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The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
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HHOOTter Offline
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Post: #1
The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
I just wanted 2 post this 2 all the AAC fans & supporters
regardin the Plight & Struggles that Univ of Tulsa
has to endure to compete in the AAC

Univ of Tulsa is located in a regional “Hot” bed of college F-ball Addicts
But being a private school,
it struggles @ reaching & competing @
$$$$, publicity/support, & attendance levels
as compared to 3 P’s schools (Blow U, Okie Dokie St, & Hawgwarts)
which are all located less than 3 hrs away from the Tulsa area.

The Tulsa TV/Media market is the main television market
for all 4 school’s in the NE/OK, NW/ARK. SW/MO, SE/KS Area
& so, the media/PR/attention is primarily given to those three P5 schools
because of their large fan base, alumni, & conference supporters.

So the reality is that in the city of Tulsa itself
TU is a distant 4th in terms of fan base, alumni influence, & interest
as compared to those other 3 P5 school’s

So...., sadly Univ of Tulsa has to look @ creative ways
to continue keeping the revenue stream flowing
Hence this article...........

This TW World Article 5/19/17
by Kelly Hines
TU gets big bucks for Power 5 games,
struggles to get teams to Chapman Stadium

Looking at the schedules for upcoming seasons of University of Tulsa football, some heavyhitters are on the horizon.

The next six years feature nonconference games against Oklahoma State, Texas, Arkansas, Michigan State, Ohio State and Ole Miss — opponents from the premier Southeastern, Big Ten and Big 12 conferences.

Although the Hurricane already was working to play a Power 5 team on an annual basis, the American Athletic Conference recently encouraged its members to upgrade their schedules in an attempt to bolster its Power 6 argument.

“Our schedules need to match that,” TU athletic director Derrick Gragg said. “We wanted to upgrade on our end. Obviously there’s an economic component to it as well. Playing those teams and being very competitive and winning some of those games is very important.”

Coming off a successful 10-win season in Philip Montgomery’s second year, TU continues to face difficulty in persuading teams to visit H.A. Chapman Stadium, where the Hurricane went undefeated in 2016.
“It’s not a secret that we have a very good football program,” Gragg said. “Ten wins and everybody saw what we did in the bowl game (a 55-10 win against Central Michigan). It’s hard to get on the phone with opposing programs now and get them to agree to come here.”

In-state opponents are seemingly the only teams willing to play at TU as part of a two-for-one deal. While OSU athletic director Mike Holder has proposed annual series in football and men’s basketball, Gragg does not appear ready to sign up for that.

“I don’t think you ever want to lock yourself into anything indefinitely because it’s hard to predict what’s going to happen down the road,” he said. “Obviously OSU and OU are very attractive opponents for us especially if we can get them to come here, but you also want to be responsive to the fans and what they want, too. Sometimes they want to see different opponents.”

For the 2017 opener in Stillwater, the Hurricane concludes a three-game contract with the Cowboys. An additional three-year contract accounts for games at TU in 2019 and at OSU in 2020 and 2021, and the schools also will renew a home-and-home basketball series that begins at Gallagher-Iba on Dec. 19 and returns to the Reynolds Center the following year.

Arkansas, where Gragg spent six years as an athletic-department administrator, would be an obvious choice for a two-for-one arrangement if not for the Razorbacks’ unwillingness to seal the deal. The Hurricane will play in 2018 at Arkansas, which hasn’t visited Tulsa since 1952 and has been the home team for the past 42 meetings.
“We were really close to doing a two-for-one deal with them, but the person who was very integral with helping me with that on their end left the (Arkansas) department right at the end of negotiations,” Gragg said. “ … It went back to them just wanting to do a guarantee game.”

The going rate for guarantee games is more than $1 million. The Hurricane received $1.03 million for last year’s game at Ohio State, won 48-3 by the Buckeyes, and will get a reported $1.1 million from Texas in 2018, $1.2 million from Michigan State in 2019 and $1.45 million from Ole Miss in 2022.

That kind of money significantly helps the athletic department during a university-wide financial time of need. TU still relies on private funding for its facility projects, including a renovation of the football locker room after the 2017 season in the existing space in the Case Athletic Complex.

On the flip side, the Hurricane’s home schedule suffers when big-name teams don’t come to town. Last year’s lackluster nonconference lineup played a role in TU finishing last in the American in attendance, averaging 18,901 fans at the 30,000-seat Chapman Stadium.

Gragg said the revamped ticket office plans to become increasingly aggressive in the coming months to fill more seats in the fall, when the Hurricane can cash in on the resurgence of the program along with an appealing league schedule that brings contenders Navy, Houston, Memphis and Temple to TU.

“Your best marketing piece is the production of the program,” Gragg said. “Obviously coming off a 10-win season helps a lot. And our coach, everyone really likes coach Montgomery — the way he’s done things, the way he’s turned the program around. His personality fits very well here in the community. We need to capitalize on those things.”
05-19-2017 09:36 AM
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Hurricane Drummer Offline
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Post: #2
RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
I just read this and was gonna post it on our forum just because it's been discussed often. We're not in the greatest situation scheduling wise.
05-19-2017 09:41 AM
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Tigeer Offline
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
Most of us in the AAC are on a similar boat.
05-19-2017 10:04 AM
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shere khan Offline
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
Todge is back
05-19-2017 10:06 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #5
RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-19-2017 10:06 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Todge is back

Sock puppet.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2017 11:04 AM by Attackcoog.)
05-19-2017 11:04 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-19-2017 11:04 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:06 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Todge is back

Sock puppet.

Hooter is Todge? Hahahaha....why not just post that article under his own name? Everyone knows Tulsa has a hard time getting support in Oklahoma and ...everywhere. I was reading the article waiting for something new.
05-20-2017 11:42 AM
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cotton1991 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
Tulsa does more with less better than anybody in this conference.
05-20-2017 01:05 PM
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HHOOTter Offline
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-20-2017 01:05 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  Tulsa does more with less better than anybody in this conference.

In terms of management of facilities, athlete's. & administration,
U R Exactly Right!

In terms of marketing, PR, & advertising
A Loooong History of Neglect.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2017 01:33 PM by HHOOTter.)
05-20-2017 01:32 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
Dem Coogs
05-20-2017 01:35 PM
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BigHouston Offline
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
Tortilla techs
05-20-2017 03:36 PM
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TU4ever Offline
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-20-2017 11:42 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 11:04 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 10:06 AM)shere khan Wrote:  Todge is back

Sock puppet.

Hooter is Todge? Hahahaha....why not just post that article under his own name? Everyone knows Tulsa has a hard time getting support in Oklahoma and ...everywhere. I was reading the article waiting for something new.

Hhooter is a long time poster on TU boards, his post wil occassionally give you headaches reading but they're solid and his view of a school he loves.

Arkansas gets almost no play here now, in the past (partucularly before the internet) they were a big deal. Now despite a big alum base they get about the same coverage in town as Tulsa. Oklahoma and Oklahoma St. suck up the coverage though, especially since Gundy (I'm a man!) became coach at Ok St.

The problem is we can't get big schools to come to HA Chapman because it holds 28,500 and that limits any economic benifit. Oklahoma is a good recruiting hotbed, but not enough over all numbers like houston or dallas to pull in teams on that alone. Essentially that crap AD now at UNC threw our program under the bus to help improve his standing and land that big time job he wanted. After Kragthorpe and durring Graham.the plan was always 34,000 seats, plus luxury/suites set up. Instead we got 27,000 plus suites.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2017 07:59 PM by TU4ever.)
05-21-2017 07:56 PM
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Post: #12
RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-19-2017 09:36 AM)HHOOTter Wrote:  I just wanted 2 post this 2 all the AAC fans & supporters
regardin the Plight & Struggles that Univ of Tulsa
has to endure to compete in the AAC

Univ of Tulsa is located in a regional “Hot” bed of college F-ball Addicts
But being a private school,
it struggles @ reaching & competing @
$$$$, publicity/support, & attendance levels
as compared to 3 P’s schools (Blow U, Okie Dokie St, & Hawgwarts)
which are all located less than 3 hrs away from the Tulsa area.

The Tulsa TV/Media market is the main television market
for all 4 school’s in the NE/OK, NW/ARK. SW/MO, SE/KS Area
& so, the media/PR/attention is primarily given to those three P5 schools
because of their large fan base, alumni, & conference supporters.

So the reality is that in the city of Tulsa itself
TU is a distant 4th in terms of fan base, alumni influence, & interest
as compared to those other 3 P5 school’s

So...., sadly Univ of Tulsa has to look @ creative ways
to continue keeping the revenue stream flowing
Hence this article...........

This TW World Article 5/19/17
by Kelly Hines
TU gets big bucks for Power 5 games,
struggles to get teams to Chapman Stadium

Looking at the schedules for upcoming seasons of University of Tulsa football, some heavyhitters are on the horizon.

The next six years feature nonconference games against Oklahoma State, Texas, Arkansas, Michigan State, Ohio State and Ole Miss — opponents from the premier Southeastern, Big Ten and Big 12 conferences.

Although the Hurricane already was working to play a Power 5 team on an annual basis, the American Athletic Conference recently encouraged its members to upgrade their schedules in an attempt to bolster its Power 6 argument.

“Our schedules need to match that,” TU athletic director Derrick Gragg said. “We wanted to upgrade on our end. Obviously there’s an economic component to it as well. Playing those teams and being very competitive and winning some of those games is very important.”

Coming off a successful 10-win season in Philip Montgomery’s second year, TU continues to face difficulty in persuading teams to visit H.A. Chapman Stadium, where the Hurricane went undefeated in 2016.
“It’s not a secret that we have a very good football program,” Gragg said. “Ten wins and everybody saw what we did in the bowl game (a 55-10 win against Central Michigan). It’s hard to get on the phone with opposing programs now and get them to agree to come here.”

In-state opponents are seemingly the only teams willing to play at TU as part of a two-for-one deal. While OSU athletic director Mike Holder has proposed annual series in football and men’s basketball, Gragg does not appear ready to sign up for that.

“I don’t think you ever want to lock yourself into anything indefinitely because it’s hard to predict what’s going to happen down the road,” he said. “Obviously OSU and OU are very attractive opponents for us especially if we can get them to come here, but you also want to be responsive to the fans and what they want, too. Sometimes they want to see different opponents.”


For the 2017 opener in Stillwater, the Hurricane concludes a three-game contract with the Cowboys. An additional three-year contract accounts for games at TU in 2019 and at OSU in 2020 and 2021, and the schools also will renew a home-and-home basketball series that begins at Gallagher-Iba on Dec. 19 and returns to the Reynolds Center the following year.

Arkansas, where Gragg spent six years as an athletic-department administrator, would be an obvious choice for a two-for-one arrangement if not for the Razorbacks’ unwillingness to seal the deal. The Hurricane will play in 2018 at Arkansas, which hasn’t visited Tulsa since 1952 and has been the home team for the past 42 meetings.
“We were really close to doing a two-for-one deal with them, but the person who was very integral with helping me with that on their end left the (Arkansas) department right at the end of negotiations,” Gragg said. “ … It went back to them just wanting to do a guarantee game.”

The going rate for guarantee games is more than $1 million. The Hurricane received $1.03 million for last year’s game at Ohio State, won 48-3 by the Buckeyes, and will get a reported $1.1 million from Texas in 2018, $1.2 million from Michigan State in 2019 and $1.45 million from Ole Miss in 2022.

That kind of money significantly helps the athletic department during a university-wide financial time of need. TU still relies on private funding for its facility projects, including a renovation of the football locker room after the 2017 season in the existing space in the Case Athletic Complex.

On the flip side, the Hurricane’s home schedule suffers when big-name teams don’t come to town. Last year’s lackluster nonconference lineup played a role in TU finishing last in the American in attendance, averaging 18,901 fans at the 30,000-seat Chapman Stadium.

Gragg said the revamped ticket office plans to become increasingly aggressive in the coming months to fill more seats in the fall, when the Hurricane can cash in on the resurgence of the program along with an appealing league schedule that brings contenders Navy, Houston, Memphis and Temple to TU.

“Your best marketing piece is the production of the program,” Gragg said. “Obviously coming off a 10-win season helps a lot. And our coach, everyone really likes coach Montgomery — the way he’s done things, the way he’s turned the program around. His personality fits very well here in the community. We need to capitalize on those things.”

If Oklahoma State is willing to do an annual series with Tulsa and *Tulsa* is the one rejecting it, then that doesn't make sense to me (especially if Tulsa seems to be having trouble getting even 2-for-1 deals with other P5 schools, much less any 1-for-1 series).
05-22-2017 10:07 AM
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TUCandoit Offline
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Post: #13
RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
I am not a fan of OSU but I don't get the deal with rejecting it either. We used to play every year and why not continue that...
05-22-2017 10:28 AM
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-22-2017 10:28 AM)TUCandoit Wrote:  I am not a fan of OSU but I don't get the deal with rejecting it either. We used to play every year and why not continue that...


Because we get paid more to do the one for none. By excepting such deals we can not afford to take two for ones or the schedule will become all away games some seasons ooc. Simple math, we get paid a couple hundred thousand for a OSU game, more for the Sooners, but double that or more for the Ohio St., Michigan St., etc games. Also until a 15-20 years ago we played them 1-1 or 3-2. Then we began to mix in the basketball contracts. Eddie Sutton didn't like that (OSU could lose on the regular) so they got seperated and the series got broken up and then unbalanced..Arkansas is a different story. The pigs played in Tulsa for several years, when Broyles became coach he put a stop to.that and we began playing there exclusively. With a strong dil in the program in 1990s it just never stopped.
05-22-2017 11:22 AM
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CoastalJuan Online
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-22-2017 10:28 AM)TUCandoit Wrote:  I am not a fan of OSU but I don't get the deal with rejecting it either. We used to play every year and why not continue that...

Yeah same here. If it's anything like our school, the fans don't get tired of the in-state/regional opponents.

You have 4 OOC slots every year. Schedule your 2 and 1's if you have to, and host some random G4 team in the off-years. At least you have a good schedule every now and then.

If they aren't offering you 2for1's because of your stadium size, then that is another problem all together.
05-22-2017 12:22 PM
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-21-2017 07:56 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  The problem is we can't get big schools to come to HA Chapman because it holds 28,500 and that limits any economic benifit.

I've heard the same reasoning for why UF/FSU won't visit UCF's 45k seat stadium, but it doesn't make sense. It's not like visiting team get a cut of the ticket sales. Why does OU care how many tickets Tulsa can sell for a Tulsa home game?

Your compensation in a 1-1 deal is the return game. You could say you don't want to give up a home game, or you want a stronger/weaker opponent, or a more popular opponent, or just say "no" and don't give any reason.

But the "your stadium is too small" thing doesn't make sense to me because it doesn't affect you at all.
05-22-2017 03:53 PM
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
I may be wrong but I believe the issue with Tulsa vs OKSt home & home is that it then keeps Tulsa from the revenue gained in a buy game with major power. Tulsa needs the revenue & if they are going to play majors away they prefer to get paid. Seems logical to me, at least financially. Am I off-base?
05-22-2017 05:35 PM
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-22-2017 10:07 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 09:36 AM)HHOOTter Wrote:  I just wanted 2 post this 2 all the AAC fans & supporters
regardin the Plight & Struggles that Univ of Tulsa
has to endure to compete in the AAC

Univ of Tulsa is located in a regional “Hot” bed of college F-ball Addicts
But being a private school,
it struggles @ reaching & competing @
$$$$, publicity/support, & attendance levels
as compared to 3 P’s schools (Blow U, Okie Dokie St, & Hawgwarts)
which are all located less than 3 hrs away from the Tulsa area.

The Tulsa TV/Media market is the main television market
for all 4 school’s in the NE/OK, NW/ARK. SW/MO, SE/KS Area
& so, the media/PR/attention is primarily given to those three P5 schools
because of their large fan base, alumni, & conference supporters.

So the reality is that in the city of Tulsa itself
TU is a distant 4th in terms of fan base, alumni influence, & interest
as compared to those other 3 P5 school’s

So...., sadly Univ of Tulsa has to look @ creative ways
to continue keeping the revenue stream flowing
Hence this article...........

This TW World Article 5/19/17
by Kelly Hines
TU gets big bucks for Power 5 games,
struggles to get teams to Chapman Stadium

Looking at the schedules for upcoming seasons of University of Tulsa football, some heavyhitters are on the horizon.

The next six years feature nonconference games against Oklahoma State, Texas, Arkansas, Michigan State, Ohio State and Ole Miss — opponents from the premier Southeastern, Big Ten and Big 12 conferences.

Although the Hurricane already was working to play a Power 5 team on an annual basis, the American Athletic Conference recently encouraged its members to upgrade their schedules in an attempt to bolster its Power 6 argument.

“Our schedules need to match that,” TU athletic director Derrick Gragg said. “We wanted to upgrade on our end. Obviously there’s an economic component to it as well. Playing those teams and being very competitive and winning some of those games is very important.”

Coming off a successful 10-win season in Philip Montgomery’s second year, TU continues to face difficulty in persuading teams to visit H.A. Chapman Stadium, where the Hurricane went undefeated in 2016.
“It’s not a secret that we have a very good football program,” Gragg said. “Ten wins and everybody saw what we did in the bowl game (a 55-10 win against Central Michigan). It’s hard to get on the phone with opposing programs now and get them to agree to come here.”

In-state opponents are seemingly the only teams willing to play at TU as part of a two-for-one deal. While OSU athletic director Mike Holder has proposed annual series in football and men’s basketball, Gragg does not appear ready to sign up for that.

“I don’t think you ever want to lock yourself into anything indefinitely because it’s hard to predict what’s going to happen down the road,” he said. “Obviously OSU and OU are very attractive opponents for us especially if we can get them to come here, but you also want to be responsive to the fans and what they want, too. Sometimes they want to see different opponents.”


For the 2017 opener in Stillwater, the Hurricane concludes a three-game contract with the Cowboys. An additional three-year contract accounts for games at TU in 2019 and at OSU in 2020 and 2021, and the schools also will renew a home-and-home basketball series that begins at Gallagher-Iba on Dec. 19 and returns to the Reynolds Center the following year.

Arkansas, where Gragg spent six years as an athletic-department administrator, would be an obvious choice for a two-for-one arrangement if not for the Razorbacks’ unwillingness to seal the deal. The Hurricane will play in 2018 at Arkansas, which hasn’t visited Tulsa since 1952 and has been the home team for the past 42 meetings.
“We were really close to doing a two-for-one deal with them, but the person who was very integral with helping me with that on their end left the (Arkansas) department right at the end of negotiations,” Gragg said. “ … It went back to them just wanting to do a guarantee game.”

The going rate for guarantee games is more than $1 million. The Hurricane received $1.03 million for last year’s game at Ohio State, won 48-3 by the Buckeyes, and will get a reported $1.1 million from Texas in 2018, $1.2 million from Michigan State in 2019 and $1.45 million from Ole Miss in 2022.

That kind of money significantly helps the athletic department during a university-wide financial time of need. TU still relies on private funding for its facility projects, including a renovation of the football locker room after the 2017 season in the existing space in the Case Athletic Complex.

On the flip side, the Hurricane’s home schedule suffers when big-name teams don’t come to town. Last year’s lackluster nonconference lineup played a role in TU finishing last in the American in attendance, averaging 18,901 fans at the 30,000-seat Chapman Stadium.

Gragg said the revamped ticket office plans to become increasingly aggressive in the coming months to fill more seats in the fall, when the Hurricane can cash in on the resurgence of the program along with an appealing league schedule that brings contenders Navy, Houston, Memphis and Temple to TU.

“Your best marketing piece is the production of the program,” Gragg said. “Obviously coming off a 10-win season helps a lot. And our coach, everyone really likes coach Montgomery — the way he’s done things, the way he’s turned the program around. His personality fits very well here in the community. We need to capitalize on those things.”

If Oklahoma State is willing to do an annual series with Tulsa and *Tulsa* is the one rejecting it, then that doesn't make sense to me (especially if Tulsa seems to be having trouble getting even 2-for-1 deals with other P5 schools, much less any 1-for-1 series).

The writer did a poor job. That annual series OSU wants is always a 2 for 1 deal. Tulsa would die for a 1-1 deal, but OSU and OU both insist on a 2 for 1 deal with Tulsa.
05-22-2017 07:43 PM
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-20-2017 01:32 PM)HHOOTterIt seemsto9737 Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 01:05 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  Tulsa does more with less better than anybody in this conference.

In terms of management of facilities, athlete's. & administration,
U R Exactly Right!

In terms of marketing, PR, & advertising
A Loooong History of Neglect.

It seems to me that TU does an excellent job of marketing and PR. They come up with some very innovative ideas. Certainly a lot better than SMU.
05-22-2017 07:51 PM
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RE: The P5 Conundrum 4 da' Univ of Tulsa
(05-22-2017 03:53 PM)MechaKnight Wrote:  
(05-21-2017 07:56 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  The problem is we can't get big schools to come to HA Chapman because it holds 28,500 and that limits any economic benifit.

I've heard the same reasoning for why UF/FSU won't visit UCF's 45k seat stadium, but it doesn't make sense. It's not like visiting team get a cut of the ticket sales. Why does OU care how many tickets Tulsa can sell for a Tulsa home game?

Your compensation in a 1-1 deal is the return game. You could say you don't want to give up a home game, or you want a stronger/weaker opponent, or a more popular opponent, or just say "no" and don't give any reason.

But the "your stadium is too small" thing doesn't make sense to me because it doesn't affect you at all.

One of the reasons for OU and OSU playing in Tulsa is to give their local fans....which are many, a chance to see their alma mater play without driving to Norman or Stillwater. OU home games are always sold out with season ticket sales and OSU ticket situation is not good.

But TU has a very small 27,000 seat stadium, so ticket prices for the OU and OSU games sky rocket and somewhat defeats the purpose of playing in Tulsa.
05-22-2017 08:03 PM
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