(05-20-2017 05:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As long as the CFP or similar exists there will be no tweeners.

There will be us and them.
Those who have a guaranteed slot in the elite and events and guaranteed major share of the post-season event revenue and those who have to compete for a slot and are guaranteed a smaller share.

Actually, I go further than that--there are those with a CFP level contract bowl and those without any major bowl of any kind.

When I say "no major bowl of any kind"---I mean nothing. No G5 has a high tier non-contract bowl with 3 million+ per team pay outs like the Cactus, Gator, or Alamo. Heck, no G5 even has a single non-CFP mid-tier bowl like the Sun Bowl, Music City, Texas, or Belk. In fact, the vast majority of all the G5 bowls are low end bowls with payout of less than a million per team (and most all with G5 ties are SUBSTANTIALLY less than a a million per team).

So, to say there isnt room for a middle ground is not completely true. Yes---you either do or dont have a contract bowl. But there is a lot of ground between having no contract bowl and having nothing but the bottom tier bowls. Even in the bifucated P5/G5 bowl post season that the CFP has created---there is a middle ground where no G5 currently exists---but could. That said, I think its easier for a G5 conference to get a 5-7 million dollar per team TV deal than it is to gain access to a upper/mid tier non-CFP bowl. One is just a dollars and cents business proposition---the other requires overcoming college football elitism.

One thing that helps is the P5 can't just play itself all of the time in 3-4 bowl matchups with the same conference. It becomes boring for fans.

The AAC has enough quality/perception/fans distributed over the eastern 2/3rds of college football that it could be equivalent to a mid-tier P5 match. The MWC has this dynamic to a lessor extent. For the MAC/CUSA/SBC they are interesting when they produce a high win/loss team.

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

You keep advancing the same idea.

Those bowls do NOT want a g5 champion much less a match-up between TWO g5 schools. They would rather have a 5 or 6 win Power Conference school than a g5 match-up. Why? Because they sell more tickets and draw more eyes for a "Minnesota-Mississippi State" match-up than a game featuring a school from the g conferences.

Not only that, the Power conferences do not want bowl deals with the g5 conferences. If they win, nobody will care because they are supposed to. But if they lose...if their 8th placed school loses to the top of the g, then people criticize them.

It just isn't happening...

(05-20-2017 06:34 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

So the Sun will give up a P12 vs ACC team, the Liberty ups a B12 vs SEC or Gator gives up SEC vs B10/ACC for an AAC team

Doubt the realism if you want but something like this is what the AAC/G5 need for recruiting.

Not having your champ guaranteed to a mid or upper tier bowl but just a shared CFP slot reeks of buster. It doesn't matter if each G5 conference has 5,6,7 overall bowls if its the small time pre-christmas stuff.

(05-20-2017 06:39 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

You keep advancing the same idea.

Those bowls do NOT want a g5 champion much less a match-up between TWO g5 schools. They would rather have a 5 or 6 win Power Conference school than a g5 match-up. Why? Because they sell more tickets and draw more eyes for a "Minnesota-Mississippi State" match-up than a game featuring a school from the g conferences.

Not only that, the Power conferences do not want bowl deals with the g5 conferences. If they win, nobody will care because they are supposed to. But if they lose...if their 8th placed school loses to the top of the g, then people criticize them.

It just isn't happening...

Let's take last year as an example. It's participants that were front and center of the access bowl race.

Cotton Bowl (#15 WMU) vs. P5
Gator Bowl (#25 Navy) vs. P5
Liberty Bowl (#24 Temple) vs. P5
Sun Bowl (N/R San Diego St) vs. P5

The G5 by committee has enough quality to send to major bowls. How would that have looked in 2015?

Peach Bowl (#18 Houston) vs. P5
Gator Bowl (#24 Temple) vs. P5
Liberty Bowl (N/R Western Kentucky) vs. P5
Sun Bowl (#21 Navy) vs. P5

2015 was a big AAC year with 3 teams in the final CFP standings so it's only appropriate to see them with the Peach, Gator and Sun bowl that year.

Conversely if it was a down year for the AAC and a big MWC year, the MWC could have 3 slots while the AAC 1 (they would always get at least 1 of the Gator, Liberty or Sun for their champ).

(05-20-2017 06:40 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:34 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

So the Sun will give up a P12 vs ACC team, the Liberty ups a B12 vs SEC or Gator gives up SEC vs B10/ACC for an AAC team

Doubt the realism if you want but something like this is what the AAC/G5 need for recruiting.

Not having your champ guaranteed to a mid or upper tier bowl but just a shared CFP slot reeks of buster. It doesn't matter if each G5 conference has 5,6,7 overall bowls if its the small time pre-christmas stuff.

Friendly reminder, I am a P5 fan and ACC fan. I don't think any P5 fans really are worried about helping the G5 recruit.

(05-20-2017 07:36 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:40 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:34 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

So the Sun will give up a P12 vs ACC team, the Liberty ups a B12 vs SEC or Gator gives up SEC vs B10/ACC for an AAC team

Doubt the realism if you want but something like this is what the AAC/G5 need for recruiting.

Not having your champ guaranteed to a mid or upper tier bowl but just a shared CFP slot reeks of buster. It doesn't matter if each G5 conference has 5,6,7 overall bowls if its the small time pre-christmas stuff.

Friendly reminder, I am a P5 fan and ACC fan. I don't think any P5 fans really are worried about helping the G5 recruit.

The tide of progress is eventually going to build better G5 programs.

You'll have what you have in men's basketball eventually where every couple of years the G5 has a team finish in the Top 4.

The bowl series I'm proposing is for the purposes of keeping up with the evolution.

Can the AAC become a true tweener conference?
NO

(05-20-2017 05:02 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 04:07 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I would say yes. But they need to do a few things to cement it.

1st, Get a name contract bowl with a P5 conference. Or create one.

2nd, Expand. The AAC has several quality program's. But they may be able to add to them. If Baylor gets booted from the Big 12. Then the AAC would be a good landing spot. They could also look to add Colorado state or New Mexico. If Baylor doesn't get booted. Then try and expand with CSU and UNM before current media contract expires.

3rd, Boost basketball. Which they have been doing with Wichita state addition.

First, why would New Mexico and CSU want to go to AAC. Secondly UNM is a lousy football program near the bottom of MWC, and CSU. is nothing to brag about. Go get BYU if you want, then you get the LGBT protests along with their arrogance and dirty play.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

New Mexico came in 2nd in the mountain division this past season. As far as why they would want to join the AAC. I don't know. But if the AAC wants to get a bigger contract then they must have more brands and markets to offer.

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

The one flaw in your argument is that you and others here feel the AAC is better than the MWC in football, with the exception of last year the MWC is the better of the 2. The MW has also had a couple down years in basketball but just 3 years ago they had 5 in the big dance, they should be better next year.

One thing that concerns me is the P5 schools are poaching the G5s, especially in basketball.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(05-20-2017 08:19 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

The one flaw in your argument is that you and others here feel the AAC is better than the MWC in football, with the exception of last year the MWC is the better of the 2. The MW has also had a couple down years in basketball but just 3 years ago they had 5 in the big dance, they should be better next year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

OP here. I'm one of the few AAC posters who doesn't believe there will ever be a P6, and I think it's an embarrassing marketing ploy. I'd rather be what the old WAC or original MWC were: a darn good Conference that everyone respected and got decent bowls and decent media money.---tweener. Not part of the power structure, but not far off and certainly not thought of as a minor conference.

I agree P6 won't happen, but I do think it is a good market ploy. I do think the AAC can separate itself from G4. It is all about $$$. If we can pull off $4 mil plus per school, we will be light years ahead of CUSA and Belt, and 4 times the MAC, and likely double the MWC. The bowl mess is a tougher nut to crack.

(05-21-2017 07:02 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I agree P6 won't happen, but I do think it is a good market ploy. I do think the AAC can separate itself from G4. It is all about $$$. If we can pull off $4 mil plus per school, we will be light years ahead of CUSA and Belt, and 4 times the MAC, and likely double the MWC. The bowl mess is a tougher nut to crack.

But really, what will making $4m per year, well ahead of the MAC, CUSA, etc. accomplish?

Sure, USF can use a couple extra million a year so I won't turn it down, but let's face it, AAC schools, on average, already have bigger athletic departments/budgets than CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt and more success on the football field and basketball court.

So the advancement will be purely quantitative (more $$$ in the pocket), but not by much, not qualitative (meaning a change in the AAC's stature and position within the college athletics power structure).

A new TV contract that boosts us from say $2m a year to $5m a year will mean ... an extra $3m a year in our pockets, which I acknowledge is something, won't turn it down, but it will mean nothing beyond that. In instrumental terms, it's not enough to allow us to make quantum leaps in our ability to recruit/keep players or fans or coaches, improve facilities, etc., and symbolically, it won't signal to any of those constituencies that we are now "power" or anywhere near the stature of the P5.

(05-20-2017 08:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  OP here. I'm one of the few AAC posters who doesn't believe there will ever be a P6, and I think it's an embarrassing marketing ploy.

Are you and I seriously that alone on those two points? They are correct and merely common sense/obvious (especially #1) so would expect virtually all AAC fans to recognize them even though none of us like those facts.

You are basically saying the great bulk of AAC fans are delusional.

(05-21-2017 07:02 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I agree P6 won't happen, but I do think it is a good market ploy. I do think the AAC can separate itself from G4. It is all about $$$. If we can pull off $4 mil plus per school, we will be light years ahead of CUSA and Belt, and 4 times the MAC, and likely double the MWC. The bowl mess is a tougher nut to crack.

AAC and MWC will be head to head to pull away from the other 3. The issue is that MWC are down after the P5 raided their head coaches. This year, the P5 schools raided the AAC head coaches which could mean that AAC could faced the same issues as MWC where they will go down as well.

MWC before the P5 raided their coaches with winning records?

Fresno State
San Diego State
Colorado State
Boise State
Hawaii (head coach was taken by SMU)
UNR
Utah State
Air Force

Only Air Force and Boise State stayed fairly the same since Air Force's head coach was not poached.

AAC before the P5 raids?
Houston
UCF
Memphis
Temple
East Carolina
Navy

It will be this next season to see how they do. We already have seen how the rumors about Tom Herman effected the players where they lose a lot of games. UCF just was not the same after Bortles graduated. East Carolina's wheels came off. Navy lost games last year that they should not have. Memphis stayed the same from the year before. Temple, we will not know for sure until this year. If they are middle of the pack teams, and no clear front winners? AAC could become the net MWC, and will go back to the same levels.

MWC is on the rise right now with New Mexico, Wyoming and Air Force getting stronger while UNR, San Diego State and the resurging Hawaii teams are strong on the west.

(05-21-2017 07:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 08:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  OP here. I'm one of the few AAC posters who doesn't believe there will ever be a P6, and I think it's an embarrassing marketing ploy.

Are you and I seriously that alone on those two points? They are correct and merely common sense/obvious (especially #1) so would expect virtually all AAC fans to recognize them even though none of us like those facts.

You are basically saying the great bulk of AAC fans are delusional.

I am with BB777, if it walks, quacks and swims like a duck, there's a good chance it is a duck not a swan.

I think - over time - the American and the Mountain West will be ahead of the rest of the G5 both financially and on the field/court.

(05-21-2017 07:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 08:26 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  OP here. I'm one of the few AAC posters who doesn't believe there will ever be a P6, and I think it's an embarrassing marketing ploy.

Are you and I seriously that alone on those two points? They are correct and merely common sense/obvious (especially #1) so would expect virtually all AAC fans to recognize them even though none of us like those facts.

You are basically saying the great bulk of AAC fans are delusional.

To be fair there is a huge gulf between liking the "P6 marketing strategy" and believing the AAC will actually achieve P6 status. I think most AAC fans believe the former and not the later as the two concepts are not one and the same. If you look at the "pillars" of the "P6 Strategic Plan"---there is not a single suggestion that leaves the league worse off. Nothing wrong with a good marketing plan and a strategy to improve the league.

(05-20-2017 07:43 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 07:36 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:40 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:34 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

So the Sun will give up a P12 vs ACC team, the Liberty ups a B12 vs SEC or Gator gives up SEC vs B10/ACC for an AAC team

Doubt the realism if you want but something like this is what the AAC/G5 need for recruiting.

Not having your champ guaranteed to a mid or upper tier bowl but just a shared CFP slot reeks of buster. It doesn't matter if each G5 conference has 5,6,7 overall bowls if its the small time pre-christmas stuff.

Friendly reminder, I am a P5 fan and ACC fan. I don't think any P5 fans really are worried about helping the G5 recruit.

The tide of progress is eventually going to build better G5 programs.

You'll have what you have in men's basketball eventually where every couple of years the G5 has a team finish in the Top 4.

The bowl series I'm proposing is for the purposes of keeping up with the evolution.

On what basis do you believe that "progress" is going to build better G5 programs? I see no trend where the G5 conferences are getting stronger at the expense of P5 conferences. If anything, I would guess that the opposite is true. Now, that doesn't mean that some individual teams might not get better, at least in some years. But if they do, it isn't because of some underlying trend that favors the G5.

Since 1998, the start of the BCS era, only one team currently in a G5 conference has finished in the Top 4. One. Cincinnati in 2009. And now it's going to become commonplace? What's going to make that happen? Are G5 conferences closing the resource gap with the P5 in ways that haven't yet been made public?

I understand why you want the G5 to get better. I just don't see why bowls should believe it will actually happen.

It's all about recruiting, I think non p5 fan bases are clearly seeing what's going on about being left behind and are getting much more interested as a result, so give it time...

FYI--Here is what Sunbelt commissioner Karl Benson had to say regarding Aresco's "P6 campaign". The comments are part of Benson's answer to his final question of the interview regarding a G5 playoff. The last question begins at about the 16:30 mark of the following interview linked below. lol...He was kinda struggling to find a polite way to say he doesnt like it....



https://soundcloud.com/953theticket/sun-...bcommish-1