonsense when you have the best schedule in 40 years.

So an undefeated regular season, MAC 'ship, Cotton Bowl berth, etc. wasn't the players, wasn't the coaches..... it was all easy scheduling?

Keep telling yourself that, even with 2 Big Ten non-conference road wins. Oh the lengths you'll go...

The worst part is you were such a good poster before all of this. I actually remember the early days under Fleck when you'd argue against DB that Fleck was a great recruiter (because I'm sure you still know this deep down).

I have checked in now and then and again PJ appears to be recruiting very well at Minnesota, but he is also SELLING EVERYTHING very well over there, like he did here. That was his real skill. By now, we would have videos of the team racing mountain bikes, running at south haven, a scholarship dropping out of the sky. I do not expect Lester to do that, because it is not in his DNA, nor was it in any of the prior WMU coaches, who all had strengths and weaknesses, like most human beings. Fleck pushed the envelope when it came to risk taking with a program. It paid off for one glorious year and that should be embraced as part of history now. Can't take the MAC championship off the wall at Waldo stadium. Recruiting? I don't know, he sold it to me that he was pretty damn good at it and the results speak for themselves. But as a true salesman (always a little slime on the very best in any field, ALWAYS), then PJ was head and shoulders above any previous coach.

(06-28-2017 06:55 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  I have checked in now and then and again PJ appears to be recruiting very well at Minnesota, but he is also SELLING EVERYTHING very well over there, like he did here. That was his real skill. By now, we would have videos of the team racing mountain bikes, running at south haven, a scholarship dropping out of the sky. I do not expect Lester to do that, because it is not in his DNA, nor was it in any of the prior WMU coaches, who all had strengths and weaknesses, like most human beings. Fleck pushed the envelope when it came to risk taking with a program. It paid off for one glorious year and that should be embraced as part of history now. Can't take the MAC championship off the wall at Waldo stadium. Recruiting? I don't know, he sold it to me that he was pretty damn good at it and the results speak for themselves. But as a true salesman (always a little slime on the very best in any field, ALWAYS), then PJ was head and shoulders above any previous coach.

Good post.

They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

That said, I could not be more pleased with Coach Lester. He may or may not be recruiting as well as Fleck - who did win the first MAC Championship at WMU since 1988 and beat CMU three straight - but that comparison is nothing more than conjecture at this point. Let's see what happens on the field and give Lester our continued support.

(06-28-2017 02:38 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:54 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I'm not going to pretend those #3 ranked classes are still #1 after 10 guys quit, go to jail, or never show up.

I'm not going to buy into the "greatest team ever" nonsense when you have the best schedule in 40 years.

So an undefeated regular season, MAC 'ship, Cotton Bowl berth, etc. wasn't the players, wasn't the coaches..... it was all easy scheduling?

Keep telling yourself that, even with 2 Big Ten non-conference road wins. Oh the lengths you'll go...

The worst part is you were such a good poster before all of this. I actually remember the early days under Fleck when you'd argue against DB that Fleck was a great recruiter (because I'm sure you still know this deep down).

"Someone has spoken ill of The Peej. Very upsetting as I lay awake here at 3:40 AM wondering how I shall respond."
#Persrod

We did land on a good schedule this year, not sure anyone would argue against that.

But the highlight accomplishment was reeling off 13 in a row. With no slip, no mulligan, no whoops. No shocking 2000 CMU gash. That also considers our oddball MAC schedule sticking its conference members with weird, disrupting Tuesday/Wednesday games in November. One on POTUS election night, no less.

That's a huge feat, no matter the conference or schedule. It's extremely difficult to get that W each and every week you step onto the field. Even if some of those opponents are considered 'weak'.

Was it the greatest team in the history of our program? Better than the 1988 team? That's obviously subjective. Personally, I only started closely following in the mid-90s. Since then, there could've been a couple Darnell and Cubit teams that would've pushed the 2016 team, but I'd still give the 2016 edition the edge.

(06-27-2017 10:10 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:56 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:54 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I'll give Peej credit.

Go ahead, whenever you're ready.

He looked great in hair jell

The 47 pictures of him they took down from the Bill Brown
took my breath away

His use of the pronouns "I" and "Me" is unmatched in Bronco coaching history.

See, he did lots of good things

Corey Davis?

(06-28-2017 07:46 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 06:55 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  I have checked in now and then and again PJ appears to be recruiting very well at Minnesota, but he is also SELLING EVERYTHING very well over there, like he did here. That was his real skill. By now, we would have videos of the team racing mountain bikes, running at south haven, a scholarship dropping out of the sky. I do not expect Lester to do that, because it is not in his DNA, nor was it in any of the prior WMU coaches, who all had strengths and weaknesses, like most human beings. Fleck pushed the envelope when it came to risk taking with a program. It paid off for one glorious year and that should be embraced as part of history now. Can't take the MAC championship off the wall at Waldo stadium. Recruiting? I don't know, he sold it to me that he was pretty damn good at it and the results speak for themselves. But as a true salesman (always a little slime on the very best in any field, ALWAYS), then PJ was head and shoulders above any previous coach.

Good post.

They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

That said, I could not be more pleased with Coach Lester. He may or may not be recruiting as well as Fleck - who did win the first MAC Championship at WMU since 1988 and beat CMU three straight - but that comparison is nothing more than conjecture at this point. Let's see what happens on the field and give Lester our continued support.

I honestly think Fleck was a bit undervalued as a game coach. He was wise enough to defer to his coordinators mostly, but did tend to have the brass to follow through with a philosophy of aggressiveness and unpredictability on the field. He went for it on fourth down frequently, and kept the opposition from being able to predict what we were doing enough to give us and edge.

Fleck was the opposite of "old school", which is good because old school collective football wisdom is usually stupid (same in baseball: the sacrifice bunt is statistically one of the stupidest strategies possible).

I get folks hating Fleck for poaching recruits after he left, or because you dont like his personality, but the guy obviously has what it takes to be a successful college football coach. He can recruit with the best, he brings excitement to the program, gets the players to buy into what he is preaching, and wins on game day. His kids did well in the classroom, and to a large degree stayed out of trouble.

I was a supporter of what he was doing from the beginning, because to me he was saying and doing the things that I thought would lead to success. The high energy, workaholic, "new-school" guys, who are good with the media, the public, and young people in general, tend to be able to recruit. And the guys who throw the old school coaches handbook in the garbage on game day, and play aggressive on both sides of the ball, do well too. A balanced offense is what you want, but balance should come from throwing on downs when the defense is playing for the run, and running on downs when the defense is playing for the pass; thus pitching the "old-school" play calling manual. I hope Lester manifests these philosophies.

Fleck is not a guy I will root for again. But I am not going to pretend he wast good when he was here. He had it going on, and most of us enjoyed it tremendously. Now is Lester's time. He has everything he could ask for in terms of tools for success; including an experienced group of very talented players. The defense is almost all back; and they were fantastic, with another years worth of experience and strength building. A lot of players are back on offense, and he is an offensive guy; with an offensive coordinator who I think we are very fortunate to have. I wish we had more experience at QB and receiver, but I don't think we are short on talent at either of those positions. If Lester is going to be successful, this year should be a banner season for him. That could lead to even more recruiting success.

I have always really liked Lester. He is already a WMU legend in my book; but if he can keep the engine going and have a few great seasons, I will love the guy. He wasn't my choice for the job, but I cant think of a guy I would rather have become a WMU coaching legend.

(06-28-2017 12:19 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 10:10 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:56 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:54 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I'll give Peej credit.

Go ahead, whenever you're ready.

He looked great in hair jell

The 47 pictures of him they took down from the Bill Brown
took my breath away

His use of the pronouns "I" and "Me" is unmatched in Bronco coaching history.

See, he did lots of good things

Corey Davis?

He's not good

(06-28-2017 08:10 AM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 02:38 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:54 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  I'm not going to pretend those #3 ranked classes are still #1 after 10 guys quit, go to jail, or never show up.

I'm not going to buy into the "greatest team ever" nonsense when you have the best schedule in 40 years.

So an undefeated regular season, MAC 'ship, Cotton Bowl berth, etc. wasn't the players, wasn't the coaches..... it was all easy scheduling?

Keep telling yourself that, even with 2 Big Ten non-conference road wins. Oh the lengths you'll go...

The worst part is you were such a good poster before all of this. I actually remember the early days under Fleck when you'd argue against DB that Fleck was a great recruiter (because I'm sure you still know this deep down).

"Someone has spoken ill of The Peej. Very upsetting as I lay awake here at 3:40 AM wondering how I shall respond."
#Persrod

The funny thing is there hasn't been a lot of talk around here about PJ lately. Lester is doing a fine job on the recruiting trail and we're all starting to look forward as a fan base. You're a self-fulfilling prophecy. You stir everyone up with PJ talk so you can complain about PJ talk.

(06-28-2017 02:57 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 07:46 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 06:55 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  I have checked in now and then and again PJ appears to be recruiting very well at Minnesota, but he is also SELLING EVERYTHING very well over there, like he did here. That was his real skill. By now, we would have videos of the team racing mountain bikes, running at south haven, a scholarship dropping out of the sky. I do not expect Lester to do that, because it is not in his DNA, nor was it in any of the prior WMU coaches, who all had strengths and weaknesses, like most human beings. Fleck pushed the envelope when it came to risk taking with a program. It paid off for one glorious year and that should be embraced as part of history now. Can't take the MAC championship off the wall at Waldo stadium. Recruiting? I don't know, he sold it to me that he was pretty damn good at it and the results speak for themselves. But as a true salesman (always a little slime on the very best in any field, ALWAYS), then PJ was head and shoulders above any previous coach.

Good post.

They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

That said, I could not be more pleased with Coach Lester. He may or may not be recruiting as well as Fleck - who did win the first MAC Championship at WMU since 1988 and beat CMU three straight - but that comparison is nothing more than conjecture at this point. Let's see what happens on the field and give Lester our continued support.

I honestly think Fleck was a bit undervalued as a game coach. He was wise enough to defer to his coordinators mostly, but did tend to have the brass to follow through with a philosophy of aggressiveness and unpredictability on the field. He went for it on fourth down frequently, and kept the opposition from being able to predict what we were doing enough to give us and edge.

Fleck was the opposite of "old school", which is good because old school collective football wisdom is usually stupid (same in baseball: the sacrifice bunt is statistically one of the stupidest strategies possible).

I get folks hating Fleck for poaching recruits after he left, or because you dont like his personality, but the guy obviously has what it takes to be a successful college football coach. He can recruit with the best, he brings excitement to the program, gets the players to buy into what he is preaching, and wins on game day. His kids did well in the classroom, and to a large degree stayed out of trouble.

I was a supporter of what he was doing from the beginning, because to me he was saying and doing the things that I thought would lead to success. The high energy, workaholic, "new-school" guys, who are good with the media, the public, and young people in general, tend to be able to recruit. And the guys who throw the old school coaches handbook in the garbage on game day, and play aggressive on both sides of the ball, do well too. A balanced offense is what you want, but balance should come from throwing on downs when the defense is playing for the run, and running on downs when the defense is playing for the pass; thus pitching the "old-school" play calling manual. I hope Lester manifests these philosophies.

Fleck is not a guy I will root for again. But I am not going to pretend he wast good when he was here. He had it going on, and most of us enjoyed it tremendously. Now is Lester's time. He has everything he could ask for in terms of tools for success; including an experienced group of very talented players. The defense is almost all back; and they were fantastic, with another years worth of experience and strength building. A lot of players are back on offense, and he is an offensive guy; with an offensive coordinator who I think we are very fortunate to have. I wish we had more experience at QB and receiver, but I don't think we are short on talent at either of those positions. If Lester is going to be successful, this year should be a banner season for him. That could lead to even more recruiting success.

I have always really liked Lester. He is already a WMU legend in my book; but if he can keep the engine going and have a few great seasons, I will love the guy. He wasn't my choice for the job, but I cant think of a guy I would rather have become a WMU coaching legend.

I really like this post.

(06-28-2017 05:45 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 02:57 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 07:46 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 06:55 AM)uclabruin Wrote:  I have checked in now and then and again PJ appears to be recruiting very well at Minnesota, but he is also SELLING EVERYTHING very well over there, like he did here. That was his real skill. By now, we would have videos of the team racing mountain bikes, running at south haven, a scholarship dropping out of the sky. I do not expect Lester to do that, because it is not in his DNA, nor was it in any of the prior WMU coaches, who all had strengths and weaknesses, like most human beings. Fleck pushed the envelope when it came to risk taking with a program. It paid off for one glorious year and that should be embraced as part of history now. Can't take the MAC championship off the wall at Waldo stadium. Recruiting? I don't know, he sold it to me that he was pretty damn good at it and the results speak for themselves. But as a true salesman (always a little slime on the very best in any field, ALWAYS), then PJ was head and shoulders above any previous coach.

Good post.

They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

That said, I could not be more pleased with Coach Lester. He may or may not be recruiting as well as Fleck - who did win the first MAC Championship at WMU since 1988 and beat CMU three straight - but that comparison is nothing more than conjecture at this point. Let's see what happens on the field and give Lester our continued support.

I honestly think Fleck was a bit undervalued as a game coach. He was wise enough to defer to his coordinators mostly, but did tend to have the brass to follow through with a philosophy of aggressiveness and unpredictability on the field. He went for it on fourth down frequently, and kept the opposition from being able to predict what we were doing enough to give us and edge.

Fleck was the opposite of "old school", which is good because old school collective football wisdom is usually stupid (same in baseball: the sacrifice bunt is statistically one of the stupidest strategies possible).

I get folks hating Fleck for poaching recruits after he left, or because you dont like his personality, but the guy obviously has what it takes to be a successful college football coach. He can recruit with the best, he brings excitement to the program, gets the players to buy into what he is preaching, and wins on game day. His kids did well in the classroom, and to a large degree stayed out of trouble.

I was a supporter of what he was doing from the beginning, because to me he was saying and doing the things that I thought would lead to success. The high energy, workaholic, "new-school" guys, who are good with the media, the public, and young people in general, tend to be able to recruit. And the guys who throw the old school coaches handbook in the garbage on game day, and play aggressive on both sides of the ball, do well too. A balanced offense is what you want, but balance should come from throwing on downs when the defense is playing for the run, and running on downs when the defense is playing for the pass; thus pitching the "old-school" play calling manual. I hope Lester manifests these philosophies.

Fleck is not a guy I will root for again. But I am not going to pretend he wast good when he was here. He had it going on, and most of us enjoyed it tremendously. Now is Lester's time. He has everything he could ask for in terms of tools for success; including an experienced group of very talented players. The defense is almost all back; and they were fantastic, with another years worth of experience and strength building. A lot of players are back on offense, and he is an offensive guy; with an offensive coordinator who I think we are very fortunate to have. I wish we had more experience at QB and receiver, but I don't think we are short on talent at either of those positions. If Lester is going to be successful, this year should be a banner season for him. That could lead to even more recruiting success.

I have always really liked Lester. He is already a WMU legend in my book; but if he can keep the engine going and have a few great seasons, I will love the guy. He wasn't my choice for the job, but I cant think of a guy I would rather have become a WMU coaching legend.

I really like this post.

Samesies

(06-28-2017 07:46 AM)GullLake Wrote:  They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

Ugh, give it up already. 3rd party observers with limited knowledge? You don't understand modern day recruiting. At all.

Does the word "relationship" or "correlation" mean anything to you?

They don't "hang banners" for individual conference wins either, but it takes winning a certain number of games to achieve a conference championship.

Dip, glad to see you posting back here. Makes this board readable again. Please stick around.

(06-28-2017 06:22 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 07:46 AM)GullLake Wrote:  They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

Ugh, give it up already. 3rd party observers with limited knowledge? You don't understand modern day recruiting. At all.

Does the word "relationship" or "correlation" mean anything to you?

They don't "hang banners" for individual conference wins either, but it takes winning a certain number of games to achieve a conference championship.

Actually, I have been directly involved with collegiate athletic recruiting, although not for football. While ratings/rankings are fun and interesting, I understand never to get too excited, or too disappointed, by them because they are seldom a reflection of the true talent - or lack thereof - in a recruiting class.

Per a previous poster, using your logic WMU has zero chance this fall against MSU and had no business hanging with Wisky in the Cotton Bowl, let alone beating NU.

Trust the coaches and judge the product on the field. Enjoy the gossipy ratings/rankings, but don't take them as gospel.

(06-29-2017 10:33 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 06:22 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 07:46 AM)GullLake Wrote:  They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

Ugh, give it up already. 3rd party observers with limited knowledge? You don't understand modern day recruiting. At all.

Does the word "relationship" or "correlation" mean anything to you?

They don't "hang banners" for individual conference wins either, but it takes winning a certain number of games to achieve a conference championship.

Actually, I have been directly involved with collegiate athletic recruiting, although not for football. While ratings/rankings are fun and interesting, I understand never to get too excited, or too disappointed, by them because they are seldom a reflection of the true talent - or lack thereof - in a recruiting class.

Per a previous poster, using your logic WMU has zero chance this fall against MSU and had no business hanging with Wisky in the Cotton Bowl, let alone beating NU.

Trust the coaches and judge the product on the field. Enjoy the gossipy ratings/rankings, but don't take them as gospel.

I always go back to some years ago when we nabbed a highly ranked DB transfer from Miami (FL) (Wiggins I think was his name)... he came to WMU as a Sophomore and was rated high 4 star out of high school... Albeit he broke into a starting role later in his career at WMU he was never this immovable force out there... He wasn't even the best DB on the field... So there is truth to what a coach can make of the talent he has... and the team he can make with the players he brings into the program... I trust that we can make some serious noise in the MAC and beyond with the 3 star athletes Lester is bringing in...

(06-29-2017 10:54 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(06-29-2017 10:33 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 06:22 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 07:46 AM)GullLake Wrote:  They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

Ugh, give it up already. 3rd party observers with limited knowledge? You don't understand modern day recruiting. At all.

Does the word "relationship" or "correlation" mean anything to you?

They don't "hang banners" for individual conference wins either, but it takes winning a certain number of games to achieve a conference championship.

Actually, I have been directly involved with collegiate athletic recruiting, although not for football. While ratings/rankings are fun and interesting, I understand never to get too excited, or too disappointed, by them because they are seldom a reflection of the true talent - or lack thereof - in a recruiting class.

Per a previous poster, using your logic WMU has zero chance this fall against MSU and had no business hanging with Wisky in the Cotton Bowl, let alone beating NU.

Trust the coaches and judge the product on the field. Enjoy the gossipy ratings/rankings, but don't take them as gospel.

I always go back to some years ago when we nabbed a highly ranked DB transfer from Miami (FL) (Wiggins I think was his name)... he came to WMU as a Sophomore and was rated high 4 star out of high school... Albeit he broke into a starting role later in his career at WMU he was never this immovable force out there... He wasn't even the best DB on the field... So there is truth to what a coach can make of the talent he has... and the team he can make with the players he brings into the program... I trust that we can make some serious noise in the MAC and beyond with the 3 star athletes Lester is bringing in...

Good post!

A poster on another board listed the number of Fleck recruits who quit, and never played a down, at WMU. It is a large, and very disturbing list with some highly regarded and sought-after players.

Without those players, the rating/ranking of Fleck's classes surely would have dropped precipitously...but WMU won anyway.

Some kids peak in high school. Some kids develop and blossom in college. Some kids can't function on a college campus. Some kids are talented, but headcases. Some kids have issues at home that must be addressed.

There's more to it than "stars."

(06-29-2017 11:13 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(06-29-2017 10:54 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(06-29-2017 10:33 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 06:22 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 07:46 AM)GullLake Wrote:  They don't put "#1 MAC Recruiting Class" in big letters, permanently in the stadium and don't hang any banners in University Arena.

However, "MAC Champion 2016" is now etched forever at Waldo.

It is what is accomplished - objectively on the field - with recruits that counts, not simply bringing in a class that is subjectively rated/ranked by 3rd party observers with limited knowledge of the game and program.

Ugh, give it up already. 3rd party observers with limited knowledge? You don't understand modern day recruiting. At all.

Does the word "relationship" or "correlation" mean anything to you?

They don't "hang banners" for individual conference wins either, but it takes winning a certain number of games to achieve a conference championship.

Actually, I have been directly involved with collegiate athletic recruiting, although not for football. While ratings/rankings are fun and interesting, I understand never to get too excited, or too disappointed, by them because they are seldom a reflection of the true talent - or lack thereof - in a recruiting class.

Per a previous poster, using your logic WMU has zero chance this fall against MSU and had no business hanging with Wisky in the Cotton Bowl, let alone beating NU.

Trust the coaches and judge the product on the field. Enjoy the gossipy ratings/rankings, but don't take them as gospel.

I always go back to some years ago when we nabbed a highly ranked DB transfer from Miami (FL) (Wiggins I think was his name)... he came to WMU as a Sophomore and was rated high 4 star out of high school... Albeit he broke into a starting role later in his career at WMU he was never this immovable force out there... He wasn't even the best DB on the field... So there is truth to what a coach can make of the talent he has... and the team he can make with the players he brings into the program... I trust that we can make some serious noise in the MAC and beyond with the 3 star athletes Lester is bringing in...

Good post!

A poster on another board listed the number of Fleck recruits who quit, and never played a down, at WMU. It is a large, and very disturbing list with some highly regarded and sought-after players.

Without those players, the rating/ranking of Fleck's classes surely would have dropped precipitously...but WMU won anyway.

Some kids peak in high school. Some kids develop and blossom in college. Some kids can't function on a college campus. Some kids are talented, but headcases. Some kids have issues at home that must be addressed.

There's more to it than "stars."

That's fine if some are just going to point out the recruits that didn't work out for Fleck. But, which other WMU coach had a recruit get drafted in the Top 5 of the NFL draft?

Jarvion Franklin, Jamauri Bogan, Darius Phillips, Chooks...and down the rest of the roster and you'll see great PJ recruits. Misses are a part of recruiting and maybe PJ had more misses than the average HC. But, he also had bigger hits than the average HC and the results proved it on the field.

I know I'm adding to the narrative that a certain poster wanted to create....but, WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT PJ?!?!?!?!?!?

Tim Lester is our HC and I believe he's going to do a great job. It's time to quote Bob Seger: Turn the Page

(06-29-2017 12:21 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  Jarvion Franklin, Jamauri Bogan, Darius Phillips, Chooks...and down the rest of the roster and you'll see great PJ recruits. Misses are a part of recruiting and maybe PJ had more misses than the average HC. But, he also had bigger hits than the average HC and the results proved it on the field.