(05-22-2017 07:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-21-2017 09:14 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(05-21-2017 08:56 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(05-21-2017 06:40 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(05-21-2017 03:26 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:   http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state...cincinnati

What else can you do but laugh about that clown from Arkansas? Thank God he's gone and thank God we now have someone who gets it.

I think a big question would be is how in the heck did the AD not know and do something about this sooner?

Coaches were openly talking about this as early as 2013. Folks like Marcus and I were banging the drum on here about what recruits, families, and HS head coaches were saying about Coach Persona Non Grata and some people got their panties all in a wad over it.

I believe it. Does not paint a pretty picture about the AD though. It is his darn job to over see these coaches. Hell, he should be out at the local schools as much as possible if it is allowed.

Let's take a step back a little... UC was not going to fire Tuberville in his first or second season... first of all the buyout was ~$5M back then... we don't have that kind of cash laying around even if Tubs was not recruiting locally.. .. second those teams went 9-4 and the 2014 team won a share of the conference championship. A firing was not justifiable and affordable until season three (2015). The buyout dropped to $1.6M and the team folded up shop down the stretch-- not to mention not even showing up to the bowl game in Hawaii. That being said, UC took a risk on one more season.... why they did so I don't know. My take on it is to follow the money. Coaching changes aren't made unless the big donors are ready to pay for it... for whatever reason the Lindners, Larry Sheakley, et al. did not want to reach into their wallet just yet to send him packing (likely due to all the money they just put down on Nippert the year before not to mention what they were going to shell out for 5/3rd).

All the blame lays on the guy who is currently the AD at Virginia Tech for making the hire in the first place.

While assigning blame, I suspect Ono's fingerprints can be found on the decision to retain Tubs; probably even more than Bohn's given what Ono may have believed was a critical period for Big 12 expansion. I believe Mick's "Weekend in Vegas" also led to Ono intervening with a raise and contract extension.

I'm not defending Bohn here; just saying UC had a president who felt he understood athletics and may have taken decisions out of the athletic director's hands. Those who lead businesses know how that totally undermines your managers when their direct reports are rewarded for doing an end around.

My impression on retaining Tuberville last year was that it was a very competitive coaching marketplace that offseason with some big jobs available. I think the administration didn't feel comfortable pulling the trigger and getting their man and gave Tuberville one last year to get everything in order, while being pretty clear that that was it without a turnaround. I also think there is something to be said when you are in the hiring process for being able to tell coaches you are looking for that you gave the previous coach a real opportunity to shape the program and 3 years might not be viewed as such. Was it the right decision? I don't know. Last year was a disaster, but do we look in the same direction the prior offseason? I would have been fine firing Tuberville after year 3, but I think there were other considerations people tend to minimize when it comes to making that decision.

(05-22-2017 08:11 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 07:45 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-21-2017 09:14 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(05-21-2017 08:56 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(05-21-2017 06:40 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  I think a big question would be is how in the heck did the AD not know and do something about this sooner?

Coaches were openly talking about this as early as 2013. Folks like Marcus and I were banging the drum on here about what recruits, families, and HS head coaches were saying about Coach Persona Non Grata and some people got their panties all in a wad over it.

I believe it. Does not paint a pretty picture about the AD though. It is his darn job to over see these coaches. Hell, he should be out at the local schools as much as possible if it is allowed.

Let's take a step back a little... UC was not going to fire Tuberville in his first or second season... first of all the buyout was ~$5M back then... we don't have that kind of cash laying around even if Tubs was not recruiting locally.. .. second those teams went 9-4 and the 2014 team won a share of the conference championship. A firing was not justifiable and affordable until season three (2015). The buyout dropped to $1.6M and the team folded up shop down the stretch-- not to mention not even showing up to the bowl game in Hawaii. That being said, UC took a risk on one more season.... why they did so I don't know. My take on it is to follow the money. Coaching changes aren't made unless the big donors are ready to pay for it... for whatever reason the Lindners, Larry Sheakley, et al. did not want to reach into their wallet just yet to send him packing (likely due to all the money they just put down on Nippert the year before not to mention what they were going to shell out for 5/3rd).

All the blame lays on the guy who is currently the AD at Virginia Tech for making the hire in the first place.

While assigning blame, I suspect Ono's fingerprints can be found on the decision to retain Tubs; probably even more than Bohn's given what Ono may have believed was a critical period for Big 12 expansion. I believe Mick's "Weekend in Vegas" also led to Ono intervening with a raise and contract extension.

I'm not defending Bohn here; just saying UC had a president who felt he understood athletics and may have taken decisions out of the athletic director's hands. Those who lead businesses know how that totally undermines your managers when their direct reports are rewarded for doing an end around.

Don't disagree. As I recall, Tuberville and Mick received their extension in the same week Dr. Ono met privately with Mick about his future. I don't think Bohn was involved at all in these extension (back then some people within our fan base even speculated Bohn had some personal issue with Mick for some unknown reason).

If we recall the university's video package they put together to the Big 12 for expansion, one of the selling points they mentioned at the very beginning was the coaching pedigree and stability in the revenue sports.

>>>If we recall the university's video package they put together to the Big 12 for expansion, one of the selling points they mentioned at the very beginning was the coaching pedigree and stability in the revenue sports.<<<


Right. I think the BIg 12 debacle had a lot to do with retaining TT probably a year too long . It looked like the decision to expand was coming from the Big 12 at any moment and to fire a "big name" coach right at that time would have looked not so good.

Wonder if Fickell was "personally ready" be a head coach after Tuberville's third year. If Luke is the guy for us -- right man, right place, right time -- that may be only because he was ready right when our job opened up. Now it does seem like UC opening up in December of 2015 might have prompted Luke to feel ready then, as he's on record as saying he and his wife had eyed UC for a while before it opened, as well as saying that getting off to a well organized and energized start here was the product of his ramping up to the opportunity in his own mind.

I suspect he would have been ready and Bohn would have hired him a year earlier than he did, had Tuberville been fired a year earlier.

(05-22-2017 06:55 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  I think Specht is practicing a little revisionist history. Since when did Dantonio, Kelly, and Butch own the city? I don't recall any of them winning a single recruiting battle against a big time program for a 4 star local player. They were able to identify and bring in lower rated local talent and develop them, but I wouldn't consider that "owning" Cincinnati.

Who did we get from X during that time? A long snapper and Danny Milligan?

Regardless of who you get, you spend time at the schools. Especially at the local football powerhouses. CLF has been putting so much time in he is getting his mail sent to him at the local programs.

It's like sales. You can't show up and expect to make a sale on your timeframe and terms if you have never spent a minute in the account while your competitors have been building relationships at multiple levels.

Dantonio, Kelly and Jones spent a ton of time in local high schools pressing flesh with coaches and players. Not just the big schools, either but smaller schools throughout the region to build the brand and to build relationships for when that 8th grade or freshman class is being recruited a couple years down the road. Even though they knew they might be gone in 3 years if the right opportunity presented itself you have to spend investment time like you will be here the rest of your career. Otherwise you shouldn't be here. We got rid of a charlatain. Cause to celebrate.

I see that "Tuberville's weekly beating" thread has arrived.

Not saying he doesn't deserve it.

Next time we need money for the athletic department, we can hire Tuberville to come in and donors get to whack him with a wiffle ball bat for large donations. Tubs can keep 25% for himself.

(05-22-2017 10:43 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Regardless of who you get, you spend time at the schools. Especially at the local football powerhouses. CLF has been putting so much time in he is getting his mail sent to him at the local programs.

It's like sales. You can't show up and expect to make a sale on your timeframe and terms if you have never spent a minute in the account while your competitors have been building relationships at multiple levels.

Dantonio, Kelly and Jones spent a ton of time in local high schools pressing flesh with coaches and players. Not just the big schools, either but smaller schools throughout the region to build the brand and to build relationships for when that 8th grade or freshman class is being recruited a couple years down the road. Even though they knew they might be gone in 3 years if the right opportunity presented itself you have to spend investment time like you will be here the rest of your career. Otherwise you shouldn't be here. We got rid of a charlatain. Cause to celebrate.

Of course Rath all agree with this. We got a lot of good players from the Cincy area during that time but when Specht says UC was killing it, that was a stretch.

Tubberville was questioned many times about not getting local talent and his answer was always the same. He claimed to have sent offers to all the local players which he probably did. But if you're not going to make the effort, do you really believe that anyone is going to sign?

(05-22-2017 11:39 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Tubberville was questioned many times about not getting local talent and his answer was always the same. He claimed to have sent offers to all the local players which he probably did. But if you're not going to make the effort, do you really believe that anyone is going to sign?

I just don't think Tubs was willing to play (or probably even aware of) the modern recruiting game. This may have worked in the 90's, but Fickell is basically running a clinic on modern recruiting here at UC and it makes Tubs look like a PeeWee coach in comparison.

(05-22-2017 10:21 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 06:55 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  I think Specht is practicing a little revisionist history. Since when did Dantonio, Kelly, and Butch own the city? I don't recall any of them winning a single recruiting battle against a big time program for a 4 star local player. They were able to identify and bring in lower rated local talent and develop them, but I wouldn't consider that "owning" Cincinnati.

Who did we get from X during that time? A long snapper and Danny Milligan?

Specht definitely misremembered us owning Cincinnati but the relevant point was that Tubs never once went there. Would've loved to have seen us fire him with cause and make him sue us for his buyout money. But trying to refuse paying a buyout even with good cause is bad publicly when trying to attract coaches.

(05-22-2017 11:26 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 10:43 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Regardless of who you get, you spend time at the schools. Especially at the local football powerhouses. CLF has been putting so much time in he is getting his mail sent to him at the local programs.

It's like sales. You can't show up and expect to make a sale on your timeframe and terms if you have never spent a minute in the account while your competitors have been building relationships at multiple levels.

Dantonio, Kelly and Jones spent a ton of time in local high schools pressing flesh with coaches and players. Not just the big schools, either but smaller schools throughout the region to build the brand and to build relationships for when that 8th grade or freshman class is being recruited a couple years down the road. Even though they knew they might be gone in 3 years if the right opportunity presented itself you have to spend investment time like you will be here the rest of your career. Otherwise you shouldn't be here. We got rid of a charlatain. Cause to celebrate.

Of course Rath all agree with this. We got a lot of good players from the Cincy area during that time but when Specht says UC was killing it, that was a stretch.

The majority of our local recruits during MD, BK and BJ years were all from maybe 3-4 schools (Colerain, Elder, LaSalle and Winton Woods). Seemed like we had more Ohio recruits from NE Ohio and Columbus than from the 513.

I did not get season tickets last year - it was the first year in 5 years I didn't.

I went ahead and ordered 2 just now. I'm not expecting a miracle but I think this team will be prepared as best as they can every game, which will be a major improvement.

I'm not defending TT, but he's gone. Time to move on. Let's not do the Cincinnati thing and revel in bitching about the past.

(05-22-2017 11:39 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Tubberville was questioned many times about not getting local talent and his answer was always the same. He claimed to have sent offers to all the local players which he probably did. But if you're not going to make the effort, do you really believe that anyone is going to sign?

That is the equivalent of meeting a girl and saying "Do you want to sleep with me?"

Last time I checked dinner, wine, movies, romance, etc. work better.

(05-22-2017 07:38 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 11:39 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Tubberville was questioned many times about not getting local talent and his answer was always the same. He claimed to have sent offers to all the local players which he probably did. But if you're not going to make the effort, do you really believe that anyone is going to sign?

That is the equivalent of meeting a girl and saying "Do you want to sleep with me?"

Last time I checked dinner, wine, movies, romance, etc. work better.

And, obviously caviar...

(05-22-2017 07:38 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 11:39 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Tubberville was questioned many times about not getting local talent and his answer was always the same. He claimed to have sent offers to all the local players which he probably did. But if you're not going to make the effort, do you really believe that anyone is going to sign?

That is the equivalent of meeting a girl and saying "Do you want to sleep with me?"

Last time I checked dinner, wine, movies, romance, etc. work better.

You forgot the Grey Poupon.

(05-22-2017 08:53 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 07:38 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(05-22-2017 11:39 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  Tubberville was questioned many times about not getting local talent and his answer was always the same. He claimed to have sent offers to all the local players which he probably did. But if you're not going to make the effort, do you really believe that anyone is going to sign?

That is the equivalent of meeting a girl and saying "Do you want to sleep with me?"

Last time I checked dinner, wine, movies, romance, etc. work better.

And, obviously caviar...

Ossetra or Beluga?