(05-26-2017 04:43 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  No statehood, no territory, no American tax money... cut them loose completely.

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(05-26-2017 04:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:34 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:28 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:17 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  So your policy on Puerto Rico is....let them fall apart financially as a result of laws passed without their consent or input...no voting rights for them, and continued colonialization.

And you wonder why many Puerto Ricans, even those that don't support terrorism or independence, sympathize with this guy?

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Again, had he had been a white Confederate, you'd be putting statues up for him. Jefferson Davis ruled over Chancellorsville. Oops.

They have not changed their system and spending. When a corporation goes through bankruptcy it reorganizes, PR needs to that. They can't pay all of the government pensions. A bailout helps Wall St and Hedge funds (they own the debt) not regular PR citizens.

I live in Ohio/Kentucky it is Garfield, Harrison, Taft, Daniel Boone around here.

I don't know, 100 years of rent on the whole island should count for something.

Firstly, PR voters did not want statehood forever but now maybe a slight majority do. This would be a first. Dominican Jamaicans would trade places with PR in a heartbeat and be on planes heading North.

What does the desires of Dominicans and Jamaicans have to do with Puerto Ricans?

Nothing.

If PR votes for statehood, should they get admitted as a state? Or are they just a colony. BTW, New Mexico has SPANISH as an official language in that state. So that's not an excuse.

They know the value of being able to come to the USA with nothing more than an ID.
Auto citizenship status. PR has that. Regarding New Mexico, IDC if their official language is Chinese. Only the USA government can grant PR statehood, they are a drag. 85% of their citizens would automatically qualify for all kinds of welfare.

(05-26-2017 05:38 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 04:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:34 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:28 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:17 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  They have not changed their system and spending. When a corporation goes through bankruptcy it reorganizes, PR needs to that. They can't pay all of the government pensions. A bailout helps Wall St and Hedge funds (they own the debt) not regular PR citizens.

I live in Ohio/Kentucky it is Garfield, Harrison, Taft, Daniel Boone around here.

I don't know, 100 years of rent on the whole island should count for something.

Firstly, PR voters did not want statehood forever but now maybe a slight majority do. This would be a first. Dominican Jamaicans would trade places with PR in a heartbeat and be on planes heading North.

What does the desires of Dominicans and Jamaicans have to do with Puerto Ricans?

Nothing.

If PR votes for statehood, should they get admitted as a state? Or are they just a colony. BTW, New Mexico has SPANISH as an official language in that state. So that's not an excuse.

They know the value of being able to come to the USA with nothing more than an ID.
Auto citizenship status. PR has that. Regarding New Mexico, IDC if their official language is Chinese. Only the USA government can grant PR statehood, they are a drag. 85% of their citizens would automatically qualify for all kinds of welfare.

Well then why the hell did we not grant them independence in 1898? We chose to colonize them. That's on us, not them.

Cut them loose. I don't know why we would want them as a part of our country anyway.

(05-26-2017 06:03 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Cut them loose. I don't know why we would want them as a part of our country anyway.

LOL, BTW, every single Puerto Rican will remain a US citizen under US law. You see, they were all AMERICANS BY BIRTH. You can't take away citizenship without a Constitutional Amendment, which you won't get. Now, its true that you can stop US citizenship for persons born in Puerto Rico AFTER independence, but they'll be related to so many US citizens in any case that they'll end up citizens anyway. Good luck passing a law that will pass constitutional muster in order to denaturalize 6 million American born citizens. Now you could pass a law regarding the citizenship of persons born to expatriates outside the United States, but that's probably going to be challenged in the courts for decades.

And as expatriate citizens of the USA - not tied to special status as Puerto Ricans - which would go away with Independance, all they'd need to do is set up any mailing address in any US state of their choosing, or announce their intention to move to a certain state eventually, and guess what..they can VOTE in US elections as if they're living in the 50 states. Heck, Independence for Puerto Rico would probably result in lots more voters from Puerto Rico in American elections. Now, its possible that you could pass a law banning expatriate voting, but that's probably going to fail under consititutional scrutiny too. And it wouldn't pass.

So what would happen, is that PR would become independent, but all the citizens would remain dual nationals. You could stop all the subsidies. Puerto Rico would default, immediately on its debt.

So does THAT change your view? Somehow I think it does.

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Now that you've realized that you're not cutting Puerto Rico loose to the profit of the GOP, now lets talk about statehood.

(05-26-2017 06:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 06:03 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Cut them loose. I don't know why we would want them as a part of our country anyway.

LOL, BTW, every single Puerto Rican will remain a US citizen under US law. You can't take away citizenship without a Constitutional Amendment, which you won't get. Now, its true that you can stop US citizenship for persons born in Puerto Rico AFTER independence, but they'll be related to so many US citizens in any case that they'll end up citizens anyway.

So what would happen, is that PR would become independent, but all the citizens would remain dual nationals. You could stop all the subsidies. Puerto Rico would default, immediately on its debt.

So does THAT change your view? Somehow I think it does.

No, cut the fat. Cut them loose. Guam too.

(05-26-2017 06:12 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 06:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 06:03 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Cut them loose. I don't know why we would want them as a part of our country anyway.

LOL, BTW, every single Puerto Rican will remain a US citizen under US law. You can't take away citizenship without a Constitutional Amendment, which you won't get. Now, its true that you can stop US citizenship for persons born in Puerto Rico AFTER independence, but they'll be related to so many US citizens in any case that they'll end up citizens anyway.

So what would happen, is that PR would become independent, but all the citizens would remain dual nationals. You could stop all the subsidies. Puerto Rico would default, immediately on its debt.

So does THAT change your view? Somehow I think it does.

No, cut the fat. Cut them loose. Guam too.

Ok...so long as you understand that they're all going to remain American citizens, and that they'll all be voting in American elections in basically the state of their choosing....then you understand the scenario. You can stop the payments. And they'll default on our banks. And they'll have no problem getting financing either.

As far as Guam/CNMI goes, that will never happen. We need it militarily.

American Samoa, who have citizens that are NOT full American citizens (they are American Nationals under law - with fewer rights), although that's being challenged, is the more interesting case.

They do not vote in Presidential elections unless registered and living in the USA. They are a drag. Again good job derailing a thread about a Terrorist being honored in NYC. That is all I need to know. Spain can babysit them again.

(05-26-2017 05:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 04:43 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  No statehood, no territory, no American tax money... cut them loose completely.

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So you agree with the PR Independence groups? Okay.

I honestly dgaf what they do. If they want it they can have it. PR is a net loser for the USA. I wouldn't care if CA left either.

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(05-26-2017 05:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 04:43 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  No statehood, no territory, no American tax money... cut them loose completely.

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So you agree with the PR Independence groups? Okay.

Now if he goes and sets off some bombs you'll be ok with him getting honored at a parade..

(05-26-2017 09:12 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 05:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 04:43 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  No statehood, no territory, no American tax money... cut them loose completely.

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So you agree with the PR Independence groups? Okay.

Now if he goes and sets off some bombs you'll be ok with him getting honored at a parade..

No more than I am with statues and high school named after traitors that forment a rebellion in defense of slavery that killed 600,000 American servicemen and God only knows how many civilians.

Did I say he should be honored? No. I just posted that many Puerto Ricans have a much higher sympathy for him than you might think.

(05-26-2017 08:05 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  They do not vote in Presidential elections unless registered and living in the USA. They are a drag. Again good job derailing a thread about a Terrorist being honored in NYC. That is all I need to know. Spain can babysit them again.

LOL.

Here's how it works.

If you're born an American citizen, you remain an American citizen. All American citizens have the right to vote in American elections. Puerto Ricans, DC residents, USVI residents, American Samoan residents, and CNMI residents vote in American elections (albeit local elections in their home islands - which are American). But for those American citizens living outside the USA who have no tie to a territory or commonwealth, they get to vote in either the American state they left, or the American state the designate as their intended return place. So if Puerto Rico is no longer American....and Puerto Ricans are still American citizens (and they would be)......guess what? They're just like the American military contractor living in Germany or Turkey working and living abroad.

Without a Constitutional Amendment, basically all the current residents of Puerto Ricans would remain US citizens and would be come expatriate voters. You're not getting a Constitutional Amendment passed.

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Now you could try to pass a law de-naturalizing persons born as American citizens. The courts will strike that down quickly.
You could pass a law telling some natural born American born citizens that they cannot vote in any American election. That's not going to work either.
You could force Puerto Ricans to choose American or Puerto Rican citizenship, but that's going to be a problem too. And 90% of Puerto Rican citizens (there is actually such a thing btw) will simply choose to be American citizens - and Puerto Rico will just open up their voting to all residents without any requirement to be a citizen.

(05-26-2017 11:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Did I say he should be honored? No. I just posted that many Puerto Ricans have a much higher sympathy for him than you might think.

I know, you have to spin everything over to "your" issues. You can't just say "They should have picked a different person"...

No.... It's gotta be "muh civil war" or "muh indirect funding"

(05-26-2017 11:36 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 11:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Did I say he should be honored? No. I just posted that many Puerto Ricans have a much higher sympathy for him than you might think.

I know, you have to spin everything over to "your" issues. You can't just say "They should have picked a different person"...

No.... It's gotta be "muh civil war" or "muh indirect funding"

I don't see any significant difference between running a government responsible for Andersonville and a domestic terrorist.