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What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
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pilot172000 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
I can honestly say that consistently winning big and making the big game is what builds the brand. That's New Years Six Bowls, Final Fours,Sweet Sixteens, College World Series consistently. Wichita State, Gonzaga and Butler have reached that peak. Boise, TCU and Louisville reached that peak. Two of them cashed in on it. They made it to the point where every day folks who watch the big events see them matched up next to the Power 5 teams. None of us are there. Nobody is going to give a flippity flop if Tech wins 9 games every year for the next decade. CUSA titles are worth as much as MAC, AAC, and MWC titles and thats ain't much.
06-23-2017 01:40 PM
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ThreeifbyLightning Offline
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Post: #62
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-23-2017 12:20 PM)chidave Wrote:  Football is an event. If someone goes to a football they typically tailgate, spending several hours before the game on your campus. People attend basketball to see the game. I know I much more dialed into my alumni/university community since the football program started.

But in what way does that "local event" aid you in building a national brand?
06-23-2017 01:45 PM
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CyrusJS Offline
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Post: #63
What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
I didn't take the time to read past the 1st page, but here is my .02;

VCU, Butler, Gonzaga, etc. don't have football teams. They funnel that money into basketball, which means they can pay to retain top level coaches that might otherwise jump ship. That is the biggest factor in basketball exposure: keeping a coach long enough to make deep tourney runs + keep him year after year of deep tourney runs. How many of us would have an elite 8 (or many) under our belts if we could choose a coach from our history and have him stay for good?

It's harder to get exposure in basketball than football. Just being FBS is more exposure than most non-FBS schools will get. As a G5, there is a limit to how much brand we can get from it though. I.E., Boise has essentially maxed out on their brand.

Basketball has a much higher ceiling for a G5. Sweet 16's will do more for a school than football can.

P5 is a whole different beast, though, where there is no limit to how high you can go in football. Football beats basketball 100% of the time for P5, where it's a little more complicated for a G5.


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06-23-2017 01:47 PM
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HerdZoned Offline
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Post: #64
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
Here it is though, no matter how good you are as a G5 member none of us and I mean none of us are ever going to get one of the four spots in the college IA beauty contest or as they like to call it the playoffs. I don't care if you would go 13-0 for the next 10 years, its just not happening.

But a good HC with good assts in basketball can recruit a team that can compete with anyone in the country, even UNC, Kansas, Duke, UCLA, the four bluebloods. That's been proven over time by Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, UConn, Dayton and even Richmond and Rhode Island to a certain degree.

I have always followed Marshall football and basketball. But if I was making the decisions I would def. take the basketball route if I had to choose. 1) Its easier to do in basketball and 2) You get a lot more times to prove yourself over the course of a season. You only get a min of 12 times a year in football and 13 if you make a bowl. In basketball you get 30-33 times and up to 6 games if you would make the NCAA Finals.
06-23-2017 02:03 PM
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stodgdog Offline
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Post: #65
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-23-2017 07:20 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 06:59 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  Everything in college sports is measured in dollars and cents. Without the $$, there are no facilities or anything else related to a sports program. Looking at WKU in 2010, the average revenue generated by basketball was $1,965,315, while the average revenue generated by football was $5,768,244, or three times that of basketball. So again, football is the bread winner and keeps other sports going, giving further exposure to the university in those sports.

Again though this is an example of a sliding scale that's not comparing apples to apples. You are making this comparison at time when wkcc basketball has sucked and it's football program has experienced unprecedented success.

If the hoops team makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs in the same time frame then I'm not sure these numbers look anything like this. Have to keep the comparisons on par for a valid discussion.

Revenue generated is also not the same as net revenue.
06-23-2017 02:16 PM
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Monarchist13 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-23-2017 02:16 PM)stodgdog Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 07:20 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 06:59 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  Everything in college sports is measured in dollars and cents. Without the $$, there are no facilities or anything else related to a sports program. Looking at WKU in 2010, the average revenue generated by basketball was $1,965,315, while the average revenue generated by football was $5,768,244, or three times that of basketball. So again, football is the bread winner and keeps other sports going, giving further exposure to the university in those sports.

Again though this is an example of a sliding scale that's not comparing apples to apples. You are making this comparison at time when wkcc basketball has sucked and it's football program has experienced unprecedented success.

If the hoops team makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs in the same time frame then I'm not sure these numbers look anything like this. Have to keep the comparisons on par for a valid discussion.

Revenue generated is also not the same as net revenue.

Yep. This line of thinking by Volkmar is totally disregarding the expenses of each sport.
06-23-2017 02:32 PM
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Volkmar Offline
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Post: #67
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-23-2017 02:32 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 02:16 PM)stodgdog Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 07:20 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 06:59 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  Everything in college sports is measured in dollars and cents. Without the $$, there are no facilities or anything else related to a sports program. Looking at WKU in 2010, the average revenue generated by basketball was $1,965,315, while the average revenue generated by football was $5,768,244, or three times that of basketball. So again, football is the bread winner and keeps other sports going, giving further exposure to the university in those sports.

Again though this is an example of a sliding scale that's not comparing apples to apples. You are making this comparison at time when wkcc basketball has sucked and it's football program has experienced unprecedented success.

If the hoops team makes a couple of Sweet 16 runs in the same time frame then I'm not sure these numbers look anything like this. Have to keep the comparisons on par for a valid discussion.

Revenue generated is also not the same as net revenue.

Yep. This line of thinking by Volkmar is totally disregarding the expenses of each sport.

Yep, you're right.
06-23-2017 06:20 PM
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Hilltopper2K Offline
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Post: #68
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
If you have unlimited money then football will get you bigger exposure. No one in CUSA has unlimited money.

People at work don't believe me when I tell them we finished in the top 25 a couple of years ago in football. But people at work remember Ty Rogers hitting the shot that sent us to the Sweet 16 in 2008 (even though they didn't know any WKU fans back then).

The Boise model is just not a realistic hope for most of us. They are in a city of 200k+ that does not have any pro teams or power 5 teams in their state. Those circumstances do not apply to any of us.

An NCAA run is a CUSA team's best shot at building a national brand.
06-23-2017 08:20 PM
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MUther Offline
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Post: #69
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
In the current iteration of football with a ~0% chance of competing for a national title, G5 schools will have to do it in basketball. Boise's timing was just right for their move. Marshall peaked too early, imo, and a Western Michigan too late. The access bowl will never offer an opponent that is a real contender because those are in the playoffs. The best we can hope for is to have a 1 in a million win over a playoff team OOC the following year and ride those coattails a little. Basketball, you have a shot every year to get national recognition that will last a long time with a few deep runs.

If MTSU breaks into an elite 8 in the next couple years, after making a little noise the last couple, they will at least get respect in the tournament from their opponents, if not by the elite ass-kissing sports pundits.
06-23-2017 10:56 PM
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techdawg28 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
Although I agree the chances of actually competing for a title are exponentially greater in basketball, I wouldn't say there's a 0% chance in football. 1% maybe, but not 0%. If UH had gone undefeated, it would have been hard to keep them out. Maybe they would have been, but there's a chance.

The only thing is, for a G5 to make it in, you basically have to have two or more straight dominant years. UH was only able to get as high as #6 this past year thanks to their run in 2015. So that makes it harder for us, but not impossible. Had UH gone undefeated and been left out at 5 or 6, you'd have to at least think that another undefeated season the next year would get them in.

I will say we probably won't see it happen anytime soon and hope we see an 8-team playoff with a G5 autobid at some point, but hypothetically it could happen.
06-23-2017 11:40 PM
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HerdZoned Offline
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Post: #71
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-23-2017 11:40 PM)techdawg28 Wrote:  Although I agree the chances of actually competing for a title are exponentially greater in basketball, I wouldn't say there's a 0% chance in football. 1% maybe, but not 0%. If UH had gone undefeated, it would have been hard to keep them out. Maybe they would have been, but there's a chance.

The only thing is, for a G5 to make it in, you basically have to have two or more straight dominant years. UH was only able to get as high as #6 this past year thanks to their run in 2015. So that makes it harder for us, but not impossible. Had UH gone undefeated and been left out at 5 or 6, you'd have to at least think that another undefeated season the next year would get them in.

I will say we probably won't see it happen anytime soon and hope we see an 8-team playoff with a G5 autobid at some point, but hypothetically it could happen.

You may look at it that way. But to those 13 in the selection room it wouldn't have been hard at all. They would have looked at who they played and said "Nope", sure you beat Oklahoma but then you played 5-6 games with teams who won a total of 9 games in a conference not on par with anyone in a P5 conference.

The chance any G5 school ever gets 1 of those 4 spots is nil. Never going to happen. In the near future its going to be 2 SEC or ACC schools, 1 school from 2 other conferences and a P5 conference get snubbed. This so called playoff was set up for about the same 8-12 schools who try and bully the NCAA ever so often with threats of breaking off.
06-24-2017 10:37 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-24-2017 10:37 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 11:40 PM)techdawg28 Wrote:  Although I agree the chances of actually competing for a title are exponentially greater in basketball, I wouldn't say there's a 0% chance in football. 1% maybe, but not 0%. If UH had gone undefeated, it would have been hard to keep them out. Maybe they would have been, but there's a chance.

The only thing is, for a G5 to make it in, you basically have to have two or more straight dominant years. UH was only able to get as high as #6 this past year thanks to their run in 2015. So that makes it harder for us, but not impossible. Had UH gone undefeated and been left out at 5 or 6, you'd have to at least think that another undefeated season the next year would get them in.

I will say we probably won't see it happen anytime soon and hope we see an 8-team playoff with a G5 autobid at some point, but hypothetically it could happen.

You may look at it that way. But to those 13 in the selection room it wouldn't have been hard at all. They would have looked at who they played and said "Nope", sure you beat Oklahoma but then you played 5-6 games with teams who won a total of 9 games in a conference not on par with anyone in a P5 conference.

The chance any G5 school ever gets 1 of those 4 spots is nil. Never going to happen. In the near future its going to be 2 SEC or ACC schools, 1 school from 2 other conferences and a P5 conference get snubbed. This so called playoff was set up for about the same 8-12 schools who try and bully the NCAA ever so often with threats of breaking off.

They were pretty convincing against UL as well but they coog' it so the points moot.
06-24-2017 01:55 PM
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MUther Offline
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Post: #73
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-24-2017 01:55 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-24-2017 10:37 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 11:40 PM)techdawg28 Wrote:  Although I agree the chances of actually competing for a title are exponentially greater in basketball, I wouldn't say there's a 0% chance in football. 1% maybe, but not 0%. If UH had gone undefeated, it would have been hard to keep them out. Maybe they would have been, but there's a chance.

The only thing is, for a G5 to make it in, you basically have to have two or more straight dominant years. UH was only able to get as high as #6 this past year thanks to their run in 2015. So that makes it harder for us, but not impossible. Had UH gone undefeated and been left out at 5 or 6, you'd have to at least think that another undefeated season the next year would get them in.

I will say we probably won't see it happen anytime soon and hope we see an 8-team playoff with a G5 autobid at some point, but hypothetically it could happen.

You may look at it that way. But to those 13 in the selection room it wouldn't have been hard at all. They would have looked at who they played and said "Nope", sure you beat Oklahoma but then you played 5-6 games with teams who won a total of 9 games in a conference not on par with anyone in a P5 conference.

The chance any G5 school ever gets 1 of those 4 spots is nil. Never going to happen. In the near future its going to be 2 SEC or ACC schools, 1 school from 2 other conferences and a P5 conference get snubbed. This so called playoff was set up for about the same 8-12 schools who try and bully the NCAA ever so often with threats of breaking off.

They were pretty convincing against UL as well but they coog' it so the points moot.

And why would they give it to UH at #5 or #6 when there are four spots ahead of them and only 4 teams in? I think they would have shown better than OSU in the playoffs, but I don't get to make that call. Some assclown from a P5 stacked committee does and they just don't believe we belong.
06-24-2017 02:51 PM
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ODUsmitty Offline
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Post: #74
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
To the OP, depends on your focus and commitment. The old CAA was a great basketball conference (and damned good 1-AA football conference). George Mason has not football team, made a great run to the Final Four, and did nothing with the result. They did get an invite to the Atlantic-10, but have been largely irrelevant since. VCU made a similar run (no football either) and has parlayed that into multiple NCAA bids, great exposure, and a rabid fanbase. While I loathe them, they were smart when the opportunity arose.

ODU was on par with VCU (even beat VCU 2/3 times the Final Four year), but was focused on football. That earned us the CUSA invite. BB has been stagnant, while football has had success in a very short time in both 1-AA and FBS.

What's the difference? ODU wanted to be a more regional power in the mold of Tech and UVA. That is a much harder and longer road to travel, and one that many of us have had big concerns along the way. I love our football team, and been a 10-seat season ticket holder since day one, but you wonder if that investment robbed the kitty for basketball. And with the student fee and COA issues, it only gets harder. We are thrilled with our latest 10-win season, but are furious that our cherished Men's BB team has not made the tourney in recent years. We tried to take a really big bite, and it has been a challenge.

Time will tell, but like any business, you need to focus on those things in which you are good. Maybe we were a little damned by being good at both and expecting similar success to come faster. All I know is VCU got it right, GMU got it wrong, JMU never has tried to advance, and we are still trying to find our honey hole.
06-24-2017 10:11 PM
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HerdZoned Offline
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Post: #75
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-24-2017 10:11 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  All I know is VCU got it right, GMU got it wrong, JMU never has tried to advance, and we are still trying to find our honey hole.

I don't think Mason got it wrong. Larrañaga the 3 years before their Final 4 run hit on multiple recruits that was above the normal CAA or even NP5 conference recruits. Larrañaga actually stayed longer than I expected after the Final 4 run.

It was more like lightning in a bottle for a few years rather than over a period of time.
06-24-2017 10:57 PM
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ODUsmitty Offline
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Post: #76
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-24-2017 10:57 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-24-2017 10:11 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  All I know is VCU got it right, GMU got it wrong, JMU never has tried to advance, and we are still trying to find our honey hole.

I don't think Mason got it wrong. Larrañaga the 3 years before their Final 4 run hit on multiple recruits that was above the normal CAA or even NP5 conference recruits. Larrañaga actually stayed longer than I expected after the Final 4 run.

It was more like lightning in a bottle for a few years rather than over a period of time.
Larrenaga is a douche. He openly routed for Northeastern to upset ODU in the bowels of the Richmond Coliseum a year prior to GMU's run. I get rivalries, but that was classless and remembered.
06-24-2017 11:54 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #77
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-23-2017 11:07 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 10:46 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 09:39 AM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Quick Poll: Who has more name recognition? Boise State or Butler?

Butler gets a lot more press and is talked about more than Boise ever is during basketball season.

I've lost track of the number of times I have heard folks wanting their team to be "Boise of the East", I don't recall hearing a "Butler of the South" comment.

Probably because the avatar for building a basketball power outside of the big conferences is Gonzaga, and pretty much everyone who aspires to that kind of success says they want to be the Gonzaga of the East, or Midwest, or South, or wherever.
06-25-2017 11:58 AM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #78
RE: What's Better for Building Brand/Exposure? Football or Basketball
(06-25-2017 11:58 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 11:07 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 10:46 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-23-2017 09:39 AM)pilot172000 Wrote:  Quick Poll: Who has more name recognition? Boise State or Butler?

Butler gets a lot more press and is talked about more than Boise ever is during basketball season.

I've lost track of the number of times I have heard folks wanting their team to be "Boise of the East", I don't recall hearing a "Butler of the South" comment.

Probably because the avatar for building a basketball power outside of the big conferences is Gonzaga, and pretty much everyone who aspires to that kind of success says they want to be the Gonzaga of the East, or Midwest, or South, or wherever.

Well it's a lot harder being a Gonzaga of the East...it will take a couple F4 runs and even then you will need to win 25 or more games almost every year. Doing that without the help of espn.

Gonzaga came along when there was no one in the West doing much of anything. ESPN made Gonzaga who they are with ready made TV games and money, along with exposure.

Lot harder in the east where there is a overload of blueblood P5 basketball programs. There is no need to pump up any of us.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 01:59 PM by WKUYG.)
06-25-2017 01:29 PM
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