(05-29-2017 01:06 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 10:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:17 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 05:36 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

Because the Lawson's are not the big fish at KU like they were at Memphis. They will have to earn playing time instead of a paycheck for dad.

You, unwittingly I'm sure, confirmed that Self knows how to handle potential issues. Tubby, OTHO, actively created issues by hiring his (to put it mildly) underachieving son and demoting someone with access to talent that Tubby has been unable to obtain.

If Tubby was forced to demote Keelon for reasons we are not privy, at the very least he could have hired a recruiter able to haul in high level talent by using the abundant advantages available at Memphis. Joe is a hard worker and productive, but he cannot do it by himself.

Saul has to go. Tubby's fidelity concerning his job lies with the program and not his family.

Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

Tubby had the advantage of having Dad on the payroll but Tubby squandered it. Second, if Tubby could not sit the Lawson's, then it is Tubby's fault for not recruiting better players.

I am surprised seeing the reflexive defense of Tubby - including hiring his son. However, it is a messageboard and I recognize good Tiger fans are entitled to their opinion even when it differs from mine.

You are entitled to your opinions and should expect to have them challenged when they are not based in reality.

Dad on the payroll is only a good thing if he can actually perform his full job function. If you can get the players without dad it is a better situation...wouldn't you agree? Self has the better deal without a doubt.

(05-29-2017 08:58 AM)DallasTiger Wrote:  A COMMERCIAL APPEAL interview with Saul. Some of you may have seen this but those out of town probably missed it.

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/spor...87971.html

Quote:Recruiting, to me, is the lifeblood of a program. But the great thing about working for a guy like Coach Smith is if a player is not interested or kind of puts us to the side, we don't even worry about it. We just move on to the next kid. He's won with less players; he's won with great players. So when a kid struggles to figure out what he wants to do, we're like, 'Look, you've got a scholarship offer. We're willing to take you if you really want to come. We're letting you know we've got two or three other kids in mind.' And if they say, 'Coach, I'm gonna wait,' I'm like, 'Well, it's been great. Let us know if we can do something for you,' and we'll just go sign the other kid. We don't have time for that.

The about quote shows he doesn't understand media or marketing.

(05-29-2017 02:42 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 08:58 AM)DallasTiger Wrote:  A COMMERCIAL APPEAL interview with Saul. Some of you may have seen this but those out of town probably missed it.

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/spor...87971.html

Quote:Recruiting, to me, is the lifeblood of a program. But the great thing about working for a guy like Coach Smith is if a player is not interested or kind of puts us to the side, we don't even worry about it. We just move on to the next kid. He's won with less players; he's won with great players. So when a kid struggles to figure out what he wants to do, we're like, 'Look, you've got a scholarship offer. We're willing to take you if you really want to come. We're letting you know we've got two or three other kids in mind.' And if they say, 'Coach, I'm gonna wait,' I'm like, 'Well, it's been great. Let us know if we can do something for you,' and we'll just go sign the other kid. We don't have time for that.

The about quote shows he doesn't understand media or marketing.

Yeah that quote makes him sound like a bozo

(05-29-2017 02:47 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:42 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 08:58 AM)DallasTiger Wrote:  A COMMERCIAL APPEAL interview with Saul. Some of you may have seen this but those out of town probably missed it.

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/spor...87971.html

Quote:Recruiting, to me, is the lifeblood of a program. But the great thing about working for a guy like Coach Smith is if a player is not interested or kind of puts us to the side, we don't even worry about it. We just move on to the next kid. He's won with less players; he's won with great players. So when a kid struggles to figure out what he wants to do, we're like, 'Look, you've got a scholarship offer. We're willing to take you if you really want to come. We're letting you know we've got two or three other kids in mind.' And if they say, 'Coach, I'm gonna wait,' I'm like, 'Well, it's been great. Let us know if we can do something for you,' and we'll just go sign the other kid. We don't have time for that.

The about quote shows he doesn't understand media or marketing.

Yeah that quote makes him sound like a bozo

I have yet to hear one good thing about Saul, except for his father calling him a basketball savant. I have talked to quite a few people and it is one negative thing after another after another.

I have yet to read one sensible defense of Tubby's hiring of his son for the Assistant Coach position.

For the good of the program, he should seek opportunities elsewhere.

(05-29-2017 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 01:06 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 10:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:17 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  Because the Lawson's are not the big fish at KU like they were at Memphis. They will have to earn playing time instead of a paycheck for dad.

You, unwittingly I'm sure, confirmed that Self knows how to handle potential issues. Tubby, OTHO, actively created issues by hiring his (to put it mildly) underachieving son and demoting someone with access to talent that Tubby has been unable to obtain.

If Tubby was forced to demote Keelon for reasons we are not privy, at the very least he could have hired a recruiter able to haul in high level talent by using the abundant advantages available at Memphis. Joe is a hard worker and productive, but he cannot do it by himself.

Saul has to go. Tubby's fidelity concerning his job lies with the program and not his family.

Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

Tubby had the advantage of having Dad on the payroll but Tubby squandered it. Second, if Tubby could not sit the Lawson's, then it is Tubby's fault for not recruiting better players.

I am surprised seeing the reflexive defense of Tubby - including hiring his son. However, it is a messageboard and I recognize good Tiger fans are entitled to their opinion even when it differs from mine.

You are entitled to your opinions and should expect to have them challenged when they are not based in reality.

Dad on the payroll is only a good thing if he can actually perform his full job function. If you can get the players without dad it is a better situation...wouldn't you agree? Self has the better deal without a doubt.

Yes, it would be better not to have to hire the Dad to obtain the talent we desperately need. If Self can do it, then Tubby can do it, also. Tubby failed.

You see, Tubby is the Memphis head coach. He is paid a handsome salary. He should be accountable and held responsible for results.

The results to date are subpar from on-court performance, media relations, and recruiting.

Now a question for you, please. Do you think hiring Saul was a good idea? If so, why? If not, what can be done about it?

(05-29-2017 03:21 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 01:06 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 10:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  You, unwittingly I'm sure, confirmed that Self knows how to handle potential issues. Tubby, OTHO, actively created issues by hiring his (to put it mildly) underachieving son and demoting someone with access to talent that Tubby has been unable to obtain.

If Tubby was forced to demote Keelon for reasons we are not privy, at the very least he could have hired a recruiter able to haul in high level talent by using the abundant advantages available at Memphis. Joe is a hard worker and productive, but he cannot do it by himself.

Saul has to go. Tubby's fidelity concerning his job lies with the program and not his family.

Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

Tubby had the advantage of having Dad on the payroll but Tubby squandered it. Second, if Tubby could not sit the Lawson's, then it is Tubby's fault for not recruiting better players.

I am surprised seeing the reflexive defense of Tubby - including hiring his son. However, it is a messageboard and I recognize good Tiger fans are entitled to their opinion even when it differs from mine.

You are entitled to your opinions and should expect to have them challenged when they are not based in reality.

Dad on the payroll is only a good thing if he can actually perform his full job function. If you can get the players without dad it is a better situation...wouldn't you agree? Self has the better deal without a doubt.

Yes, it would be better not to have to hire the Dad to obtain the talent we desperately need. If Self can do it, then Tubby can do it, also. Tubby failed.

You see, Tubby is the Memphis head coach. He is paid a handsome salary. He should be accountable and held responsible for results.

The results to date are subpar from on-court performance, media relations, and recruiting.

Now a question for you, please. Do you think hiring Saul was a good idea? If so, why? If not, what can be done about it?

You scare The he!! Out of me. You this one track closed minded in real life? Just asking? If so hope we are in different parts of the country

(05-29-2017 02:50 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:47 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:42 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 08:58 AM)DallasTiger Wrote:  A COMMERCIAL APPEAL interview with Saul. Some of you may have seen this but those out of town probably missed it.

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/spor...87971.html

Quote:Recruiting, to me, is the lifeblood of a program. But the great thing about working for a guy like Coach Smith is if a player is not interested or kind of puts us to the side, we don't even worry about it. We just move on to the next kid. He's won with less players; he's won with great players. So when a kid struggles to figure out what he wants to do, we're like, 'Look, you've got a scholarship offer. We're willing to take you if you really want to come. We're letting you know we've got two or three other kids in mind.' And if they say, 'Coach, I'm gonna wait,' I'm like, 'Well, it's been great. Let us know if we can do something for you,' and we'll just go sign the other kid. We don't have time for that.

The about quote shows he doesn't understand media or marketing.

Yeah that quote makes him sound like a bozo

I have yet to hear one good thing about Saul, except for his father calling him a basketball savant. I have talked to quite a few people and it is one negative thing after another after another.

Forcing Tubby to fire Saul might be our get out of jail free card.

(05-29-2017 07:00 PM)TxTiger79 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 03:21 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 01:06 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

Tubby had the advantage of having Dad on the payroll but Tubby squandered it. Second, if Tubby could not sit the Lawson's, then it is Tubby's fault for not recruiting better players.

I am surprised seeing the reflexive defense of Tubby - including hiring his son. However, it is a messageboard and I recognize good Tiger fans are entitled to their opinion even when it differs from mine.

You are entitled to your opinions and should expect to have them challenged when they are not based in reality.

Dad on the payroll is only a good thing if he can actually perform his full job function. If you can get the players without dad it is a better situation...wouldn't you agree? Self has the better deal without a doubt.

Yes, it would be better not to have to hire the Dad to obtain the talent we desperately need. If Self can do it, then Tubby can do it, also. Tubby failed.

You see, Tubby is the Memphis head coach. He is paid a handsome salary. He should be accountable and held responsible for results.

The results to date are subpar from on-court performance, media relations, and recruiting.

Now a question for you, please. Do you think hiring Saul was a good idea? If so, why? If not, what can be done about it?

You scare The he!! Out of me. You this one track closed minded in real life? Just asking? If so hope we are in different parts of the country

Man, no kidding. Saul, Saul, Saul. Keelon, Keelon, Keelon.. blah, blah, blah

We get it, you don't like the hire. Tell you what, pull out the checkbook and pay out his contract. Until then, you are just gonna rot inside worrying about things you have absolutely no control over.

(05-29-2017 03:21 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 01:06 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 10:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  You, unwittingly I'm sure, confirmed that Self knows how to handle potential issues. Tubby, OTHO, actively created issues by hiring his (to put it mildly) underachieving son and demoting someone with access to talent that Tubby has been unable to obtain.

If Tubby was forced to demote Keelon for reasons we are not privy, at the very least he could have hired a recruiter able to haul in high level talent by using the abundant advantages available at Memphis. Joe is a hard worker and productive, but he cannot do it by himself.

Saul has to go. Tubby's fidelity concerning his job lies with the program and not his family.

Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

Tubby had the advantage of having Dad on the payroll but Tubby squandered it. Second, if Tubby could not sit the Lawson's, then it is Tubby's fault for not recruiting better players.

I am surprised seeing the reflexive defense of Tubby - including hiring his son. However, it is a messageboard and I recognize good Tiger fans are entitled to their opinion even when it differs from mine.

You are entitled to your opinions and should expect to have them challenged when they are not based in reality.

Dad on the payroll is only a good thing if he can actually perform his full job function. If you can get the players without dad it is a better situation...wouldn't you agree? Self has the better deal without a doubt.

Yes, it would be better not to have to hire the Dad to obtain the talent we desperately need. If Self can do it, then Tubby can do it, also. Tubby failed.

You see, Tubby is the Memphis head coach. He is paid a handsome salary. He should be accountable and held responsible for results.

The results to date are subpar from on-court performance, media relations, and recruiting.

Now a question for you, please. Do you think hiring Saul was a good idea? If so, why? If not, what can be done about it?

Hiring Saul or Demoting Lawson doesn't change the dynamics of the situation of having the sons coach on Staff. That is what you are missing, you think everything would have been rosy if Lawson was allowed to stay an assistant. Looking at how things turned out I seriously doubt that.

(05-29-2017 08:10 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 03:21 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 01:06 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

Tubby had the advantage of having Dad on the payroll but Tubby squandered it. Second, if Tubby could not sit the Lawson's, then it is Tubby's fault for not recruiting better players.

I am surprised seeing the reflexive defense of Tubby - including hiring his son. However, it is a messageboard and I recognize good Tiger fans are entitled to their opinion even when it differs from mine.

You are entitled to your opinions and should expect to have them challenged when they are not based in reality.

Dad on the payroll is only a good thing if he can actually perform his full job function. If you can get the players without dad it is a better situation...wouldn't you agree? Self has the better deal without a doubt.

Yes, it would be better not to have to hire the Dad to obtain the talent we desperately need. If Self can do it, then Tubby can do it, also. Tubby failed.

You see, Tubby is the Memphis head coach. He is paid a handsome salary. He should be accountable and held responsible for results.

The results to date are subpar from on-court performance, media relations, and recruiting.

Now a question for you, please. Do you think hiring Saul was a good idea? If so, why? If not, what can be done about it?

Hiring Saul or Demoting Lawson doesn't change the dynamics of the situation of having the sons coach on Staff. That is what you are missing, you think everything would have been rosy if Lawson was allowed to stay an assistant. Looking at how things turned out I seriously doubt that.

Your reply to my question was illuminating. Thanks.

(05-27-2017 11:24 AM)roachman48 Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:37 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote:  Oh those classy Lawsons

I will just throw this comment out there.

Dedric and KJ always showed poise, sportsmanship and class on the court during there time with us tigers. I do not remember any negative incidents on court.

Of course, KJ did some lousy things in social media upon his exit. That was a mistake that he should own up to.

I do not know the Lawsons personally. I am not happy about their leaving us.
But imho, they do not deserve some of the criticism of character that they have received from some Tiger fans.

KJ did not always show poise on the court - or off. There were private incidents. There were also the huddle-laughing, jawing with fans on the court, arguing with refs. There has been plenty of smoke. And I was one that said he just needed to mature and give him time.

But the 2 things he did on the way out the door are all we need to give us the right to criticize his character. He publicly gave the program the finger - literally. So public criticism is very fair.

(05-29-2017 09:40 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-27-2017 11:24 AM)roachman48 Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:37 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote:  Oh those classy Lawsons

I will just throw this comment out there.

Dedric and KJ always showed poise, sportsmanship and class on the court during there time with us tigers. I do not remember any negative incidents on court.

Of course, KJ did some lousy things in social media upon his exit. That was a mistake that he should own up to.

I do not know the Lawsons personally. I am not happy about their leaving us.
But imho, they do not deserve some of the criticism of character that they have received from some Tiger fans.

KJ did not always show poise on the court - or off. There were private incidents. There were also the huddle-laughing, jawing with fans on the court, arguing with refs. There has been plenty of smoke. And I was one that said he just needed to mature and give him time.

But the 2 things he did on the way out the door are all we need to give us the right to criticize his character. He publicly gave the program the finger - literally. So public criticism is very fair.

Can you tell us about these private incidents? I know he made an idiot of himself in the video, the same video recorded by Tubby's guy Clergeot, but tell us about these private incidents. Also explain to us how Clergeot, who Tubby proclaimed as one of his kind of players, recorded and posted it? Then take it a step forward and tell us why Clergeot (Tubby's guy) who was vetted for years by Tubby would even be hanging out with a "cancer" like KJ in the first place.

Also if public criticism of KJ is fair, is it not also fair to publicly criticize Tubby?

Plenty of room to criticize Tubby. It's just when the criticism presumes that nationally observed, repeated behavior either never happened before, had no effect on team dynamics or performance if it did, or was completely the fault of the coach rather than the player involved, that it begins to border on obsessive compulsive behavior rather than honest discussion.

(05-29-2017 08:49 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 08:10 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 03:21 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 01:06 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Tubby had the advantage of having Dad on the payroll but Tubby squandered it. Second, if Tubby could not sit the Lawson's, then it is Tubby's fault for not recruiting better players.

I am surprised seeing the reflexive defense of Tubby - including hiring his son. However, it is a messageboard and I recognize good Tiger fans are entitled to their opinion even when it differs from mine.

You are entitled to your opinions and should expect to have them challenged when they are not based in reality.

Dad on the payroll is only a good thing if he can actually perform his full job function. If you can get the players without dad it is a better situation...wouldn't you agree? Self has the better deal without a doubt.

Yes, it would be better not to have to hire the Dad to obtain the talent we desperately need. If Self can do it, then Tubby can do it, also. Tubby failed.

You see, Tubby is the Memphis head coach. He is paid a handsome salary. He should be accountable and held responsible for results.

The results to date are subpar from on-court performance, media relations, and recruiting.

Now a question for you, please. Do you think hiring Saul was a good idea? If so, why? If not, what can be done about it?

Hiring Saul or Demoting Lawson doesn't change the dynamics of the situation of having the sons coach on Staff. That is what you are missing, you think everything would have been rosy if Lawson was allowed to stay an assistant. Looking at how things turned out I seriously doubt that.

Your reply to my question was illuminating. Thanks.

Lol...Everyone sees hiring Saul is not a net plus but keeping Lawson as an assistant may not have been on either. You act like your statement about Saul is the equivalent of you discovering cold fusion...It is an obvious fault with the Tubby regime that everyone sees but you act like it needs to be constantly pointed out.

Some of you really need to really examine your priorities in life.

(05-29-2017 11:25 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Some of you really need to really examine your priorities in life.

Pot meet kettle

(05-29-2017 11:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 08:49 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 08:10 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 03:21 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 02:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  You are entitled to your opinions and should expect to have them challenged when they are not based in reality.

Dad on the payroll is only a good thing if he can actually perform his full job function. If you can get the players without dad it is a better situation...wouldn't you agree? Self has the better deal without a doubt.

Yes, it would be better not to have to hire the Dad to obtain the talent we desperately need. If Self can do it, then Tubby can do it, also. Tubby failed.

You see, Tubby is the Memphis head coach. He is paid a handsome salary. He should be accountable and held responsible for results.

The results to date are subpar from on-court performance, media relations, and recruiting.

Now a question for you, please. Do you think hiring Saul was a good idea? If so, why? If not, what can be done about it?

Hiring Saul or Demoting Lawson doesn't change the dynamics of the situation of having the sons coach on Staff. That is what you are missing, you think everything would have been rosy if Lawson was allowed to stay an assistant. Looking at how things turned out I seriously doubt that.

Your reply to my question was illuminating. Thanks.

Lol...Everyone sees hiring Saul is not a net plus but keeping Lawson as an assistant may not have been on either. You act like your statement about Saul is the equivalent of you discovering cold fusion...It is an obvious fault with the Tubby regime that everyone sees but you act like it needs to be constantly pointed out.

I count at least two logic flaws in your last reply, although I agree that hiring Saul was "an obvious fault with the Tubby regime." I've enjoyed our discussion.

Tubby wanted his son as an assistant coach-perceived as a bad move by most, IMO. Myself included.

Tubby didn't want Keelon as an assistant coach, even if it cost us the Lawsons-perceived as a good move by many, IMO. Myself included.

Do we want the head coach to have the right to pick his own staff, or not? We (I) seem to want to give the coach the right to pick his own staff, as long as we (I) get to approve the hires. That's kinda laughable, seeing it in print.

Personally, I think the entire situation stinks. Chronologically:
1. Hiring Keelon in order to get the Lawson kids reeked. I was against it from day one. I understand it, sure, but I still thought it reeked. And the end certainly didn't justify the means, IMO.
2. Hiring Tubby didn't stink, per se, IMO. We apparently were looking for the anti-Pastner. We got him. What did (does) stink, however, is that it appears we've only got one assistant who's on the front lines recruiting. I hope it works for us but I'm not confident.
3. Hiring Saul reeked, too, for reasons covered ad nauseum here and elsewhere. I understand it, sure, but I still think it reeks.

It's an imperfect system, and we have a dysfunctional situation at the U of M basketball offices, IMO. Can it work? Maybe. Will it work? I don't know. There's a lot to overcome.

My thoughts are generally clear; my typing, not so much.

(05-29-2017 09:43 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 09:40 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-27-2017 11:24 AM)roachman48 Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 01:37 PM)MemphisFan95 Wrote:  Oh those classy Lawsons

I will just throw this comment out there.

Dedric and KJ always showed poise, sportsmanship and class on the court during there time with us tigers. I do not remember any negative incidents on court.

Of course, KJ did some lousy things in social media upon his exit. That was a mistake that he should own up to.

I do not know the Lawsons personally. I am not happy about their leaving us.
But imho, they do not deserve some of the criticism of character that they have received from some Tiger fans.

KJ did not always show poise on the court - or off. There were private incidents. There were also the huddle-laughing, jawing with fans on the court, arguing with refs. There has been plenty of smoke. And I was one that said he just needed to mature and give him time.

But the 2 things he did on the way out the door are all we need to give us the right to criticize his character. He publicly gave the program the finger - literally. So public criticism is very fair.

Can you tell us about these private incidents? I know he made an idiot of himself in the video, the same video recorded by Tubby's guy Clergeot, but tell us about these private incidents. Also explain to us how Clergeot, who Tubby proclaimed as one of his kind of players, recorded and posted it? Then take it a step forward and tell us why Clergeot (Tubby's guy) who was vetted for years by Tubby would even be hanging out with a "cancer" like KJ in the first place.

Also if public criticism of KJ is fair, is it not also fair to publicly criticize Tubby?

Strange that this was your takeaway from my post. Well, not really.

I can't tell you about the private incidents because they were private, lol. There is plenty of smoke though. From KJ saying he had no friends on the team, to the obvious rift between Markel and him, to the curfew incident on the FL trip, to the comments he was rumored to have made to media and others.

As for Clergeot, you're way off topic. As far as I know, Keon was not at the gym the other day.

All I'm saying is that if you only have the two things KJ did on his way out the door - and surely you can't dispute those, other than try to shift blame elsewhere - then that alone gives you enough hard evidence to question KJ's character. I didn't use the cancer phrase. But anyone reasonable can look at that publicly and some of the other circumstantial stuff and see that there probably was a problem.

As for Tubby criticism - knock yourself out. You've been trying, but evidently you need a few more shots.